Vanilla WoW, and modern WoW are two totally different games, it happens that some people like more the Vanilla version than the current one. Why that would be such an outrageous thing to accept?
I'd like a Model T but doubt I can convince Ford Motor Company it's in their best interests to start a new production of them. They are moving forward and making the product they are more interested in making. They don't want to go back no matter how much a "blast from the past" might twitterpate Model T fans.
Maybe I should make a petition.....
Agree, Ford has the right to look forward. However you can still find some Model T around and restore it. Ford is not going to get you an injunction forbidding you to restore the car and resell it. Which is what Blizzard is doing basically.
I agree Blizzard is entitled to do what they like with their IP. However if they do not intend to make their own Vanilla Servers, they should allow fans to run their own as long as is not for Commercial reasons (Like EQ and P99).
It is also not something unheard of for Developers to open their own Legacy Servers, Daybreak did it with EQ and EQ2 for example. I just don't see what damage could do to Blizzard acquiring the Nostalrious code (which is free) and booting up a couple of their own servers, and charge a subscription for it.
The analogy wasn't made as a serious comparison of the two issues, but more of a gentle poke at the idea that companies must cater to their former fans by bringing back a now-outdated product. That said, if a company suddenly started making Model Ts using the original product design documents without express written approval of Ford Motor Company, you can bet the legal documentation would start flying.
This is probably one of the worst websites to discuss anything private server related because these topics always devolve into the same spiel from people whose only interactions and knowledge of private servers come from news articles. I could make a drinking game out of it, anytime someone says something like:
"Nostalrius has x population, blizzard has 7 billion subscribers" Then they go on about why they shouldn't make official vanilla servers. or "I'm glad blizzard is finally doing something, I hope they hang the nostalrius team!!" or "The nostalrius devs/players are immature/children/entitled" or "Nostalrius are thieves!! THIEVES! I'm so mad they stole my---I mean blizzards property!"
I would be dead from alcohol poisoning before the 2nd page.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we can actually discuss this topic here, as a lot of websites just outright refuse to allow any talks at all about the private server scene but jesus christ, can we call this a discussion at this point?
Topics like this really expose peoples ignorance on the subject of private servers, the legality of it, and their own knowledge of the people who run the servers. It isn't such a black-and-white cut-and-dried subject that most of you make it out to be.
Vanilla WoW, and modern WoW are two totally different games, it happens that some people like more the Vanilla version than the current one. Why that would be such an outrageous thing to accept?
I'd like a Model T but doubt I can convince Ford Motor Company it's in their best interests to start a new production of them. They are moving forward and making the product they are more interested in making. They don't want to go back no matter how much a "blast from the past" might twitterpate Model T fans.
Maybe I should make a petition.....
Agree, Ford has the right to look forward. However you can still find some Model T around and restore it. Ford is not going to get you an injunction forbidding you to restore the car and resell it. Which is what Blizzard is doing basically.
I agree Blizzard is entitled to do what they like with their IP. However if they do not intend to make their own Vanilla Servers, they should allow fans to run their own as long as is not for Commercial reasons (Like EQ and P99).
It is also not something unheard of for Developers to open their own Legacy Servers, Daybreak did it with EQ and EQ2 for example. I just don't see what damage could do to Blizzard acquiring the Nostalrious code (which is free) and booting up a couple of their own servers, and charge a subscription for it.
Well because that one car was already paid for and the same can't be said for WoW because it involved a initial and monthly purchase. It was never in any agreement on Blizz's part that players own the software, only access to it and I think this is where some arguments against Blizz come from, believing that any software purchased should be owned by that individual.
I agree with you that Blizzard should release legacy servers, due to obvious demand, but I don't think anyone is actually arguing that. The argument comes with whether Blizzard should be able to "own" their own product, either from a legal or principal standpoint. It is piracy to reconstruct WoW's "legacy" software and redistribute it to others due to the monthly subscription requirement mentioned above. This is even assuming that each player who would play it originally purchased WoW in the first place.
Personally, it's up to Blizzard how they handle this and I don't care what people do with themselves as long as their willing to be honest about what their doing. This is a game though. A form of entertainment. It absolutely cannot be compared to life saving or sustaining medications and in doing so grossly overestimates the importance of video games.
I'm not saying what they did was right, because we all know it isn't legal,
/snip
Just this and it's more than enough to be against what Nost and now this new outfit has done. Unless it's not okay anymore to advocate following the law? You can complain all you want to that Blizzard is not providing what some players want but it's their product to do with what they want. I can understand the romanticism of the situation here but at the core is exactly what you yourself said. It's illegal.
