K, well I'll just give you a fellow "lol" on your post and we'll call it a day then.
I'll just say that in the modern MMO themepark Blade and Soul, I teleported and sat staring at a loading screen at least 10 times an hour. Usually much more.
Compared to BDO with no teleportation or loading screens, yeah, it's a bit more immersive.
I have no idea of how B&S plays, although just by descriptions I'd wager BDO is a more immersive experience. As it's a more worldly game in general.. I don't think fast travel would hurt that experience all that much TBH. Not that it needs it, it just simply makes life in a large world easier. Especially in regard to meeting up with friends/guildmates etc... If there's a battle here < and I'm there >... It can be frustrating trying to get to it before it's over. Hence why i prefer systems like SWG/Morrowind used. Fast travel systems that made sense.
I honestly don't know how the fast travel in SWG or Morrowind worked, but I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about modern MMOs where you teleport anywhere you want and often use lobbies to find groups for you.
This statement that had you lolling so much:
"We've been playing virtual lobbies/loading screens for so long, we've forgotten how cool it can be to play in a virtual world."
"forgotten" implies there was an experience in the past. I'm not talking about older games like pre-WoW.
Almost every game up to WoW with a virtual world was pretty immersive.
"Especially in regard to meeting up with friends/guildmates etc... If
there's a battle here < and I'm there >... It can be frustrating
trying to get to it before it's over."
I suppose it can be frustrating, but it's the only thing preventing a zerg guild from 100v1ing you if you attack any of their members anywhere.
It also allows for strategies like I mentioned such as drawing a guild away from a strategic point.
I have no idea of how B&S plays, although just by descriptions I'd wager BDO is a more immersive experience. As it's a more worldly game in general.. I don't think fast travel would hurt that experience all that much TBH. Not that it needs it, it just simply makes life in a large world easier. Especially in regard to meeting up with friends/guildmates etc... If there's a battle here < and I'm there >... It can be frustrating trying to get to it before it's over. Hence why i prefer systems like SWG/Morrowind used. Fast travel systems that made sense.
I honestly don't know how the fast travel in SWG or Morrowind worked, but I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about modern MMOs where you teleport anywhere you want and often use lobbies to find groups for you.
This statement that had you lolling so much:
"We've been playing virtual lobbies/loading screens for so long, we've forgotten how cool it can be to play in a virtual world."
"forgotten" implies there was an experience in the past. I'm not talking about older games like pre-WoW.
Almost every game up to WoW with a virtual world was pretty immersive.
"Especially in regard to meeting up with friends/guildmates etc... If
there's a battle here < and I'm there >... It can be frustrating
trying to get to it before it's over."
I suppose it can be frustrating, but it's the only thing preventing a zerg guild from 100v1ing you if you attack any of their members anywhere.
It also allows for strategies like I mentioned such as drawing a guild away from a strategic point.
Just to be clear...I didn't LOL your statements I lol'd you saying I was trolling.
How they handled it was a combination of immersive ways. With morrowind it was through boats, Striders (large larva looking beasts) and mage guild teleports. There were also bind and recall scrolls.
SWG handled it with Shuttleports, in major cities or player cities.. What makes these systems better is they only take you hub to hub. there's still a lot of travel in the general area you ported to required... Similar to ESO in a way...
I can agree that systems that allow you to go where ever you want (unless already explored/reached) are problematic and off putting.
Like I said BDO doesn't need them, it would just make certain agendas easier to accomplish. I can also see your point about zergs. Which would be problematic.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This trend of people becoming lazier and lazier is mind boggling. First you don't need to walk to dungeons you get instantly teleported now they want to teleport from town to town.
Might aswell play a lobby game. You won't have to waste time moving in the game's world.
You answer your own boggling.
"have to wast time moving".
Some want to play a game, Others want to "waste time moving in the game's world" (can be called watching a "simulator").
Play a lobby based game then.
MMORPG stands for Massively not let's teleport everywhere because I can't be arsed to spend 5 minutes to reach x.
Or you can play a game where you spend 5 minutes playing in the game world instead of "spending" 5 minutes to reach x for the sake of spending 5 minutes to reach x.
And why is it 5 minutes and not 3 hours? Or 1 day? Isn't 3 hours/1 day even more Massively? Where does one draw the line?
