I personally doubt that Blizzard had any intension to set up classic servers and if so, at least not in a reasonable time frame. They are way to slow and stubborn to give players what they want and this topic would have been dragged on and around forever.
It's a risky investment on many levels. Let's say they open only two servers, then these realms would be overrun. If they open more, maybe too many players would jump off of the main game or people would be calling for merges 6 month after. As far as i see it, classic servers would result in too much drama on every level. (pun -ha ha ha!)
What payment options would they offer? 10 years old game, missing QoL left and right... for a regular sub? We know that classic servers wouldn't come for free. Who would run two subs for two versions of the same game at the same time?
My guess is that they would rather wait out what the retention of Legion is and if people jump ship again after 4-6 month like they did in WoD, Blizzard would rather push the main game. Perhaps by extending the trial to level 60 or something.
All this threatening and releasing may or may not be a lame move, depending on anybody's personal POV, but i doubt that it affects Blizzard's decision on classic servers in any way.
Even if they were taken to court they could probably get out of it by saying that the product they paid for back then no longer exists. Similar to the reason people arent sued for ROM usage of older games and consoles.
Don't care - Legion is the best WoW has ever been. No need for Vanillia nostalgia, or its rose tinted glasses.
Definitely rose tinted glasses. Druids hated life. I had no alts. I played druid and that was it. A jack of all trades but an ace at nothing. There was nothing but crying on the forums over that class and innervate. I actually had what appeared to be a very rare experience at that time. Pissed a lot of people off when I told them. It was actually very shocking that people who I had leveled up with. Fairly decent in game friendship with. All went to shit when I started raiding with the freedom to choose my role. There were times where I really needed to be on heals especially learning. But I was never given flack about innervate. I could use it as I saw fit. It was my judgement call if I or the priest whome I was paired with got it. The 2 druids in our guild for the most part got to moonkin and even offtank in 40 mans. I tried off tanking once. Died horribly fast. LMAO. I moonkin'ed for a long time though in a caster group. Aura bonus. Other druid did better than me off tanking. I think the one time I tried it might have been a fuck up and someone let a tank die and I tried grabbing aggro to save healers and did but healers weren't ready for it. We also geared out stupidly fast. It actually agitated our raid leader sometimes. "Another piece of fucking druid gear.." But hey he was a rogue with a Thunderfury!
Edit: I will add that I never missed a raid. Neither did the other druid. The guild didn't want to over recruit people. They didn't want people waiting around in reserves feeling left out. So I guess it could be seen as a reward for being there and ready. We did have issues with people an commitments and that was always a hassle with a guild run like ours was. maybe one or 2 reserves. Not many.
Blizzard knew this was a hot topic that people have been waiting months to hear any information about. They completely avoided this topic, they didn't give us a single word at Blizzcon about legacy servers. So really this tells me they really don't care atm about legacy so Nost had to respond to calm the fire that was being stoked on their forums.
This just ruins the relation they had with Blizzard, which was basically over after they left their headquarters after the presentation of the server they had. They kept the code to keep it as a leverage, which Blizzard really never seen it as one. The code is a collaboration of years of people adding to it, and to sue Nost devs over what so many has worked on wouldn't make sense, there's already tons of servers running vanilla out there.
Damn, what a bunch of crybabies. Blizz was/is busy with their launch of Legion and maintaining a rather intense patch schedule for them. While this may have been on the table, there was no way they're were going to be catering to the Vanilla fans for quite some time, and especially no way they were going to be revealing anything about it at Blizzcon while they still have Legion momentum.
Oh well, I'm just glad I am not one of the people railing for a vanilla server. The disappointment right now would be pretty huge.
Blizzard doesn't need vanilla servers nor vanilla community to remain highly profitable.
The huge disappointment of vanilla community would have no effect on Blizzards profits.
Yup. That's more or less what I was saying just without bringing up the profit itself. lol Though the huge disappointment I was talking about was not aimed at Blizzard, but at Nostalrius, since they shot themselves in the foot with this.
Don't care - Legion is the best WoW has ever been. No need for Vanillia nostalgia, or its rose tinted glasses.
Everyone has their own opinion, but the people that want the old ways back seem to be all wearing rose tinted glasses. This is no different than replaying older games that we grew up loving on old Sega or Nintendo consoles.
I hardly see this as news. There are literally hundreds of private WOW servers and even a ton of 'vanilla' ones. I think this is much to do about nothing.
