Old games took years to get to the 50k -500k subs. Through marketing today's games get there from day one. Both sets have settled to average numbers of a couple hundred thousand.
Not really. Old games got popular quickly. They just grew over time because they offered something for players to do for longer.
Also, there was about 1/3 of the people on the internet back when MMOs became big, so sporting a few 100k subs in 2016 is pretty trash for mainstream MMOs when games created on a few million 15 years ago were able to achieve the same.
No they really didn't. They took years to climb. EQ took 3-4 years to get to 450k. The others never got even that high.
Yes there were less people.
Games today release with 2-10 times more than old games peak from day 1. They end up at the old games stable base though.
Yeah, tremendously less people. You'd have to do some ratio math to do a real comparison between now and then.
Even still, EQ hit 200k in a couple months. Back when most people didn't even have a PC, let alone an internet connection, and those that did thought a subscription for a computer game was blasphemy.
If I was a game maker (and I'm not so take this with a battleship of salt), the business decision is this. Make a game for 50,000 to a few hundred thousand that will last 2-3 years and generate 10 million+ a month or make a game for 50 million and hope to make 10-20 million a month for 3 months then pray to god you can make 5-10 million a month for the next few years.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Old games took years to get to the 50k -500k subs. Through marketing today's games get there from day one. Both sets have settled to average numbers of a couple hundred thousand.
Not really. Old games got popular quickly. They just grew over time because they offered something for players to do for longer.
Also, there was about 1/3 of the people on the internet back when MMOs became big, so sporting a few 100k subs in 2016 is pretty trash for mainstream MMOs when games created on a few million 15 years ago were able to achieve the same.
No they really didn't. They took years to climb. EQ took 3-4 years to get to 450k. The others never got even that high.
Yes there were less people.
Games today release with 2-10 times more than old games peak from day 1. They end up at the old games stable base though.
Yeah, tremendously less people. You'd have to do some ratio math to do a real comparison between now and then.
One issue sure. Another which countries are they available in. Obvious example China and WoW but there are many others. Means not all comparisons are like for like. A third issue is payment type.
If I was a game maker (and I'm not so take this with a battleship of salt), the business decision is this. Make a game for 50,000 to a few hundred thousand that will last 2-3 years and generate 10 million+ a month or make a game for 50 million and hope to make 10-20 million a month for 3 months then pray to god you can make 5-10 million a month for the next few years.
Pretty much on target.
The first MMOs out were built by gamers for gamers as a passion of gaming and in some cases on their own time. The success of one lead to a lot of commercial interest but each one out was almost a carbon copy of the other.
In order for this genre to survive it is going to require something new that is realistic for todays technology.
I'm still waiting to see data that shows that there are less hours played in MMORPGs today than there were last year, or the year before that, or in 2004, or on any other date you want to pick as the peak. THAT is the only thing that would actually show a decline.
Meanwhile, confirmation bias...
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The poor design philosophy deployed by MMO companies is not to be applauded. They are in a state of decline because they've over-leveraged accessibility at the cost of keeping a consistent long-term playerbase.
In short, they believe it to be more profitable to offer a larger audience a shorter and shallower virtual experience, than it is to provide a more robust and tailored experience for a smaller audience for a longer period of time. This design has been weighed in the balance by big game companies and venture capital firms, and been found wanting. Thus, there are less mainstream games in development.
At this point, it's safe to say that that paradigm is over and the future belongs to games of higher quality for targeted audiences.
Indie devs with small budgets can target a niche audience - this is true. However it remains unknown how succesful this turns out as none of indie MMOs in the works have a released product.
AAA companies are not in the state of decline, look at Blizzard - they have simply adjusted to current mass playerbase - Hearthstone makes a ton more money than WoW, Overwatch also slayed financially
Whats in the state of decline is player interest in MMORPGs- the game devs simply follow market trends
If MMORPGs become the most desired game by the masses, you'd see EVERY major game studio make one.
I would argue that the interest in MMOs hasn't changed much since their inception. Take WoW out of the picture and interest is likely similar. The "problem" was that companies tried to follow the WoW success train rather than realizing they can be successful without 10million subscribers. Once they realized they couldn't reproduce what WoW did they've moved on. The reason indie companies stand a chance now is because they're not trying for 10 million subscribers, they're just looking for enough while creating the game they want to play.
