I cannot argue with what Dullahan said but it worries me that far too many are "satisfied" with ho hum.
EQ needed to be and SHOULD be improved and that is what i expect from this game.If you want to label it is a EQ clone that is fine by me but improve on it because EQ1 is not good enough by 2017 standards.Graphic improvements are not good enough,i would play FFXIV in a heartbeat if that was good enough.
I have a ton of confidence in Brad and his visions but his system designers,not so much.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
i dont want to play the old Magi , nowadays would be kinda boring , i want a pet class that has some kind of synergy with the pet , and both destroy the enemies , i dont want pets to be "animated dots" like eq/eq2
and is true that the old Eq did tons of good stuff , but we are in 2017 ,imagine camping to change spells , or resting for 15 min , or 2h to get your corpse back
From a class role and balance standpoint EQ "got it right" IMO so an emulation of that is not too surprising and I think will work well. Should there be some diversity in HOW the classes get things done? I think so but I trust VR knows what they are doing.
As an example of change however, I'd like to see the Crusader as more of a tanky defensive Bard that can either provide direct tanking or use abilities that "echo" group effects to play a support role as well. Some twists like this could serve Pantheon well.
i dont want to play the old Magi , nowadays would be kinda boring , i want a pet class that has some kind of synergy with the pet , and both destroy the enemies , i dont want pets to be "animated dots" like eq/eq2
and is true that the old Eq did tons of good stuff , but we are in 2017 ,imagine camping to change spells , or resting for 15 min , or 2h to get your corpse back
Even more importantly, I wouldn't want to see the melee classes play like the ones from EQ. I'm referring to those pure melee types, not the spell-caster hybrids.
Warrior and rogue in EQ were arguably the most boring classes of all time. This is an area where WoW actually did a great job evolving. They managed to make those classes fun and engaging.
EQ Monk was "ok"... not great, but bearable.
I don't really see this as an issue, though. It would be nearly impossible to make melee classes that are that boring in today's design environment, thankfully.
Isn't EQ in a different skin what this has been about from the get go?...I thought people were tired of the WoW clones and wanted a game that was more old school?...Make up your minds.
Read what the thread is actually about, the first post made, instead of reading a headline and reply to you assumption of that.
Changed the the headline now since too many obviously just read and reply to that....
Yes alot of us do just go by the thread title and dont read the initial posts...Sorry if that offends
Isn't EQ in a different skin what this has been about from the get go?...I thought people were tired of the WoW clones and wanted a game that was more old school?...Make up your minds.
Read what the thread is actually about, the first post made, instead of reading a headline and reply to you assumption of that.
Changed the the headline now since too many obviously just read and reply to that....
Yes alot of us do just go by the thread title and dont read the initial posts...Sorry if that offends
Offends? lmao, no.... it just provides a good laugh due to how clueless the resulting posts are...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Isn't EQ in a different skin what this has been about from the get go?...I thought people were tired of the WoW clones and wanted a game that was more old school?...Make up your minds.
Read what the thread is actually about, the first post made, instead of reading a headline and reply to you assumption of that.
Changed the the headline now since too many obviously just read and reply to that....
Yes I do just go by the thread title and dont read the initial posts...Sorry if that offends
Fixed that for you.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
To be honest I would prefer the devs to follow Vanguard's example of class development compared to EQ's. Vanguard outside of EQ's Enchanter have my favourite classes from a MMO. Vanguard had so many great classes, for example Blood Mage and Disciple shook up the ways to heal. Making your own songs with the Bard. Tanking with the Dread Knight made you feel you could take on the whole zone and of course the Necro with it's faithful abomination actually allowing the player to raise the dead from vanquished enemies and lastly VG was the first tab target MMO I've came across that allowed you to move while casting spells.
If I was the Pantheon dev team I would concentrate on making the classes follow the VG template, even if that means the game launches with fewer classes to begin with. You can always add classes after release and it will give the player base something to look forward too and also increase retention and replayability.
To be honest I would prefer the devs to follow Vanguard's example of class development compared to EQ's. Vanguard outside of EQ's Enchanter have my favourite classes from a MMO. Vanguard had so many great classes, for example Blood Mage and Disciple shook up the ways to heal. Making your own songs with the Bard. Tanking with the Dread Knight made you feel you could take on the whole zone and of course the Necro with it's faithful abomination actually allowing the player to raise the dead from vanquished enemies and lastly VG was the first tab target MMO I've came across that allowed you to move while casting spells.
If I was the Pantheon dev team I would concentrate on making the classes follow the VG template, even if that means the game launches with fewer classes to begin with. You can always add classes after release and it will give the player base something to look forward too and also increase retention and replayability.
