"Wealthy people do dumb things with money because they can afford to. That's what rich people do! Yah! I'm smaht, I'll be rich one day and show you poors how to do it!"
Wealthy people that do stupid things with their money don't stay rich long. The guy who owns IKEA is richest in Sweden and he still counts every penny. Many poor people waste all they get and stay poor.
Of course some rich people seems to stay rich even if they spend their money on stuff like presidential campaigns and other insanely expensive things. Not sure about the math around that...
How much you have doesn't matter, how much you make matters much more. If you make six figures, you can blow all your money on whatever you want, because you will just get more. You'll get what a poor person makes in an entire year in the first two calendar months.
To title: Millennials are much more accepting of paying for things than my generation, or at least people around my age +/-5 years. It's the norm for them, and they are far more capitalistic than we are/were. BTW, words like trigger should not be used in jest or derision. It's disrespectful and ignorant. As is using it as an excuse to avoid uncomfortable discourse.
Talonsin said: Having the money and seeing value in a product is two completely different things.
They are the same thing, the value is determined by your disposable money.
That is just ridiculous. If I come by your house on your payday and offer to sell you a can of coke for $1000 according to you it means as long as you have $1000 in disposable income, you will buy it. Value and price are completely different. I'm sure you can afford to play WoW or TSW but you might not be because you dont see the value in those games.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I'm so over all of this millennials this, millennials that BS. Things are the way they are because we made them this way. Seriously though, I'd rather beat the dead 'sand box' horse than blame our problems on people that haven't been around long enough to produce a sun dried $#!@.
The perceived problem will be fixed when something else becomes profitable. Ironically, it will most likely be the millennials that find that something.
I don't want free games, I want fair business. If your company is targeting for profit margins beyond the quality of the content, be prepared to get called out. I spend money on hobbies based on the quality of the product or entertainment I'm receiving.
If any company expects more money a year from me than they are getting, they better add gameplay experiences worthy of that money. Purchases should not just increase power levels, or give quality of life additions that should've been part of a good design in the first place.
I'm not entirely against free to play games, as long as it's community of players want it. However, those players that do want free to play need to understand that devs need to pay their bills just like everyone else, so you should expect to pay for something. That's why free to play in itself is just a marketing ploy to get players in, and hope they spend later. In practice it just creates haves, and have nots, which leads to an unstable playerbase.
Many companies are not interested in long term stable franchises anymore though, they are just wanting to get in make as much cash as possible and get out. Then they go buy their hair salons, and invest in Nigerian satin mills.
I think the reason the OP assumes Millennials are the ones using the term "monetization" is because it's a new commonly-used word when talking about MMOs.
It wasn't commonly used a few years ago because there was no need to- MMOs were pretty much sub-only.
Nowadays we have the pleasure of discussing all the unique and clever ways Dev try to squeeze money out of us in replacement of subscriptions.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I think there is a disconnect between some players and their view on monetization because it's a form of entertainment for the player, while still a business to the developer because game development is of course a business. I don't think this is as much a generational issue as it is a frame of reference issue. If one is used to working, paying bills and understanding the "value of a <insert currency here>", it should be relatable that those working in game development need the same thing. Those who always want F2P and decry any forms of "greedy" monetization should be asked if they would want their company to run on the same system of income. I imagine most would not.
From this point the creeping issue of P2W comes in, or how far the monetization should go, which I don't agree with but has it's own balancing factor depending on the region it's exposed to. In the West it's frowned upon and can hurt the company but in the East it seems to be more accepted and not have negative impact.
At the end of the day there are real people with real families getting a real paychecks in an industry that is already economically volatile. No matter what generation you're a part of remembering this when ranting about something like a sub fee or cosmetic boxes I think is important.
I think there is a disconnect between some players and their view on monetization because it's a form of entertainment for the player, while still a business to the developer because game development is of course a business. I don't think this is as much a generational issue as it is a frame of reference issue. If one is used to working, paying bills and understanding the "value of a <insert currency here>", it should be relatable that those working in game development need the same thing. Those who always want F2P and decry any forms of "greedy" monetization should be asked if they would want their company to run on the same system of income. I imagine most would not.
From this point the creeping issue of P2W comes in, or how far the monetization should go, which I don't agree with but has it's own balancing factor depending on the region it's exposed to. In the West it's frowned upon and can hurt the company but in the East it seems to be more accepted and not have negative impact.
At the end of the day there are real people with real families getting a real paychecks in an industry that is already economically volatile. No matter what generation you're a part of remembering this when ranting about something like a sub fee or cosmetic boxes I think is important.
Greedy is an opinion though, players who join on the notion of a free game often will buy little other than the ability to win.
I think there is a disconnect between some players and their view on monetization because it's a form of entertainment for the player, while still a business to the developer because game development is of course a business. I don't think this is as much a generational issue as it is a frame of reference issue. If one is used to working, paying bills and understanding the "value of a <insert currency here>", it should be relatable that those working in game development need the same thing. Those who always want F2P and decry any forms of "greedy" monetization should be asked if they would want their company to run on the same system of income. I imagine most would not.