Success in the MMORPG genre is defined much differently now than in the past. I'm not an expert but this is what I observed since I began playing MMORPGs in 1999.
It used to be considered successful to have a good sized dedicated group of loyal players generating steady revenue over a long period of time. Extremely successful games like Lineage or WoW were considered an anomaly and were not the expected result at the time.
See? World of Warcraft itself is not to blame although it did act as a catalyst to set events in motion toward the current state of the genre. Greed and ignorance are the true culprits... moving on.
Then greed set in among developers. This crazy idea of making a "WoW killer" took hold. Blinded by dollar signs in their eyes, they tried to copy (and dreamed of exceeding) WoW's success by making their games as similar to it as possible. This largely failed. They didn't take WoW's players as they hoped. In many cases where their current games were changed to make them more appealing to WoW players they drove away many of their existing loyal players who liked the game the way it was. Iif players wanted a game like WoW they would just play WoW. Apparently that's a hard concept to grasp when you're blinded by chasing huge profits!
The "WoW killer" rush eventually died off without producing that magical game that would finally top WoW's success (MOBAs eventually did it but that's a story for another time). Although it seems that way, It was not a total failure for the developers. During that time they perfected the art of generating hype. They learned if they show small video clips of the game showing really pretty graphics, eye catching visuals and cool-looking action combat sequences then list a bunch of gimmick features while making claims of being 'next generation' that most players would begin shouting "shut up and take my money!"
...And take their money they did. The developers found their own "instant gratification" in the form of selling 'founder packs' and/or 'early access' passes before their games were even finished. This way they could blame how bad their game was on it not being done and generate even more hype by making big promises they had no intentions of keeping.
As for the long term? It eventually became commonplace to host a game for a year or less. All the while making promises and milking the ever dwindling population for every last cent before selling their game to another host company or just shutting it down.
Players are also to blame. They lose interest in a game quickly. Sure, this is made worse by the overwhelming number of overly hyped cash grab games that are being made but today's typical players are still partially responsible for this. Players start in one game and then are like "Hey look! a new game with amazing graphics and awesome action combat!! Shut up and take my money!!!" then rinse and repeat. This constant cycle of being fooled into spending money on hype and empty promises is fueling the problem!
As for older/wiser players that should know better, They find themselves jumping from game to game as well. Not because they buy into the hype but because they are looking for something to fill that empty spot in their life that past games that are no longer fun used to fill. Unfortunately that hunger cannot be satisfied by these very pretty yet overly simplified, gimmick-laden, watered down clones of everything that existed before. Older players really want something new.. truly new, unique, innovative with depth and long-term playability. It can't be the same old game with a cheap gimmick (like action combat for example) thrown in. Sadly, such a game doesn't exist right now.
Long gone are the days of high quality game design that is intended to keep loyal, satisfied players for many years. We now live in a world where instant profit from overly hyped and poorly made games is easy to achieve.
MMORPGs appeal to a niche audience that has potential to be rabidly passionate about their game enough to keep putting their money into it for many years. That is where the MMORPG genre shines in comparison to other MMOs. They will always fall flat if used for a quick cash grab. If players keep falling for hype and cheap gimmicks all you'll see are more of the same poorly made quick cash grab games that lack any depth or originality. Until the genre is treated with the love and respect that the art form deserves by both players and developers the current trend will continue.
This is true. Just meaning that when EQ released that got a lion's share of the available population at that time and created more (new to the genre) over time. No current release does that. This is in small part why it can be said that MMOs are in decline. Not dead, by no means, but just do not have the "umph" they once did and are not bringing many new people on like yesteryear. There's a lot of cannablizing going on.