Vanguard classes weren't bad. One thing I didn't like though was the ability to have all of your attacks and spells on your hot bar at the same time.
Limiting the amount of spells available at a time is something I think EQ had right. That, and making auto attack meaningful.
I think a good balance between the two class systems is the best direction to go in.
Vanguard's classes and Vanguard's combat were two different things. I loved the classes. Were they to limit the number of active abilities and have EQ's resources management and downtime, that would be the best of both worlds for me.
To be honest I would prefer the devs to follow Vanguard's example of class development compared to EQ's. Vanguard outside of EQ's Enchanter have my favourite classes from a MMO. Vanguard had so many great classes, for example Blood Mage and Disciple shook up the ways to heal. Making your own songs with the Bard. Tanking with the Dread Knight made you feel you could take on the whole zone and of course the Necro with it's faithful abomination actually allowing the player to raise the dead from vanquished enemies and lastly VG was the first tab target MMO I've came across that allowed you to move while casting spells.
If I was the Pantheon dev team I would concentrate on making the classes follow the VG template, even if that means the game launches with fewer classes to begin with. You can always add classes after release and it will give the player base something to look forward too and also increase retention and replayability.
Vanguard classes weren't bad. One thing I didn't like though was the ability to have all of your attacks and spells on your hot bar at the same time.
Limiting the amount of spells available at a time is something I think EQ had right. That, and making auto attack meaningful.
I think a good balance between the two class systems is the best direction to go in.
I agree regarding ability bloat (EQ2 looking at you). You could be right, that a happy medium between the two systems may be the best.
One thing I liked about EQ was it tried to make you think what spells are going to be needed for a certain situation. It would be nice if Pantheon follows this route that it would allow the player to set up pre-made hot bars which you could switch (out of combat) for certain situations, for example buffing, type of mob etc.
I hope the game is more like the early EQ. I think some contested raid mobs like the early dragons (solb, ect) in EQ would be fine. I guess I left EQ long before the time of the "72 man raids". We did the early dragons with 18 people and the early raids like Hate, Plane of Air, ect with usually 6 groups or 36 people. I really hope any raid in Pantheon is closer to the 18 person size. I also hope they give a EQ style bard back, I really miss my old one.
I hope the game is more like the early EQ. I think some contested raid mobs like the early dragons (solb, ect) in EQ would be fine. I guess I left EQ long before the time of the "72 man raids". We did the early dragons with 18 people and the early raids like Hate, Plane of Air, ect with usually 6 groups or 36 people. I really hope any raid in Pantheon is closer to the 18 person size. I also hope they give a EQ style bard back, I really miss my old one.
EQ1 bard was my favorite class of any MMO I have played. Of course it helped that my wife and I played together (she was a druid) so she could help me chat - twisting songs constantly didn't leave me much time
A bard and druid duo was a nasty combo - we could kill anything outside that didn't summon. When we were in a full group she could main heal with the help of mana song. There is a good dose of rose-colored glasses, but they were good times...
I want the fear of death to become a reality in games again!! Corpse run, loot on corpse for only 1 day, and you lose all the exp you gained during that play session!!!! Lets make it happen!!!
Yeah let's not, we're some that grew older, got less time and have a career and family...
I have all those as well. No pain no gain!!! Or old UO fear would do the trick. should we build safe zones for people?
Isn't EQ in a different skin what this has been about from the get go?...I thought people were tired of the WoW clones and wanted a game that was more old school?...Make up your minds.
Agreed. I believe as the game has become more and more popular, people are now trying to change it to fit their own preferences, rather than supporting the original vision of the game from 2014.
If the game tries to satisfy everyone, it will end up satisfying no one.
Well how to put this. Hrrmmm. This is the result you get when you keep trying to generate hype and buzz for a game that's still in development. Especially so with one with retro features. The more you guys keep making discussion posts to keep the game on the front page the more not really interested rubbernecking busybodies are going to keep turning up to kibitz.
No need to keep trying to make threads b/c everyone knows Pantheon, CU & Crowfall 2017-18
Honestly I think they should release with about 6-8 classes that are well developed and then slowly add the others. It is way easier to get the playing audience what they want when you hear what they are complaining about with the existing game!
If the need is a buffer class, maybe focus on making one of the up and coming classes more buff friendly. If a lot of people are unhappy with melee DPS, maybe take an up and coming melee type that matches better with player requests. I'm not talking, "I want a class that will kill a room of bosses with one swing of the sword!" I'm saying that maybe the lack is a melee type with fast attacks that do less damage, or maybe what the game needs is a heavy hitter with slower attacks.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
VR always seems to refer to their own classes as if they were the same as they use to be in EQ [...]
