So after taking my time somewhat and getting 110 on warlock, I'll say that I see this losing subs faster than WoD. Leveling alone felt inferior to Draenor, but that might be a personal preference. The artifact grind is very tedious and will eventually put too many people off if they want to either play on multiple specs or multi characters. Couple that with how imperitive some relics are for some specs and honestly it wont surprise me if people start locking others out for raids until they have a certain number of traits in their artifact for a specific spec or get passed over for those that have massive amounts of traits in various artifacts. GG Blizzard.
Leveling was the only good part of WoD though, the rest was pretty much garbage. Artifact is definitely a grind, but almost everything in an mmo is a grind. Not much different than say, the legendary cloak questline. Also, artifact knowledge will help increase artifact power gain. Relics seem easy to come by so far, and not very varied. I've been getting the same ones for the most part on my paladin. I just equip the ones that benefit my spec and increase the ilvl of the weapon the most. As for raid exclusion, that will always happen regardless of what weapon or system is in place. Remember gear score or "need x role for y raid, must link achievement"?
The main difference between ilvl and this artifact system is that ilvl can be easily bypassed over time, such as pvp gear to increase your ilvl to a reasonable number (could easily go from 600 to 700 in a single day later on in WoD's life span after getting 100). Seeing as you need a lot of power to upgrade even 1 artifact, its too much of a catch up in comparison later on. Only way to counter this is if they have the 800 power items drop pretty easy or be able to buy them via vendors or something.
Been playing like mad since release. Been super surprised by the polish of all the systems. They took WoD's leveling experience and made it even better. The level scaling means all the content remains challenging throughout the questing experience. So much so that when you get to Suramar, I suggest grinding a few dungeon runs so your gear is a bit more up to snuff, or you may find some mob encounters to be more than challenging. I have died several more times than I ever did in WoD or MoP.
The zones are beautiful, the order halls are great, the story missions are involving and relevant, and there are many "side quests" that feel similar to the main progression line. All in all I have been very impressed. Plus DH is such a fun class to play I feel it will definitely be my main through most of this expansion. The environments are gorgeous, probably the best they have ever done. I really dig the new combat systems and animations, the rotations feel fluid and never feel boring to execute (on my DH anyways, will have to level my alts to get a better idea of other classes). Artifact power is a nice thing to work on grinding out late game, and multiple specs are totally possible with the world quest rewards and the order hall missions, I already have my Vengeance Spec artifact, and I will work on leveling it once I finish the base content in the game.
I totally Recommend this game. And please ignore Wizardry, his opinions are never unbiased when it comes to anything Blizzard releases. As far as he is concerned, its always crap, no matter what, and he apparently has a better pulse on what makes a good game than the people that do this for a living.
WoW is only now supporting multi-tagging and finally has some form of alternate combat advancement?
They used to pioneer those kinds of ideas, or within months swipe a new idea from another game and make it better. Those things have been common for over 5 years...
I don't know where all this subscription money is going, but it doesn't seem like much is going back into the game. Has Blizz given up on MMO's so completely?
So far it's good and engaging, levelings great, but I had that same feeling with WoD, So I'll see what endgame offers to make a full judgement, but until then i'll take my time and enjoy the journey.
One thing I would say I dislike, is the class order mission table, it's not as distributive as it was in WoD, but I don't like that my class campaign is locked to it, in truth, I feel I should be roaming the world doing the missions, like what you have to do with your spec artifact, wish they expanded on that more. Would love to roam doing more missions designed for my spec, don't like that have to wait 16 hrs just to continue it
Funny I actually think the cons on your list about artifacts are pros ;P Some false information as well. Blood of Sargeras is easy as hell to get. I am a double crafter and have no issues whatsoever with blood. You get a TON at end game. Crafting is also VERY lucrative.
Being 100% honest right now with this....but...now that MOBAs and other type of "pick up and go" games are doing so popular I don't have the time or patience to deal with MMORPGs much anymore imho. I mean the long lengthy process of leveling and such. I think LoL was the first of its type of system of leveling for MOBAs and started a good trend. 1 week or 1 month grind for an item where I could just log and have just as much fun in a MOBA? Sorry but I quite value my time and no...I'll pickup the MOBA and learn to love it.
That's great (though why wouldn't you be 100% honest? Seems unnecessary) but since people here presumably like mmo's, it seems an odd statement.
For instance, I have no interest in MOBA's at all but I love the general "thrust" of MMO's, especially if the leveling is long.
I used to hate MOBAs, but they have gotten better and MMOs have gotten worse. So, now I enjoy MOBAs.
