Why did mmorpgs fail as a genre?

somersaultsam

I was considering a poll but that would be silly.

We obviously have seen successes in the likes of WOW, SWTOR and ESO (probably the biggest 3), but we have seen no development of triple A mmos in recent years.

Rather we have seen a trickle of funds to indie or crowd-sourced projects, which have no accountability or oversight so are more likely to fail.

We have seen a rise of MOBAs and limited multiplayer RPGs.

Is it just that the sun has set on MMORPGs?  Is the genre over? 

Ghavrigg

MMORPG's are a dime a dozen. There's not so much a failing, as much as an oversaturation, and people are growing ever more bored with the stale designs, aside from the few really good ones -- which, even them, aren't exactly standing out as anything overly amazing, atm. Especially with the patience and attention span many people exhibit, often starting and leaving a game (sometimes claiming they "finished it") before there's even remotely a chance to build any investment in it to make them even consider the possibility of sticking around.

The genre is far from dying out. There's always gonna be lots of people more interested in MMORPG's than MOBA's and shit. But it seems like a majority of people are preferring drop-in-drop-out online games, or mobile bullshit, because MMORPG's take too much time, I guess.

Also, good job with the bait title.

somersaultsam

Ghavrigg said:

MMORPG's are a dime a dozen. There's not so much a failing, as much as an oversaturation, and people are growing ever more bored with the stale designs, aside from the few really good ones -- which, even them, aren't exactly standing out as anything overly amazing, atm. Especially with the patience and attention span many people exhibit, often starting and leaving a game (sometimes claiming they "finished it") before there's even remotely a chance to build any investment in it to make them even consider the possibility of sticking around.

The genre is far from dying out. There's always gonna be lots of people more interested in MMORPG's than MOBA's and shit. But it seems like a majority of people are preferring drop-in-drop-out online games, or mobile bullshit, because MMORPG's take too much time, I guess.

Also, good job with the bait title.

one point; "sometimes claiming they have "finished it""... honestly, if you have reached the point where you feel you have done everything in a game, then you HAVE finished it. Hardcore fans or publishers can argue all the want that you missed this particular section in which you need to repeat the same skills you did before.... but the game is finished. People on this site in particular need to recognise that a game is over when people loose interest in it, rather than when 99.9% of the content is complete. If they did, we'd get better games. 

jusomdude

If I could pick one genre to be exclusively be developed it would be MMO, but the masses have spoken and they prefer other genres no matter how shallow they are... ahem(moba, fps). I guess people with more free time prefer MMO while others prefer little shit drop in and out multiplayer... If only there could be a union between the two. I think they should increase drop rates or something the longer you're logged out so the people with little time to play feel like they are being rewarded when they do play. Maybe that's not an ideal solution since they're being rewarded for NOT playing but I guess the rest of us should probably get a life or something, and we'll be rewarded the same.

somersaultsam

jusomdude said:

If I could pick one genre to be exclusively be developed it would be MMO, but the masses have spoken and they prefer other genres no matter how shallow they are... ahem(moba, fps). I guess people with more free time prefer MMO while others prefer little shit drop in and out multiplayer... If only there could be a union between the two. I think they should increase drop rates or something the longer you're logged out so the people with little time to play feel like they are being rewarded when they do play. Maybe that's not an ideal solution since they're being rewarded for NOT playing but I guess the rest of us should probably get a life or something, and we'll be rewarded the same.

I think you randomly hit the nail on the head here. I do not have time anymore for a slow advancement mmorpg (I did in wow  vanilla).  Have we just moved on? 

Albatroes

somersaultsam said:

I was considering a poll but that would be silly.

We obviously have seen successes in the likes of WOW, SWTOR and ESO (probably the biggest 3), but we have seen no development of triple A mmos in recent years.

Rather we have seen a trickle of funds to indie or crowd-sourced projects, which have no accountability or oversight so are more likely to fail.

We have seen a rise of MOBAs and limited multiplayer RPGs.

Is it just that the sun has set on MMORPGs?  Is the genre over? 

There's a slight problem in this logic, because you're assuming MMORPGs in particular were huge in the gaming community, which they honestly were. The mmorpg market has honestly been very small from the start for a lot of reasons, such as not everyone having pcs to run game or the bandwith. It may have felt larger than it really was because there was way way less competition on the market, thus making communities feel large. Now there's new MMOs (not just MMORPGs) almost every week which future divides the MMORPG market, while  the MMO market does grow. With that, you have some people leaving the sub-genre of MMORPGs completely for some reasons as mentioned before of not having time or interests changing over the years. My theory has always been that MMORPGs will "improve" if there is less competition on the market, because that's the only reason people from 10-15 years ago felt that they were good in the first place. You only had a handful of MMORPGs to pick from, with each having a decent population and devs could actually make content they wanted with it being as difficult as they wanted, without fear of profit loss because people were already invested. Today, if someone doesn't like a game like wow, they can just bounce to a f2p game and keep bouncing around since it costs nothing.

Aelious

somersaultsam said:

I was considering a poll but that would be silly.

We obviously have seen successes in the likes of WOW, SWTOR and ESO (probably the biggest 3), but we have seen no development of triple A mmos in recent years.

Rather we have seen a trickle of funds to indie or crowd-sourced projects, which have no accountability or oversight so are more likely to fail.

