New kind of MMORPGs without the element of warthemes?

TENTING

Maybe its my age showing or maybe its other contributing factors, maybe the nurture gene kicks in and warthemes becomes tiresome.
 I cant say precisely what it is, but over time I have grown tired of war and violence in games as a core element.
 
 Its not that I mind developers creating these games, its nothing like that. I have enjoyed beating up one boss after the other for years.

Then one day, I picked up yet another character/alt and realized that to get my character anywhere, within the games design, I had to go on yet another killing spree for who knows what time in my gaming history.

 Occasionally I have had to wonder if this is how it ends, my MMORPG gaming. That a hero is done when he/she leaves the games world entirely.

 Or is there a hope, a chance, that just a single company out there, would be helpful and create a nice quality MMORPG, that does not have a core that balance around killing things.

 Now I am not looking for older games that may have been made. I have been spoiled rotten over time by modern worlds technology and when I pick up a new game these days, part of the thrill of loading into a new world is to see the amazing high texture graphics and amazing artwork.

 But is it possible?

Can an MMORPG have a different core?

I mean I am first off tired of just beating up things, then chasing gear, then beating up some harder mobs, till I end up in  raids that I have to participate in till my brain starts hurting from the constant repetition.
And after years listening to new people from game to game, having the exact same boring arguments about what people do wrong, whos to blame, what the next strategy have to be. And then eat my food, refresh my flasks and here we go again, rinse and repeat.

Dont get me wrong though, I lived and breathed for that kind of gameplay for years, its just over time, after you have encounter several walls of burn out, returning, then burn out, then returning, it becomes a way of life in games. And then finally its over, cant do it anymore.

Then I have tried turning to PvP. I dont like WPVP, even I have played that kind of game for longer periods of time every now and then, but Im a PvEer through and through. Interruptions during a games other content, like questing and grinding, it got tiresome.

I do still like bgs though, but only playing bgs in an MMORPG, that should be this amazing experience, makes me feel like I might aswell play a MOBA, but MOBA lacks elements like, dressing up your character,  mount collecting, pet collecting, treasure hunting, exploring the wilds, questing, professions (which I btw like a lot, but professions are often just a footnote in MMORPGs)

 But when there is only really bgs left to do, which Id originally only do as a little sparetime thing outside a games other content, then it turns a little little little game.

 So Im thinking maybe Im simply no longer cut out for "traditional" MMORPGs anymore.

 But I still like these games, I dont really want to let go, I love exploring new MMORPG worlds, watch a buzzing community.

So, and Im in no way asking or in any way demanding, that a game should be tailored to my needs. Sometimes what is lost is just lost, if thats how it has to be.

 But maybe, maybe some day we could figure out some ideas to come up with an MMORPG, where the core is different, where wars and raiding and PvP is the minigames in MMORPGs, rather than the two always competing elements in pretty much all the new titles we see.

 I know some builders games have been made, but due to lack of fighting people got bored, from what I have been told.

 I can understand this, I do like the occasional fun in bgs, even like a nonobligatory raid every now and then, dungeons, its all fine, Id just like to see a game that could maybe be more like, I dont know, SIMS? (In lack of imagination, but just to mention something that is not war)

 I used to like SIMS many years ago, but once its played through, its over and done.

 And Id really not like a pure one thing or the other. Id still like all the elements that current MMORPGs have, like raids and PvP, but Id like to merge a kind of SIMS into them maybe.

 Sorry this post is getting a bit long, I guess in a sense Im trying to come up with some ideas, but Im not managing well on my own.

 I need help with this one.

 What other things brings people together for a long time in games? When we look away from war and general conflicts? 

  What other things could a company add in a game, that would bring people to work together longterm? 

Really sorry it got so long , but I can understand why its been so hard for developers to come up with ideas, cause Im not having much succes comming up with anything either.   
 
 Maybe you guys can help?



  

LynxJSA

" But is it possible?
Can an MMORPG have a different core?"

Furcadia, A Tale in the Desert, Second Life, vMTV, There, Roblox.... many of them did have a different core. In the end, though, the EQ/WOW formula proved to be the most popular so everything followed suit. 

TENTING

LynxJSA said:

" But is it possible?
Can an MMORPG have a different core?"

Furcadia, A Tale in the Desert, Second Life, vMTV, There, Roblox.... many of them did have a different core. In the end, though, the EQ/WOW formula proved to be the most popular so everything followed suit. 

