When I first started in 99-2000 I enjoyed grouping because most of the players were willing to stay a couple of hours at least......Since 2010 the groups I have been in we are lucky to play for an hour before people start quitting..The problem with an instant gratifcation society is that people dont want to work for anything...They want everything handed to them and as fast as possible....It really is contrary to a group setting.
When I first started in 99-2000 I enjoyed grouping because most of the players were willing to stay a couple of hours at least......Since 2010 the groups I have been in we are lucky to play for an hour before people start quitting..The problem with an instant gratifcation society is that people dont want to work for anything...They want everything handed to them and as fast as possible....It really is contrary to a group setting.
I welcome bite sized and smaller chunks of gaming that lead to a feeling of satisfaction. We don't let our kids spend more than an hour in front of a screen because it's unhealthy for them. Key word being unhealthy. You're not supposed to sit on your rump for hours.
The primary attraction for me is shared goals. Sharing a goal with someone put us on a team, and gives us a topic to discuss. That automatically bypasses my social incompetence, even places me high in the hierarchy.
These days, we all solo and have seperate goals, even in dungeons it's just your own personal responsibility generally. Your own cool downs, your own twitch skills, your own loot, etc. No longer a shared goal.
Like society, I am in competition with everyone. Stressful and lonely.
To put it simply: do what you want when you want. Don't have to wait to form groups to take on content. You can play on your schedule. As a busy father and business man it suits my life.
1.) - I go afk a lot and sometimes for extended periods (fall asleep).
2.) - When I am online I have specific goals and many times those goals are not treadmill shit. I like ot go places and do stuff that may be old content.
3.) - Others seem to rush (to me they seem to rush). I like to take my time and I am slow at keyboard so I have to hurry up a lot which I don't like.
I don't get why the group content advocates think that because people want some solo content that all they ever do is solo.
I mean do the group content people login and remain perfectly still until they find a group? "LFG so I can go to the AH to buy stuff"?
It's like going to the park, some days you just want to go sit in the sun and read a book or maybe toss a frisbee around with your friend or maybe you want to get into a pick up game of hoops, all valid things to do at the park.
I mostly solo in the MMORPG's that I play, because it suits my play style.
I like exploring. I like looking at the scenery. I dawdle.
I absolutely abhor racing through a dungeon at the highest possible speed, which is what EVERY group I've ever played with does.
In ESO, I explore every square inch of the map. I know the vast majority of players don't do that, because I almost never see anyone else on my wanderings. Only when I get close to the most "efficient" route between quest objectives do I see lots of other players.
The devs in ESO went to great lengths to place treasure chests in the weirdest places, often brilliantly hidden. Most of that work was wasted, because almost nobody bothers looking for them. The rewards from the chests are not considered to be "worth it" given the time needed to find them.
Gaming should have stayed the way it was in the past when it comes to multiplayer vs single player.
Today more mmos cater to solo players while more and more single players (thanks EA and UBI...) are adopting the massively boring kill 10 rats/collect 10 bear arses quest mentality. Effectively ruining both experiences. Keep mmos for groups, and dont bring poor mmo gameplay to my single player, story driven RPGs.
MMO's must have solo character progressions so you can keep playing the game whenever you feel like, without being forced to depend on someone who might not be on or simply not available in the world.
MMO's must have solo character progressions so you can keep playing the game whenever you feel like, without being forced to depend on someone who might not be on or simply not available in the world.
Difficulty scale based on number of players could help with that, if done properly. If you are alone its a cakewalk. If you want a challenge, gather a bunch of people and the area will significantly scale in difficulty. But cannot be in a group otherwise it will not make sense and will be unbalanced for other people around that may not be part of the group but want to help.
As for the size of the area that will scale in difficulty, make it X radius around the enemy/ies. Large enough to cover many players and space to move around, but small enough to not hinder other players doing other stuff in the same zone.
You're making it too complicated. I play solo because I need a damned break from customers all week. If I group, it's usually with my guild. Everyone contributes to the pot and anyone can use it so its helpful to everyone. Plus I often get "well you never ask for anything from us so what is it you need and we'll get it for you?" from my guilds.
Scaling is unrealistic, thus not the future for MMO's. Sorry @rojoArcueid, but obtaining gear, powers that actually allow me to do solo what many could do in a group by being better than others and putting more time and effort in the game is the more realistic approach.
My reasons: I can play the way I want to play I am not dependent upon waiting for others to move ahead in the game I am not dependent upon relying on others for things I wish to do/complete I am not forced to play with specific people who will either get us killed or sabotage the event in game I prefer to do things in my own time without having to rely on others
Gaming should have stayed the way it was in the past when it comes to multiplayer vs single player.
Today more mmos cater to solo players while more and more single players (thanks EA and UBI...) are adopting the massively boring kill 10 rats/collect 10 bear arses quest mentality. Effectively ruining both experiences. Keep mmos for groups, and dont bring poor mmo gameplay to my single player, story driven RPGs.
Yeah, Dragon Age is guilty of that in the last game. Those filler task are the worst thing invented.