Not wanting to parade this as anything more than it actually is, but the fallback of "this is illegal, so we shouldn't have done it and shouldn't do it in the future" is a regressive position to take. At one point in the UK, for example, women voting in general elections was illegal. Woman's rights movements used to fraudulently vote in such elections, and this illegal activity was a core reason why women ultimately got the franchise. As I said, I'm not suggesting that this even vaguely comes close to that sort of issue, but it's worth pointing out: most of your rights, most of your liberties, most of your freedoms, were secured on the back of illegal action by a minority. US Independence? In part a product of illegal activities. Parliamentary democracy in the UK? In part a product of illegal activities. The booming cannabis industry in the US? In part - a large part - a product of illegal activities.
Breaking the law is sometimes a perfectly legitimate way to achieve a set of goals, barring any other means of progress. Breaking the law, committing crimes, to achieve change is a historically tried, tested and proven way to achieve progressive and beneficial aims. For every organisation like Nost, that just does a lot of talking at this point, there must be organisations willing to demonstrate the resolve to change, because that's the only way that change happens. Blizzard are highly unlikely to ever put in place Legacy servers if there are no large communities demonstrating the appeal of legacy servers, right?
The analogy wasn't made as a serious comparison of the two issues, but more of a gentle poke at the idea that companies must cater to their former fans by bringing back a now-outdated product. That said, if a company suddenly started making Model Ts using the original product design documents without express written approval of Ford Motor Company, you can bet the legal documentation would start flying.
That's a better fitting analogy. But I don't think the argument should be whether Blizzard is entitled to shut illegal servers down, as legally they are entitled to do so, and I believe in the right of a company to protect their intellectual property. I think most of us are wondering why it is such a big deal to either authorize third party run servers or better open their own Legacy Servers. Other companies already did both, Daybreak supports P99 and also they made their own Legacy Servers. Blizzard is a much bigger Company yet they are making a big fuss about the whole situation, blowing it out of proportion. Sometimes I think Blizzard like the free publicity they are getting from the whole drama, there is no other plausible explanation.
Blizzard should release legacy servers and we can all watch the snivelling excuses from people who will then continue to play on the pirate servers. Just for the fun of watching them squirm when the numbers playing on them don't come anywhere near what they are on the pirated ones it would be worth it for that alone.
Blizzard should release legacy servers and we can all watch the snivelling excuses from people who will then continue to play on the pirate servers. Just for the fun of watching them squirm when the numbers playing on them don't come anywhere near what they are on the pirated ones it would be worth it for that alone.
This is probably one of the worst websites to discuss anything private server related because these topics always devolve into the same spiel from people whose only interactions and knowledge of private servers come from news articles. I could make a drinking game out of it, anytime someone says something like:
"Nostalrius has x population, blizzard has 7 billion subscribers" Then they go on about why they shouldn't make official vanilla servers. or "I'm glad blizzard is finally doing something, I hope they hang the nostalrius team!!" or "The nostalrius devs/players are immature/children/entitled" or "Nostalrius are thieves!! THIEVES! I'm so mad they stole my---I mean blizzards property!"
I would be dead from alcohol poisoning before the 2nd page.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we can actually discuss this topic here, as a lot of websites just outright refuse to allow any talks at all about the private server scene but jesus christ, can we call this a discussion at this point?
Topics like this really expose peoples ignorance on the subject of private servers, the legality of it, and their own knowledge of the people who run the servers. It isn't such a black-and-white cut-and-dried subject that most of you make it out to be.
And what does this contribute then? Except calling people ignorant while forgetting to ad anything of value yourself. And it really isn't that difficult as you are trying to make it.... at all. Funnily enough all the examples you quote are simply right, it is Blizzards product, they can do or not do with it whatever they want, the code being used/changed is Blizzards and obtained without their consent and therefor illegally, and having tested several private servers myself I can safely say that most of these communities are indeed spoiled, entitled brats.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
And yet the classic car collectors market sees people spending millions a year. I can rant and rave about how much better MP3 and FLAC audio files are than vinyl, yet my audiophile friends aren't going to stop collecting and appreciating records. The point here is if there is a demand someone will step up to offer a supply.
Is there a company out there actually manufacturing Model T's to supply the demands of car collectors?
Pretty someone selling an old Model T's from their family collection that's was manufactured almost a century ago to car collectors is quite a different type of "supply and demand" than providing a service to people who want to play old-school WoW.
