Like I said I could careless about the boxes. My problem is the bugs and lag they either can't fix or care more about the crown store.
I just wish as consumers and more importantly gamers would for 1 month just say no more bs and not buy a single thing from the store. It would send a direct shot to the heart of the game and maybe finally wake up the business they can't ignore the problems like they keep doing on the forums.
For the few that will say it could end up closing the game. If they keep ignoring the problems it will close sooner or later. Gamers won't keep putting up with it for long. More so on the pvp side. Just fix the darn game.
Just to note, there is no DLC with the next update. It's all base game updates and one of the reasons they chose not to do DLC was to focus on bug fixes along with the changes to the base game. I think this was a good call and I expect it will continue to address the issues with pvp, etc.
Heard this a number of times, in beta and after live. They would give us a patch and nothing was fixed. Next patch back to do what they do. They have to start fixing faster after this long, a lot of players have just given up on them. The game has the potential to be great but only way that may happen is for changes at the top.
Let's hope this patch does fix a lot and make lag even less of a problem and pvp to be a little better balanced (but I admit pvp in any game is hard to balance).
I don't disagree with you as far as the speed of bug fixes, but I have seen things getting progressively better. I would love to see Cyrodiil function as well as it should (like non vet versions) without population reductions, etc however.
In games where I've actually seen something cosmetic I like in one I've not been that annoyed as I never had to throw real cash at them.
I could just buy the contents of these gambling boxes with in game gold on the AH.
That is something I NEVER want to see and you won't see in ESO. This allows you to buy lock boxes and sell the boxes or the content of the boxes for in game currency. This can translate into pay to win.
In my opinion, you should not be able to purchase something for real world cash and then use the purchased items to gain in game currency.
Swtor and Tera do this too. I absolutely dislike it, because it means the devs are wasting time on stuff like this, when items should be obtained within normal gameplay, such as boss fights or dungeons.
RNG loot should be dropped from mobs, dungeons, and bosses. They shouldn't be purchased without effort. It's just a cheap way of making a quick buck, while the rest of the game suffers.
That's an easy argument to use, but if you look closer at the ramifications of them, the game suffers as well, since the devs have to waste time developing for them.
i love ESO and have defended it at times but not this time. those gamble boxes are more like scam boxes, they prey off people who get addicting to buying those things because they just have to have that certain shiney.
i don't care that it's just mount skins, that's bull shit and i'm not okay with that. this is what F2P has done to this genre, F2P is a fucking cancer and brought this type of shit upon the genre.
i will still play ESO, it's not like it's a game breaker for me, but i'm very disappointed in their choice to add these things.
i love ESO and have defended it at times but not this time. those gamble boxes are more like scam boxes, they prey off people who get addicting to buying those things because they just have to have that certain shiney.
i don't care that it's just mount skins, that's bull shit and i'm not okay with that. this is what F2P has done to this genre, F2P is a fucking cancer and brought this type of shit upon the genre.
i will still play ESO, it's not like it's a game breaker for me, but i'm very disappointed in their choice to add these things.
ESO isn't F2P though. I think you meant cash shops?
Maximizing revenue and profits is the goal of every business, and MMOS are most definitely a business first and foremost.
Take a hard look at how BDO is doing it, expect many if not all games to employ several (not necessarily all) of the monetization strategies that title does.
yes and yet people talk about how bad the subscription based model is? at least with a sub you can get everything the game has to offer and don't need to be scammed for way more than that $15 a month fee.
sure sub models are bad....for the companies.....not bad for us, the consumers.
why don't they just sell those skins like they already do? they are basically saying "fuck that, we want to get the most out of these suckers we possibly can"
if they have to scam people out of their money just to keep their head above water, then maybe they should just sink.
i love ESO and have defended it at times but not this time. those gamble boxes are more like scam boxes, they prey off people who get addicting to buying those things because they just have to have that certain shiney.
i don't care that it's just mount skins, that's bull shit and i'm not okay with that. this is what F2P has done to this genre, F2P is a fucking cancer and brought this type of shit upon the genre.
i will still play ESO, it's not like it's a game breaker for me, but i'm very disappointed in their choice to add these things.