Sorry, but i have to call you on that, i have yet to see any evidence that there aren't new people coming into the genre year on year, and while i have no doubt that people switch between MMO's as the fancy takes them, thats not a bad thing. Today we live in an age where internet access is a given, which is something that can't be said when MMO's first hit the internet, i remember playing Everquest on i think, a 33k modem, at least until i was able to get ISDN line to the house, nowadays people have various forms of adsl and cable, with adsl bandwidths now capable of over 50mb connections, more people than ever are using the internet and are exposed to the services/games etc. that use it. I would suggest that people are getting involved in MMO's at a higher rate than they were back in the bad old days of dial up modems, and while i cannot provide any definitive proof that this is the case, there is also no proof that it isn't, well, perhaps except for one tiny thing, and thats year on year, the PC MMO's revenue gains by around 6% each year, i doubt its because people are spending more year on year, but that it represents newcomers bringing revenue into the genre instead.
Sorry, but i have to call you on that, i have yet to see any evidence that there aren't new people coming into the genre year on year, and while i have no doubt that people switch between MMO's as the fancy takes them, thats not a bad thing. Today we live in an age where internet access is a given, which is something that can't be said when MMO's first hit the internet, i remember playing Everquest on i think, a 33k modem, at least until i was able to get ISDN line to the house, nowadays people have various forms of adsl and cable, with adsl bandwidths now capable of over 50mb connections, more people than ever are using the internet and are exposed to the services/games etc. that use it. I would suggest that people are getting involved in MMO's at a higher rate than they were back in the bad old days of dial up modems, and while i cannot provide any definitive proof that this is the case, there is also no proof that it isn't, well, perhaps except for one tiny thing, and thats year on year, the PC MMO's revenue gains by around 6% each year, i doubt its because people are spending more year on year, but that it represents newcomers bringing revenue into the genre instead.
I do kinda feel that I meet far fewer people asking noob questions today then 5 years back so it is far from impossible that there are less new players coming into the genre, it seems to me that mobile gaming is where the new people are turning up.
But I can't really back that up with numbers so people could just reading up better on the net before starting to play, even though I think it is likely that the genre gets fewer new players now. If you go into a physical gaming store then you notice that MMOs have lost most of it's spotlight, while they don't hide the boxes they don't display them the same way anymore either and that does not really help us.
Success in the MMORPG genre is defined much differently now than in the past. I'm not an expert but this is what I observed since I began playing MMORPGs in 1999.
It used to be considered successful to have a good sized dedicated group of loyal players generating steady revenue over a long period of time. Extremely successful games like Lineage or WoW were considered an anomaly and were not the expected result at the time.
See? World of Warcraft itself is not to blame although it did act as a catalyst to set events in motion toward the current state of the genre. Greed and ignorance are the true culprits... moving on.
Then greed set in among developers. This crazy idea of making a "WoW killer" took hold. Blinded by dollar signs in their eyes, they tried to copy (and dreamed of exceeding) WoW's success by making their games as similar to it as possible. This largely failed. They didn't take WoW's players as they hoped. In many cases where their current games were changed to make them more appealing to WoW players they drove away many of their existing loyal players who liked the game the way it was. Iif players wanted a game like WoW they would just play WoW. Apparently that's a hard concept to grasp when you're blinded by chasing huge profits!
The "WoW killer" rush eventually died off without producing that magical game that would finally top WoW's success (MOBAs eventually did it but that's a story for another time). Although it seems that way, It was not a total failure for the developers. During that time they perfected the art of generating hype. They learned if they show small video clips of the game showing really pretty graphics, eye catching visuals and cool-looking action combat sequences then list a bunch of gimmick features while making claims of being 'next generation' that most players would begin shouting "shut up and take my money!"
...And take their money they did. The developers found their own "instant gratification" in the form of selling 'founder packs' and/or 'early access' passes before their games were even finished. This way they could blame how bad their game was on it not being done and generate even more hype by making big promises they had no intentions of keeping.
As for the long term? It eventually became commonplace to host a game for a year or less. All the while making promises and milking the ever dwindling population for every last cent before selling their game to another host company or just shutting it down.
Players are also to blame. They lose interest in a game quickly. Sure, this is made worse by the overwhelming number of overly hyped cash grab games that are being made but today's typical players are still partially responsible for this. Players start in one game and then are like "Hey look! a new game with amazing graphics and awesome action combat!! Shut up and take my money!!!" then rinse and repeat. This constant cycle of being fooled into spending money on hype and empty promises is fueling the problem!