From this point the creeping issue of P2W comes in, or how far the monetization should go, which I don't agree with but has it's own balancing factor depending on the region it's exposed to. In the West it's frowned upon and can hurt the company but in the East it seems to be more accepted and not have negative impact.
At the end of the day there are real people with real families getting a real paychecks in an industry that is already economically volatile. No matter what generation you're a part of remembering this when ranting about something like a sub fee or cosmetic boxes I think is important.
Greedy is an opinion though, players who join on the notion of a free game often will buy little other than the ability to win.
Players who expect to play for free, are greedy as well.
Greed isn't an opinion, it's something that's inside all of us. You're born with it and as you grow up hopefully you learn how to control it.
Sorry but last time i checked we dont owe companies squat
If they release something that isnt completely shit then I may be willing to open my wallet. Until then, i will put that aside for games that deserve the cash.
Most people by the time they get to middle age have figured out how the World goes round.
The ones who don't are lost causes.
...that's what I said - lost causes ranting about "P2W and other nonsense.
The ones that "figured out how world goes around" have no problem with cash shops, F2P and alike "inequality".
Na....
The "lost causes" are the ones who are old enough to know better, but have to be supported by society because of their irresponsible life decisions.
What does this have to do with game monetization? At least attempt to stick to the topic at hand... Internet bills, costly gaming PCs, etc... Are out of most of those folks range in terms of expenses, the poor folks I know are lucky enough to have a used 360 hooked to a 20 inch TV . Let alone having money to support the f2p method. They are in no way the intended audience.
I have to agree with Gdemami here as it's mostly the older audience that just seem oblivious or outright hostile to the ideas of commerce and how monetization trends work. They're dollars are no longer sought, their popular trends have been passed by.
Most of the younger generation don't even play MMOs let alone have much of an opinion on f2p vs P2P. It's also not like they're any less willing to pay for their entertainment. They just like to pay differently and on different things. In a lot of ways they like to pay more for their luxuries. When we were young we went for the dollar (slice of pizza) as an on the run snack, they go for the 20 dollar one (expensive drinks, and artisan delis). We had a non expensive beeper they have state of the art phones and pads.
So it's certainly not an issue of freeloader (mils) vs the spender (older crowd). They certainly spend. And they spend a lot on even rudimentary things.
Where I'd split with Gdemami is that F2P is a direct result of the older gen who actually played MMOs in abundance at their height, as well as a result of their changing lifestyles. Regardless of you or anyone else's anecdotal reality that posts here. We're most likely the exception not the rule in most gaming situations. Most aren't going to pay a sub for something they have little time to devote to. Hence F2P is perfect for that type of crowd.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's quite simple really and it has nothing to do with affordability.
We enjoy features in games that are all about enhancing the game play. When we notice a developer spending an inordinate amount of time adding "features" that are not about the game play but instead transparent mechanisms for extracting money from the players we tend to get pissed.
I'd gladly pay a larger amount up front or monthly if they just leave the game play the fuck alone and have it be all about game fun.
It's like HBO & Netflix vs. commercial TV for me. I rather pay a monthly fee for those than have to sit through all the fucking narrative interruptions in commercial TV dramas.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Where I'd split with Gdemami is that F2P is a direct result of the older gen who actually played MMOs in abundance at their height, as well as a result of their changing lifestyles.
I do not think I implied any of such thing.
Payment model changed mostly due increased market competition - subscription no longer worked with that many titles available. Although I assume it indeed fits better the shift towards more casual play.
Where I'd split with Gdemami is that F2P is a direct result of the older gen who actually played MMOs in abundance at their height, as well as a result of their changing lifestyles.
I do not think I implied any of such thing.
Payment model changed mostly due increased market competition - subscription no longer worked with that many titles available. Although I assume it indeed fits better the shift towards more casual play.
I guess I worded that wrong, that's where I think the change started. I didn't mean to imply that's what you were saying.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
laserit said: Because you can afford something, means you just pay? No questions asked?
Fuck... I'd sure like more customers with that frame of mind.
Sure you will ask, but you won't question the price...obviously.
So you just go into a car lot and pay sticker price?
Really?
Respectfully:
What country do you live in?
I think he's that guy who watches TV for the commercials
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Pay to not die microtransactions are one of the things that bothers me most.
It is so very easy to make something so you spend say 45 minutes of your time on junk mobs then you fight the boss. You get it down to 25% health and die (and it is pretty much set up so that is likely to happen). You are presented with 2 choices. 1 -- no reward, back to town. 2 -- pay $1 and continue the fight. It is never not worth 45 minutes of your time really to not pay that $1. Then you find you are paying more per month than you would ever pay for a subscription.
Comments
Really?
