I pretty much agree with what everyone else had to say about why they dislike PvP.... besides... I used to like PvP then I took an arrow to my knee.... (actually I never liked PvP but it was too good an opportunity to pass up.)
I think most people actually enjoy some level of PvP. Most people do not however enjoy the typical PVP we think of in association with MMORPGs; particularly the FFA, Open-world kind.
Fair and competitive play is generally welcomed, as is proven by all those other genres just exploding with PvP players... even the card games like Hearthstone.
I think one of the biggest problems is the constant need to be looking over your shoulder expecting to be attacked at any point. Even for people who enjoy PvP, this gets tiring and tedious. Getting jumped by a gank squad, ambushed at low health, killed while AFK in a city, etc., are all "freedoms" that stop alot of people from enjoying PvP at all. As a bonus to this: Stealth/invisibility classes make this much worse by far.
I have known tons of "PvP haters" who went into battlegrounds or arenas or WvW or what have you and found that they really enjoyed more structured and straight-forward PvP.
I personally like the concept of (mostly)open-world PvP, but I do believe any game that goes with pure 100% FFA will be a barren wasteland devoid of a playerbase. I like PvP, but not all the time. Sometimes even PvP players just want to do other stuff. I fully believe that most players like a mix of PvE and PvP.
And, as others have mentioned, power gaps in MMOs/RPGs are far worse than in any other game type -- be it levels, gear creep, one-sided abilities like perma-stealth, etc.
The fair-and-competitive balance of power that most people require for PvP is a tightrope. And, most developers are not acrobats.
Since I'm clueless what I say has no impact . It should not draw such ire. Me thinks one doth protest too much
He's not wrong. Some of what has been written about Eve is based on a few players bad experience with the game. That is fine, that is their opinion however, I would caution against re-stating that same opinion as your own. If I had only ever read that people hate pizza, and I decided I hate pizza as well based off what they say and not actually experiencing pizza, I would be somewhat ignorant in repeating my thoughts to others. This is essentially what you are doing. Saying: I have no interest in learning any more about said game/food/topic based off what others have said, sounds much better than taking a strong position and damning a topic you essentially only know about via rumor. I hope that helps.
The issue with perpetuating this rumor is that you are informing others, based off rumors that XYZ is bad. It ruins your credibility as well as degrades the potential for new players to find a game they may have otherwise enjoyed had they not read your uninformed and wrongly biased opinion.
As a side note, when approached with the proper attitude, Eve is a magnificent game and you can have heaps of fun. Sort of the same with PvP in general.
Yes he is wrong. Eve has been around for over a decade. During that time there has been a multitude of order more bad press written about Eve than just by a "few players." So much, in fact, that it has become its legacy giving anyone who has been around for a while, or done even a modicum of research, a very accurate idea of how the game plays without having actually played it.
In fact, reviews are exactly how gaming websites and professional game reviewers make their living. By offering reviews of games a reviewer gives the reader an idea of how a game plays so as to allow the reader to make an educated decision as to whether or not they would be interested in playing the game, without having actually played the game. An excellent argument could be made that Eve has been out long enough, and enough reviews and player feed back has been documented about it in the past decade, to give a reader a pretty good idea regarding every single aspect of Eve game play without having even taken a glimpse of its log in screen, much less having played it.
There is no mystery when it comes to Eve game play. It's game play has been well documented for over a decade. Most avid gamers have already played it at some point or other. As a matter of fact, I would question the credibility of anyone claiming themselves to be a serious gamer, that hasn't tried Eve or has amassed some pretty good knowledge of the game over the years to form a pretty accurate impression of how it plays.
I think MMORPG players are most sensitive. Time loss and lack of control are the biggest reason that most people hate PvP.
I like PvP to have a purpose but realize now that it has to have accountability which most don't. Might makes right never will work in this genre because nothing is permanent. Many wolves don't want equaling punishment towards them. Some feel like why allow a behavior if its only going to be discouraged. To me the whole point of having PvP is to allow conflict not to constantly force it.
I am not into MMORPG Esports. I find vast vertical progression is bad for PvP as well.
I've played Final Fantasy XIV and was cool with it. I've played Archeage and was 100% cool with it. The PVP isn't what chased me away. It was the RNG, P2W, Gamble To Win, Cheating & Hacking, Silly Korean Developer design choices, and inept Publisher woes that ultimately caused the /uninstall.