As for older/wiser players that should know better, They find themselves jumping from game to game as well. Not because they buy into the hype but because they are looking for something to fill that empty spot in their life that past games that are no longer fun used to fill. Unfortunately that hunger cannot be satisfied by these very pretty yet overly simplified, gimmick-laden, watered down clones of everything that existed before. Older players really want something new.. truly new, unique, innovative with depth and long-term playability. It can't be the same old game with a cheap gimmick (like action combat for example) thrown in. Sadly, such a game doesn't exist right now.
Long gone are the days of high quality game design that is intended to keep loyal, satisfied players for many years. We now live in a world where instant profit from overly hyped and poorly made games is easy to achieve.
MMORPGs appeal to a niche audience that has potential to be rabidly passionate about their game enough to keep putting their money into it for many years. That is where the MMORPG genre shines in comparison to other MMOs. They will always fall flat if used for a quick cash grab. If players keep falling for hype and cheap gimmicks all you'll see are more of the same poorly made quick cash grab games that lack any depth or originality. Until the genre is treated with the love and respect that the art form deserves by both players and developers the current trend will continue.
To summarize....
before wow, players who wanted to play the game did not want to rush through the game, but wanted to spend a long period of their life in it (have a long good journey).
During/after WoW, millions of casual crybabies and carebears (with big wallets) jumped on the mmorpg bandwagon, complained how things are too hard and took to long to accomplish. Then the greedy developers listened to this new massive crowd and now we have what we have today.
Unfortunately for the regular folks playing MMORPGs before WoW it was basically 10% of the population actually playing the game and the other 90% stumbling about in the dark. It worked because the gaming population was different and didn't have the same access to information that it does now.
Let's be real - no one wants to stumble around in the dark anymore be they casual or hardcore. That stumbling is what made those games actually fun though.... leaving your racial starting city and just going "alright time to go kill some bad guys for tattered armor." Now a days people will just look everything up.... I can tell you from my time on Project 1999 that it's not the same game even when it's actually the same game. Now most of the player base only uses certain dungeons to level for example...
Let's be real - no one wants to stumble around in the dark anymore be they casual or hardcore.
Sorry nope.
I still play games without any knowledge beforehand. Discovering it myself, my way, my time, my effort. It is not about the end-game, it is about exploration, an escape from reality.
Modern MMO's have higher production values than ever before. They have millions of dollars thrown at them and they benefit from all the new technology. What they do not have are the close knit communities that made the early MMO's fun to play. With the likes of DAoC, Ao, SWG, EQ etc. it was fun to spend time with the other people who played and a lot of time was spent just hanging around or helping each other out. In DAoC for instance you could shout out for a rez and someone would come from miles away if needed to pick your sorry ass up.
In most modern MMO's you hardly speak to anyone and they are more like single player games that other people just happen to run around in, with the champions of that being ESO and SWTOR unless you know of others that are more sp in outlook and design. The reason for this imo can be placed firmly at the doorstep of WoW and how popular it became. In came the mass and out went the small but close knit communities. With the vastly increased pop also came the asshats by the ton to hammer in the final nail. I feel for those relatively new to the genre because they will never experience an MMO the way that us vets have, but then again they will never need to mourn their demise.
The MMO genre has been in a state of decline for some time now, and I doubt it will improve. Oh, they are technically very well done now (mostly), but in terms of their actual content and quality of player base and player interaction, they are in horrendous shape and unlikely to recover.
Someone early in the thread said something about MMOs being "more popular now than ever" or close to that. Sure, they have more players, but compared to 15 years ago, waaaaay more people have access to computers and the internet, so there's your explanation. And as someone else said, just because something is popular absolutely does not mean it is high in quality.
Trouble with MMOs is that their ultimate health and longevity is determined by player interaction and a general willingness within the player base to keep playing, and to keep seeking challenges. Those aspects have been destroyed by a liberal society that believes everybody should "win", that everybody should be "equal", and that MY opinion is more important than YOUR opinion because I can post it to YouTube. You don't see much differentiation any more betwixt the haves and the have-nots in MMOs because to do so is "bullying" or makes people feel "bad" or "less-than" or might "offend" someone. Guess what? If I have spent hundreds of hours working on a character, you're damn right I deserve to have better gear/rep/what have you than some idiot complainer who isn't smart enough to even play his class properly. Unfortunately you are no longer "allowed" to be elite, or have upper-tier equipment or achievements, because "everybody wins!" in this new, crappy breed of games.