45 comments within 2 hours says it's news. I'd say it's "a lot of ado about something".
Not really. It is a slow news day
I see. So the relevance of Blizzard itself inviting these folks to their campus, something they've never done with any one of the "hundreds of private WOW servers'" admins, making a move that seems to be in direct conflict with the spirit of the discussion they held ostensibly in their own words, "on behalf of all vanilla WoW fans", ISN'T news even on a busy day? Huh, go figure.
What I think is too many sites are giving these guys too much press. Sometimes it is not about the clicks and responses but the relevancy of giving press to those that do not deserve it huh, go figure.
I find the story interesting, as it says a lot for high profile private servers in general.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well that is one epic way to fail it all up. If Blizzard was considering it, and I'm sure there were, they definitely aren't now. This was not the way to go about it. I swear the more I hear about these Nost devs the more I think they are a bunch of self-entitled babies. "We didn't get what we wanted so now we are just gonna throw a hissy fit".
I hope Blizzard sues them into the ground so far their great grand kids are still paying the debt off.
Also edit to add: I hope Blizzard sues every single person that takes this code and opens a server. Time to put a stop to this crap. I understand why some private servers exist. SWGEmu is because SWG shut down. But WoW is still going. It may not be how some like it, but it is going and going strong. Personally I love how WoW is now. I don't remember vanilla being as good as some of these people scream it was.
Translation: I don't like vanilla so anyone who does is a self-entitled baby because they don't see things as I do.
I think there are plenty of "babies" on both sides of this issue.
No, you are wrong. I don't care if their is a vanilla server...From Blizzard. These assholes stole Blizzards IP and assets. Personally if I was Blizzard I would be suing these jackwads. Stealing someones work is not the way to go about doing things. This was theft by the Devs of Nost. I don't give a shit if you say it isn't, it is.
Oh and I played Vanilla for a long time. So to say I don't or didn't like it is an assumption on your part...you know what they say about that. I just think WoW is fine the way it is. Rose-tinted glasses and all that.
Blizzard on the other hand has been making a living off the Warhammer IP since....well since forever. so, oh well.
Well, everyone has been making a living off Dungeons and Dragons IP since.... well since forever. Go figure.
Like @Grakulen pointed out before, the Nostalrius guys just failed on how to do business here.
I don't need to research shit. Do they work for Blizzard? Do they have anything to do with Blizzard? No is the answer to both of those questions. They have Blizzards game on a private server, that is theft. I don't give a shit what piss ant excuse you try to rationalize in your head. It is theft of an IP to "make it" your own. I don't give two shits if they have worked on this for 6 or 12 years. It isn't their IP. That is pretty much the end of that. They stole from Blizzard, and I for one hope Blizzard does everything they legally can to ruin these people's life.
Blizzard on the other hand has been making a living off the Warhammer IP since....well since forever. so, oh well.
Well, everyone has been making a living off Dungeons and Dragons IP since.... well since forever. Go figure.
Like @Grakulen pointed out before, the Nostalrius guys just failed on how to do business here.
D&D didn't invent most of the stuff you're referring to, it was just one of many properties that commercialized/popularized it in the 70's.
On the other hand WC is a pretty blatant rip off of Warhammer, and SC is a Blatant rip of 40k (not by accident either..). They were originally trying to make a Warhammer game but failed to acquire the license. So they decided to change the backstory up and called it their own, rather than waste the work already done... The rest as they say is history.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Blizzard on the other hand has been making a living off the Warhammer IP since....well since forever. so, oh well.
Well, everyone has been making a living off Dungeons and Dragons IP since.... well since forever. Go figure.
Like @Grakulen pointed out before, the Nostalrius guys just failed on how to do business here.
D&D didn't invent most of the stuff you're referring to, it was just one of many properties that commercialized/popularized it in the 70's.
On the other hand WC is a pretty blatant rip off of Warhammer, and SC is a Blatant rip of 40k (not by accident either..). They were originally trying to make a Warhammer game but failed to acquire the license. So they decided to change the backstory up and called it their own, rather than waste the work already done... The rest as they say is history.
Like all Blizzard products, they take ideas from someone else and do it better.
I don't need to research shit. Do they work for Blizzard? Do they have anything to do with Blizzard? No is the answer to both of those questions. They have Blizzards game on a private server, that is theft. I don't give a shit what piss ant excuse you try to rationalize in your head. It is theft of an IP to "make it" your own. I don't give two shits if they have worked on this for 6 or 12 years. It isn't their IP. That is pretty much the end of that. They stole from Blizzard, and I for one hope Blizzard does everything they legally can to ruin these people's life.