There are too many stupid "PVE'erz vs PVP'erz" absolutes being tossed around by people whose maturity and common sense can't be confirmed. No point in debating.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
People don't hate PVP. But that's not what's been implemented in most MMOs. What people hate is griefing with impunity, which is the game that's been implemented in most MMOs.
PVE ppl call it PVP when they win, griefing when they lose.
Still remember it well. Low level member of the guild was trying to level. Rift: Gloamwood: "Pre-Made" 5 man PVP team of level 50s. Waiting at the spawn point picking off individual level 20s. We all showed up and within 2 minutes the "pvpers" were gone. Such a classic PVP scene.
IMHO Lotro was the only MMORPG that almost got PVP right. The whole Creeps vs Freeps was a great idea. Players can create and level up "Bad Guys" at the Moors while they can fight players who bring their characters to the area. I think the design would have been perfect if they would have required Freeps had to create and level up their PVP Moor characters. That way all the constant crying of PVP balance wouldn't have affected the PVE game play for the rest of the player base.
So, for those of you who really really don't like PvP. What is it about it that makes it so terrible for you? I'm genuinely curious, since I enjoy it myself.
The PvPers themselves. They have fun attacking weaker players then mocking them for being weak. "Git gud" is not an excuse to be a bully.
Those people are such a small minority of the PvP community that its insulting to tar us all with the same brush.
It's like saying I hate PvEers because they're all ninja-looters.
PvP should be sports, but its not. The small minority of sportsmen can not stand against the wankers .. jizz everywhere
No reason for there to be this issue, but if you set up a MMO badly it can cause mayhem. It is astonishing that with the history of various ways this has been implemented well known, MMOs still make mistakes.
Bottom line: PvP gives people a incentive to buy in the cash shop, so it is never going to go away.
MMO's with PVP servers are great. Those with no choice, not so great. It's all about the player's experience, and if they want PVP. When they don't (PVE'er), and it's forced on them, then it's the wrong game for them. The reverse is true, for a PVP'er to want combat with other players, yet isn't allowed, it's no fun. The choice was taken from them.
I find it comical that someone who does not play BDO for instance does spend their time on that board frequently putting it down has no qualms about pointing out that I should not be commenting about EvE having not played it. What's good for the gander is good for the goose I guess.
Players love 100% skill based PvP - heck look at chess etc... games that have stood the test of times before video games came along.
That sentence doesn't even make sense lol
What does chess have anything to do relating to video gaming combat PvP? People who play games love competition. Competition can be derived in any of a myriad of ways, including playing games against a computer.
You do realize that playing chess against a computer is vastly more popular nowadays than playing chess against another person? As is black jack, solitaire, checkers or almost any other type of gaming.
Seems we have a stalker on this forum who instead of responding to my post accordingly, just cowardly LoLs my every post. Hopefully he isn't losing sleep over me every night. Keep feeding me those LOLs buddy
Edit: ... oh look, and he has an alt .. or is it another cowardly gopher minion?
I consider pvp in mmos (to a great extent) ego competition stuff, which is reflected in toxicity,..Personally I do not play video games to deal with all kind of rude folks,...but for fun. That's it, but since most new mmos are focused or contain ''forced'' pvp & solo gameplay, I don't play any of them.
I dislike unrealistic pvp and that includes freakin wizards and mages and dragons and pretty much think if its fantasy then pvp is pretty silly.....and very hard to balance.
I also dislike pvp being shunted into PVE games or vice versa. Balancing pvp and pve together is a monumental task for developers and just shouldnt be done imo. Either you have a pvp game, or a pve game. Or, you make pvp completely separated from pve ala GW2.
Seems we have a stalker on this forum who instead of responding to my post accordingly, just cowardly LoLs my every post. Hopefully he isn't losing sleep over me every night. Keep feeding me those LOLs buddy :awesome:
Oh, he does that to a lot of people including myself. Pay no mind.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I've had some good PvP times; SWG when they had the 'flagging' system in place and in Vendetta Online. With both there was that thrill / scared feeling as I moved around the world staying on my toes.
On the other hand in AoC way back when White Sand's Island was Pvp (while the rest was PvE) I got jumped by a lvl 25 (max for the island) while I was still below lvl 10. She killed me, then waited for me to come off the rez platform and killed me again. I never had a chance and there wasn't anything in it for her.