ESO isn't F2P though. I think you meant cash shops?
i know but the F2P games are what brought this on, that is what i meant. this game isn't even F2P which is one of the reasons why i am so disappointed.
i mean, if it were F2P at least the argument would be that they have to make their money somehow, even if i still don't like it.
but in a B2P game that already has an extensive cash shop to help make money on the side for them, they still pull this?
Here again we have a case of a business (Zenimax) doing what businesses do - aka come up with ways to make money and keep their products profitable.
Consumers (players) - have 2 options - play or don't, buy or don't - it's very clear cut.
For some reason players get confused and think that they are business owners and somehow should have direct input on regulating pricing of products that they didn't create nor have had any input on whatsoever, because they are NOT part of Zenimax.
What's strange is how this keeps happening over and over, players get confused over who they are - just consumers.
So... in your worldview when "just consumers" have opinions about how a company behaves, makes its money, what they should or shouldn't sell... that's just because they're deluding themselves? Interesting perspective.
Consumers have opinions about stuff and the internet gives them a forum to express what those are. Some people think this is inherently wrong. Some think it's the beginning of a slippery slope. Some think that it's a tacky way to make money. Some even like it... and they're all expressing their views. What is the problem with THAT exactly?
Having opinion on what to do as a consumer is fine:
Example: I don't like what Zenimax is doing, so I won't be purchasing these boxes.
Having an opinion on what a COMPANY that you are not a part of should do and how they should run their business is delusional:
Example: Zenimax is greedy and shouldn't sell these boxes
Do you see the difference - opinion on things that are in your control is fine, opinion on stuff that is NOT in your control is pointless.
What Zenimax does is their own business - they have the right to run their own company how they want
Another example of opinion that is based on delusion of having control:
The universe should stop this this expansion and acceleration because it's bad for everyone. The universe is self-destructive and uncaring of others.
Bottom line - there is an opinion that's valid as it has to do with an actionable item within your control.
And then there's opinions that are beyond your control and serve no purpose whatsoever, the problem remains that people think they need to have an opinion on everything - I think the popularity of social media is a big part of this.
No, this is just you telling @Iselin his opinion is "wrong" and that he's delusional and should just shut up since he has have no control over it. But in truth, you simply disagree with his opinion. What business do you have telling people they should be quiet and not express an opinion over what the companies who want our money are doing? You post is hypocritical. Your'e expressing one opinion to silence another you disagree with.
Hyperbole about the universe expanding has no bearing on Iselin's opinion. Since if enough people do express the same opinion, they can exert some pressure on these companies and it's not completely out of our control as is the nature of astrophysics. Which brings me to my next point.
I find it ironic that you belittled Iselin's comment about dumping chemicals as it has nothing to do with video game development. Yet, the universe ultimately destroying itself, does?
You completely missed my point. The universe was an example of an opinion based on "delusion of control"
That's an easy argument to use, but if you look closer at the ramifications of them, the game suffers as well, since the devs have to waste time developing for them.
Just look at the quality of SWTOR as an MMORPG. The game has truly gone to shit in the past year. Development has revolved around an expansion that once a month adds a single player cut scene. There's no "MM" in the MMO anymore.
observer said: That's an easy argument to use, but if you look closer at the ramifications of them, the game suffers as well, since the devs have to waste time developing for them.
Considering that they are used in other games, likely successfully, it is safe to assume that people do spend money on them thus hardly a waste of development time...
Swtor and Tera do this too. I absolutely dislike it, because it means the devs are wasting time on stuff like this, when items should be obtained within normal gameplay, such as boss fights or dungeons.
RNG loot should be dropped from mobs, dungeons, and bosses. They shouldn't be purchased without effort. It's just a cheap way of making a quick buck, while the rest of the game suffers.
Shouldn't....really?
You are now deciding how people play games, what they are spending money on and how companies run their business?
How about you get off your high horse and acknowledge that there are also other people having different opinions, casting different votes with their wallets?
Swtor and Tera do this too. I absolutely dislike it, because it means the devs are wasting time on stuff like this, when items should be obtained within normal gameplay, such as boss fights or dungeons.