What's with the overreaction? You have stocks in blizzard? There is no valid reason to be this passionate about a company that just wants to make money. Not unless you're being paid.
If they were copying the current wow, word for word, code for code, and giving it away for free then I would understand (partly) but how is a buggy vanilla server with a few thousand players going to have any effect on the population/profitability of the current game? Are you that offended that a few autistic people who can't let go of the past just want to play on their little hug-box server away from all the "casuals"?
I haven't been keeping up with all of this as much as I've wanted to but I don't understand why everyone on blizzards side is so against a small vanilla server existing, other than the fact it's "stealing" which is (other than the assets) debatable.
Personally I believe they still have this as an option on the table. I don't think their little meetup was just for show but between gauging interest and the cost-to-profit ratio, not to mention "Soon" they are probably going to take their sweet time before releasing any information either way about it.
Blizzard on the other hand has been making a living off the Warhammer IP since....well since forever. so, oh well.
Well, everyone has been making a living off Dungeons and Dragons IP since.... well since forever. Go figure.
Like @Grakulen pointed out before, the Nostalrius guys just failed on how to do business here.
D&D didn't invent most of the stuff you're referring to, it was just one of many properties that commercialized/popularized it in the 70's.
On the other hand WC is a pretty blatant rip off of Warhammer, and SC is a Blatant rip of 40k (not by accident either..). They were originally trying to make a Warhammer game but failed to acquire the license. So they decided to change the backstory up and called it their own, rather than waste the work already done... The rest as they say is history.
Like all Blizzard products, they take ideas from someone else and do it better.
Did it better? Each to their own I suppose, but I don't think they've done anything better with their lore/setting or art, I prefer GW's approach.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
1. I think Blizzard announcing a "version" of a playable Diablo 1 within Diablo 3 shows that Blizzard is *open* to the idea of classic games. Blizzard knows that its founding playerbase is getting older and very nostalgic. If they gave me Diablo 2 in an updated form, I would play the heck out of it.
But Blizzard will do it when and if Blizzard wants to do it and in their way. And yes, part of that is to make money....they are a company after all - with owners and shareholders so that is their goal.
2. No matter how someone wants to justify it, stealing code is stealing code. It is theft. Nost will be sued and they will pay millions in fines. Blizzard will go after them with everything they got. Why? Very simple - this summer Blizzard opened a dialogue with them...Blizzard was willing to listen. And the result? A slap in the face. Nost rewarded Blizzard's listening with releasing the code. Blizzard will take this as a betrayal of good will. The result will not be pretty.
3. Vanilla WOW players wear the most rose-colored glasses in the gaming industry. They talk about how great it was but I rarely see a substantive post with details. It was great because it was new! That's it. What was great?
Broken quest lines that couldn't be completed? 40 man raids nightly when you could only get half that online? People playing unguilded alt's because they wanted to escape the pressure of raiding? PVP that amounted to /emotes across Southshore? Classes that were broken or boring to play. Talent trees that, while they had a lot of options, there was that only one build, otherwise you gimped yourself?
Sure vanilla WOW had its moments, its highlights. But those moments are in the past. You cannot revisit them or experience them again and feel the same way you did. It won't happen. What will happen - you will login to play vanilla, play for a while and remember all the bad. You will login daily for a while and then a couple times a week and then maybe once or twice.....always hoping to regain that feeling. Once you fully realize you cannot, you won't login anymore. I know because I am that person with other games. My first MMO was long before WOW and about once a year I login to that shell of a game and experience what I described. I long for those old times but must cope that I will never have those times again.
1. Blizzards updated version of D1 in D3, while cool for D3 players is half hearted at best. Anyone looking to experience and updated version of the original game aren't going to find it here. This is the same as if they simply took what little of the Vanilla content is left and made it lvl 110 (or whatever the cap is now). Not exactly what people are wanting.
2. Blizzard has no ownership over the MaNGOS open source code, of which hundreds of people have had a hand in creating and updating. Also, the Nostalrius team are no longer running a live service so they aren't actively violating any IP. What exactly do you think Blizzard is going to sue them for?
If you took the time to look into the full story you'd see there's more to it than what you posted. Your version is a gross over simplification of what actually took place and serves only to make the Nost guys out to be worse than they are. I would suggest you get your story straight, but I doubt if you really care.