Even though she let me go after the 2 kills it turned me off from the whole pure Pvp enviroment. Just not the types of players I want to be around.
- I like PvP that is only unbalanced through class variety and player skill. Meaning, two (faction?)opposite classes should never be a mirror class of each other for the sake of balance (a Horde warrior didn't go to the same fighting training school as an Alliance warrior but they still learned exactly the same moves...). And no gear should affect combat, only player skill. For this to work well the game cannot be based on enemy tagging (like tab target mmos where your hits cant be avoided in real time) because those are based entirely on percentage/numbers, no real dodging, no real blocking, no real parrying, so whoever hits harder and have the most cc will always win.
Seems we have a stalker on this forum who instead of responding to my post accordingly, just cowardly LoLs my every post. Hopefully he isn't losing sleep over me every night. Keep feeding me those LOLs buddy :awesome:
Edit: ... oh look, and he has an alt .. or is it another cowardly gopher minion?
/childish and immature *smh*
Up yours. The shit your saying is laughable. You don't even know wtf PvP is, as evidence by your reply to DMKano chess example.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
In my opinion BGs are still the best, wow Eq2 and Swtor all do this very well and Eso have a massive zone to play pvp to your hearts content ,but mmos by their very nature are made for pve an mmo without crafting ,gathering resources, etc would be like a sandwich with no bread and theres nothing worse than having collected a load of gear and some dork back stabbing you. so BGs for me tho having said that gloria victus has a very good loot system where you only get time to loot 1 maybe 2 items that actually works well
According to Steam, I've played over 2000 hours of War Thunder and over 400 hours of Planetside 2. Does that make me a PVP'er ?
Yet I've never even set foot in ESO's PVP zone, and my main is well into Champion levels by now. In MMO's, I almost exclusively seem to PVE. Even in EVE I managed to avoid PVP 99% of the time I played. I played EVE for 6 years...
i enjoy being apart of a faction and facing off against another faction wherever and whenever.. it's fun and can be quite amazing from time to time. but yeah they should probably have pve & pvp servers. because of my preferred style i could never really understand why anyone would be against PvP when the whole thing is about 2 factions fighting eachother but alot of people are.
Answers
"Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome."
Most people do not however enjoy the typical PVP we think of in association with MMORPGs; particularly the FFA, Open-world kind.
Fair and competitive play is generally welcomed, as is proven by all those other genres just exploding with PvP players... even the card games like Hearthstone.
I think one of the biggest problems is the constant need to be looking over your shoulder expecting to be attacked at any point. Even for people who enjoy PvP, this gets tiring and tedious.
Getting jumped by a gank squad, ambushed at low health, killed while AFK in a city, etc., are all "freedoms" that stop alot of people from enjoying PvP at all.
As a bonus to this: Stealth/invisibility classes make this much worse by far.
I have known tons of "PvP haters" who went into battlegrounds or arenas or WvW or what have you and found that they really enjoyed more structured and straight-forward PvP.
I personally like the concept of (mostly)open-world PvP, but I do believe any game that goes with pure 100% FFA will be a barren wasteland devoid of a playerbase. I like PvP, but not all the time. Sometimes even PvP players just want to do other stuff. I fully believe that most players like a mix of PvE and PvP.
And, as others have mentioned, power gaps in MMOs/RPGs are far worse than in any other game type -- be it levels, gear creep, one-sided abilities like perma-stealth, etc.
The fair-and-competitive balance of power that most people require for PvP is a tightrope. And, most developers are not acrobats.
Yes he is wrong. Eve has been around for over a decade. During that time there has been a multitude of order more bad press written about Eve than just by a "few players." So much, in fact, that it has become its legacy giving anyone who has been around for a while, or done even a modicum of research, a very accurate idea of how the game plays without having actually played it.
In fact, reviews are exactly how gaming websites and professional game reviewers make their living. By offering reviews of games a reviewer gives the reader an idea of how a game plays so as to allow the reader to make an educated decision as to whether or not they would be interested in playing the game, without having actually played the game. An excellent argument could be made that Eve has been out long enough, and enough reviews and player feed back has been documented about it in the past decade, to give a reader a pretty good idea regarding every single aspect of Eve game play without having even taken a glimpse of its log in screen, much less having played it.