Scaling is unrealistic, thus not the future for MMO's. Sorry @rojoArcueid, but obtaining gear, powers that actually allow me to do solo what many could do in a group by being better than others and putting more time and effort in the game is the more realistic approach.
Actually its the total opposite. Lets say someone is bullying you, do you magically get stronger by changing clothes? lol. No. You get a group of friends to beat the crap out of the bully, but he gets another group of bullies, and suddenly it becomes a bigger and more challenging fight. Sorry, couldnt think of a better example while keeping things as realistic as you want them to be. Depending on the type of encounter, gear alone, or difficulty scaling alone can work better than the other.
Gaming should have stayed the way it was in the past when it comes to multiplayer vs single player.
Today more mmos cater to solo players while more and more single players (thanks EA and UBI...) are adopting the massively boring kill 10 rats/collect 10 bear arses quest mentality. Effectively ruining both experiences. Keep mmos for groups, and dont bring poor mmo gameplay to my single player, story driven RPGs.
Boring is subjective. It is clearly not boring for those who are spending time on it. Sure, it may ruin the experience for you ... but no devs promised to only cater to you, did they?
Gaming should have stayed the way it was in the past when it comes to multiplayer vs single player.
Today more mmos cater to solo players while more and more single players (thanks EA and UBI...) are adopting the massively boring kill 10 rats/collect 10 bear arses quest mentality. Effectively ruining both experiences. Keep mmos for groups, and dont bring poor mmo gameplay to my single player, story driven RPGs.
Boring is subjective. It is clearly not boring for those who are spending time on it. Sure, it may ruin the experience for you ... but no devs promised to only cater to you, did they?
They dont have to cater to me. They have to make a fun game. Brainless repetition is not fun gameplay, its time filler. You dont have to like that content, its the only way they offer to keep progressing so you have to do it if you want to reach the end of the game. That is the justification for such content. Its still boring.
Thats my opinion anyway. It would be better if they get more creative, or at least dont plague single player games with that content.
The thing with solo in an MMO for me was, the MMO's I was most interactive in were the ones I knew I could slip in to solo play whenever I wanted. Forced is the barrier but that's true of anything in any game. Forced to do quests, forced to group, forced to level up. I just hate linear game style.
Mmos had significant solo play from day one. So ask those who say they should have stayed the same with single player games for solo and mmo games for group i have no idea what you are talking about.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I don't understand what we're talking about? What is a solo MMO? Most MMOs force group play. There is no alternate progression routes in most MMOs anymore that aren't locked behind an instance that requires group play.
I'm a lonewolf player, I have been since Lineage 1. I like to do my own thing, at my own pace. As for the "shy" thing, I have social anxiety and that exists even online to a degree. I can't do voice comms, which is a huge requirement in todays gaming.
I totally understand, you answered my question of what I was thinking.
Your not alone. Seems half are lonewolfs.....It would be nice for at least one mmo for the other half.
Thanks so much
The thing is you can play any MMO socially if you want to - you can group and be in an active guild and never solo - this is true even in solo-friendly MMOs.
me...me...me.
Looking outside ones personal tastes, it's not healthy for the genre if the majority is soloing and not interacting with each other.
This is going to sound very ..."purist" but if the majority is soloing how is the minority going to do group content with out the willing patrons?
It just becomes a genre of single player games with a online drm requirement.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I don't think modern MMOs are designed as singleplayer games. I think they're games where multiplayer is largely - but not completely - optional.
That's as it should be.
However, I do think certain modern MMOs have a bad multplayer design - because the flow is based around "static delivery" of story. Games like ESO or TSW are too focused on story-heavy quests - and the delivery of story and exposition takes up WAY too much of the time. That means playing with others becomes inconvenient - and the experience is ruined.
Really unfortunate, because some of the most fun in this world is sharing a good story. But they really need to work on new ways to deliver story-content to all players without interrupting the flow of the game.
Games like ESO or TSW are too focused on story-heavy quests - and the delivery of story and exposition takes up WAY too much of the time.
Nothing to do with time, that is plain silly. Single player RPGs are all about story and it is a non-issue.
The problem is your next paragraph "sharing the story". That is not going to happen unless you fragment it into small individual chunks that at the end have little to do with "story".
Primary issue that makes grouping difficult is progression. Progression creates gaps between players - different levels, different gear, different story, etc. GW2 is a prime example of game that tried to solve the problem by only possible way - to ease on progression:
1) You can either make content/player level adjustments but at the same time such feature makes progression to an extent meaningless.
2) You can remove/lessen progression in its entirety but then, people love progression.
And I am not convinced it worked well for GW2.
I think current games are fine and delivering what players actually want.
Games like ESO or TSW are too focused on story-heavy quests - and the delivery of story and exposition takes up WAY too much of the time.
Nothing to do with time, that is plain silly. Single player RPGs are all about story and it is a non-issue.
The problem is your next paragraph "sharing the story". That is not going to happen unless you fragment it into small individual chunks that at the end have little to do with "story".