It is nothing about be "arsed or lazy" or a "pure breed" MMORPG player.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
This trend of people becoming lazier and lazier is mind boggling. First you don't need to walk to dungeons you get instantly teleported now they want to teleport from town to town.
Might aswell play a lobby game. You won't have to waste time moving in the game's world.
You answer your own boggling.
"have to wast time moving".
Some want to play a game, Others want to "waste time moving in the game's world" (can be called watching a "simulator").
Play a lobby based game then.
MMORPG stands for Massively not let's teleport everywhere because I can't be arsed to spend 5 minutes to reach x.
Or you can play a game where you spend 5 minutes playing in the game world instead of "spending" 5 minutes to reach x for the sake of spending 5 minutes to reach x.
And why is it 5 minutes and not 3 hours? Or 1 day? Isn't 3 hours/1 day even more Massively? Where does one draw the line?
It is nothing about be "arsed or lazy" or a "pure breed" MMORPG player.
There are incentives to move around the world instead of fast travelling.
You level your breath which increases your stamina so you can sprint/fight longer, you level your horses and training skill, you can stumble upon a quest you didn't do because the npc roams around the map, hell you could stumble upon a violent/etc mob that you might want to kill since they have a higher drop rate of goodies.
When you fast travel you are pretty much eliminating all the hard work the graphic designers took to make that world.
Also this next part is not for you.
World of Warcraft did indeed have fast travelling but it wasn't instantaneous! That is a big difference. I don't know what it does have now as I played until Burning Crusade, but griffon riding from place to place wasn't quick as one might wanted.
So for me instant teleportation leads to laziness despite your willingness to admit it. I can admit it. When I play a game that has instant transition it's HARD to not get tempted to use it, because it's there available for you.
One of the reason I never finished Skyrim and ESO was because of that. You end up taking some quest, teleport finish the quest, teleport back to town. So much for open world heh.....
Fast travel in MMORPGs is a lot like having cheat codes. At first it seems really fun to have them, but quickly you find out it destroys the actual game play turning it into a foul experience.
What players want is not always what is good for either them or the game world, even if they are too self centered or myopic to see it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Fast travel in MMORPGs is a lot like having cheat codes. At first it seems really fun to have them, but quickly you find out it destroys the actual game play turning it into a foul experience.
What players want is not always what is good for either them or the game world, even if they are too self centered or myopic to see it.
Yeah, another one of the downside is making the game world feels less populated than it should be (for instance is GW2).
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
Surely with BDO being a PvP game, fast travel would reduce the opportunity to fight and mug players, which defeats the object. If you are in a PvP game then the opportunity to PvP should be highest.
Fast travel in MMORPGs is a lot like having cheat codes. At first it seems really fun to have them, but quickly you find out it destroys the actual game play turning it into a foul experience.
say what?
D3 is fun without traveling at all. Marvel Heroes is fun with no traveling. There does not need to be actual travel gameplay.
Surely with BDO being a PvP game, fast travel would reduce the opportunity to fight and mug players, which defeats the object. If you are in a PvP game then the opportunity to PvP should be highest.
Planetside 2 is a pvp ONLY game, and it works fine with fast travel.
Fast travel in MMORPGs is a lot like having cheat codes. At first it seems really fun to have them, but quickly you find out it destroys the actual game play turning it into a foul experience.
What players want is not always what is good for either them or the game world, even if they are too self centered or myopic to see it.
Yeah, another one of the downside is making the game world feels less populated than it should be (for instance is GW2).
and? Just put in some more NPCs. AC Syndicate feels a lot more populated than many MMORPGs just by the use of NPCs.
Fast travel in MMORPGs is a lot like having cheat codes. At first it seems really fun to have them, but quickly you find out it destroys the actual game play turning it into a foul experience.
say what?
D3 is fun without traveling at all. Marvel Heroes is fun with no traveling. There does not need to be actual travel gameplay.
Why do you continually go off topic? We're talking MMORPGs here, not "games"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Surely with BDO being a PvP game, fast travel would reduce the opportunity to fight and mug players, which defeats the object. If you are in a PvP game then the opportunity to PvP should be highest.