In addition to that, I'm pretty sure most car collectors don't intend to actually USE their Model T's after acquiring them. And also any NEW Model T's produced would be worthless to the vast majority of collectors as soon as it came out simply for being both new not-vintage and a phony imitation instead of the genuine thing.
I just started playing on these servers yesterday. I can't believe how much I love it. Leveling is slow.
Every bit a gear you get matters because even at level 6 you will be using that gear for hours of playtime.
Also every copper counts because skills cost alot plus you need bags. The aggro range is huge so there is danger everywhere. I have died many times already and I am only level 9, There are corpses everywhere, lol.
Walking is super slow so you have to think before you head to an area because it will take a while.
No quest finder, so you have to read the quest and explore the area.
This server is great with no bugs so far. Runs smooth. I am having a blast
And yet the classic car collectors market sees people spending millions a year. I can rant and rave about how much better MP3 and FLAC audio files are than vinyl, yet my audiophile friends aren't going to stop collecting and appreciating records. The point here is if there is a demand someone will step up to offer a supply.
Is there a company out there actually manufacturing Model T's to supply the demands of car collectors?
Pretty someone selling an old Model T's from their family collection that's was manufactured almost a century ago to car collectors is quite a different type of "supply and demand" than providing a service to people who want to play old-school WoW.
In addition to that, I'm pretty sure most car collectors don't intend to actually USE their Model T's after acquiring them. And also any NEW Model T's produced would be worthless to the vast majority of collectors as soon as it came out simply for being both new not-vintage and a phony imitation instead of the genuine thing.
As a matter of fact there are quite a few modern made classic car replacement parts makers as sourcing completely authentic parts can be hellishly difficult and expensive. And not use them after being acquired? You my friend obviously don't know any classic car collectors or restorers.
Regardless the Model T analogy was Suzie's not mine and I feel doesn't fit World of Warcraft well at all. Why? The Model T was incredibly cranky and very hard to drive compared to cars of today, or even cars a couple of decades newer than the Model T. WoW is the antithesis of that. Its success from the beginning relies quite a bit on its accessibility and ease of mastery and use. Something that can definitely not be said of the Model T.
I also can't fail to notice you made no mention of new vinyl records, my analogy, the sales of which have been doing amazingly well the past several years. A $416,000,000 industry in 2015 alone.
your records is a terrible anaolgy .. They are real world collectibles and rarities , Wow is a collection of pixels that only holds a value to the acct holder .. Wow accts are a dime a dozen ,where as i rare Vinyl album can be worth 10 of thousnads of dollars and can only go up in value ...
I dont see a point. I see that bliz makes shit load of money on wow and still wont invest in vanilla server, which is in demand. If all they care about is their money, i dont see a reason to take their side. Besides, im sure they wouldnt give a shit about my problems, untill they see profit in it.
But that is the point... There is no HARD proof that there is actually a large PAYING customer base.. This mostly because of a few catch 22´s (mostly that the pirvate servers can´t charge a sub fee and that beyond P.99 no company have tried work with or on making a large scale legacy server work.)
But making a shit ton of money is not the same as being able to invest that money willy nilly.
I side with Blizzard because that is what makes sense at this point. No guarantee of return on investment for a vanilla server..
But i guess they could set up a pre-order system... Lets say... 1 year subscription and a min number of customers of 100.000... That would then be the project budget. Yeah. also.. no refunds... My guess is that it would fall short of that goal.
I dont see a point. I see that bliz makes shit load of money on wow and still wont invest in vanilla server, which is in demand. If all they care about is their money, i dont see a reason to take their side. Besides, im sure they wouldnt give a shit about my problems, untill they see profit in it.
But that is the point... There is no HARD proof that there is actually a large PAYING customer base.. This mostly because of a few catch 22´s (mostly that the pirvate servers can´t charge a sub fee and that beyond P.99 no company have tried work with or on making a large scale legacy server work.)
But making a shit ton of money is not the same as being able to invest that money willy nilly.
I side with Blizzard because that is what makes sense at this point. No guarantee of return on investment for a vanilla server..
But i guess they could set up a pre-order system... Lets say... 1 year subscription and a min number of customers of 100.000... That would then be the project budget. Yeah. also.. no refunds... My guess is that it would fall short of that goal.
While everyone focuses on the witch hunt because that's what humans are best at. You are all easily distracted from the original point of all this. Vanilla WoW is a wanted product and Blizzard has shown no shits given to provide such a product and yet here you all are, poking your pitchforks at the only people willing to give "some" players a product they want.
I'm not saying what they did was right, because we all know it isn't legal, but at the same time, people should boycott Blizzard for being even bigger asshats by ignoring a fairly decent size community. Especially with the fact the cost to run such a server is a drop in the bucket.