3. This is just the worst excuse someone can come up with. Your memories of Vanilla WoW may be from years ago, but it's not so for many of us. Many of us were, or still are, actively playing Vanilla WoW. There's nothing rose-tinted about our views on the game, we accept and love it for what it actually is, not what we think we remember it being. We aren't blinded by nostalgia and we aren't logging into some game that's a shell of itself and trying to hump the corpse of our long dead memories.
We can and will have those times again. While everyone else waits for something that my never come we'll be doing it. Sorry that so many of you refuse to join us.
You do understand that all Blizzard has to do to win a lawsuit ageanst Nos is prove that Nos's actions caused financial harm in any way. Heck if Blizzard can sue bot makers that did nothing more then create a program that interacted with the client. I can sure fire bet that they can sue Nos for reverse engineering the clients communications (btw that is ageanst the EULA) and also providing a service for the client to connect to (even if it was in the past).
The worst part is by them doing what they have done, they have forced Blizzard to take action. Heck they allowed Nos to run for over a year before it because a issue and they ordered the close down. And that was purely because the Nos server started to cost Blizzard money and they HAD to take action. Just like this new server / op they have handed the code over to. It will be taken down just like Nos's server was.
It isn't Blizzard being a dick or anything like that. It is called protecting there IP. If they allow this to happen then there ability to stop similar things down the road will not hold up in court. If you don't protect your IP you lose control of said IP. It's not about money or anything like that. Its all about protecting the World of Warcraft and Warcraft IP. Otherwise we are going to end up with hundreds of thousands of different World of Warcrafts and Warcraft games.
Thats why alot of us have said this is about the stupidest thing Nos could have done. A big company like Blizzard moves very slow. Things take a long time to come around but they almost always do at the end of the day.
Well some ppl don't have patience . We will see how Blizzard will react. It may be that Blizzard will not do anything to not disturb the shitstorm again on them, so if it was that, the Nostalrius team did the best decision ever. But if Blizz don't give a fuck about shitstorms, they will get their asses to the court.
So basically, the topic of official vanilla realms has ended with this decisions from Nost dev.
Owning something worth protecting gives one the right to be a dick, if need be. You're also weighing a company that can't really afford a large scale war against it's potential customers vs one who can. Daybreak is in no position to withstand a fight against consumers, they weren't when they were still SOE either. They'd already bit off far more than they could chew in terms of public backlash.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am guessing since the success of newest xpack, Blizz is giving rats ass for a legacy server. They will probably make one day a legacy server after WoWs userbase decline drastically They have nothing to lose, its probably a win for them anyway. This way the legacy server gets even more developed and when they want it they just get the whole code with all those people on board.
And those Elysum guys are probably out of the reach of the US law.
You obviously don't know much about copyright laws but there are very few countries that don't have or abide by other countries copyright laws, there is a reason someone in say the same country Elysium is in cant just make iphones and call them something else, hate to break it to you but Elysium is not out of reach of copyright laws, they arent just a US thing duh and the minute they get anywere near as buig as nost. did they will be shutdown as well.
Dude, what Nostalrius is using is not Blizzard's code, okay? It's code derived from ManGOS. NOT BLIZZARD'S CODE. Get it now? It'd be similar to Nintendo trying to sue the Nestopia UE developers for writing an emulator that plays their games.
Nostalrius hosting a server running the code? Definitely actionable. Nostalrius distributing their ManGOS code extensions? Well, good luck to Blizzard suing somebody over something that's not their property. If Blizzard can find a single line of their own source code then they have a case. If not, it'd likely be a wasted effort.
The code isn't the problem, what it allows is... All it really takes is a good lawyer to put an argument forth on how it could possibly be damaging to the brand. At least nationally (within the US)... Abroad is a different matter entirely though.
That's the real dick move part on behalf of Nos, which what i said earlier applies, owning something gives the right to be a dick, if need be...
Dick moves for all it seems...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am guessing since the success of newest xpack, Blizz is giving rats ass for a legacy server. They will probably make one day a legacy server after WoWs userbase decline drastically They have nothing to lose, its probably a win for them anyway. This way the legacy server gets even more developed and when they want it they just get the whole code with all those people on board.
And those Elysum guys are probably out of the reach of the US law.