"We are all as God made us, and many of us much worse." - Don Quixote
"Decline," when spoken within the context of MMO's can be subjective.
There are far more choices in MMO's, and far more people playing MMO's today, than there have ever been. Some of us just don't feel any of them are as fun as they once where, or worth the investment in time. Given the rise in players playing MMO's today, many others obviously feel differently. Who here speaks for the millions?
A more accurate thread title might have been "The Decline of the Quality MMO." And even that is subjective as who is to say that the MMO of yesterday would be able to stand the scrutiny of MMO today.
Personal perception is personal reality. Of only that can we be truly certain.
If I run mythic raids, I will for sure have better gear than people just farming LFR. So you can still be "elite". Maybe you're just not playing the right games.
Sure, but raiders today includes a lot of shoddy PUG raiders that never would have beat the easiest raid boss in EQ. There are still some oldschoolers that does the really hard stuff but they are a small group today.
And Yeah, been a while since for me, started raid less and less, Don't really have the time for it anymore and if I can't do it seriously I see no point.
Since Lineage 1 was shut down in west I haven't spent more than 1 month in an MMO. Currenly I don't play any MMO, I'm stuck in either single player games or multiplayer until who knows a good MMO like Lineage appears again.
There are far more choices in MMO's, and far more people playing MMO's today, than there have ever been. Some of us just don't feel any of them are as fun as they once where, or worth the investment in time. Given the rise in players playing MMO's today, many others obviously feel differently. Who here speaks for the millions?
A more accurate thread title might have been "The Decline of the Quality MMO." And even that is subjective as who is to say that the MMO of yesterday would be able to stand the MMO scrutiny of today.
Personal perception is personal reality. Of only that can we be certain.
In this case, not only can it be subjective, it most definitely is.
Most telling was a reply from the OP back on page one:
"Just because the genre has tons of customers doesn't mean that it is healthy. McDonalds has billions of customers and their food is generally considered garbage."
See how he immediately went from generic decline to decline in the quality by not equating it to McDonalds continuing success and growth as a business but instead going after the food's quality?
It is 100% subjective and about perceived quality of the products and then using a 2-yr-old Bartle blog for confirmation bias: since he perceives current MMORPGs as shit they therefore also must be declining in global hours played when in fact, the opposite is much more likely.
It's no different really than when people post declining WOW sub numbers as proof for the same thing while ignoring all the other MMORPGs in addition to WOW that are now available for people to put their MMORPG playing time in.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Most indicator for what's going wrong with MMOs, in these days more true than ever, is the simple fact that decent modern singleplayer games usually have so much more to offer when it comes to deep gameplay. MMOs is where all the money (including all the opulent graphics which is where most of the money flows) sits, good gameplay is somewhere else.
"Decline," when spoken within the context of MMO's can be subjective.
There are far more choices in MMO's, and far more people playing MMO's today, than there have ever been. Some of us just don't feel any of them are as fun as they once where, or worth the investment in time. Given the rise in players playing MMO's today, many others obviously feel differently. Who here speaks for the millions?
A more accurate thread title might have been "The Decline of the Quality MMO." And even that is subjective as who is to say that the MMO of yesterday would be able to stand the scrutiny of MMO today.
Personal perception is personal reality. Of only that can we be truly certain.
Saying there are more is really a stretch. During WoW prime, all the biggest MMOs combined would have easily topped 20 million players across the top 10 MMOs. Good luck trying to find that in 2016. Maybe if you want to include some obscure Asian titles to inflate the numbers, but here in the West there are definitely not as many people playing MMORPGs.
"Decline," when spoken within the context of MMO's can be subjective.
There are far more choices in MMO's, and far more people playing MMO's today, than there have ever been. Some of us just don't feel any of them are as fun as they once where, or worth the investment in time. Given the rise in players playing MMO's today, many others obviously feel differently. Who here speaks for the millions?
