Permaban is not much good when your appeal is: "Unban me and I'll keep paying."
These companies are loathe to ever ban someone that pays them.
I'm not sure an online game in history have had bans that weren't reviewable, mostly because that would be moronic. Mistakes can and do happen.
Is their review process currently too lenient? Yes, obviously. The guy got unbanned and he is actually a hacker.
Marvel has their no-contest policy in Marvel Heroes and NCSoft has no-contest policy in Aion, just 2 thing are at the top of my head right now.
Uh, ok, so that's 2.
My point is people are trying to make it seem like the possibility of reversing bans is a Daum-only thing. It is, in fact, the norm, and it's a desirable thing.
Permaban is not much good when your appeal is: "Unban me and I'll keep paying."
These companies are loathe to ever ban someone that pays them.
I'm not sure an online game in history have had bans that weren't reviewable, mostly because that would be moronic. Mistakes can and do happen.
Is their review process currently too lenient? Yes, obviously. The guy got unbanned and he is actually a hacker.
Marvel has their no-contest policy in Marvel Heroes and NCSoft has no-contest policy in Aion, just 2 thing are at the top of my head right now.
Uh, ok, so that's 2.
My point is people are trying to make it seem like the possibility of reversing bans is a Daum-only thing. It is, in fact, the norm, and it's a desirable thing.
Yea in my mind "no contest" should never be an option, which is the only reason I wrote that message in the first place. Sorry if my lines got crossed or anything.
If there is video proof of you hacking, there should be no appeal. This guy had tons of proof against him and he got unbanned only to hack again. Lol.
If this is in response to me...I mean that of course should be no contest lol...but I mean...like the first course of action before anything else considered is a no-contest policy.
If there is video proof of you hacking, there should be no appeal. This guy had tons of proof against him and he got unbanned only to hack again. Lol.
People can spoof video. More importantly, though, GMs can make mistakes and just simply ban the wrong guy for something as simple as a typo.
Clearly Daum has a problem with their customer service department. It's probably just understaffed, but regardless they have a track record of making mistakes.
THIS THREAD ALONE is proof they make mistakes.
Personally I would be very uncomfortable putting a lot into the game if I knew all my hard work was at the mercy of their GMs with no possible recourse.
Permaban is not much good when your appeal is: "Unban me and I'll keep paying."
These companies are loathe to ever ban someone that pays them.
I'm not sure an online game in history have had bans that weren't reviewable, mostly because that would be moronic. Mistakes can and do happen.
Is their review process currently too lenient? Yes, obviously. The guy got unbanned and he is actually a hacker.
Lineage 1 - If you were "Perma-banned" it was permanent, they wouldn't even entertain an appeal.
Had all 3 of my accounts permanently banned for the crime of..... dropping scrolls all around town telling people I was leaving the game and going to DAOC.
I did try to return once, but all 3 accounts were permanently locked with no appeal.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Permaban is not much good when your appeal is: "Unban me and I'll keep paying."
These companies are loathe to ever ban someone that pays them.
I'm not sure an online game in history have had bans that weren't reviewable, mostly because that would be moronic. Mistakes can and do happen.
Is their review process currently too lenient? Yes, obviously. The guy got unbanned and he is actually a hacker.
Lineage 1 - If you were "Perma-banned" it was permanent, they wouldn't even entertain an appeal.
There's a useful difference between "ban"/"Permaban" or "temp-ban"/"suspension". Each group means the same thing.
Any "ban" is meant to be permanent unless given an end date.
If you're saying "permaban" only means bans that can never be reviewed, then yes, Daum does not give out permabans, thankfully. Neither do the vast majority of games because that would be moronic.
Most people talking about this assumed that players were given temporary bans. That's not what happened.
Oh wait, to you a temporary ban means any ban that can be reviewed.
Ok, these players were given "bans meant to be permanent with no enddate, unless overturned after an appeal."
Best way to tell a company how you feel about them is to no longer support that company. Hit them where it hurts... The pocket book. If you bitch about something and still support it/them then that's on you.
Permaban is not much good when your appeal is: "Unban me and I'll keep paying."
These companies are loathe to ever ban someone that pays them.
I'm not sure an online game in history have had bans that weren't reviewable, mostly because that would be moronic. Mistakes can and do happen.
Is their review process currently too lenient? Yes, obviously. The guy got unbanned and he is actually a hacker.
Lineage 1 - If you were "Perma-banned" it was permanent, they wouldn't even entertain an appeal.
Had all 3 of my accounts permanently banned for the crime of..... dropping scrolls all around town telling people I was leaving the game and going to DAOC.
I did try to return once, but all 3 accounts were permanently locked with no appeal.
So I started a few new ones.
What exactly was the offense in that case? Littering? Seems an awful silly reason to get "perma-banned" hence the issue with games not having an appeal process.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If there is video proof of you hacking, there should be no appeal. This guy had tons of proof against him and he got unbanned only to hack again. Lol.