So who truly is the biggest asshole here? Criminal Crusaders for a wanted product aka Robin Hood or the greedy rich executives that don't give a shit about their customers aka Martin Shkreli.
Illegal is illegal, you cannot start trying to justify it by saying that they are filling a void. Blizzard has no obligations to follow up with the whims of its players, no matter how much it may seem like a good idea to you personally. I mean once you go down that route, things start getting a little insane.. I didn't like vanilla so much but I liked wotlk, should they open up that server too? Also with no new content, people would eventually get bored because that is what happens at the end of every expansion as it is. Honestly, if Blizzard through that they would make a lot of money from doing it, they would. They don't and haven't and since Blizzard is a company, not a charity...
I dont see a point. I see that bliz makes shit load of money on wow and still wont invest in vanilla server, which is in demand. If all they care about is their money, i dont see a reason to take their side. Besides, im sure they wouldnt give a shit about my problems, untill they see profit in it.
But that is the point... There is no HARD proof that there is actually a large PAYING customer base.. This mostly because of a few catch 22´s (mostly that the pirvate servers can´t charge a sub fee and that beyond P.99 no company have tried work with or on making a large scale legacy server work.)
But making a shit ton of money is not the same as being able to invest that money willy nilly.
I side with Blizzard because that is what makes sense at this point. No guarantee of return on investment for a vanilla server..
But i guess they could set up a pre-order system... Lets say... 1 year subscription and a min number of customers of 100.000... That would then be the project budget. Yeah. also.. no refunds... My guess is that it would fall short of that goal.
Proof.
Lol thats not proof , its a miniscule amount of players , buying a miniscule amount of gold(to Blizzard ) , But what this does confirm for me and others , is that , This is how Illegal servers are making money off of Blizzards product and washing it , They are also the Gold Sellers , very easy for them to set this up and line there pockets ...
And yet the classic car collectors market sees people spending millions a year. I can rant and rave about how much better MP3 and FLAC audio files are than vinyl, yet my audiophile friends aren't going to stop collecting and appreciating records. The point here is if there is a demand someone will step up to offer a supply.
Is there a company out there actually manufacturing Model T's to supply the demands of car collectors?
Pretty someone selling an old Model T's from their family collection that's was manufactured almost a century ago to car collectors is quite a different type of "supply and demand" than providing a service to people who want to play old-school WoW.
In addition to that, I'm pretty sure most car collectors don't intend to actually USE their Model T's after acquiring them. And also any NEW Model T's produced would be worthless to the vast majority of collectors as soon as it came out simply for being both new not-vintage and a phony imitation instead of the genuine thing.
As a matter of fact there are quite a few modern made classic car replacement parts makers as sourcing completely authentic parts can be hellishly difficult and expensive. And not use them after being acquired? You my friend obviously don't know any classic car collectors or restorers.
Regardless the Model T analogy was Suzie's not mine and I feel doesn't fit World of Warcraft well at all. Why? The Model T was incredibly cranky and very hard to drive compared to cars of today, or even cars a couple of decades newer than the Model T. WoW is the antithesis of that. Its success from the beginning relies quite a bit on its accessibility and ease of mastery and use. Something that can definitely not be said of the Model T.
I also can't fail to notice you made no mention of new vinyl records, my analogy, the sales of which have been doing amazingly well the past several years. A $416,000,000 industry in 2015 alone.
your records is a terrible anaolgy .. They are real world collectibles and rarities , Wow is a collection of pixels that only holds a value to the acct holder .. Wow accts are a dime a dozen ,where as i rare Vinyl album can be worth 10 of thousnads of dollars and can only go up in value ...
Wrong my friend, see my other post, the sales of NEW, not collectible, vinyl records for 2015 actually outsold digital streaming delivery sales.
interesting , so you say the remake of Vinyl made 416mill in 2015 and outsold digital sales ...
Vanilla WoW, and modern WoW are two totally different games, it happens that some people like more the Vanilla version than the current one. Why that would be such an outrageous thing to accept?
I'd like a Model T but doubt I can convince Ford Motor Company it's in their best interests to start a new production of them. They are moving forward and making the product they are more interested in making. They don't want to go back no matter how much a "blast from the past" might twitterpate Model T fans.
Maybe I should make a petition.....
OMG this is so weird I was just going to write the exact same thing!!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
And yet the classic car collectors market sees people spending millions a year. I can rant and rave about how much better MP3 and FLAC audio files are than vinyl, yet my audiophile friends aren't going to stop collecting and appreciating records. The point here is if there is a demand someone will step up to offer a supply.
