Maybe I'm the one of the only ones who actually liked ESO's combat? The only reason I don't get truly invested in the game is the lack of auction house, but I seem to be in the minority there.
Trade guilds are the same thing as auction houses.. they are in all major cities
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
SWTOR, REPOPULATION, ESO, etc. Hero Engine seems to have been a plague on the MMORPG world. I hope that future MMO engine creators will learn the lessons and be superior in all ways to Hero.
I really like GW2 animations, but I remember nothing but fun fluid combat from ESO too. People having issues with it must look at it differently than me. I have always enjoyed good fluid animation and just do not remember having an issue with ESO.
Did you just got into endgame now? lol.
Animation canceling has been one of the main problems with ESO, getting people that don't use it raped in pvp. NB can one shot people with animation cancel.
Either way, thanks for pointing the main issue with eso after two years.
You know it. We know it. There's nothing they can do about it...
The DPS diference between people that cancel the animation and those that wait for the animation to finish is way too much. Even in PvE... Macros ftw.
Just google animation cancel ESO and you'll see what I'm talking about.
I really like the active blocking in ESO, the heavy/light attack system, interupts, and the lack of CDs on skill use. Its also got some pretty interesting buff/debuff and cc mechanics.
However, for some reason it has never fully "clicked" for me. For example I play a lot of pvp in GW2 and after playing a class/build for a while it feels almost like an extension of me in terms of the way I can get my toon to move/fight/react; whereas in ESO I have never had that feeling. Its possibly partly because GW2's combat is pretty much a tab targeting system, which makes ESO's combat inherently more challenging.
Still, even though I can't seem to fully grasp how to play it well, I would class it as the best or one of the best combat systems in an mmo. Its way more interesting than wow style tab-targeting at any rate.
I dislike any game that has weapon swapping in it as part of the mechanics. I didn't like it in GW2 and I don't like it in ESO. The UI and overall game mechanics are clearly made for console players. There is nothing fluid about having to switch bars constantly when fighting on a PC. I would expect that with a controller, but not a KBM setup.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
@baphamet - As far as I'm aware they ended up simply using a highly modified version of the HeroEngine, so it's probably very far removed at this point.
@Iselin - I knew what you meant I think my issue is that I only like certain play styles and the sort of class I would want over a bow user, isn't in ESO (Necromancer) either that, or a Berserker type class that gets stronger and attacks faster the longer they're in combat. As it stands however, I'm no fan of the casters in the game but am willing to give some of the melee classes a go.
Another consideration is that mob resistances to different types of attack vary - which influences the result of your attack; they can be "spectacularly" weak to certain attacks as well.
Which potentially makes the ability to change weapon and attacks at level 15 more significant. It takes time to unlock and level skill however - well past level 50.
Personally, my only problem with ESO comat is animation cancelling. It ensures only the fastest and usually youngest of twitchy players can game a system in a way it wasn't meant to be used for, but the devs sanctioned anyway.
.. Well, that and the new Item Sets which all but ensure a one-shot-one-kill except in the most ideal of circumstances.
And don't even get me about the average TTK - It's abysmally fast.
I must be getting old because I actually like the combat in this game.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I like ESO's combat for a couple reasons including their skill system that they have in place and the limited 5-10 buttons to press. The fact that you have to manage your stamina and magicka intrigues me. Plus the ability to roll dodge, thats what I like to see in combat systems. Yes when I block I notice things might be a little weird or off but I don't play the game enough to care about that tbh.
The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
Im a big fan of The Elder Scroll Series, im playing ESO a lot and i love it, but i have to admit the combat is a problem, is not that is bad but it feels weak and with simple animations, i dont like the skills limitation either, 5 skills its insane i want at least 8 or 10 for each weapon, i do like a lot the animations in the GW2 combat and is reponsive as well, it let me do combos with varius skills while changing weapons. If ESO do fixe this problems or at least improve them this game will skyrocket.
PS. Sorry for my bad Eng. its not my native lenguage.
I think the major issue with casting is that is server sided, which causes that Ms of delay which we see when casting. I play a Templar and the delay between the time you cast the spell and the time it starts the spell if not good.
I think the major issue with casting is that is server sided, which causes that Ms of delay which we see when casting. I play a Templar and the delay between the time you cast the spell and the time it starts the spell if not good.
I don't experience that, even on my Templar. Do you play on wifi by chance?
As it stands however, I'm no fan of the casters in the game but am willing to give some of the melee classes a go.