A more accurate thread title might have been "The Decline of the Quality MMO." And even that is subjective as who is to say that the MMO of yesterday would be able to stand the scrutiny of MMO today.
Personal perception is personal reality. Of only that can we be truly certain.
Saying there are more is really a stretch. During WoW prime, all the biggest MMOs combined would have easily topped 20 million players across the top 10 MMOs. Good luck trying to find that in 2016. Maybe if you want to include some obscure Asian titles to inflate the numbers, but here in the West there are definitely not as many people playing MMORPGs.
Oh good. You sound so definite that you might actually have verifiable numbers... do you?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
And does is not really enough in the gaming business. You can make a game and still fail miserably, you can even make a pretty good game but still fail due to some small thing.
You thought wrong. Also, I do not think you understand the quote...
Comments
The first MMOs out were built by gamers for gamers as a passion of gaming and in some cases on their own time. The success of one lead to a lot of commercial interest but each one out was almost a carbon copy of the other.
In order for this genre to survive it is going to require something new that is realistic for todays technology.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Meanwhile, confirmation bias...
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It used to be considered successful to have a good sized dedicated group of loyal players generating steady revenue over a long period of time. Extremely successful games like Lineage or WoW were considered an anomaly and were not the expected result at the time.
See? World of Warcraft itself is not to blame although it did act as a catalyst to set events in motion toward the current state of the genre. Greed and ignorance are the true culprits... moving on.
Then greed set in among developers. This crazy idea of making a "WoW killer" took hold. Blinded by dollar signs in their eyes, they tried to copy (and dreamed of exceeding) WoW's success by making their games as similar to it as possible. This largely failed. They didn't take WoW's players as they hoped. In many cases where their current games were changed to make them more appealing to WoW players they drove away many of their existing loyal players who liked the game the way it was. Iif players wanted a game like WoW they would just play WoW. Apparently that's a hard concept to grasp when you're blinded by chasing huge profits!
The "WoW killer" rush eventually died off without producing that magical game that would finally top WoW's success (MOBAs eventually did it but that's a story for another time). Although it seems that way, It was not a total failure for the developers. During that time they perfected the art of generating hype. They learned if they show small video clips of the game showing really pretty graphics, eye catching visuals and cool-looking action combat sequences then list a bunch of gimmick features while making claims of being 'next generation' that most players would begin shouting "shut up and take my money!"
...And take their money they did. The developers found their own "instant gratification" in the form of selling 'founder packs' and/or 'early access' passes before their games were even finished. This way they could blame how bad their game was on it not being done and generate even more hype by making big promises they had no intentions of keeping.
As for the long term? It eventually became commonplace to host a game for a year or less. All the while making promises and milking the ever dwindling population for every last cent before selling their game to another host company or just shutting it down.
Players are also to blame. They lose interest in a game quickly. Sure, this is made worse by the overwhelming number of overly hyped cash grab games that are being made but today's typical players are still partially responsible for this. Players start in one game and then are like "Hey look! a new game with amazing graphics and awesome action combat!! Shut up and take my money!!!" then rinse and repeat. This constant cycle of being fooled into spending money on hype and empty promises is fueling the problem!
As for older/wiser players that should know better, They find themselves jumping from game to game as well. Not because they buy into the hype but because they are looking for something to fill that empty spot in their life that past games that are no longer fun used to fill. Unfortunately that hunger cannot be satisfied by these very pretty yet overly simplified, gimmick-laden, watered down clones of everything that existed before. Older players really want something new.. truly new, unique, innovative with depth and long-term playability. It can't be the same old game with a cheap gimmick (like action combat for example) thrown in. Sadly, such a game doesn't exist right now.
Long gone are the days of high quality game design that is intended to keep loyal, satisfied players for many years. We now live in a world where instant profit from overly hyped and poorly made games is easy to achieve.
MMORPGs appeal to a niche audience that has potential to be rabidly passionate about their game enough to keep putting their money into it for many years. That is where the MMORPG genre shines in comparison to other MMOs. They will always fall flat if used for a quick cash grab. If players keep falling for hype and cheap gimmicks all you'll see are more of the same poorly made quick cash grab games that lack any depth or originality. Until the genre is treated with the love and respect that the art form deserves by both players and developers the current trend will continue.