Is there a company out there actually manufacturing Model T's to supply the demands of car collectors?
Pretty someone selling an old Model T's from their family collection that's was manufactured almost a century ago to car collectors is quite a different type of "supply and demand" than providing a service to people who want to play old-school WoW.
In addition to that, I'm pretty sure most car collectors don't intend to actually USE their Model T's after acquiring them. And also any NEW Model T's produced would be worthless to the vast majority of collectors as soon as it came out simply for being both new not-vintage and a phony imitation instead of the genuine thing.
As a matter of fact there are quite a few modern made classic car replacement parts makers as sourcing completely authentic parts can be hellishly difficult and expensive. And not use them after being acquired? You my friend obviously don't know any classic car collectors or restorers.
Regardless the Model T analogy was Suzie's not mine and I feel doesn't fit World of Warcraft well at all. Why? The Model T was incredibly cranky and very hard to drive compared to cars of today, or even cars a couple of decades newer than the Model T. WoW is the antithesis of that. Its success from the beginning relies quite a bit on its accessibility and ease of mastery and use. Something that can definitely not be said of the Model T.
I also can't fail to notice you made no mention of new vinyl records, my analogy, the sales of which have been doing amazingly well the past several years. A $416,000,000 industry in 2015 alone.
your records is a terrible anaolgy .. They are real world collectibles and rarities , Wow is a collection of pixels that only holds a value to the acct holder .. Wow accts are a dime a dozen ,where as i rare Vinyl album can be worth 10 of thousnads of dollars and can only go up in value ...
Wrong my friend, see my other post, the sales of NEW, not collectible, vinyl records for 2015 actually outsold digital streaming delivery sales.
interesting , so you say the remake of Vinyl made 416mill in 2015 and outsold digital sales ...
I dont see a point. I see that bliz makes shit load of money on wow and still wont invest in vanilla server, which is in demand. If all they care about is their money, i dont see a reason to take their side. Besides, im sure they wouldnt give a shit about my problems, untill they see profit in it.
But that is the point... There is no HARD proof that there is actually a large PAYING customer base.. This mostly because of a few catch 22´s (mostly that the pirvate servers can´t charge a sub fee and that beyond P.99 no company have tried work with or on making a large scale legacy server work.)
But making a shit ton of money is not the same as being able to invest that money willy nilly.
I side with Blizzard because that is what makes sense at this point. No guarantee of return on investment for a vanilla server..
But i guess they could set up a pre-order system... Lets say... 1 year subscription and a min number of customers of 100.000... That would then be the project budget. Yeah. also.. no refunds... My guess is that it would fall short of that goal.
But that is the point... There is no HARD proof that there is actually a large PAYING customer base.. This mostly because of a few catch 22´s (mostly that the pirvate servers can´t charge a sub fee and that beyond P.99 no company have tried work with or on making a large scale legacy server work.)
But this is the actual point.
Why Blizzard don't acquire the Nostalrium code (which is free) set up a couple of Servers, and see how that goes. They have nothing to lose, worst that can happen they will have to shut the Legacy Servers after a couple of months, but that would also shut up all the Vanilla fan base for good.
Instead they are making the issue worse, blowing it out of proportion, and in all this mess they also risk to be seen like the bad guys.
But that is the point... There is no HARD proof that there is actually a large PAYING customer base.. This mostly because of a few catch 22´s (mostly that the pirvate servers can´t charge a sub fee and that beyond P.99 no company have tried work with or on making a large scale legacy server work.)
But this is the actual point.
Why Blizzard don't acquire the Nostalrium code (which is free) set up a couple of Servers, and see how that goes. They have nothing to lose, worst that can happen they will have to shut the Legacy Servers after a couple of months, but that would also shut up all the Vanilla fan base for good.
Instead they are making the issue worse, blowing it out of proportion, and in all this mess they also risk to be seen like the bad guys.
Its not tht simple , they would have to set up servers ( which the client base doesnt support the cost of alone) ... Then provide a Devolpment Team , A tech Support team , a ToubleShooting Team , A Forum , A forum Moderating Team , A phone service Team etc.. the list goes on and the costs far outway the return ..Particularly when you consider the can-of-worms it opens , Others now wanting TBC server , WOTLK server etc ... a bottomless Pandoras Box of whiny entitled cry babies....
And now where do they get the dozens of people that they would need for this , pull them from other projects ? Train them to run a Legacy server , and hire new people for the reources they transfered to Legacy , Or just Hire dozens of new people and train them ... As talented as Blizz is they dont have a magic wand for this ...