Of those you mentioned Im familiar with Second life, which comes close to a creating aspect that Id like to see in an MMORPG. The graphics were very off putting though and the game has a notorious reputation (dont think I have to elaborate).
And its not that I tend to choose my own path based on gossip, but I ended up only watching friends play it and could not get past how horrendous the game was to look at.
The whole casino, gambler thing that was in the game also made it appear even more cheap. (No offence to the fans of the game, its purely personal opinion)

 But a game like that, if it was redone in a modern version and with elements in current MMORPGs, could be something maybe.

 Thanks
 



  

Quizzical

If you want the latest and greatest graphics that only a handful of AAA games offer, then you're not allowed to be picky about the game mechanics that go with them.  If you really just want "doesn't look ancient", then you could give Uncharted Waters Online a go.  The game has combat, but isn't primarily about combat, as trading and exploration are as important to the game as combat.

If you like crafting, then you need to try A Tale in the Desert.  If you didn't realize that hard-core open world PVP with permadeath was possible in a game without combat, ATITD will clear that up for you.  If you don't like crafting, you won't like the game, though.

ApexTKM

I feel like simulator games are the very early stages of what you want I'm still not entirely sure though even after reading your post.

TENTING

Thanks guys

One of the things about older titles also is that, apart from outdated graphics and often horrible artwork, these games has been laid to rest by the world in this point in time.

 Whereas I love buzzing communities, tons of people in the game to make it seem alive and dynamic.

This is also largely why Id like a game that consists of everything, sure I personally like doing a bit of everything, with emphasis on crafting and creating things ( and new things that Im not yet aware of what is, that some devs will come up with some day), but I also enjoy many different kinds of people around me.

 I love having people around who fits into many different demografs and playstyles.
 

Mtheumer

I wanted a game that boils down to a "rescue simulator" and for villains, a "chaos simulator". I want to create a game world that, thanks to the current roster of heroes and villains, is in a state of balance that is upset by the advent of the new player-created superhumans. Your career as a hero starts as you are learning control of your powers against "street-level" thugs preventing muggings, assaults, arsons, etc. Your goal is not only becoming more skilled, but to establish a reputation with the population. Skill and reputation will determine the type of missions you can discover, but every mission will be measured by the amount of people that will be saved. Unlike other superhero games, I want to introduce new ways to save lives as your character progresses. Two of my favorite staples of superhero saves is the runaway train and the airplane rescue. Of course these are for your "Paragon" level superheroes, but rescues likes the suicide jumper and the runaway car rescues are ideal for lower level characters. The fun comes in the way players approach the rescue with their particular power sets. With every rescue, I want there to be numerous ways to achieve the same goal. For villains, generating fear in the population is the goal. Robbing banks is beneath a real villain, but doing so and getting away with it in a city full of heroes give the villain the infamy that shapes the missions he will have access to. The more elaborate the schemes, the more chaos you can cause and more you get noticed by well-known super villains. In both cases, heroes and villains will have access to more temp powers and unique costume pieces to help them stand out. In the end, the way you affect the population as either a savior or scourge, will affect how successful your character will become.

sunandshadow

I would think that ArcheAge has the best graphics of sandboxy crafting-focused MMOs.

Iselin

If you want state of the art graphics and an MMO where you can spend all of your time in non-fighting pursuits and still level your character while you do that, I can't think of a better example than Black Desert Online,

I didn't play it for a long time but when I did, I could spend whole days connecting trade networks, directing workers to craft the things I needed, manufacturing goods and taking them in my wagon to far-off locations to get better prices.

Even its fishing is satisfying and involves crafting boats and then better boats and exploring to find good fishing spots for rare fish. There are a lot, and I mean A LOT, of quests also associated with landing rare fish or specific trade runs.

BDO is still at its core very much a hack and slash game for killers but more than any other game I can think of, it can totally be played and enjoyed without it.

cameltosis

The overwhelming majority of MMOs are combat based, but when you think of the larger gaming world you'll find most games are. That doesn't mean that they couldn't work without combat, as there are plenty of games that don't have combat at all. 


I've spent a little bit of time thinking about why combat and violence is so prevalent in games. I think at the heart of all games is a start point, a goal and an obstacle to overcome via gameplay. The gameplay should be fun in-and-of-itself, but should also be rewarding, both in terms of visual feedback as well as actual rewards (loot, removal of the obstacle etc). 

Violence is simply a great fit for gaming. The gameplay itself is engaging, it is visually appealing (and usually aurally appealing too) and success allows you to progress, so it touches the right areas of the brain. It is winning a conflict, either against AI or other people, which makes us feel better. 