Wouldn't it be better to... I don't know... give it time? Sure legion looks great right now but so did WoD when it came out and that turned to be a pile of crap. Seems smarter to give a month before recommending people playing it.
On one hand I agree. I have other mmos and games I really want to do stuff in. I'm going to wait for a sale on the xpac and play for a couple of months somewhere down the road a bit.
On the other hand, there is something to be said for playing with others on release when the content is fresh and everyone is exploring it together. I would recommend a WoW fan get the xpac and play now if that stuff is important to you.
I have no interest in WoW, but I can definitely agree that some of the most fun I've had in games is exploring new expansion content with other folks.
Unfortunately, nowadays, there isn't much exploration left. Most people probably know everything about Legion before even playing it. Be it from video streams, playing the beta, web articles, etc., there isn't that much mystery with all the coverage.
Agreed, Recommended. This is the best expac since WotLK.
It depends if you compare the stories or the mechanics. I preferred the class skills and talents of WotLK. I'm actually liking Legion's story so far, but Arthas' storyline is still amazing after all these years.
After leveling to 107 so far, the Artifact "grind" is real, especially if you're trying to get all the artifact weapons for each class. I'm not sure if we need to max out each weapon to unlock the skin, but there's weapons for each spec, for each class. You do the math.
I love the non-linear choice of choosing which zone to level in. It was long overdue. My only problem, is that crafting professions require you to go different zones when you've already chosen one, and there's really no way to get to them, besides the old fashioned way by traveling on ground. Not only that, but they send you in dungeons, and the storylines are confusing since you haven't finished the zone to keep up with it. It's just more unnecessary confusion.
You can choose to go to a different zone by flying there. Flight paths to each zone are open from the start.
I give it a few weeks before people realize it's actually the same shit as Warlords of Draenor, only it's hidden better thanks to so many plot threads finally being resolved and the stupid Artifacts [yeah, i'm the Ashbringer!!! Same with the thousands of other Paladins.....but wait, i'm also the Deathlord, charged by the Lich King himself to fight the Legion!!!.......and apparently there's thousands of Deathlords besides me....ok.....]
PvP to unlock Honor Traits and levels= No I have to quest for pvp too
No again! You don't have to quest at all to max out your honer talents or your artifact weapon. Every time you win a BG or Arena you get honor and artifact power.
This is actually not true. You do have to quest in order to max out your artifact weapon. You can't open up the third relic without completing the quest line for your class, and that quest line involves dungeons. You need to open that to get higher level relics which increases your artifact weapon's level. (I play a disc priest and this is how it is for me. I am assuming it's similar for other classes.)
This is one of the things that has turned me off of the game. I played WoW for BG's and world pvp. That's what was fun for me. Now we are forced to run dungeons (even for learning trade skills).
They even took away the pvp vendors and made it ridiculous to get a full set of gear with the rng system for rewards for winning. It's pretty damn rare to get a piece of actual gear for winning matches now and that's the main way you can get gear through pvp, but you have no choice in what you get, it's just random now. So your best bet is to run dungeons. (There are the world quests too, but the ones I went to check out were
empty.. maybe that will get better with time when more players are 110.)
Enjoying it so far but a gripe: played my Mage since 2005 and I'm pretty good at Mage-ing. Rolled a DH and in 2 hours of play I can do 2 x the DPS of my main.
And that right there is cause for concern, considering the way the first "hero class" was introduced in WotLK, how enjoyable the class abilities were at the time, and how quickly they restructured the class into a hot "nerf'd" mess.
It's as if they don't bother to balance the new class initially because they want the "Oh that sounds like fun, I think I'll try it!" consumer to dive in for the box sale and at least one to two months of subscriptions before Blizzard utterly ruins the experience, and this is usually due to PvP imbalance.
Much like your powerful Demon Hunter, DKs started out overly powerful and fun to play, and I'm saying this from a PvE perspective, NOT a PvP one. It's the PvP imbalance which caused the outcry which in turn ruined the experience.
It's the farce of "Hero Classes" being introduced that Blizzard dangled in front of WoW fans before WotLK was released---and failed to follow through on---that screwed up new class introductions and their subsequent "balance" issues.
I'll avoid this turkey and save myself the frustration of being disappointed in yet another half-a**ed expansion.
It's a mediocre expansion to be honest. In every aspect. It's a little bit better than WoD, but what really makes it feel mediocre, are the modern MMOs. If you're not heavily invested into WoW (multiple years worth of hours) then ESO or FFXIV are a much much better choices.