Blizzs data and analytics already know that 2/3rds of these Freeloaders would soon leave if they showed up at all in favor of another free Illegal server ..
While everyone focuses on the witch hunt because that's what humans are best at. You are all easily distracted from the original point of all this. Vanilla WoW is a wanted product and Blizzard has shown no shits given to provide such a product and yet here you all are, poking your pitchforks at the only people willing to give "some" players a product they want.
I'm not saying what they did was right, because we all know it isn't legal, but at the same time, people should boycott Blizzard for being even bigger asshats by ignoring a fairly decent size community. Especially with the fact the cost to run such a server is a drop in the bucket.
So who truly is the biggest asshole here? Criminal Crusaders for a wanted product aka Robin Hood or the greedy rich executives that don't give a shit about their customers aka Martin Shkreli.
Criminal Crusaders are the bigger assholes...and Robin Hood stole from the government that was oppressing people not the rich citizens stop incorrectly using that story.
Its not tht simple , they would have to set up servers ( which the client base doesnt support the cost of alone) ... Then provide a Devolpment Team , A tech Support team , a ToubleShooting Team , A Forum , A forum Moderating Team , A phone service Team etc.. the list goes on and the costs far outway the return ..Particularly when you consider the can-of-worms it opens , Others now wanting TBC server , WOTLK server etc ... a bottomless Pandoras Box of whiny entitled cry babies....
You are talking as if the Legacy Servers are going to be free.......
There are Developers right now struggling to make brand new MMOs with just few millions, and you are saying that Blizzard a multi billion business, is not able to set up a couple of servers and upload a freely available code of a 10 years old game without losing money?
There is a plethora of Private Servers out there that are doing this for FREE. So a bunch of snotty teenagers can do it and the mighty Blizzard can't? How does that work?
Nobody is saying that is gonna be easy, sure they'll have to pay a couple of coders to go through the code to make sure that everything is up to Blizzard standards. But apart from that, there are not extra costs as the new Servers can be easily absorbed by the juggernaut that is the WoW infrastructure, and the Servers should pay for themselves even if they are not a huge success. Worst that can happen is they might have to close them after few months, but by then they would have recovered all the extra cost they incurred in setting up the Servers.
Its not tht simple , they would have to set up servers ( which the client base doesnt support the cost of alone) ... Then provide a Devolpment Team , A tech Support team , a ToubleShooting Team , A Forum , A forum Moderating Team , A phone service Team etc.. the list goes on and the costs far outway the return ..Particularly when you consider the can-of-worms it opens , Others now wanting TBC server , WOTLK server etc ... a bottomless Pandoras Box of whiny entitled cry babies....
You are talking as if the Legacy Servers are going to be free.......
There are Developers right now struggling to make brand new MMOs with just few millions, and you are saying that Blizzard a multi billion business, is not able to set up a couple of servers and upload a freely available code of a 10 years old game without losing money?
There is a plethora of Private Servers out there that are doing this for FREE. So a bunch of snotty teenagers can do it and the mighty Blizzard can't? How does that work?
Nobody is saying that is gonna be easy, sure they'll have to pay a couple of coders to go through the code to make sure that everything is up to Blizzard standards. But apart from that, there are not extra costs as the new Servers can be easily absorbed by the juggernaut that is the WoW infrastructure, and the Servers should pay for themselves even if they are not a huge success. Worst that can happen is they might have to close them after few months, but by then they would have recovered all the extra cost they incurred in setting up the Servers.
nothing is free , dont be naive , these Illegal servers are the same people selling Gold to there players .. And i always find it funny how easily people can spend other peoples money ...
And i dont even understand what your first sentence is referencing , They would be far from free, i thought i made that clear , But maybe not .. hmm maybe ill start using pictures
I dont see a point. I see that bliz makes shit load of money on wow and still wont invest in vanilla server, which is in demand. If all they care about is their money, i dont see a reason to take their side. Besides, im sure they wouldnt give a shit about my problems, untill they see profit in it.
But that is the point... There is no HARD proof that there is actually a large PAYING customer base.. This mostly because of a few catch 22´s (mostly that the pirvate servers can´t charge a sub fee and that beyond P.99 no company have tried work with or on making a large scale legacy server work.)
But making a shit ton of money is not the same as being able to invest that money willy nilly.
I side with Blizzard because that is what makes sense at this point. No guarantee of return on investment for a vanilla server..
But i guess they could set up a pre-order system... Lets say... 1 year subscription and a min number of customers of 100.000... That would then be the project budget. Yeah. also.. no refunds... My guess is that it would fall short of that goal.