RNG loot should be dropped from mobs, dungeons, and bosses. They shouldn't be purchased without effort. It's just a cheap way of making a quick buck, while the rest of the game suffers.
Shouldn't....really?
You are now deciding how people play games, what they are spending money on and how companies run their business?
How about you get off your high horse and acknowledge that there are also other people having different opinions, casting different votes with their wallets?
I'm sure the first thing on any ESO players wish list was cosmetic RNG casino lock boxes.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Swtor and Tera do this too. I absolutely dislike it, because it means the devs are wasting time on stuff like this, when items should be obtained within normal gameplay, such as boss fights or dungeons.
RNG loot should be dropped from mobs, dungeons, and bosses. They shouldn't be purchased without effort. It's just a cheap way of making a quick buck, while the rest of the game suffers.
Shouldn't....really?
You are now deciding how people play games, what they are spending money on and how companies run their business?
How about you get off your high horse and acknowledge that there are also other people having different opinions, casting different votes with their wallets?
Perhaps i didn't clarify my argument better.
I'm not deciding how people should play. In fact, i'm arguing that people should play the game, instead of purchasing items that bypasses the interaction of what constitutes a game.
I'll throw you a bone though, and play devil's advocate. Some consider RNG gambling a game, so it's possible to argue from that perspective. It still obfuscates the original purpose of an MMORPG though.
I was never on a high horse, but your condescension is telling.
Kyleran said: In its purest form it's when you bet money in the hope of getting more than you bet in return if you win.
That also include raffle, lottery, bingo or any game that involves money or betting in general.
There is no reason why gambling in any form should be forbidden. You cannot, and shouldn't, protect people from being stupid and/or irresponsible with their money.
Society disagrees about "no control at all". Most (all?) countries have laws pertaining to gambling.
And the reason is simple: there is an established link between gambling and crime. Forget people being allowed to do what they want. People who become addicted to gambling are more likely to break the law if they need money. Same deal with many other addictions. Thereby harming others. And possibly pushing up taxes due to increased policing costs and so on.
So its a fine line; sometimes a very fine line. Smoking, drinking, drugs etc. all in the same boat. Which is why this type of "activity" within games is under scrutiny.
You should get a bad smell from "chere is an established link between gambling and crime". By bad smell, I mean it is a pile of crap. It is the kind of statement you hear about things the police want to control/eliminate. It is thing to say to influence the weak minded who are quick to believe it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Gambling boxes. I remember when the argument was whether or not they would have a cash shop at all. They had made promises that they wouldn't. Now we have people defending gambling boxes. But at least it's the people that ALWAYS defend cash shops in all forms (including buying the best gear directly). And of course the die hard, no matter what is wrong with the game, they always spin it to be right supporters.
I dont mind purchasing games, i dont mind paying a FAIR monthly price for the game (this price should come down when the game gets dated, as servers will deminish as players start to leave but at least they will be kept running on a couple with subscriptions).
Everything then should have a chance to drop from certain places/boss's. I would have gear dropping rare, but have a currency that does drop (to everyone that took part in the fight). Gear would be tradable or even broken down into gear currency.
None of this crappy item shop stuff. It always tends to go the bad way and costs too. I had a friend who refused to play a subscription game, but had no issue's playing a F2P game with item shop. For the 1st 2 months it was purely free, then he started making purchase's and it was costing upwards of £40 a month and i asked him why the hell was he paying that ammount and he said he thought it was cheaper than a monthly subscription game of £8.99 a month untill he added all the purchase's up he was making, in 3 months he had made over a years worth of subscription time purchase's as well as the requirement to buy thge game at full price. I laughed, he wasnt pleased at that.
People still love to rage against this game even two years later. It still doesnt sell anything remotely as 'bad' as other games do. Nothing actually just skins and different looks.
I havent played in awhile but last checked I didnt see anything that gave anyone anything let alone an advantage.
But you can blame them selling stuff on the other games that have done it and continue ot do it and continue to keep players and continue to make money.
The 'outrage' over games selling things in game is nonsense. That ship sailed along time ago, there will never ever be another game made that wont sell things (besides the game itself) for money.