But I can't really back that up with numbers so people could just reading up better on the net before starting to play, even though I think it is likely that the genre gets fewer new players now. If you go into a physical gaming store then you notice that MMOs have lost most of it's spotlight, while they don't hide the boxes they don't display them the same way anymore either and that does not really help us.
Before WoW, there were no concepts of stupid raids and gear farming. It was all Role-Playing and RP-PK (not even PvP).
Today, if you can't join raids, you're as good as useless. No raid = No gear = No guild = Boring Game = Move on.
Unfortunately for the regular folks playing MMORPGs before WoW it was basically 10% of the population actually playing the game and the other 90% stumbling about in the dark. It worked because the gaming population was different and didn't have the same access to information that it does now.
Let's be real - no one wants to stumble around in the dark anymore be they casual or hardcore. That stumbling is what made those games actually fun though.... leaving your racial starting city and just going "alright time to go kill some bad guys for tattered armor." Now a days people will just look everything up.... I can tell you from my time on Project 1999 that it's not the same game even when it's actually the same game. Now most of the player base only uses certain dungeons to level for example...
I still play games without any knowledge beforehand. Discovering it myself, my way, my time, my effort. It is not about the end-game, it is about exploration, an escape from reality.
In most modern MMO's you hardly speak to anyone and they are more like single player games that other people just happen to run around in, with the champions of that being ESO and SWTOR unless you know of others that are more sp in outlook and design. The reason for this imo can be placed firmly at the doorstep of WoW and how popular it became. In came the mass and out went the small but close knit communities. With the vastly increased pop also came the asshats by the ton to hammer in the final nail. I feel for those relatively new to the genre because they will never experience an MMO the way that us vets have, but then again they will never need to mourn their demise.
Someone early in the thread said something about MMOs being "more popular now than ever" or close to that. Sure, they have more players, but compared to 15 years ago, waaaaay more people have access to computers and the internet, so there's your explanation. And as someone else said, just because something is popular absolutely does not mean it is high in quality.
Trouble with MMOs is that their ultimate health and longevity is determined by player interaction and a general willingness within the player base to keep playing, and to keep seeking challenges. Those aspects have been destroyed by a liberal society that believes everybody should "win", that everybody should be "equal", and that MY opinion is more important than YOUR opinion because I can post it to YouTube. You don't see much differentiation any more betwixt the haves and the have-nots in MMOs because to do so is "bullying" or makes people feel "bad" or "less-than" or might "offend" someone. Guess what? If I have spent hundreds of hours working on a character, you're damn right I deserve to have better gear/rep/what have you than some idiot complainer who isn't smart enough to even play his class properly. Unfortunately you are no longer "allowed" to be elite, or have upper-tier equipment or achievements, because "everybody wins!" in this new, crappy breed of games.
There are far more choices in MMO's, and far more people playing MMO's today, than there have ever been. Some of us just don't feel any of them are as fun as they once where, or worth the investment in time. Given the rise in players playing MMO's today, many others obviously feel differently. Who here speaks for the millions?
A more accurate thread title might have been "The Decline of the Quality MMO." And even that is subjective as who is to say that the MMO of yesterday would be able to stand the scrutiny of MMO today.
Personal perception is personal reality. Of only that can we be truly certain.
And Yeah, been a while since for me, started raid less and less, Don't really have the time for it anymore and if I can't do it seriously I see no point.
Most telling was a reply from the OP back on page one:
"Just because the genre has tons of customers doesn't mean that it is healthy. McDonalds has billions of customers and their food is generally considered garbage."
See how he immediately went from generic decline to decline in the quality by not equating it to McDonalds continuing success and growth as a business but instead going after the food's quality?
It is 100% subjective and about perceived quality of the products and then using a 2-yr-old Bartle blog for confirmation bias: since he perceives current MMORPGs as shit they therefore also must be declining in global hours played when in fact, the opposite is much more likely.
It's no different really than when people post declining WOW sub numbers as proof for the same thing while ignoring all the other MMORPGs in addition to WOW that are now available for people to put their MMORPG playing time in.
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Also, I do not think you understand the quote...