Other types of situations are a harder fit, particularly the gameplay bit. I know in my day-to-day life, most conflicts or obstacles that get in my way are overcome by thinking (doesn't translate to gameplay), talking (doesn't translate to gameplay) or working (chores at home, documenting or coding at work, neither translates well into gameplay). The same is true for most people I think. 



That said, I believe MMOs face a further problem - translating gameplay into something suitable for massively-multiplayer interaction. Something like Cities: Skylines, a great game with no combat or violence. How would you translate that into something massively-multiplayer? In order to be able to move around and meet other people (and thus fulfil the massively-multiplayer criteria), you really need some sort of in game representation of yourself which then rules out quite a few gaming genres, such as RTSes and other builders, a lot of puzzlers, card trading games etc. 

Then, even when you can translate from single-player to MMO, there are other things standing in the way. A lot of the types of games I'm thinking of (such as crafting-focused games) lack the fun gameplay side of things. The games can look pretty, have goals and objectives etc, but the actual minute-to-minute gameplay often lacks the immediate feedback (like visuals of people being blown up, or a car drifting round a corner) and instead relies on longer term rewards (such as increased money from selling crafted goods). That style of game has much less mass appeal. 



Its always good to have suggestions in these types of threads, so here is one I'd love to see: a skateboarding MMO. 

The core skateboarding mechanics would be those from the SKATE series of games (3 games in 360 era). You'd have massive open maps that the players could explore and unlock at their leisure. Each map would have "PvE" challenges, just like the single-player Skate games, which allow you to raise you reputation and earn money to unlock gear. Players themselves would be able to set challenges and invite others, for example, creating a race down a massive hill and then inviting people to race you, thus getting the PvP aspect in. Then there could be bigger, sponsored competitions that would be server-wide - round 1 lasts 7 days and you get 3 attempts to set a high score. Top 50% go through to round 2 etc. 

That'd be the core of the game. Then I'd add more MMO aspects - add in guilds. Allow guilds to open shops so that people can craft and sell their items. Some people might specialise in boards, others in trucks, others in wheels, others still in skatepark ramps etc. Instead of housing, each player gets their own personal warehouse where they can build their own skatepark and invite others to join them. Perhaps allow players to place their own objects in the real world, but have some sort of mechanism that cleans up these items within 6 hours of being placed to stop clutter. Maybe allow players to be "community police" and give them in game cash for removing publicly placed items (more pvp). Perhaps add additional hobbies, like spray painting, to do when you're bored. Future expansions could add more sports, line roller blading or BMX'ing. 

/dreaming

TENTING

Hmm, I like that Cameltosis. I like the idea of sports in an MMORPG.

I could see surfing and beach related sports being fun also.
Actually any kind of sports would be fun I think, its easy to get addicted to in games.

And crafting could easily be part of the game. Who would not want to dress up in the latest fashion beachwear to cheer on your favorite teams?

Have to say it takes a flight away from my favorite Victorian era, but if the graphics and artwork would look like the developers actually take their sports MMORPG serious and at the same time can implement humor in a great way, then Id be onboard.

Kyleran

EVE. Core design is around players killing others.

Yet many people spend of their game time not killing things.

You can be a miner, market trading mogul, transportation (hauler) specialist, or explorer to name a few.

Oh yes don't forget scamming (a real profession for some) industrialist (most of what's in EVE is player crafted), planetary exploration/production  and for the hardcore you can manage a major corporation or alliance.(you'll never have time to actually go out and kill something.)

All of this with relevant, up to date graphics, and I saw 40K logged in Friday afternoon, so plenty of folks to interact with.

So it has everything you asked for, and to save you time I've provided the likely reasons you don't/won't play it:

1) I don't want to be a space ship.
2) I don't like space games.
3) EVE's full of asshats and scammer, even the developers at CCP. (well true. But plenty of good people too.
4) EVE's too old, everyone is too far ahead, I'll never catch up. (irrelevant, but a topic covered in other threads.)
5) It's "P2W!!! (Calm down, its not, again see other threads.)

So that should about cover it. If none of those apply give EVE a shot, its free to try on an extended basis with the recent introduction of Omega clones.

TENTING

Kyleran said:

EVE. Core design is around players killing others.

Yet many people spend of their game time not killing things.

You can be a miner, market trading mogul, transportation (hauler) specialist, or explorer to name a few.

Oh yes don't forget scamming (a real profession for some) industrialist (most of what's in EVE is player crafted), planetary exploration/production  and for the hardcore you can manage a major corporation or alliance.(you'll never have time to actually go out and kill something.)

All of this with relevant, up to date graphics, and I saw 40K logged in Friday afternoon, so plenty of folks to interact with.