People are just going to have to use their own judgement on what they feel is acceptable and what isnt.
Eventually there will be so many different 'factions' of game youll need a cheat card to keep track of them all. basically free to play and buy to play then casual pay to win, hardcore pay to win, cosmetics sales, gambling sales, pay for 'convenience', and on and on and on.
gervaise1 said: Society disagrees about "no control at all". Most (all?) countries have laws pertaining to gambling.
And the reason is simple: there is an established link between gambling and crime.
Not at all.
Like you said, there is a "fine line". The reason behind the line is just politics, there are no practical reasons.
Should I remind you prohibition? See how that works?
Where is money, there is crime - always was and always will be.
But people like to hear such pompous rhetoric, that is how you get votes...
Society disagrees; laws about gambling exist. And to ignore established links between addiction, crime and medical issues goes against a whole raft of data, studies and experience going back hundreds of years. (Could be thousands of years - gambling existed in ancient societies as did laws about gambling).
Now your view maybe shaped by how things play out in the US. Elsewhere not the case. Others countries not the case; no prohibition either (good example of the fine line though).
Free will vs. the responsibility people have to each other - whether that is helping individuals who need help or preventing individuals doing harm to others.
Which takes us full circle in some respects.
Zenimax is not free to do what it wants. Like any companies it is bound by laws. Easy to say that companies should be able to do what they want but sex, nudity, violence, religious bigotry and US flag burning? There are limits. Actually not about the flag burning but that might not sell well in the US. You ,ight say that that is a self regulating law.
And populism - which drives explicit and self regulating laws is what this comes down to. As it stands RNG boxes are accepted maybe a better word would be tolerated - providing that minors are not placed at risk.
gervaise1 said: Society disagrees about "no control at all". Most (all?) countries have laws pertaining to gambling.
And the reason is simple: there is an established link between gambling and crime.
Not at all.
Like you said, there is a "fine line". The reason behind the line is just politics, there are no practical reasons.
Should I remind you prohibition? See how that works?
Where is money, there is crime - always was and always will be.
But people like to hear such pompous rhetoric, that is how you get votes...
Society disagrees; laws about gambling exist. And to ignore established links between addiction, crime and medical issues goes against a whole raft of data, studies and experience going back hundreds of years. (Could be thousands of years - gambling existed in ancient societies as did laws about gambling).
Now your view maybe shaped by how things play out in the US. Elsewhere not the case. Others countries not the case; no prohibition either (good example of the fine line though).
Free will vs. the responsibility people have to each other - whether that is helping individuals who need help or preventing individuals doing harm to others.
Which takes us full circle in some respects.
Zenimax is not free to do what it wants. Like any companies it is bound by laws. Easy to say that companies should be able to do what they want but sex, nudity, violence, religious bigotry and US flag burning? There are limits. Actually not about the flag burning but that might not sell well in the US. You ,ight say that that is a self regulating law.
And populism - which drives explicit and self regulating laws is what this comes down to. As it stands RNG boxes are accepted maybe a better word would be tolerated - providing that minors are not placed at risk.
You can have sex on a flag, while it is on fire, while shooting a bear, and flipping off a crucifix and then sell it in America.
But there are laws against gambling with the exception of a few parts in the US. Not that I necessarily agree with those laws, but it is funny that the other things you mentioned are actually legal, but gambling is not (for the most part).
observer said: Perhaps i didn't clarify my argument better.
Your post was clear and you have only confirmed what I said...
Confirmed what? I already discredited your response to my post. Just because i typed, "shouldn't", didn't mean i was dictating how people can play, or how companies can run their business. It was an implied opinion. Did i really need to type it out for you? Try to read things in context next time.
I won´t...but i HATE when they lock awesome loot behind them. I know they need to get money somehow...but gambling boxes sucks. It´s lazy and expensive! And you won´t get that awesome loot even paying a sub so it sucks double!
Comments
The Differently Geared
I could just buy the contents of these gambling boxes with in game gold on the AH.
In my opinion, you should not be able to purchase something for real world cash and then use the purchased items to gain in game currency.
Thankfully ESO is preventing that from happening.