People can spoof video. More importantly, though, GMs can make mistakes and just simply ban the wrong guy for something as simple as a typo.
Clearly Daum has a problem with their customer service department. It's probably just understaffed, but regardless they have a track record of making mistakes.
THIS THREAD ALONE is proof they make mistakes.
Personally I would be very uncomfortable putting a lot into the game if I knew all my hard work was at the mercy of their GMs with no possible recourse.
Has anyone bothered to report this guy's statements to Daum?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I wonder how many 'permabans' have been handed out that have been removed on appeal? It's actually an pretty old publishing company tactic, you say you have "zero tolerance", "we hand out permabans", but then just roll over and remove the bans on appeal (almost) every time.
I suppose it's hard to tell with Daum being so secretive about their bannings.
If there is video proof of you hacking, there should be no appeal. This guy had tons of proof against him and he got unbanned only to hack again. Lol.
People can spoof video. More importantly, though, GMs can make mistakes and just simply ban the wrong guy for something as simple as a typo.
Clearly Daum has a problem with their customer service department. It's probably just understaffed, but regardless they have a track record of making mistakes.
THIS THREAD ALONE is proof they make mistakes.
Personally I would be very uncomfortable putting a lot into the game if I knew all my hard work was at the mercy of their GMs with no possible recourse.
Has anyone bothered to report this guy's statements to Daum?
I imagine they're very aware. All the threads re: him have been locked, on reddit too. They have CMs there.
I heard this from a post on reddit so take from it what you will, but they said they saw that this guy had used an unbanning service. They saw a comment by him about how it worked on some hacking forum.
I know everyone has the impression that all you have to do is ask to be unbanned but I really doubt it's that simple.
I believe he did post the correspondence that got him unbanned but I believe the thread on reddit was deleted. I'd be interested to take a look at it for sure.
If there is video proof of you hacking, there should be no appeal. This guy had tons of proof against him and he got unbanned only to hack again. Lol.
People can spoof video. More importantly, though, GMs can make mistakes and just simply ban the wrong guy for something as simple as a typo.
Clearly Daum has a problem with their customer service department. It's probably just understaffed, but regardless they have a track record of making mistakes.
THIS THREAD ALONE is proof they make mistakes.
Personally I would be very uncomfortable putting a lot into the game if I knew all my hard work was at the mercy of their GMs with no possible recourse.
Has anyone bothered to report this guy's statements to Daum?
I imagine they're very aware. All the threads re: him have been locked, on reddit too. They have CMs there.
I heard this from a post on reddit so take from it what you will, but they said they saw that this guy had used an unbanning service. They saw a comment by him about how it worked on some hacking forum.
I know everyone has the impression that all you have to do is ask to be unbanned but I really doubt it's that simple.
I believe he did post the correspondence that got him unbanned but I believe the thread on reddit was deleted. I'd be interested to take a look at it for sure.
An unbanning service? What, do they like, hire Shakespear's great great great great grandson to type a passionate dramatic plea to customer service that will surely sway the hearts of any person beyond the realms of the keyboard to decide that thou art truly worthy of redemption or something?
An unbanning service? What, do they like, hire Shakespear's great great great great grandson to type a passionate dramatic plea to customer service that will surely sway the hearts of any person beyond the realms of the keyboard to decide that thou art truly worthy of redemption or something?
.....that's actually what it is, isn't it?
It probably is - I always gave caught botters the chance to leave with the rest of their dignity or contest my judgement. Obviously no one ever picks dignity..
"It wasn't me it was my little sister who played... who doesn't speak English.. and she also wasn't surprised when you teleported her to another town and >walked< back to her position for an hour." "I didn't bot. I used an intelligence not from this world." "Your 13 screenshots of me teleporting away and being recalled to attack the bot test monster prove nothing. On a sidenote though my character looks like lovely peppermint ^^ "
Needless to say the public shaming was extremely popular on our forum.
"It wasn't me it was my little sister who played... who doesn't speak English.. and she also wasn't surprised when you teleported her to another town and >walked< back to her position for an hour." "I didn't bot. I used an intelligence not from this world." "Your 13 screenshots of me teleporting away and being recalled to attack the bot test monster prove nothing. On a sidenote though my character looks like lovely peppermint ^^ "
Needless to say the public shaming was extremely popular on our forum.
Lol and so it should be. As is, if you aren't a hacker, you are the victim. If we had more severe punishments for hacking, I am sure top guilds wouldn't encourage botting.
Currently there seems to be no way to stop hacking when it come to games. I know it makes people mad but it is a reality. Trying taking a different approach and learn to live with it. Whether hacking is in your face, ' look I'm hacking and you cant stop it ', or it is very low key and nobody ever notices. The fact is it is going on. Or you could quit gaming all together to make a statement. I doubt most of you will quit because you enjoy it so much. When I see hacking it upsets me too but I just learned to live with it.