Not that there is a large scale market for a legacy server at least.
Do elaborate what you think it is proof of, because i am curious.
I do agree with @MisterZebub that Blizzard flirting with the Nos team was... Stupid.
You were talking about lack of proof that there's a large paying customer base, but that hacker showed everyone that Elysium alone had over $1m in gold sales since last year just from the main gold sellers who were opperating on the server. I dont recal the exact details as its been a while since i watched it but didnt he also go on to show that the average spend per player was around $200 ? And this is just Elysium.. there's dozens more servers out there running vanila,TBC,WotLK and Cata versions too. You talk about Blizzard not having a guarantee of return on investment but when do buisnesses do anything with a guarantee? If there was always a guarantee then buisnesses would never go out of buisness. The cost of putting up a legacy server must be a drop in the ocean for a company like Blizzard and what the video shows is the potential for millions of dollars to be made from a large player base that is happy to spend money on something they love. As large as the legacy servers are right now, they would be a whole lot larger if they were official and ran by Blizzard along with all the free publicity such a move would generate its obvious these servers would turn a profit.
Comments
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"Nostalrius has x population, blizzard has 7 billion subscribers" Then they go on about why they shouldn't make official vanilla servers.
or
"I'm glad blizzard is finally doing something, I hope they hang the nostalrius team!!"
or
"The nostalrius devs/players are immature/children/entitled"
or
"Nostalrius are thieves!! THIEVES! I'm so mad they stole my---I mean blizzards property!"
I would be dead from alcohol poisoning before the 2nd page.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we can actually discuss this topic here, as a lot of websites just outright refuse to allow any talks at all about the private server scene but jesus christ, can we call this a discussion at this point?
Topics like this really expose peoples ignorance on the subject of private servers, the legality of it, and their own knowledge of the people who run the servers. It isn't such a black-and-white cut-and-dried subject that most of you make it out to be.
Well because that one car was already paid for and the same can't be said for WoW because it involved a initial and monthly purchase. It was never in any agreement on Blizz's part that players own the software, only access to it and I think this is where some arguments against Blizz come from, believing that any software purchased should be owned by that individual.
I agree with you that Blizzard should release legacy servers, due to obvious demand, but I don't think anyone is actually arguing that. The argument comes with whether Blizzard should be able to "own" their own product, either from a legal or principal standpoint. It is piracy to reconstruct WoW's "legacy" software and redistribute it to others due to the monthly subscription requirement mentioned above. This is even assuming that each player who would play it originally purchased WoW in the first place.
Personally, it's up to Blizzard how they handle this and I don't care what people do with themselves as long as their willing to be honest about what their doing. This is a game though. A form of entertainment. It absolutely cannot be compared to life saving or sustaining medications and in doing so grossly overestimates the importance of video games.
Not wanting to parade this as anything more than it actually is, but the fallback of "this is illegal, so we shouldn't have done it and shouldn't do it in the future" is a regressive position to take. At one point in the UK, for example, women voting in general elections was illegal. Woman's rights movements used to fraudulently vote in such elections, and this illegal activity was a core reason why women ultimately got the franchise. As I said, I'm not suggesting that this even vaguely comes close to that sort of issue, but it's worth pointing out: most of your rights, most of your liberties, most of your freedoms, were secured on the back of illegal action by a minority. US Independence? In part a product of illegal activities. Parliamentary democracy in the UK? In part a product of illegal activities. The booming cannabis industry in the US? In part - a large part - a product of illegal activities.
Breaking the law is sometimes a perfectly legitimate way to achieve a set of goals, barring any other means of progress. Breaking the law, committing crimes, to achieve change is a historically tried, tested and proven way to achieve progressive and beneficial aims. For every organisation like Nost, that just does a lot of talking at this point, there must be organisations willing to demonstrate the resolve to change, because that's the only way that change happens. Blizzard are highly unlikely to ever put in place Legacy servers if there are no large communities demonstrating the appeal of legacy servers, right?
But I don't think the argument should be whether Blizzard is entitled to shut illegal servers down, as legally they are entitled to do so, and I believe in the right of a company to protect their intellectual property.
I think most of us are wondering why it is such a big deal to either authorize third party run servers or better open their own Legacy Servers.
Other companies already did both, Daybreak supports P99 and also they made their own Legacy Servers.
Blizzard is a much bigger Company yet they are making a big fuss about the whole situation, blowing it out of proportion.