Worth the full price? Well if CoD is worth 60$ to some or Overwatch 40$ then yeah it's worth it, othervise I'd wait till it's something like 20$. Also keep in mind it's definitively not worth the Sub cost, so if you can afford tokens do that.
And I feel the exact opposite. I started WoW with Pandaria in 2012 left after WoD. Legion is the best expansion I've experienced in every aspect. WoD had a good idea but was marred by the garrison removing the need to connect with the world. But the quest design, things to do, look, etc was great. Legion just built on that and took it to another level. Level scaling alone changes a lot of things and modernizes the game in a good way.
I have both ESO and FFXIV and didn't like either of them.
With the 60 dollar purchase of the expansion you will at the VERY LEAST get a full week of content and thats being extremely aggressive, especially considering I've spent more on games that were beaten in a few days.
Enjoying it so far but a gripe: played my Mage since 2005 and I'm pretty good at Mage-ing. Rolled a DH and in 2 hours of play I can do 2 x the DPS of my main.
And that right there is cause for concern, considering the way the first "hero class" was introduced in WotLK, how enjoyable the class abilities were at the time, and how quickly they restructured the class into a hot "nerf'd" mess.
It's as if they don't bother to balance the new class initially because they want the "Oh that sounds like fun, I think I'll try it!" consumer to dive in for the box sale and at least one to two months of subscriptions before Blizzard utterly ruins the experience, and this is usually due to PvP imbalance.
Much like your powerful Demon Hunter, DKs started out overly powerful and fun to play, and I'm saying this from a PvE perspective, NOT a PvP one. It's the PvP imbalance which caused the outcry which in turn ruined the experience.
It's the farce of "Hero Classes" being introduced that Blizzard dangled in front of WoW fans before WotLK was released---and failed to follow through on---that screwed up new class introductions and their subsequent "balance" issues.
I'll avoid this turkey and save myself the frustration of being disappointed in yet another half-a**ed expansion.
Except that the Demon Hunter isn't remotely OP or even close to being the best DPS in raids. DH's are indeed good in aoe situations, this is actually where they shine. In single target environments, they are middle of the pack.
The problem adamlotus75 is running into is that mages aren't really all that good this xpack. Fire does pretty well, but Frost and Arcane aren't doing great in terms of DPS. Many of the specs feel undertuned, or have some mechanics that are holding back their dps. In turn, that makes the leveling experience for those specs a little more frustrating.
All of that aside, the new systems in place for Legion are great. Love the mob scaling so that you can never out level a zone. All of the zones, with the exception of Azsuna, are great. I honestly feel that the color palette of Azsuna is what makes it so annoying. That and how the quests in the region don't seem to flow well across the zone. The artifact weapons are fun. Class halls are just garrisons lite, which I could take it or leave it, having the app is nice. World quests are neat. Stormheim with the grappling hook mechanic is a lotta fun actually.
Legion is a good xpack. Much better than WoD was. Hopefully, Blizzard can keep it going.
I caved to pure pressure and decided to reactivate my World of Warcraft account over the weekend. I haven't purchased Legion (yet) because I wanted to see how my characters play with all the class changes first. So far I'm pretty happy overall with the new class design.
I guess for me World of Warcraft is like an abusive ex-girlfriend who's great in the sack. In between love affairs she's a real bitch, but during the height of ecstasy it almost seems worth it to deal with the rest of the bullshit, so I keep getting pulled back into the relationship!
Game was a nice diversion but I don't do subs anymore.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Game was a nice diversion but I don't do subs anymore.
So buy a sub with gold? I made enough gold in 6 days playing to buy two months worth.
I'll stick with games that have no such requirements. Thanks anyway for the advice.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
This is the first expansion I bought and I'm thinking what alts to level next since WotLK. I don't think it's a groundbreaking expansion, but it meets standards of what average players expect from WoW, so far at least. And I believe that's a huge win for a very old MMO.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Comments
The zones are beautiful, the order halls are great, the story missions are involving and relevant, and there are many "side quests" that feel similar to the main progression line. All in all I have been very impressed. Plus DH is such a fun class to play I feel it will definitely be my main through most of this expansion. The environments are gorgeous, probably the best they have ever done. I really dig the new combat systems and animations, the rotations feel fluid and never feel boring to execute (on my DH anyways, will have to level my alts to get a better idea of other classes). Artifact power is a nice thing to work on grinding out late game, and multiple specs are totally possible with the world quest rewards and the order hall missions, I already have my Vengeance Spec artifact, and I will work on leveling it once I finish the base content in the game.