Planetside 2 is a pvp ONLY game, and it works fine with fast travel.
I would say it works "differently" with fast travel.
There is a big difference in pvp games to taking over an area knowing that your enemy can't get to you immediately, setting ambushes for them as they head to you as opposed to knowing that your enemy can drop in and intercede at a moment's notice.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Fast travel in MMORPGs is a lot like having cheat codes. At first it seems really fun to have them, but quickly you find out it destroys the actual game play turning it into a foul experience.
say what?
D3 is fun without traveling at all. Marvel Heroes is fun with no traveling. There does not need to be actual travel gameplay.
Why do you continually go off topic? We're talking MMORPGs here, not "games"
There is a difference, and so are their designs.
Close enough. It is not like MMOs are staying in the classical design anymore. In fact, there is no more AAA classical mmorpg development in the west, so it is moot anyway.
This site is really about the broadened MMOs now. Just look at their game list.
Fast travel in MMORPGs is a lot like having cheat codes. At first it seems really fun to have them, but quickly you find out it destroys the actual game play turning it into a foul experience.
What players want is not always what is good for either them or the game world, even if they are too self centered or myopic to see it.
So was I myopic when the amount of time I needed to waste traveling in multiple games turned me off to those games? If there is no possiblity of something unexpected happenning during the travel, I would rather not waste my time traveling.
Perhaps, not sure what MMORPGS you are referring to.
If you are talking about EVE, DAOC, or even early WOW and don't understand the importance of travel mechanics were/are to the overall gameplay then yes, the label would fit.
Whether or not you enjoyed them has no bearing on their importance in the overall success of the design.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I see posts about "hand holding" for quests here. Then see "grind" all the time about MMOs. Now I see a bunch of whiners who hate no fast travel. You can't have it both ways. Either we make it too easy for you or too hard/boring/realistic. Give it a rest.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Fast travel in MMORPGs is a lot like having cheat codes. At first it seems really fun to have them, but quickly you find out it destroys the actual game play turning it into a foul experience.
say what?
D3 is fun without traveling at all. Marvel Heroes is fun with no traveling. There does not need to be actual travel gameplay.
Why do you continually go off topic? We're talking MMORPGs here, not "games"
There is a difference, and so are their designs.
Close enough. It is not like MMOs are staying in the classical design anymore. In fact, there is no more AAA classical mmorpg development in the west, so it is moot anyway.
This site is really about the broadened MMOs now. Just look at their game list.
Try to pay attention and actually read the posts and you won't end up making yourself look like this. Or continue on and provide some mild amusement. Either way...
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I see posts about "hand holding" for quests here. Then see "grind" all the time about MMOs. Now I see a bunch of whiners who hate no fast travel. You can't have it both ways. Either we make it too easy for you or too hard/boring/realistic. Give it a rest.
I am starting to pay attention to more of your posts. I like the honesty and you make me laugh at the same time.
Try to pay attention and actually read the posts and you won't end up making yourself look like this. Or continue on and provide some mild amusement. Either way...
Look like the minority who does not tout the party line?
Of course i would continue, because I am having fun. I also notice you did not dispute a thing that I am saying. So I assume you agree, and needs to resort to personal attacks.
Fast travel in MMORPGs is a lot like having cheat codes. At first it seems really fun to have them, but quickly you find out it destroys the actual game play turning it into a foul experience.
What players want is not always what is good for either them or the game world, even if they are too self centered or myopic to see it.
This is just silly, this completely depends on the design of the game, some worlds are simply too big to not have forms of fast travel, as you would never get anything done without it. Other games have too much back tracking to not have fast travel. Even with fast travel, in SWG it could take 40+ minutes to get a whole group together simply because everyone was coming from different planets. Without fast travel that time would have been doubled.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Fast travel in MMORPGs is a lot like having cheat codes. At first it seems really fun to have them, but quickly you find out it destroys the actual game play turning it into a foul experience.
What players want is not always what is good for either them or the game world, even if they are too self centered or myopic to see it.
This is just silly, this completely depends on the design of the game, some worlds are simply too big to not have forms of fast travel, as you would never get anything done without it. Other games have too much back tracking to not have fast travel. Even with fast travel, in SWG it could take 40+ minutes to get a whole group together simply because everyone was coming from different planets. Without fast travel that time would have been doubled.