Sometimes I think Blizzard like the free publicity they are getting from the whole drama, there is no other plausible explanation.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Pretty someone selling an old Model T's from their family collection that's was manufactured almost a century ago to car collectors is quite a different type of "supply and demand" than providing a service to people who want to play old-school WoW.
In addition to that, I'm pretty sure most car collectors don't intend to actually USE their Model T's after acquiring them. And also any NEW Model T's produced would be worthless to the vast majority of collectors as soon as it came out simply for being both new not-vintage and a phony imitation instead of the genuine thing.
Every bit a gear you get matters because even at level 6 you will be using that gear for hours of playtime.
Also every copper counts because skills cost alot plus you need bags.
The aggro range is huge so there is danger everywhere. I have died many times already and I am only level 9, There are corpses everywhere, lol.
Walking is super slow so you have to think before you head to an area because it will take a while.
No quest finder, so you have to read the quest and explore the area.
This server is great with no bugs so far. Runs smooth. I am having a blast
But making a shit ton of money is not the same as being able to invest that money willy nilly.
I side with Blizzard because that is what makes sense at this point. No guarantee of return on investment for a vanilla server..
But i guess they could set up a pre-order system... Lets say... 1 year subscription and a min number of customers of 100.000... That would then be the project budget. Yeah. also.. no refunds... My guess is that it would fall short of that goal.
This have been a good conversation
Illegal is illegal, you cannot start trying to justify it by saying that they are filling a void. Blizzard has no obligations to follow up with the whims of its players, no matter how much it may seem like a good idea to you personally. I mean once you go down that route, things start getting a little insane.. I didn't like vanilla so much but I liked wotlk, should they open up that server too? Also with no new content, people would eventually get bored because that is what happens at the end of every expansion as it is. Honestly, if Blizzard through that they would make a lot of money from doing it, they would. They don't and haven't and since Blizzard is a company, not a charity...
These numbers are conflicting as the Digital Music Market is 15 Billion http://www.ifpi.org/news/Global-digital-music-revenues-match-physical-format-sales-for-first-time
you and your half baked analogy are dismissed
Nice try tho
Proof of what @Kunai_Vax...?
Not that there is a large scale market for a legacy server at least.
Do elaborate what you think it is proof of, because i am curious.
I do agree with @MisterZebub that Blizzard flirting with the Nos team was... Stupid.
This have been a good conversation
Why Blizzard don't acquire the Nostalrium code (which is free) set up a couple of Servers, and see how that goes.
They have nothing to lose, worst that can happen they will have to shut the Legacy Servers after a couple of months, but that would also shut up all the Vanilla fan base for good.
Instead they are making the issue worse, blowing it out of proportion, and in all this mess they also risk to be seen like the bad guys.
And now where do they get the dozens of people that they would need for this , pull them from other projects ? Train them to run a Legacy server , and hire new people for the reources they transfered to Legacy , Or just Hire dozens of new people and train them ... As talented as Blizz is they dont have a magic wand for this ...
Blizzs data and analytics already know that 2/3rds of these Freeloaders would soon leave if they showed up at all in favor of another free Illegal server ..
Criminal Crusaders are the bigger assholes...and Robin Hood stole from the government that was oppressing people not the rich citizens stop incorrectly using that story.
There are Developers right now struggling to make brand new MMOs with just few millions, and you are saying that Blizzard a multi billion business, is not able to set up a couple of servers and upload a freely available code of a 10 years old game without losing money?
There is a plethora of Private Servers out there that are doing this for FREE.
So a bunch of snotty teenagers can do it and the mighty Blizzard can't?
How does that work?
Nobody is saying that is gonna be easy, sure they'll have to pay a couple of coders to go through the code to make sure that everything is up to Blizzard standards.
But apart from that, there are not extra costs as the new Servers can be easily absorbed by the juggernaut that is the WoW infrastructure, and the Servers should pay for themselves even if they are not a huge success.
Worst that can happen is they might have to close them after few months, but by then they would have recovered all the extra cost they incurred in setting up the Servers.
And i dont even understand what your first sentence is referencing , They would be far from free, i thought i made that clear , But maybe not .. hmm maybe ill start using pictures
You talk about Blizzard not having a guarantee of return on investment but when do buisnesses do anything with a guarantee? If there was always a guarantee then buisnesses would never go out of buisness.
The cost of putting up a legacy server must be a drop in the ocean for a company like Blizzard and what the video shows is the potential for millions of dollars to be made from a large player base that is happy to spend money on something they love.
As large as the legacy servers are right now, they would be a whole lot larger if they were official and ran by Blizzard along with all the free publicity such a move would generate its obvious these servers would turn a profit.