Don't be confused by the class names. Every class, even the sorcerer, can be built as a melee class. As a matter of fact my current favorite, and the one I suggested you check out for comparison, the stamina DPS sorcerer is very much an up close and personal melee fighter in medium armor.
I use the bow as one of my weapons and dual wield daggers for the other set. I only use the bow to open with a hail of arrows on the spot where I want to melee them, follow that with a poison injection from the bow also to get the DOT ticking before the hail of arrows has even started dropping and then go in and do everything else meleeing with my daggers while arrows drop all around me.
ESO DPS is not so much about classes as it is about stamina vs. magicka users. Magicka sorcerers are the stereotypical hang back and nuke types but the stamina melee version is a sorcerer in name only. The way it plays and feels actually reminds me of the Champion from LOTRO... if you know that class.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think people on both sides have good points. The combat does have it's good features but also it's bad ones. Overall it's just "ok" at best. If you want an action combat centered Western developed MMO it's not a bad choice. GW2's combat is also "ok" at best. Both of them I think fare much better in PvE combat than PvP, but overall they both have serious issues.
I have to disagree with the author though on BDO. I love BDO's combat and it's one of the main things that keeps the game fun. TERA was another great one. Also can't say I've experienced the textureless NPC's in BDO and the pop-in I never notice so it doesn't bother me.
None of these games are perfect but the strengths in them are all certainly very different. Combat I would not say is the best part of ESO or GW2. BDO and TERA yes it's a strong point. ESO is good for it's lore and questing, PVE, immersion, exploration, etc. GW2's convenience and casual features are good as well as it's open world focus.
I am glad we're critiquing the action combat in ESO though and I think we need to do so more for other Western developed games. Korean games absolutely destroy Western MMO's in both action combat and graphics every single time. I think if Western devs could learn to do those things well, they'd have some absolutely insane games on their hands. They do most other things fairly well already but those are two completely huge game features for a lot of gamers that cause many to avoid or eventually leave those Western MMO's. We need to demand higher standards.
I honestly feel that the best combat is Age of Conan. The game hasn’t done well but that doesn’t mean that one piece of it can’t be amazing. When you attack a mob it has three hash marks around it that show where it is focusing its defense. So if you only spam your best attacks and they are all left side attacks you’ll see all 3 hash marks on the left side meaning that a weaker attack to the front or right side will actually do more damage. This was great with combos that required certain directional attacks before you could hit your big attack so you always had to choose which was the best for the situation at hand. It made every fight even against trash mobs much more interesting. Sure you can spam the same attack over and over again but you won’t kill a ton of mobs per hour compared to fighting efficiently against each mob’s defense for an hour. Heaven forbid you were trying to spam the same attack when you get rushed by multiple attackers. If you fight efficiently you can take on more mobs at once compared to just spamming so it became a must when you were fighting a bunch of attacks at once.
My main is a Sorcerer specialized in Conjuration/Destruction Staff. I personally find the spell play some of the best MMO's have to offer. I also really like how summons A.I. reacts. Also, atmosphere and variety is great. I did play with weapons as my original goal was to play a spell sword. I moved off this idea for 2 reasons. One, I couldn't dual wield a staff and a sword (or like how I play spell sword, with a single sword and a spell selection in my off hand, which you can't do in this game :S). Two, swapping between the roles just didn't seem to transition well, and I actually just ended up either killing things with dual wield, or spells, rarely a combination of both. I guess if I built with just conjuration and dual wield only, I may have had a better time, and its something I will explore later.
I do have alts I have played that were more melee oriented, and I didn't mind the game play. The block/dodge/roll thing was super simple to master, so it becomes sort of a cake walk, unless your a melee against casters, then you really needed to get in their face and knock them down with power attacks and interrupts (cause spells track).
As far as what's the best combat system I have played in an MMO? I think this question is loaded with bias from what people have always liked to play. I still am a ability bar guy, so I prefer SWTOR or WoW the most due to the ability synergies and rotations. But, I do like the Action combat of ESO quite a bit, so if its outside of the traditional systems, it is certainly one of my favorite. I also really like the AC play of Neverwinter, and the hybrid from The Secret World. FFXIV has some great takes on combo synergy for a traditional GCD style.
The problem is that the combat mechanics in ESO are directly limited by the way they originally built the engine. It was a tab-target game originally, and when there was enough outcry from players during development they they didn't like how much that deviated from the Elder Scrolls game series it got changed.
But not everything could be changed. The core mechanics about how hits are tracked and registered were already built into the engine and to rewrite all that code would take them gutting a massive portion of said engine to rebuild the physics, hit registry, possible collision, etc. So instead, they did what they could with the engine as-is and made soft-locking enemies into the basis of how things would work.