Primary issue that makes grouping difficult is progression. Progression creates gaps between players - different levels, different gear, different story, etc. GW2 is a prime example of game that tried to solve the problem by only possible way - to ease on progression:
1) You can either make content/player level adjustments but at the same time such feature makes progression to an extent meaningless.
2) You can remove/lessen progression in its entirety but then, people love progression.
And I am not convinced it worked well for GW2.
I think current games are fine and delivering what players actually want.
No "LOL" this time? I already miss it
I don't agree. As they're not singleplayer games - there's a pretty significant difference.
Breaking the flow every time people have to interact with NPCs is very unfortunate.
There are many ways to share the story better - and SWtOR does it a lot better, though it's still not ideal. It's much less of a problem when all party members are part of the NPC interaction together.
No, I don't agree that progression has to be a problem for groups. That's just another design challenge that can be solved with intent.
If you think all current games deliver everything people want - then you're deluded.
Comments
These days, we all solo and have seperate goals, even in dungeons it's just your own personal responsibility generally. Your own cool downs, your own twitch skills, your own loot, etc. No longer a shared goal.
Like society, I am in competition with everyone. Stressful and lonely.
1.) - I go afk a lot and sometimes for extended periods (fall asleep).
2.) - When I am online I have specific goals and many times those goals are not treadmill shit. I like ot go places and do stuff that may be old content.
3.) - Others seem to rush (to me they seem to rush). I like to take my time and I am slow at keyboard so I have to hurry up a lot which I don't like.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
I mean do the group content people login and remain perfectly still until they find a group? "LFG so I can go to the AH to buy stuff"?
It's like going to the park, some days you just want to go sit in the sun and read a book or maybe toss a frisbee around with your friend or maybe you want to get into a pick up game of hoops, all valid things to do at the park.
I like exploring. I like looking at the scenery. I dawdle.
I absolutely abhor racing through a dungeon at the highest possible speed, which is what EVERY group I've ever played with does.
In ESO, I explore every square inch of the map. I know the vast majority of players don't do that, because I almost never see anyone else on my wanderings. Only when I get close to the most "efficient" route between quest objectives do I see lots of other players.
The devs in ESO went to great lengths to place treasure chests in the weirdest places, often brilliantly hidden. Most of that work was wasted, because almost nobody bothers looking for them. The rewards from the chests are not considered to be "worth it" given the time needed to find them.
Today more mmos cater to solo players while more and more single players (thanks EA and UBI...) are adopting the massively boring kill 10 rats/collect 10 bear arses quest mentality. Effectively ruining both experiences. Keep mmos for groups, and dont bring poor mmo gameplay to my single player, story driven RPGs.
As for the size of the area that will scale in difficulty, make it X radius around the enemy/ies. Large enough to cover many players and space to move around, but small enough to not hinder other players doing other stuff in the same zone.
I can play the way I want to play
I am not dependent upon waiting for others to move ahead in the game
I am not dependent upon relying on others for things I wish to do/complete
I am not forced to play with specific people who will either get us killed or sabotage the event in game
I prefer to do things in my own time without having to rely on others
You can always group if you want to ... that is an option in almost all MMOs.
Thats my opinion anyway. It would be better if they get more creative, or at least dont plague single player games with that content.
me...me...me.
Looking outside ones personal tastes, it's not healthy for the genre if the majority is soloing and not interacting with each other.
This is going to sound very ..."purist" but if the majority is soloing how is the minority going to do group content with out the willing patrons?
It just becomes a genre of single player games with a online drm requirement.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
That's as it should be.
However, I do think certain modern MMOs have a bad multplayer design - because the flow is based around "static delivery" of story. Games like ESO or TSW are too focused on story-heavy quests - and the delivery of story and exposition takes up WAY too much of the time. That means playing with others becomes inconvenient - and the experience is ruined.
Really unfortunate, because some of the most fun in this world is sharing a good story. But they really need to work on new ways to deliver story-content to all players without interrupting the flow of the game.
The problem is your next paragraph "sharing the story". That is not going to happen unless you fragment it into small individual chunks that at the end have little to do with "story".
Primary issue that makes grouping difficult is progression. Progression creates gaps between players - different levels, different gear, different story, etc. GW2 is a prime example of game that tried to solve the problem by only possible way - to ease on progression:
1) You can either make content/player level adjustments but at the same time such feature makes progression to an extent meaningless.
2) You can remove/lessen progression in its entirety but then, people love progression.
And I am not convinced it worked well for GW2.
I think current games are fine and delivering what players actually want.
I don't agree. As they're not singleplayer games - there's a pretty significant difference.
Breaking the flow every time people have to interact with NPCs is very unfortunate.
There are many ways to share the story better - and SWtOR does it a lot better, though it's still not ideal. It's much less of a problem when all party members are part of the NPC interaction together.
No, I don't agree that progression has to be a problem for groups. That's just another design challenge that can be solved with intent.
If you think all current games deliver everything people want - then you're deluded.