RNG loot should be dropped from mobs, dungeons, and bosses. They shouldn't be purchased without effort. It's just a cheap way of making a quick buck, while the rest of the game suffers.
i don't care that it's just mount skins, that's bull shit and i'm not okay with that. this is what F2P has done to this genre, F2P is a fucking cancer and brought this type of shit upon the genre.
i will still play ESO, it's not like it's a game breaker for me, but i'm very disappointed in their choice to add these things.
sure sub models are bad....for the companies.....not bad for us, the consumers.
why don't they just sell those skins like they already do? they are basically saying "fuck that, we want to get the most out of these suckers we possibly can"
if they have to scam people out of their money just to keep their head above water, then maybe they should just sink.
i mean, if it were F2P at least the argument would be that they have to make their money somehow, even if i still don't like it.
but in a B2P game that already has an extensive cash shop to help make money on the side for them, they still pull this?
that isn't cool in my book.
He isn't "wrong", just "delusional".
How about you get off your high horse and acknowledge that there are also other people having different opinions, casting different votes with their wallets?
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I'm not deciding how people should play. In fact, i'm arguing that people should play the game, instead of purchasing items that bypasses the interaction of what constitutes a game.
I'll throw you a bone though, and play devil's advocate. Some consider RNG gambling a game, so it's possible to argue from that perspective. It still obfuscates the original purpose of an MMORPG though.
I was never on a high horse, but your condescension is telling.
You should get a bad smell from "chere is an established link between gambling and crime". By bad smell, I mean it is a pile of crap. It is the kind of statement you hear about things the police want to control/eliminate. It is thing to say to influence the weak minded who are quick to believe it.
Read about this guy as there are plenty of others. Like those saying video games lead to violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Everything then should have a chance to drop from certain places/boss's. I would have gear dropping rare, but have a currency that does drop (to everyone that took part in the fight). Gear would be tradable or even broken down into gear currency.
None of this crappy item shop stuff. It always tends to go the bad way and costs too. I had a friend who refused to play a subscription game, but had no issue's playing a F2P game with item shop. For the 1st 2 months it was purely free, then he started making purchase's and it was costing upwards of £40 a month and i asked him why the hell was he paying that ammount and he said he thought it was cheaper than a monthly subscription game of £8.99 a month untill he added all the purchase's up he was making, in 3 months he had made over a years worth of subscription time purchase's as well as the requirement to buy thge game at full price. I laughed, he wasnt pleased at that.
I havent played in awhile but last checked I didnt see anything that gave anyone anything let alone an advantage.
But you can blame them selling stuff on the other games that have done it and continue ot do it and continue to keep players and continue to make money.
The 'outrage' over games selling things in game is nonsense. That ship sailed along time ago, there will never ever be another game made that wont sell things (besides the game itself) for money.
People are just going to have to use their own judgement on what they feel is acceptable and what isnt.
Eventually there will be so many different 'factions' of game youll need a cheat card to keep track of them all. basically free to play and buy to play then casual pay to win, hardcore pay to win, cosmetics sales, gambling sales, pay for 'convenience', and on and on and on.
Now your view maybe shaped by how things play out in the US. Elsewhere not the case. Others countries not the case; no prohibition either (good example of the fine line though).
Free will vs. the responsibility people have to each other - whether that is helping individuals who need help or preventing individuals doing harm to others.
Which takes us full circle in some respects.
Zenimax is not free to do what it wants. Like any companies it is bound by laws. Easy to say that companies should be able to do what they want but sex, nudity, violence, religious bigotry and US flag burning? There are limits. Actually not about the flag burning but that might not sell well in the US. You ,ight say that that is a self regulating law.
And populism - which drives explicit and self regulating laws is what this comes down to. As it stands RNG boxes are accepted maybe a better word would be tolerated - providing that minors are not placed at risk.
But there are laws against gambling with the exception of a few parts in the US. Not that I necessarily agree with those laws, but it is funny that the other things you mentioned are actually legal, but gambling is not (for the most part).
I know they need to get money somehow...but gambling boxes sucks.
It´s lazy and expensive! And you won´t get that awesome loot even paying a sub so it sucks double!