So it has everything you asked for, and to save you time I've provided the likely reasons you don't/won't play it:

1) I don't want to be a space ship.
2) I don't like space games.
3) EVE's full of asshats and scammer, even the developers at CCP. (well true. But plenty of good people too.
4) EVE's too old, everyone is too far ahead, I'll never catch up. (irrelevant, but a topic covered in other threads.)
5) It's "P2W!!! (Calm down, its not, again see other threads.)

So that should about cover it. If none of those apply give EVE a shot, its free to try on an extended basis with the recent introduction of Omega clones.

1 and 2 fits the shoe!

3: Would be, that I am simply not clever enough for a game such as that. I tried it once, somehow after 30 min. managed to move my spaceship and had not a single clue how to move again. :proud:  Ran back to my flying mounts in WoW and felt very reliefed!

Muke

TENTING said:

Kyleran said:

EVE. Core design is around players killing others.

Yet many people spend of their game time not killing things.

You can be a miner, market trading mogul, transportation (hauler) specialist, or explorer to name a few.

Oh yes don't forget scamming (a real profession for some) industrialist (most of what's in EVE is player crafted), planetary exploration/production  and for the hardcore you can manage a major corporation or alliance.(you'll never have time to actually go out and kill something.)

All of this with relevant, up to date graphics, and I saw 40K logged in Friday afternoon, so plenty of folks to interact with.

So it has everything you asked for, and to save you time I've provided the likely reasons you don't/won't play it:

1) I don't want to be a space ship.
2) I don't like space games.
3) EVE's full of asshats and scammer, even the developers at CCP. (well true. But plenty of good people too.
4) EVE's too old, everyone is too far ahead, I'll never catch up. (irrelevant, but a topic covered in other threads.)
5) It's "P2W!!! (Calm down, its not, again see other threads.)

So that should about cover it. If none of those apply give EVE a shot, its free to try on an extended basis with the recent introduction of Omega clones.

1 and 2 fits the shoe!

3: Would be, that I am simply not clever enough for a game such as that. I tried it once, somehow after 30 min. managed to move my spaceship and had not a single clue how to move again. :proud:  Ran back to my flying mounts in WoW and felt very reliefed!

It's a nasty habit.

I tend to send fmr WoW players that try EVE back to their Azeroth game, as they are usually the easiest targets in this challenging sci fi game. :P

Vermillion_Raventhal

Almost all MMORPG are based around end of the world and you are the one last true action hero.  So good luck on that.

TheRealBanango

Sure, I believe we will see some more non combat mmos in the future.

If you base the game around something like exploration/survival you can essentially have an open world treasure hunting mmo for example. Teams of explorers can work together do climb mountains or dive into caves a la tomb raider, throw in some parkour mechanics and a crafting system to make rope and everything needed to adventure and maybe it might be exciting enough to keep playing. Thats just one idea.

4507

I've always thought that an MMO with dancing as a replacement for combat could work well as a novelty hook. Could be set in 18th century Vienna (Waltz), the Old West (Square Dancing), 1960s America (Disco), or any number of other greatly varied and interesting settings.

Gamer54321

Exploration, puzzle solving, travel and survival. And other creative things like eh player housing, custom made items. Persistent world.

Flyte27

I am somewhat similar, but different.  I miss being able to play a class like thief that isn't about killing, but it's also not about be a wholesome and good person either.  It's about scaling walls, sneaking into buildings, stealing treasures, and going on adventures.

My main gripe with modern day MMORPGs is they are too structured because they fear the chaos that will ensue with freedom.  You have the solo game where people quickly and easily level up.  Some argue this is just for the "story".  Then you have the raiding at endgame to get the best loot.  Finally you might have some PvP in a very controlled environment to get to the top of the leader board.

I find it a bit sad that the original premise of these games was to go on a grand adventure and instead it's reduce to a very mechanical and structured process that is more about getting loot than it is about going on an adventure.

In old D&D you had classes that weren't always tied to combat.  They made a contribution to combat, but it wasn't always their primary function.

In Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies many people would just play as a crafter.  They would explore, find the best nodes, and ply their wares.

I would be fairly happy to see these structured MMOs fall and MMOs to become a more niche market again.  I don't think that will happen, but anything is possible.

Distopia

SWG had a number of ways to play that didn't involve killing. Entertainer professions, DOC/Buffers, Droid Engineers, creature tamers, Chefs, Weapon/armor manufacturing, City building/management, interior decorating, etc....

sunandshadow

Puzzle Pirates, Wizard 101, and Pirate 101 could maybe be considered MMOs without a wartheme...?