I totally Recommend this game. And please ignore Wizardry, his opinions are never unbiased when it comes to anything Blizzard releases. As far as he is concerned, its always crap, no matter what, and he apparently has a better pulse on what makes a good game than the people that do this for a living.
They used to pioneer those kinds of ideas, or within months swipe a new idea from another game and make it better. Those things have been common for over 5 years...
I don't know where all this subscription money is going, but it doesn't seem like much is going back into the game. Has Blizz given up on MMO's so completely?
One thing I would say I dislike, is the class order mission table, it's not as distributive as it was in WoD, but I don't like that my class campaign is locked to it, in truth, I feel I should be roaming the world doing the missions, like what you have to do with your spec artifact, wish they expanded on that more. Would love to roam doing more missions designed for my spec, don't like that have to wait 16 hrs just to continue it
I used to hate MOBAs, but they have gotten better and MMOs have gotten worse. So, now I enjoy MOBAs.
Unfortunately, nowadays, there isn't much exploration left. Most people probably know everything about Legion before even playing it. Be it from video streams, playing the beta, web articles, etc., there isn't that much mystery with all the coverage.
You can choose to go to a different zone by flying there. Flight paths to each zone are open from the start.
This is one of the things that has turned me off of the game. I played WoW for BG's and world pvp. That's what was fun for me. Now we are forced to run dungeons (even for learning trade skills).
They even took away the pvp vendors and made it ridiculous to get a full set of gear with the rng system for rewards for winning. It's pretty damn rare to get a piece of actual gear for winning matches now and that's the main way you can get gear through pvp, but you have no choice in what you get, it's just random now. So your best bet is to run dungeons. (There are the world quests too, but the ones I went to check out were empty.. maybe that will get better with time when more players are 110.)
Its best to visit it last, i went Highmountain - Val- Azsuna - Steim
Azsuna is good after you are already on a roll to just swoop in do the semi circle and cash in on that Xp in under 30 minutes.
And that right there is cause for concern, considering the way the first "hero class" was introduced in WotLK, how enjoyable the class abilities were at the time, and how quickly they restructured the class into a hot "nerf'd" mess.
It's as if they don't bother to balance the new class initially because they want the "Oh that sounds like fun, I think I'll try it!" consumer to dive in for the box sale and at least one to two months of subscriptions before Blizzard utterly ruins the experience, and this is usually due to PvP imbalance.
Much like your powerful Demon Hunter, DKs started out overly powerful and fun to play, and I'm saying this from a PvE perspective, NOT a PvP one. It's the PvP imbalance which caused the outcry which in turn ruined the experience.
It's the farce of "Hero Classes" being introduced that Blizzard dangled in front of WoW fans before WotLK was released---and failed to follow through on---that screwed up new class introductions and their subsequent "balance" issues.
I'll avoid this turkey and save myself the frustration of being disappointed in yet another half-a**ed expansion.
And I feel the exact opposite. I started WoW with Pandaria in 2012 left after WoD. Legion is the best expansion I've experienced in every aspect. WoD had a good idea but was marred by the garrison removing the need to connect with the world. But the quest design, things to do, look, etc was great. Legion just built on that and took it to another level. Level scaling alone changes a lot of things and modernizes the game in a good way.
I have both ESO and FFXIV and didn't like either of them.
With the 60 dollar purchase of the expansion you will at the VERY LEAST get a full week of content and thats being extremely aggressive, especially considering I've spent more on games that were beaten in a few days.
The problem adamlotus75 is running into is that mages aren't really all that good this xpack. Fire does pretty well, but Frost and Arcane aren't doing great in terms of DPS. Many of the specs feel undertuned, or have some mechanics that are holding back their dps. In turn, that makes the leveling experience for those specs a little more frustrating.
All of that aside, the new systems in place for Legion are great. Love the mob scaling so that you can never out level a zone. All of the zones, with the exception of Azsuna, are great. I honestly feel that the color palette of Azsuna is what makes it so annoying. That and how the quests in the region don't seem to flow well across the zone. The artifact weapons are fun. Class halls are just garrisons lite, which I could take it or leave it, having the app is nice. World quests are neat. Stormheim with the grappling hook mechanic is a lotta fun actually.
Legion is a good xpack. Much better than WoD was. Hopefully, Blizzard can keep it going.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I made enough gold in 6 days playing to buy two months worth.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I don't think it's a groundbreaking expansion, but it meets standards of what average players expect from WoW, so far at least. And I believe that's a huge win for a very old MMO.