No group finder

LoudWisper

I get it.  I understand why this game can be popular and is needed by many.  But is this a pendulum swing in the opposite direction to far?  With no group finder do anyone not see the frustration it will bring to not being able to find a group to do what you want to do?  

I have only done a small amount of research on this game but that stood out or have I missed a follow up?   I can just remember when group finder was introduced to mmo's  it was amazing.  It now has caused nostalgia goggles to "remember when"  oh those were great times.  No actually waiting hours to find a group sucked.  

I will though keep a watch out at this game but that alone has put a pause to back the game.  

deniter

I'm ignoring each and every game that claims to be an mmorpg and has group finder, auto-pathing, sparkling quest objectives, etc.

If that means i can no longer play mmorpgs, so be it.

But it looks like this title still holds some water, so i'm definitely gonna give it a shot.

SavageHorizon

LoudWisper said:

I get it.  I understand why this game can be popular and is needed by many.  But is this a pendulum swing in the opposite direction to far?  With no group finder do anyone not see the frustration it will bring to not being able to find a group to do what you want to do?  

I have only done a small amount of research on this game but that stood out or have I missed a follow up?   I can just remember when group finder was introduced to mmo's  it was amazing.  It now has caused nostalgia goggles to "remember when"  oh those were great times.  No actually waiting hours to find a group sucked.  

I will though keep a watch out at this game but that alone has put a pause to back the game.  

I guess you never played EQ or even heard of sense heading. Guess you will have to stick to mmo's that offer you that important tool you seem to need. Hopefully lack of features like group finder will keep some people away, the game is not being made for the masses. 

RexKushman

No group finder only works if they also eliminate global chat. No EZmode grouping in chat, that stuff is for blizz fanboys. Walk to where you want to do group content then stand there and spam local chat. Thats how real gamers do it.

LoudWisper

You can socialize if the objective takes an hour but to spend an additional hour or two looking for people to help you then an hour or two doing the task.  That is entertaining?  I get the social part, I get the moving away from WoW group done and leave without saying a word.  That bugs me also and understand the move away from that but you can still have the need to have social questing and have a way to have players look for others wanting to explore the same area.  

WellzyC

Group finder only breeds antisocial behavior. People will not care about their reputation among players. Mega servers/finders make a mmo empty and shallow.

 On a server of a thousand or so, if you ditched grps or acted like a donkey, people didn't grp with you. It was in your best interest to be nice.

that's why games like EQ and DAOC were so much fun. You knew most of the people you played with. You recognize players and guilds walking around the city, you remember their names in chat. It was large enough to feel like a community and small enough where people's actions/attitudes mattered. 

Dullahan

Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.

WellzyC

Dullahan said:

Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.

All of this, please and thank you.

LoudWisper

Dullahan said:

Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.

That was all I was asking.  Was not looking for any of those other things.  If this is true I will begin watching this game more closely.  I would have posted on the game sites boards but email confirmation does not seem to be working.  

Weird i was accused for trying to change the game and genre for asking about something that is possibly in the game anyways.  I may have not been there for EQ (played in AC(beta'd)) but I very much have played DAoC  so have played mmo's for a very long time.  Stellar Emperor was my first mmo.   

ste2000

Dullahan said:

Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.

Like EQ2.
You had a list of LFG people, but unlike other games you don't get automatically put into a group, you actually have to ask that player if he wants to group up.
And there is not instant travel.

I can live with that.

gervaise1

deniter said:

I'm ignoring each and every game that claims to be an mmorpg and has group finder, auto-pathing, sparkling quest objectives, etc.

If that means i can no longer play mmorpgs, so be it.

But it looks like this title still holds some water, so i'm definitely gonna give it a shot.

Obviously Pantheon isn't for you.

flizzer

There is a group finder in LOTRO but almost no one uses.  Some people are surprised when I tell them it exists. 

k61977

I prefer games that have a group finder myself, they don't have to auto add to group and transport you to the others, but at least let me create a group and put it in a list where people can whisper me to join or I them.  But to be honest standing around and shouting LFG or LF.....just gets old very, very fast anymore.  Also unless they have a channel for that particularly I will start blocking players that just keep spamming in world chat in most games, gets old see the same thing spammed 100 times because no one wants to join the group someone has. 

Not having a group finders doesn't make a community better, it just makes people stand around and spam chat to find groups.  Most of the time they don't care or talk anymore now than they do with group finders when they find someone anymore.  Times have changed and a lot of players myself include don't have time to just sit and do nothing while we try and get a group.  That is one of the reason I don't raid anymore, got tired of sitting for an hour to just get started doing things in games.

Dullahan

Depends if by group finder he meant one that automatically pairs you up and transports you to the group. There will be a system to help you find people, but it ends there.

Some details on matchmaking in Pantheon

Nilden

If joining a group is clicking a button then sitting in town in a queue only to have some random people that might as well be bots, who I will never see again, never talk to even while doing the group, and have no chance or desire to socialize with or form any type of friendship...

I'll take shouting in chat and sending people tells any day of the week.

kitarad

I agree group finder that ports you to dungeons are horrible no thank you.

Krimzin

Group finders were the beginning of the end for social MMOs. Ive done 100s of dungeons where no one said a word. 
With Pantheon not offering a Group Finder it will force people to interact and socialize. If you aren't a social player, why are you playing an MMO?