You obviously don't know much about copyright laws but there are very few countries that don't have or abide by other countries copyright laws, there is a reason someone in say the same country Elysium is in cant just make iphones and call them something else, hate to break it to you but Elysium is not out of reach of copyright laws, they arent just a US thing duh and the minute they get anywere near as buig as nost. did they will be shutdown as well.
There are quite a few countries who do not adhere to US copyright laws. China as an example, they rip off all kinds of us products and re-brand them, from toys to electronics and everything in between. They're not the only country though.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
It's a risky investment on many levels. Let's say they open only two servers, then these realms would be overrun. If they open more, maybe too many players would jump off of the main game or people would be calling for merges 6 month after. As far as i see it, classic servers would result in too much drama on every level. (pun -ha ha ha!)
What payment options would they offer? 10 years old game, missing QoL left and right... for a regular sub? We know that classic servers wouldn't come for free. Who would run two subs for two versions of the same game at the same time?
My guess is that they would rather wait out what the retention of Legion is and if people jump ship again after 4-6 month like they did in WoD, Blizzard would rather push the main game. Perhaps by extending the trial to level 60 or something.
All this threatening and releasing may or may not be a lame move, depending on anybody's personal POV, but i doubt that it affects Blizzard's decision on classic servers in any way.
Edit: I will add that I never missed a raid. Neither did the other druid. The guild didn't want to over recruit people. They didn't want people waiting around in reserves feeling left out. So I guess it could be seen as a reward for being there and ready. We did have issues with people an commitments and that was always a hassle with a guild run like ours was. maybe one or 2 reserves. Not many.
This just ruins the relation they had with Blizzard, which was basically over after they left their headquarters after the presentation of the server they had. They kept the code to keep it as a leverage, which Blizzard really never seen it as one. The code is a collaboration of years of people adding to it, and to sue Nost devs over what so many has worked on wouldn't make sense, there's already tons of servers running vanilla out there.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Like @Grakulen pointed out before, the Nostalrius guys just failed on how to do business here.
On the other hand WC is a pretty blatant rip off of Warhammer, and SC is a Blatant rip of 40k (not by accident either..). They were originally trying to make a Warhammer game but failed to acquire the license. So they decided to change the backstory up and called it their own, rather than waste the work already done... The rest as they say is history.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
As a former Nost player, I am extremely excited about this, and can't wait to start playing Vanilla again.
I have a ton of respect for what Nostalrius is doing.
If they were copying the current wow, word for word, code for code, and giving it away for free then I would understand (partly) but how is a buggy vanilla server with a few thousand players going to have any effect on the population/profitability of the current game? Are you that offended that a few autistic people who can't let go of the past just want to play on their little hug-box server away from all the "casuals"?
I haven't been keeping up with all of this as much as I've wanted to but I don't understand why everyone on blizzards side is so against a small vanilla server existing, other than the fact it's "stealing" which is (other than the assets) debatable.
Personally I believe they still have this as an option on the table. I don't think their little meetup was just for show but between gauging interest and the cost-to-profit ratio, not to mention "Soon" they are probably going to take their sweet time before releasing any information either way about it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The worst part is by them doing what they have done, they have forced Blizzard to take action. Heck they allowed Nos to run for over a year before it because a issue and they ordered the close down. And that was purely because the Nos server started to cost Blizzard money and they HAD to take action. Just like this new server / op they have handed the code over to. It will be taken down just like Nos's server was.
It isn't Blizzard being a dick or anything like that. It is called protecting there IP. If they allow this to happen then there ability to stop similar things down the road will not hold up in court. If you don't protect your IP you lose control of said IP. It's not about money or anything like that. Its all about protecting the World of Warcraft and Warcraft IP. Otherwise we are going to end up with hundreds of thousands of different World of Warcrafts and Warcraft games.
Thats why alot of us have said this is about the stupidest thing Nos could have done. A big company like Blizzard moves very slow. Things take a long time to come around but they almost always do at the end of the day.
So basically, the topic of official vanilla realms has ended with this decisions from Nost dev.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You obviously don't know much about copyright laws but there are very few countries that don't have or abide by other countries copyright laws, there is a reason someone in say the same country Elysium is in cant just make iphones and call them something else, hate to break it to you but Elysium is not out of reach of copyright laws, they arent just a US thing duh and the minute they get anywere near as buig as nost. did they will be shutdown as well.
That's the real dick move part on behalf of Nos, which what i said earlier applies, owning something gives the right to be a dick, if need be...
Dick moves for all it seems...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson