Do you consider purchasable inventory space in an mmo to be p2w?

scorpex-x

So ffxi has added 160 slots of extra inventory for $4 a month, this is a p2p mmo.

There was quite an uproar about this among ffxi players, do you consider this p2w or not?

Xatsh

The sub fee should cover all ingame items period. Be it cosmetic, inventory, gear, or boosters.

So yes it is a p2w element in the game. Is it a game breaker, probably not. But it is SE showing greed and wanting people to pay more money instead of adding to an ingame function or quest like the gobby bag expansions.

But in short this crap has no place in p2p games, but also in all honesty FFXI should not be a p2p game anymore in my opinion. So yea they are just double dipping.

rojoArcueid

inventory space is not p2w, but its a terrible idea to sell it on a p2p mmo. I wouldnt touch that game with a 10 feet pole. But why bother paying for that in a game that can shut down any day now... I think they are testing the waters to bring that crap to XIV. I know i wont come back to XIV if they make that move.

Alders

Back in my day all inventory space was questable and we were limited by the PS2! That's the way it was and we liked it.

Kyleran

No, not P2W, certainly is an advantage, like Exp pots and the like, but like others have already said, it just sucks when inventory space isn't part of the core game design and included with the purchase price or sub fee.

simsalabim77

Not really P2W, but it's annoying when you consider how much time players spent upgrading their bags in-game, and it does offer benefits to classes like Blue Mage who usually have a shitload of alternative gear to swap to in their inventories. 

Dakeru

Not p2w but an annoying "must have"
I bought a lot of inventory space on GW2 but I considered that an alternative subscription so I dealt with it.

I can only assume that SE is testing the waters, after all they want launch a mobile version of this game.

SpottyGekko

The generally accepted definition of P2W keeps being eroded as people keep trying to find new and creative ways to justify its existence in the games that they enjoy playing.

Remember, it's only truly P2W if it's a game that you don't intend playing...

Yaevindusk

Okay, so.  I've been looking into this, and it seems they already offer 160 additional bag spaces for free, in addition to whatever gobbie bags that you have.

That said, I do not believe that personal bag space (space that you can carry around) should be added to a monthly fee.  Bank space?  Sure.  As that was essentially what mules or additional characters were, which costed an extra dollar a month each back in the day when FFXI was more prominent on the MMO market.

If they hadn't already given 160 additional slots, I'd say they should just have a one time fee for more space.  Though since they have and it's a persons choice on what they want to spend their money on, well... then I don't mind so much, personally.

Though I'm working on past knowledge whereby I couldn't even fathom filling up some 220+ inventory slots in that game.

kitarad

It depends on how much subscription you're paying. If it is lower than norm they can offer these conveniences it is not P2W by any stretch of imagination.

Yaevindusk

Dakeru said:

Not p2w but an annoying "must have"
I bought a lot of inventory space on GW2 but I considered that an alternative subscription so I dealt with it.

I can only assume that SE is testing the waters, after all they want launch a mobile version of this game.

I'm out of the loop with this game.  Is it really a must have when you already have 220+ bag slots?

Dakeru

Yaevindusk said:

Dakeru said:

Not p2w but an annoying "must have"
I bought a lot of inventory space on GW2 but I considered that an alternative subscription so I dealt with it.

I can only assume that SE is testing the waters, after all they want launch a mobile version of this game.

I'm out of the loop with this game.  Is it really a must have when you already have 220+ bag slots?

Ah sorry I didn't make clear that it's my own perspective.
Last time I played they had added a lot of inventory space for free which helped me a lot with all the fish I had stored for cooking.

The "must have" was more my general idea about MMOs given that I like to speculate about price changes of crafting materials so the more inventory slots the better.

jmcdermottuk

It's not pay to win, having more bag space is a convenience. That's said, it's a complete and utter fucking ripoff for a subscription based game to charge extra for basic game mechanics. It's just one more sad reflection on the state of the genre and gaming in general, which is becoming more and more about ca$h than about the games.

Corporate suits are destroying the industry in their endless quest for more profits at the expense of quality.

kitarad

The subscription has not increased at all in the years since it hit $15 so how does this greed and other arguments come in exactly. I would agree if over the years MMORPG subs have gone up but it has not yet you all expect them to continue to give you the games for the same price. 

Wizardry

Well there is a catch 22 and imo not a good one.

You see everyone wants rewards and items from events etc etc,however sooner or later your space will run out.So to charge extra for the inevitable is sort of lame,i say sort of because a lot of stuff is not worth hanging onto and the game already gives you tons of added space.

p2w,nope,not at this juncture of the game.Early on like years 1-5 yes it would be because space was at a premium and a lot more valuable with all the crafting items needed.
Biggest problem with Square is their extreme lack of communication,i guess all devs are slack in that area.It seems all devs ever want to tell us is their  marketing campaigns or sell us some kind of packages,the communication between dev and gamer is brutally bad.

So i would rather make an issue with the terrible community reps of all games than worry about the space in ffxi this late into the game.Square for example SHOULD be telling the players the WHY,tell the players exactly what the issues are but nope.

The whole debacle at Square began when they started making an over priced FFXIV,they messed up,cost them way too much and did not get the player base they imagined.So they began changing their morals,cheaper content expansions,changed the entire design of the game and worst of all made leveling extremely trivial to the point of who cares.

Gobstopper3D

Actually if they hadn't made the changes to the game that they did, it mostly likely would have been shutdown already.  The fact that they game is doing as well as it is, just shows that the changes were popular with the majority.

As far as P2W?, Not at all.  I don't think though that any game that is P2P should charge real money for extra bag space.  I also don't think any B2P games should either or should at least give you the option to earn it in-game without paying real money for it.

syriinx

rojoArcueid said:

inventory space is not p2w, but its a terrible idea to sell it on a p2p mmo. I wouldnt touch that game with a 10 feet pole. But why bother paying for that in a game that can shut down any day now... I think they are testing the waters to bring that crap to XIV. I know i wont come back to XIV if they make that move.

FFXIV has been selling inventory space since day 1 of ARR havent they?

The retainer system is the #1 reason i don't play FFXIV.  I like to gather and craft but trying to keep my inventory in order while shuffling retainers that take far too long to load ranks with the absolute worst systems in MMORPG history.

Slapshot1188

Yes
its paying for an in game edge
its not super high on the scale of p2w...  But yes it still is paying for an edge

jesteralways

Slapshot1188 said:

Yes
its paying for an in game edge
its not super high on the scale of p2w...  But yes it still is paying for an edge

Not and edge, a necessity. We all know how important inventory space is in mmo, specially mmorpg, making inventory space a separate design from core game and selling separately is just wrong on so many level, i can understand paying for getting extra xp; those who don't pay can grind a bit more or paying to lose less xp on death but paying for inventory space is just plain and simple bad. 

Distopia

No, any way you slice it the term p2W was meant as way to describe buying items of power, not conveniences. Inventory space is not an item of power. Trying to include such things under the P2W moniker is extremely distorting the meaning of that moniker. It's like calling jaywalking a driving offense. 

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Wizardry

Well the so called "EDGE" is a tough argument.

The reason is that since the game has such a grind most as they are playing right now,worry about one character class,maybe two,the space is not a concern to anyone.
As i mentioned earlier,the problem was years ago during years 1-5 when space really mattered.

The argument is shallow anyhow and is very tough to explain the WHY.

i'll use an example from FFXI.Early on MANY exploits or cheats could be used to gain large monetary gains and yes inventory space was involved via the many quest items needed for space.Point being to worry about SPACE in a very old game is the least of my concerns and should be the least concern of anyone when talking P2W.
It is the exploits and cheating that happen in these games from day 1 that is a far greater concern,one that has yet to be solved by developers.

Slapshot1188

Distopia said:

No, any way you slice it the term p2W was meant as way to describe buying items of power, not conveniences. Inventory space is not an item of power. Trying to include such things under the P2W moniker is extremely distorting the meaning of that moniker. It's like calling jaywalking a driving offense. 

3/4 readers here agree with my definition.

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/451584/what-is-closest-to-your-definition-of-p2w/p1

DijonCyanide

In a pay-to-play game I feel this exercise is exploitive of it's player-base & for pure greed.  The inventory space should be included with the monthly subscription.  It displays a lack of respect towards it's current subscribers. 

In a buy/free-to-play game I find this type of exercise acceptable because it offers better convenience for those willing to pay.  If you do not like it then simply do not pay & spend the time travelling back & forth.  It is not a pay-to-win feature though, but it does offer better quality of play.

I will admit I have never played a Final Fantasy online game, but I have played games with both facets before. 

jesteralways

Slapshot1188 said:

Distopia said:

No, any way you slice it the term p2W was meant as way to describe buying items of power, not conveniences. Inventory space is not an item of power. Trying to include such things under the P2W moniker is extremely distorting the meaning of that moniker. It's like calling jaywalking a driving offense. 

3/4 readers here agree with my definition.

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/451584/what-is-closest-to-your-definition-of-p2w/p1

That is because they just want to spend less for their enjoyment. It doesn't matter what for, any game that costs more than 15$ a month to play(whether it is mandatory or not), people automatically labeling them pay2win. People look at another person and see a good looking mount, not even the best mount in game; there are far better ones but this one is just a bit exotic and find out it is from cash shop; they instantly scream "PAY2WIN", in my opinion it is a mental disease.

Slapshot1188

jesteralways said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Distopia said:

No, any way you slice it the term p2W was meant as way to describe buying items of power, not conveniences. Inventory space is not an item of power. Trying to include such things under the P2W moniker is extremely distorting the meaning of that moniker. It's like calling jaywalking a driving offense. 

3/4 readers here agree with my definition.

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/451584/what-is-closest-to-your-definition-of-p2w/p1

That is because they just want to spend less for their enjoyment. It doesn't matter what for, any game that costs more than 15$ a month to play(whether it is mandatory or not), people automatically labeling them pay2win. People look at another person and see a good looking mount, not even the best mount in game; there are far better ones but this one is just a bit exotic and find out it is from cash shop; they instantly scream "PAY2WIN", in my opinion it is a mental disease.

Not sure that's the case.  I would have no issue paying $50/mo for a game that was good and included all costs...

Heck I'd MUCH rather play a standard Box +sub game than any F2P game.