With refinement this mostly works, but there will always be inconsistencies and issues with the game because of the differences between how a game tracks enemies and calculates attacks in such a system versus one that's more physics/collision based or even raycast/hitscan based.
Comments
Trade guilds are the same thing as auction houses.. they are in all major cities
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
People always miss this point. They used it during development but when they launched it was on a engine they built from the ground up.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Either way, thanks for pointing the main issue with eso after two years. You know it. We know it. There's nothing they can do about it... The DPS diference between people that cancel the animation and those that wait for the animation to finish is way too much. Even in PvE... Macros ftw. Just google animation cancel ESO and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Beta tester maniac
However, for some reason it has never fully "clicked" for me. For example I play a lot of pvp in GW2 and after playing a class/build for a while it feels almost like an extension of me in terms of the way I can get my toon to move/fight/react; whereas in ESO I have never had that feeling. Its possibly partly because GW2's combat is pretty much a tab targeting system, which makes ESO's combat inherently more challenging.
Still, even though I can't seem to fully grasp how to play it well, I would class it as the best or one of the best combat systems in an mmo. Its way more interesting than wow style tab-targeting at any rate.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
@Iselin - I knew what you meant
*sees how many comments there are*
*laughs*
Which potentially makes the ability to change weapon and attacks at level 15 more significant. It takes time to unlock and level skill however - well past level 50.
.. Well, that and the new Item Sets which all but ensure a one-shot-one-kill except in the most ideal of circumstances.
And don't even get me about the average TTK - It's abysmally fast.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
PS. Sorry for my bad Eng. its not my native lenguage.
As a matter of fact my current favorite, and the one I suggested you check out for comparison, the stamina DPS sorcerer is very much an up close and personal melee fighter in medium armor.
I use the bow as one of my weapons and dual wield daggers for the other set. I only use the bow to open with a hail of arrows on the spot where I want to melee them, follow that with a poison injection from the bow also to get the DOT ticking before the hail of arrows has even started dropping and then go in and do everything else meleeing with my daggers while arrows drop all around me.
ESO DPS is not so much about classes as it is about stamina vs. magicka users. Magicka sorcerers are the stereotypical hang back and nuke types but the stamina melee version is a sorcerer in name only. The way it plays and feels actually reminds me of the Champion from LOTRO... if you know that class.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I have to disagree with the author though on BDO. I love BDO's combat and it's one of the main things that keeps the game fun. TERA was another great one. Also can't say I've experienced the textureless NPC's in BDO and the pop-in I never notice so it doesn't bother me.
None of these games are perfect but the strengths in them are all certainly very different. Combat I would not say is the best part of ESO or GW2. BDO and TERA yes it's a strong point. ESO is good for it's lore and questing, PVE, immersion, exploration, etc. GW2's convenience and casual features are good as well as it's open world focus.
I am glad we're critiquing the action combat in ESO though and I think we need to do so more for other Western developed games. Korean games absolutely destroy Western MMO's in both action combat and graphics every single time. I think if Western devs could learn to do those things well, they'd have some absolutely insane games on their hands. They do most other things fairly well already but those are two completely huge game features for a lot of gamers that cause many to avoid or eventually leave those Western MMO's. We need to demand higher standards.
I do have alts I have played that were more melee oriented, and I didn't mind the game play. The block/dodge/roll thing was super simple to master, so it becomes sort of a cake walk, unless your a melee against casters, then you really needed to get in their face and knock them down with power attacks and interrupts (cause spells track).
As far as what's the best combat system I have played in an MMO? I think this question is loaded with bias from what people have always liked to play. I still am a ability bar guy, so I prefer SWTOR or WoW the most due to the ability synergies and rotations. But, I do like the Action combat of ESO quite a bit, so if its outside of the traditional systems, it is certainly one of my favorite. I also really like the AC play of Neverwinter, and the hybrid from The Secret World. FFXIV has some great takes on combo synergy for a traditional GCD style.
But not everything could be changed. The core mechanics about how hits are tracked and registered were already built into the engine and to rewrite all that code would take them gutting a massive portion of said engine to rebuild the physics, hit registry, possible collision, etc. So instead, they did what they could with the engine as-is and made soft-locking enemies into the basis of how things would work.
With refinement this mostly works, but there will always be inconsistencies and issues with the game because of the differences between how a game tracks enemies and calculates attacks in such a system versus one that's more physics/collision based or even raycast/hitscan based.