Pantheon is about more than just a straight MMO. It is by design a Group Centric MMO where you will need groups for most activities. Being social will allow you to get into groups easier and will help guilds maintain a player base.

No group finder is a blessing.

Another solid point for playing Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

WellzyC

Nilden said:

If joining a group is clicking a button then sitting in town in a queue only to have some random people that might as well be bots, who I will never see again, never talk to even while doing the group, and have no chance or desire to socialize with or form any type of friendship...

I'll take shouting in chat and sending people tells any day of the week.

AUgh  exactly how I feel.  All the mega server/grp finder games boast they are so massive, but they feel shallow since you will likely never see the same ppl twice.

You are right, they might as well be bots.

LoudWisper

Krimzin said:

Group finders were the beginning of the end for social MMOs. Ive done 100s of dungeons where no one said a word. 
With Pantheon not offering a Group Finder it will force people to interact and socialize. If you aren't a social player, why are you playing an MMO?

Pantheon is about more than just a straight MMO. It is by design a Group Centric MMO where you will need groups for most activities. Being social will allow you to get into groups easier and will help guilds maintain a player base.

No group finder is a blessing.

Another solid point for playing Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

I guess I see it differently,  I see that making instances and dungeons easier and also the call for all mmo's open world to be mostly solo-able was the begging of the end.  When EQ and DaoC were on one side and AC (mostly) was on the other and WoW came along and quest hubs that were 99% solo-able.  Yes dungeons and raids back then needed to be grouped well.  

I do not feel that the implantation of group finder to a dungeon that needs to be cc'd and needs communication kills a game.   

fs23otm

Instant group dungeons... no thank you.

Cross server groups... definitely no thank you. 

A list of groups looking for people... or people looking for a group... Good tool to help foster community!

Going to the zone and using zone chat to LFG spam... Hardcore cause I'm a man, Good!

The last two are acceptable... the first two are cancers....

goboygo

Group finders are for games that don't really need guilds, where all the content can be soloed  so people haven't taken the time to develop any relations in the game.  So the only way they can get a group is with a dungeon finder.

Hokanu99

LoudWisper said:

Dullahan said:

Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.

That was all I was asking.  Was not looking for any of those other things.  If this is true I will begin watching this game more closely.  I would have posted on the game sites boards but email confirmation does not seem to be working.   

I had the same issue with the forums initially, I emailed support directly and they verified my account and i was in the forums very quickly,  suggest you do the same if you haven't already!  See ya in the forums.

Hokanu99

Torval said:

goboygo said:

Group finders are for games that don't really need guilds, where all the content can be soloed  so people haven't taken the time to develop any relations in the game.  So the only way they can get a group is with a dungeon finder.

Why would a solo player need a group finder? They play solo. If they used the group finder to play the game then they would be groupers waiting for a group. This isn't rocket science, or so I thought.

You know who wants grouping tools? Groupers who like to play the game.

What he means is the solo players will eventually need to group for some content (assuming all content in generic said mmo isnt 100% soloable) and at that point they will need a group finder because they have not made any friends.  

@Dullahan has said it pretty much perfectly... there will be a tool/tools for grouping but not instant porta group finders. This also goes a long way to making your in game reputation matter when a group leader is deciding between 2 people of same class who are requesting to join a group which in turn helps to better the community and give people more reason to be community builders not so toxic.  All positive things in my opinion to creating a strong community and make Pantheon more like a living world than just another mmo

Wizardry

Someone mentioned about bad ideas for grouping and good and i  agree.Instant auto group dungeons is extremely lame,something i would expect from Blizzard because they have no clue about immersion or proper rpg game design.

Personally i don't want to see a game turned into a dungeon raid Boss killing game,Wow is that way,i have already played far more of that type of gaming than i want to do anymore.

I really don't know the perfect answer and it sure seems none of the devs do either.I am quite certain we will see more generic gaming,best gear attained in Dungeon Boss fight.Like i said,i don't know the perfect answer but i sure as hell wish a developer can figure it out and give us a more immersive world all the whiel not giving another Wow  clone part 5,000,000,001.

Albatroes

It may sound weird, but mmos aren't about a single individual how the game is tailored to them. It was original about people working together and often compromising the things they wanted for themselves to help others, so in turn those people that were helped could do the same. Sure, auto grouping and dungeon finders are great, but as was mentioned before, they breed an anti-social and also greedy atmosphere. "Why dont they just put this in dungeon finder sooner so >>> I <<< can get it done when >>> I <<< want?" "Why do >>> I <<< have to find people for this content?" But grouping assistence tools have existed for at least a decade and a half with Ragnarok Online and FFXI. They didn't build the groups for you but they allowed people to search and even put comments next to their names what they wanted to do (at least FFXI did), which should be more than enough.

MadFrenchie

I think a LFG flag system is fine.  If they aren't going to implement porting to the group leader, I'd like to see a class/skill line or two with a spell that ports players.  I feel that's a fair compromise.

I heartily agree that mega servers/cross-server grouping is detrimental to MMORPGs as an experience.  I, too, think that 1,000-3,000 player servers are ideal as folks can achieve some sense of persistent identity in the world.