There is no mystery when it comes to Eve game play. It's game play has been well documented for over a decade. Most avid gamers have already played it at some point or other. As a matter of fact, I would question the credibility of anyone claiming themselves to be a serious gamer, that hasn't tried Eve or has amassed some pretty good knowledge of the game over the years to form a pretty accurate impression of how it plays.
I like PvP to have a purpose but realize now that it has to have accountability which most don't. Might makes right never will work in this genre because nothing is permanent. Many wolves don't want equaling punishment towards them. Some feel like why allow a behavior if its only going to be discouraged. To me the whole point of having PvP is to allow conflict not to constantly force it.
I am not into MMORPG Esports. I find vast vertical progression is bad for PvP as well.
There are too many stupid "PVE'erz vs PVP'erz" absolutes being tossed around by people whose maturity and common sense can't be confirmed. No point in debating.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Rift:
Gloamwood:
"Pre-Made" 5 man PVP team of level 50s. Waiting at the spawn point picking off individual level 20s.
We all showed up and within 2 minutes the "pvpers" were gone. Such a classic PVP scene.
That was some good "pvp" right there.
The small minority of sportsmen can not stand against the wankers .. jizz everywhere
No reason for there to be this issue, but if you set up a MMO badly it can cause mayhem. It is astonishing that with the history of various ways this has been implemented well known, MMOs still make mistakes.
Bottom line: PvP gives people a incentive to buy in the cash shop, so it is never going to go away.
MMO's with PVP servers are great. Those with no choice, not so great. It's all about the player's experience, and if they want PVP. When they don't (PVE'er), and it's forced on them, then it's the wrong game for them. The reverse is true, for a PVP'er to want combat with other players, yet isn't allowed, it's no fun. The choice was taken from them.
Choices are our friends.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/What does chess have anything to do relating to video gaming combat PvP? People who play games love competition. Competition can be derived in any of a myriad of ways, including playing games against a computer.
You do realize that playing chess against a computer is vastly more popular nowadays than playing chess against another person? As is black jack, solitaire, checkers or almost any other type of gaming.
Seems we have a stalker on this forum who instead of responding to my post accordingly, just cowardly LoLs my every post. Hopefully he isn't losing sleep over me every night. Keep feeding me those LOLs buddy
Edit: ... oh look, and he has an alt .. or is it another cowardly gopher minion?
/childish and immature *smh*
I also dislike pvp being shunted into PVE games or vice versa. Balancing pvp and pve together is a monumental task for developers and just shouldnt be done imo. Either you have a pvp game, or a pve game. Or, you make pvp completely separated from pve ala GW2.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I've had some good PvP times; SWG when they had the 'flagging' system in place and in Vendetta Online. With both there was that thrill / scared feeling as I moved around the world staying on my toes.
On the other hand in AoC way back when White Sand's Island was Pvp (while the rest was PvE) I got jumped by a lvl 25 (max for the island) while I was still below lvl 10. She killed me, then waited for me to come off the rez platform and killed me again. I never had a chance and there wasn't anything in it for her.
Even though she let me go after the 2 kills it turned me off from the whole pure Pvp enviroment. Just not the types of players I want to be around.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
- I like PvP, but...
- I don't like forced PvP.
- I don't like PvPers ruining my PvE.
- I like PvP that is only unbalanced through class variety and player skill. Meaning, two (faction?)opposite classes should never be a mirror class of each other for the sake of balance (a Horde warrior didn't go to the same fighting training school as an Alliance warrior but they still learned exactly the same moves...). And no gear should affect combat, only player skill. For this to work well the game cannot be based on enemy tagging (like tab target mmos where your hits cant be avoided in real time) because those are based entirely on percentage/numbers, no real dodging, no real blocking, no real parrying, so whoever hits harder and have the most cc will always win.
- I still prefer PvE.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Yet I've never even set foot in ESO's PVP zone, and my main is well into Champion levels by now. In MMO's, I almost exclusively seem to PVE. Even in EVE I managed to avoid PVP 99% of the time I played. I played EVE for 6 years...
because of my preferred style i could never really understand why anyone would be against PvP when the whole thing is about 2 factions fighting eachother but alot of people are.
I had fun once, it was terrible.