Well I agree that certain games having fast travel is a must.
Like you mentioned, in SWG it makes sense because it's in space and the distances seem to be quite long. In BDO however we are talking 5-10 min if you use a mount.
You won't be going back and forth all the time unless you are doing some trade runs. I for example am doing all quests I can find, and only 1 place so far made me go back and forth multiple times. The thing however is that this place was a minute away from the camp! It wasn't on the other side of the world.
I assume most people that want fast travel want quick access to their storage or marketplace to get rid of the excess weight.
Comments
This statement that had you lolling so much:
"We've been playing virtual lobbies/loading screens for so long, we've forgotten how cool it can be to play in a virtual world."
"forgotten" implies there was an experience in the past. I'm not talking about older games like pre-WoW.
Almost every game up to WoW with a virtual world was pretty immersive.
"Especially in regard to meeting up with friends/guildmates etc... If there's a battle here < and I'm there >... It can be frustrating trying to get to it before it's over."
I suppose it can be frustrating, but it's the only thing preventing a zerg guild from 100v1ing you if you attack any of their members anywhere.
It also allows for strategies like I mentioned such as drawing a guild away from a strategic point.
How they handled it was a combination of immersive ways. With morrowind it was through boats, Striders (large larva looking beasts) and mage guild teleports. There were also bind and recall scrolls.
SWG handled it with Shuttleports, in major cities or player cities.. What makes these systems better is they only take you hub to hub. there's still a lot of travel in the general area you ported to required... Similar to ESO in a way...
I can agree that systems that allow you to go where ever you want (unless already explored/reached) are problematic and off putting.
Like I said BDO doesn't need them, it would just make certain agendas easier to accomplish. I can also see your point about zergs. Which would be problematic.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And why is it 5 minutes and not 3 hours? Or 1 day?
Isn't 3 hours/1 day even more Massively?
Where does one draw the line?
It is nothing about be "arsed or lazy" or a "pure breed" MMORPG player.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
In this day & age .. waiting 5-10 min for my toon to walk .. really?
You level your breath which increases your stamina so you can sprint/fight longer, you level your horses and training skill, you can stumble upon a quest you didn't do because the npc roams around the map, hell you could stumble upon a violent/etc mob that you might want to kill since they have a higher drop rate of goodies.
When you fast travel you are pretty much eliminating all the hard work the graphic designers took to make that world.
Also this next part is not for you.
World of Warcraft did indeed have fast travelling but it wasn't instantaneous! That is a big difference. I don't know what it does have now as I played until Burning Crusade, but griffon riding from place to place wasn't quick as one might wanted.
So for me instant teleportation leads to laziness despite your willingness to admit it. I can admit it. When I play a game that has instant transition it's HARD to not get tempted to use it, because it's there available for you.
One of the reason I never finished Skyrim and ESO was because of that. You end up taking some quest, teleport finish the quest, teleport back to town. So much for open world heh.....
What players want is not always what is good for either them or the game world, even if they are too self centered or myopic to see it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
There is a difference, and so are their designs.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is a big difference in pvp games to taking over an area knowing that your enemy can't get to you immediately, setting ambushes for them as they head to you as opposed to knowing that your enemy can drop in and intercede at a moment's notice.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This site is really about the broadened MMOs now. Just look at their game list.
If you are talking about EVE, DAOC, or even early WOW and don't understand the importance of travel mechanics were/are to the overall gameplay then yes, the label would fit.
Whether or not you enjoyed them has no bearing on their importance in the overall success of the design.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Cheers..
Of course i would continue, because I am having fun. I also notice you did not dispute a thing that I am saying. So I assume you agree, and needs to resort to personal attacks.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Like you mentioned, in SWG it makes sense because it's in space and the distances seem to be quite long. In BDO however we are talking 5-10 min if you use a mount.
You won't be going back and forth all the time unless you are doing some trade runs. I for example am doing all quests I can find, and only 1 place so far made me go back and forth multiple times. The thing however is that this place was a minute away from the camp! It wasn't on the other side of the world.
I assume most people that want fast travel want quick access to their storage or marketplace to get rid of the excess weight.