Trine has the best version of classes that MMOs should incorporate

DrDread74

In Trine, which is a puzzle/platformer played co-op with up to 3 people, You can switch between the fighter, the thief and the mage at any time assuming they are still alive from the last checkpoint. You generally switch to the most appropriate character for the given situation although you can probably get though most of the puzzles using either.

The thing is, the fighter is the only one who is really effective and killing mobs, when they show up at all, and also at doing some feats of strength some puzzles require. The thief, has only the bow for combat which works at range and sometimes for utility (lighting torches) but not close range and generally isn't good at fighting. She can however use her grappling hook to do some effective and acrobatic "platforming". The Mage has NO OFFENSIVE SPELLS AT ALL, his main ability is telekinesis for moving things around the level and summoning planks, cubes and triangle platforms. He can create a box over an enemy and it will drop on them and maybe kill them but he can't even cast fireballs. He's a utilitarian mage.

In most MMOs the Fighter Thief and Mage are all COMBAT ORIENTED, all the quests usually involve creative ways of KILLING MOBS using the different sets of powers their class provides and I think that is the problem. They are just war games and not the "Role Playing Game" that they should be. Only the fighters should really fight, Only the thieves should really sneak/climb/maneuver and only the mage should "Use Magic" in handy and creative ways to solve certain problems encountered on a quest.

If more games operated this way I think they would be far more engaging and fun to play. When every game is just a different version of "DiIablo" it makes the entire class system kind of pointless.

Wizardry

Umm i am not convinced at all.

You say the Mage has no offensive spells but these classes are best of any game?Plus there is only 3 classes,i hardly say that is much effort gone into the game so far.
I see what your point is,you mention that every game is just about offensive combat with nothing else.

Well i think there is a VERY important point missed here.

If you are playing a game that is a living world and creatures,then yeah you are going to have combat.If all you want is a puzzle game to manipulate and move things around,that would NOT be a mmorpg or a living world but instead just a puzzle game.

Yes i know in real life there are real cases of puzzles but in reality,you wouldn't make a whole game based on nothing but puzzles.I can tell you ONE instance that i know of but nothing else.The pyramids and some treasure have been linked to secret pitfalls and water to sink the treasure if anyone tried to get it,similar o an Indiana Jones affair.But in reality,how often will any human run into a real life puzzle....once ,likely never?
My point is that i don't mind the odd puzzle in a mmorpg but if all puzzles then just make it a puzzle game.
I might add that you can and should have a well designed game that offers "puzzling" combat,ideas that are a tad tough to overcome,meaning you need more cunning than JUST o/p gear and o/p spells.I actually  expect game developers to make their combat intriguing and not just some easy way to get xp.

DrDread74

Wizardry said:

Umm i am not convinced at all.

You say the Mage has no offensive spells but these classes are best of any game?Plus there is only 3 classes,i hardly say that is much effort gone into the game so far.
I see what your point is,you mention that every game is just about offensive combat with nothing else.

Well i think there is a VERY important point missed here.

If you are playing a game that is a living world and creatures,then yeah you are going to have combat.If all you want is a puzzle game to manipulate and move things around,that would NOT be a mmorpg or a living world but instead just a puzzle game.

Yes i know in real life there are real cases of puzzles but in reality,you wouldn't make a whole game based on nothing but puzzles.I can tell you ONE instance that i know of but nothing else.The pyramids and some treasure have been linked to secret pitfalls and water to sink the treasure if anyone tried to get it,similar o an Indiana Jones affair.But in reality,how often will any human run into a real life puzzle....once ,likely never?
My point is that i don't mind the odd puzzle in a mmorpg but if all puzzles then just make it a puzzle game.
I might add that you can and should have a well designed game that offers "puzzling" combat,ideas that are a tad tough to overcome,meaning you need more cunning than JUST o/p gear and o/p spells.I actually  expect game developers to make their combat intriguing and not just some easy way to get xp.

You don't need a whole game based on puzzles, but you can make the game NOT only about combat. Look at any fantasy movie that has "classes" of characters in them like Conan or Lord of the Rings. They are not all fighters and the entire movie is NOT all combat sequences, because THAT WOULOD BE A DUMB MOVIE. They don't all fight but they are all given opportunities to shine in fun and exciting ways. In the Uncharted game or Indiana Jones movies its based on, there isn't that much "combat fighting" but the game and movie are very entertaining. MMOs should create games that have other non-combat "struggles" in them where other classes can shine in also.

Quizzical

That sounds vaguely similar to The Lost Vikings.

waynejr2

Quizzical said:

That sounds vaguely similar to The Lost Vikings.

I don't recall blizzard doing that in that game. But I am having recall issues so...

As far as game mechanics go, it would be ok for a game to do this.  If this became the industry standard, I would be finished with mmoRPGs.  It certainly feels like a millennial generation game mechanic to me.

Aeander

I can't support this type of game design for a multiplayer game. Everyone shouls be able to contribute uniquely to combat.

However, I can meet you halfway. I've been a supporter of class-based exploration skills. Just as I think every class should be able to uniquely contribute to combat, every class should have unique puzzle-solving and exploration skills (like vine-burning, telekinesis, water-freezing, climbing, etc.) that work with other classes to solve bigger puzzles and unlock new areas. Neverwinter has a very, very basic form of this with its treasure-finding and other such class skills, but the loot-only nature of these doesn't really create interesting gameplay. I'm wanting a step further, because I think this type of design can restore much of the lost community emphasis of the genre without going back to archaic mechanics.