I agree. Classes are very important to me. The main reason why I could play Vanguard so much is because the classes have been so much fun. Even after years I still found new ways to play my characters, even after years I could still work on optimizing them.
In Pantheon, it seems that no longer has priority that playing a class is a challenge, something complex you have to learn. And its the return of strong race and class stereotypes. In Vanguard a Dread Knight might lean a bit to the dark side, and he could be evil - but he wasnt outright evil per se. I much prefer that.
Even if they copy 95% of EQ it still sets them apart because the game is so different from everything else in the past 15 years. When everyone is copying WoW or asian DBZ grinders, an EQ copy is unique by default.
I'm not 100% sure if this information is still accurate (it was from 3 years ago after all), but during the Kickstarter they went into some detail on how they plan for 8 of the classes to play.
I actually like that the classes in Pantheon look similar to the ones in EQ. We obviously don't want a carbon copy of EQ -- but the game did get some things right. No class was too much like another -- even if they could do a similar job in the group. To me, it was the perfect balance of not too specific but not too broad.
I don't think a game's classes has to be new and unique in order for the game itself to be new and unique. Generally they are just gimmicky remakes of things like warriors, wizards, and rogues anyway. I wasn't a big fan of the classes in Elder Scrolls Online for example.
Comments
EQ needed to be and SHOULD be improved and that is what i expect from this game.If you want to label it is a EQ clone that is fine by me but improve on it because EQ1 is not good enough by 2017 standards.Graphic improvements are not good enough,i would play FFXIV in a heartbeat if that was good enough.
I have a ton of confidence in Brad and his visions but his system designers,not so much.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
and is true that the old Eq did tons of good stuff , but we are in 2017 ,imagine camping to change spells , or resting for 15 min , or 2h to get your corpse back
As an example of change however, I'd like to see the Crusader as more of a tanky defensive Bard that can either provide direct tanking or use abilities that "echo" group effects to play a support role as well. Some twists like this could serve Pantheon well.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
Warrior and rogue in EQ were arguably the most boring classes of all time. This is an area where WoW actually did a great job evolving. They managed to make those classes fun and engaging.
EQ Monk was "ok"... not great, but bearable.
I don't really see this as an issue, though. It would be nearly impossible to make melee classes that are that boring in today's design environment, thankfully.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
If I was the Pantheon dev team I would concentrate on making the classes follow the VG template, even if that means the game launches with fewer classes to begin with. You can always add classes after release and it will give the player base something to look forward too and also increase retention and replayability.
Limiting the amount of spells available at a time is something I think EQ had right. That, and making auto attack meaningful.
I think a good balance between the two class systems is the best direction to go in.
I agree regarding ability bloat (EQ2 looking at you). You could be right, that a happy medium between the two systems may be the best.
One thing I liked about EQ was it tried to make you think what spells are going to be needed for a certain situation. It would be nice if Pantheon follows this route that it would allow the player to set up pre-made hot bars which you could switch (out of combat) for certain situations, for example buffing, type of mob etc.
A bard and druid duo was a nasty combo - we could kill anything outside that didn't summon. When we were in a full group she could main heal with the help of mana song. There is a good dose of rose-colored glasses, but they were good times...
btw I like your sig.
If the need is a buffer class, maybe focus on making one of the up and coming classes more buff friendly. If a lot of people are unhappy with melee DPS, maybe take an up and coming melee type that matches better with player requests. I'm not talking, "I want a class that will kill a room of bosses with one swing of the sword!" I'm saying that maybe the lack is a melee type with fast attacks that do less damage, or maybe what the game needs is a heavy hitter with slower attacks.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
In Pantheon, it seems that no longer has priority that playing a class is a challenge, something complex you have to learn. And its the return of strong race and class stereotypes. In Vanguard a Dread Knight might lean a bit to the dark side, and he could be evil - but he wasnt outright evil per se. I much prefer that.
Cleric:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/728886
Dire Lord (previously called the Dark Knight)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/728920
Crusader:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/728324
Rogue:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/735588
Enchanter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/738030
Wizard:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/741187
Shaman:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/744802
Summoner:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts/753086
After reading the links above, you will see that the Pantheon classes do deviate from EverQuest 1.
I don't think a game's classes has to be new and unique in order for the game itself to be new and unique. Generally they are just gimmicky remakes of things like warriors, wizards, and rogues anyway. I wasn't a big fan of the classes in Elder Scrolls Online for example.