Currently there seems to be no way to stop hacking when it come to games. I know it makes people mad but it is a reality. Trying taking a different approach and learn to live with it. Whether hacking is in your face, ' look I'm hacking and you cant stop it ', or it is very low key and nobody ever notices. The fact is it is going on. Or you could quit gaming all together to make a statement. I doubt most of you will quit because you enjoy it so much. When I see hacking it upsets me too but I just learned to live with it.
I think that's a healthy attitude, and it's possible to pull off as long as the hacking doesn't affect your gameplay (or at least not too much).
In BnS, the botting and hacking was literally not ignorable. MANY matches in PVP were against bots and hackers and that's supposed to be the shining point of that game. Chat was full of goldseller spam and bots were frequently seen in huge groups in the world.
In BDO, I've been playing for a few weeks and I've not seen a bot, hacker, or goldseller spam. Granted, I'm not high level yet, but so far it is easily ignorable since there's literally nothing to ignore in the first place.
I do think, however, that PA/Daum should make it a big priority to work on hack detection. If they can't and they really want to rely on this video process, then they at least need to hire a few more guys and give them more hours and be a bit more stringent on the review process for overturning bans.
So, yeah, nobody should expect a hack/bot free MMO, but at the same time we should expect the Devs to be doing as much as they can.
Couple of threads today from "hacker reporters" saying they reported multiple cheaters and those guys are still playing. Instantly locked so they float away to be forgotten. These threads are becoming more common now as players become aware of what Daum are doing.
Daum seem to be a typical lowlife publishing company saying one thing and doing something completely different.
Man, I remember when these companies used to have at least a little respect for their players .
Comments
Marvel has their no-contest policy in Marvel Heroes and NCSoft has no-contest policy in Aion, just 2 thing are at the top of my head right now.
My point is people are trying to make it seem like the possibility of reversing bans is a Daum-only thing. It is, in fact, the norm, and it's a desirable thing.
Yea in my mind "no contest" should never be an option, which is the only reason I wrote that message in the first place. Sorry if my lines got crossed or anything.
If this is in response to me...I mean that of course should be no contest lol...but I mean...like the first course of action before anything else considered is a no-contest policy.
Clearly Daum has a problem with their customer service department. It's probably just understaffed, but regardless they have a track record of making mistakes.
THIS THREAD ALONE is proof they make mistakes.
Personally I would be very uncomfortable putting a lot into the game if I knew all my hard work was at the mercy of their GMs with no possible recourse.
Had all 3 of my accounts permanently banned for the crime of..... dropping scrolls all around town telling people I was leaving the game and going to DAOC.
I did try to return once, but all 3 accounts were permanently locked with no appeal.
So I started a few new ones.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Any "ban" is meant to be permanent unless given an end date.
If you're saying "permaban" only means bans that can never be reviewed, then yes, Daum does not give out permabans, thankfully. Neither do the vast majority of games because that would be moronic.
Most people talking about this assumed that players were given temporary bans. That's not what happened.
Oh wait, to you a temporary ban means any ban that can be reviewed.
Ok, these players were given "bans meant to be permanent with no enddate, unless overturned after an appeal."
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I suppose it's hard to tell with Daum being so secretive about their bannings.
I heard this from a post on reddit so take from it what you will, but they said they saw that this guy had used an unbanning service. They saw a comment by him about how it worked on some hacking forum.
I know everyone has the impression that all you have to do is ask to be unbanned but I really doubt it's that simple.
I believe he did post the correspondence that got him unbanned but I believe the thread on reddit was deleted. I'd be interested to take a look at it for sure.
.....that's actually what it is, isn't it?
Obviously no one ever picks dignity..
"It wasn't me it was my little sister who played... who doesn't speak English.. and she also wasn't surprised when you teleported her to another town and >walked< back to her position for an hour."
"I didn't bot. I used an intelligence not from this world."
"Your 13 screenshots of me teleporting away and being recalled to attack the bot test monster prove nothing. On a sidenote though my character looks like lovely peppermint ^^ "
Needless to say the public shaming was extremely popular on our forum.
In BnS, the botting and hacking was literally not ignorable. MANY matches in PVP were against bots and hackers and that's supposed to be the shining point of that game. Chat was full of goldseller spam and bots were frequently seen in huge groups in the world.
In BDO, I've been playing for a few weeks and I've not seen a bot, hacker, or goldseller spam. Granted, I'm not high level yet, but so far it is easily ignorable since there's literally nothing to ignore in the first place.
I do think, however, that PA/Daum should make it a big priority to work on hack detection. If they can't and they really want to rely on this video process, then they at least need to hire a few more guys and give them more hours and be a bit more stringent on the review process for overturning bans.
So, yeah, nobody should expect a hack/bot free MMO, but at the same time we should expect the Devs to be doing as much as they can.
Daum seem to be a typical lowlife publishing company saying one thing and doing something completely different.
Man, I remember when these companies used to have at least a little respect for their players