Respectfully:
What country do you live in?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Of course some rich people seems to stay rich even if they spend their money on stuff like presidential campaigns and other insanely expensive things. Not sure about the math around that...
To title: Millennials are much more accepting of paying for things than my generation, or at least people around my age +/-5 years. It's the norm for them, and they are far more capitalistic than we are/were. BTW, words like trigger should not be used in jest or derision. It's disrespectful and ignorant. As is using it as an excuse to avoid uncomfortable discourse.
The perceived problem will be fixed when something else becomes profitable. Ironically, it will most likely be the millennials that find that something.
If any company expects more money a year from me than they are getting, they better add gameplay experiences worthy of that money. Purchases should not just increase power levels, or give quality of life additions that should've been part of a good design in the first place.
I'm not entirely against free to play games, as long as it's community of players want it. However, those players that do want free to play need to understand that devs need to pay their bills just like everyone else, so you should expect to pay for something. That's why free to play in itself is just a marketing ploy to get players in, and hope they spend later. In practice it just creates haves, and have nots, which leads to an unstable playerbase.
Many companies are not interested in long term stable franchises anymore though, they are just wanting to get in make as much cash as possible and get out. Then they go buy their hair salons, and invest in Nigerian satin mills.
It wasn't commonly used a few years ago because there was no need to- MMOs were pretty much sub-only.
Nowadays we have the pleasure of discussing all the unique and clever ways Dev try to squeeze money out of us in replacement of subscriptions.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Value cannot exist without a price(money) and naturally, more money you have, more things you can buy as well as you can afford to pay higher price.
IMHO being able to afford more things and being able to pay a higher price or any price for that matter, cheapens the value.
Easy come easy go.
It is the things that are hardest to achieve, the things that are the hardest to get. Those are the things that we value the most.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I think there is a disconnect between some players and their view on monetization because it's a form of entertainment for the player, while still a business to the developer because game development is of course a business. I don't think this is as much a generational issue as it is a frame of reference issue. If one is used to working, paying bills and understanding the "value of a <insert currency here>", it should be relatable that those working in game development need the same thing. Those who always want F2P and decry any forms of "greedy" monetization should be asked if they would want their company to run on the same system of income. I imagine most would not.
From this point the creeping issue of P2W comes in, or how far the monetization should go, which I don't agree with but has it's own balancing factor depending on the region it's exposed to. In the West it's frowned upon and can hurt the company but in the East it seems to be more accepted and not have negative impact.
At the end of the day there are real people with real families getting a real paychecks in an industry that is already economically volatile. No matter what generation you're a part of remembering this when ranting about something like a sub fee or cosmetic boxes I think is important.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Greed isn't an opinion, it's something that's inside all of us. You're born with it and as you grow up hopefully you learn how to control it.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
If they release something that isnt completely shit then I may be willing to open my wallet. Until then, i will put that aside for games that deserve the cash.
I have to agree with Gdemami here as it's mostly the older audience that just seem oblivious or outright hostile to the ideas of commerce and how monetization trends work. They're dollars are no longer sought, their popular trends have been passed by.
Most of the younger generation don't even play MMOs let alone have much of an opinion on f2p vs P2P. It's also not like they're any less willing to pay for their entertainment. They just like to pay differently and on different things. In a lot of ways they like to pay more for their luxuries. When we were young we went for the dollar (slice of pizza) as an on the run snack, they go for the 20 dollar one (expensive drinks, and artisan delis). We had a non expensive beeper they have state of the art phones and pads.
So it's certainly not an issue of freeloader (mils) vs the spender (older crowd). They certainly spend. And they spend a lot on even rudimentary things.
Where I'd split with Gdemami is that F2P is a direct result of the older gen who actually played MMOs in abundance at their height, as well as a result of their changing lifestyles. Regardless of you or anyone else's anecdotal reality that posts here. We're most likely the exception not the rule in most gaming situations. Most aren't going to pay a sub for something they have little time to devote to. Hence F2P is perfect for that type of crowd.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
We enjoy features in games that are all about enhancing the game play. When we notice a developer spending an inordinate amount of time adding "features" that are not about the game play but instead transparent mechanisms for extracting money from the players we tend to get pissed.
I'd gladly pay a larger amount up front or monthly if they just leave the game play the fuck alone and have it be all about game fun.
It's like HBO & Netflix vs. commercial TV for me. I rather pay a monthly fee for those than have to sit through all the fucking narrative interruptions in commercial TV dramas.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Payment model changed mostly due increased market competition - subscription no longer worked with that many titles available. Although I assume it indeed fits better the shift towards more casual play.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It is so very easy to make something so you spend say 45 minutes of your time on junk mobs then you fight the boss. You get it down to 25% health and die (and it is pretty much set up so that is likely to happen). You are presented with 2 choices. 1 -- no reward, back to town. 2 -- pay $1 and continue the fight. It is never not worth 45 minutes of your time really to not pay that $1. Then you find you are paying more per month than you would ever pay for a subscription.