We have seen a rise of MOBAs and limited multiplayer RPGs.

Is it just that the sun has set on MMORPGs?  Is the genre over? 

Not over, just adjusting to a changing market. We've reached the end of the WoW model simulator

Ghavrigg

somersaultsam said:

Ghavrigg said:

MMORPG's are a dime a dozen. There's not so much a failing, as much as an oversaturation, and people are growing ever more bored with the stale designs, aside from the few really good ones -- which, even them, aren't exactly standing out as anything overly amazing, atm. Especially with the patience and attention span many people exhibit, often starting and leaving a game (sometimes claiming they "finished it") before there's even remotely a chance to build any investment in it to make them even consider the possibility of sticking around.

The genre is far from dying out. There's always gonna be lots of people more interested in MMORPG's than MOBA's and shit. But it seems like a majority of people are preferring drop-in-drop-out online games, or mobile bullshit, because MMORPG's take too much time, I guess.

Also, good job with the bait title.

one point; "sometimes claiming they have "finished it""... honestly, if you have reached the point where you feel you have done everything in a game, then you HAVE finished it. Hardcore fans or publishers can argue all the want that you missed this particular section in which you need to repeat the same skills you did before.... but the game is finished. People on this site in particular need to recognise that a game is over when people loose interest in it, rather than when 99.9% of the content is complete. If they did, we'd get better games. 

I'll give you that. It's not true, but it's true in the sense that it makes no difference to the consumer.

TyranusPrime

somersaultsam said:

Is it just that the sun has set on MMORPGs?  Is the genre over? 

The answer is no.. and definitely no..

I have said this before, and I imagine I will say it again and again until my end.. MMORPGs will never cease to be as long as humanity has the internet and the need for entertainment (aka games).. Increases in computer and optics technologies will only evolve the genre, while advances in communications will bring more and more people across the planet into contact more frequently..

As more money and research is poured into Augmented Reality, Virtual Reality, Holographic Projection, MOCAP, and Computer Miniturization, new avenues for MMORPGs will become realized..

These are not the dark ages of MMORPGs, but more like the silver age before the next big leap.. Arguably, the golden age would probably be seen as being between Everquest and World of Warcraft.. This time period saw a massive renaissance of amazing ideas in MMORPGs (City of Heroes, Star Wars Galaxies, etc)..

Current MMORPGs often have interesting ideas or some fun mechanics, but suffer overall from way-too-familiar gameplay.. Once innovation and artistic endeavor can balance peacefully with tech advances and business profits, the future of MMORPGs will become brighter..

Crusadecrusher

Yes!!!!  We haven't had a new doom and gloom thread about mmorpgs in about 6 hours.  I mean the other ten threads on this topic were clearly not enough for this site we needed another one! 

Kunai_Vax

Crusadecrusher said:

Yes!!!!  We haven't had a new doom and gloom thread about mmorpgs in about 6 hours.  I mean the other ten threads on this topic were clearly not enough for this site we needed another one! 

I know right.. 
How many more times do we have to have the exact same conversation. 

hamlin24

There are a couple reasons why I don't play MMOs anymore.  First and foremost is time.  I grew up on MMOs, but I got married, had kids, full time job, house to maintain (something is always broke, especially with kids.  Then when all repairs or finished, wife wants the kitchen remodeled).  I just do not have 4+ hours to sit in front of a computer.  I'm also in my late 30's.  I'm not in the mood for hyper competitive gameplay no matter what the genre.  At this point in my life if I game at all it's a quick game of Madden against the CPU or storymode GTA5.  After the kids are in bed, of course.

I only speak for myself, as someone who grew up playing the genre and got old.  Younger people didn't pick it up and replace me?

The other main reason I quit is motivation.  Or the purpose of the game.  Or something.  The right word escapes me right now.   When you play a single player game, you get a story.  You're a true hero and the world changes around you, because of your actions.  There's a beginning, a middle, and end.  That appeals to me.  Tell me a great story, let me affect the world, win, and...look forward to the sequel or whatever.  In MMOs, the only reason to play is to make your guy more powerful....to what end?  The world has to stay the same, nothing you do in the world can be permanent because the other players have to have a fair shot to experience that content too.  So that mega super hard-ass boss you raided with 20ish other heroes?  He's back as soon as you exit the dungeon like nothing ever happened.  Hell, that group of Murlocks you killed over and over since level 3 have been there for 10-15 years.

So, what's an ex MMO player doing here, writing this post?  Every once in a while, despite everything I just said, I get the MMO itch.  I check in from time to see what's new in the MMO world, to see if anything truely revolutionary has happened in the genre.  I'm talking unique experiences for every player, a world where things happen....permanently.  A revolution in content generation.  We need stories to tell...I want a compelling reason to do what I'm doing other than "I want loot X and I have to kill mob Y 35,000 times for a 4% chance to get it".  Character generation decisions that MATTER.  DDO was good at this for a really long time, but after 11 years powercreep has firmly set in.  Your power completely determined by your gear now.  Lets see, I know there's other things.  At this point if a game addressed ONE of those issues, I might consider it revolutionary.

Finally, The last thing I want to say is this.  Even though I don't play anymore, I still root for the genre.  I want to see it evolve and get popular again.  I'll keep checking in.  Whatever that game happens to be, maybe I'll see you there!

Dullahan

Hasn't failed, because there's a new wave of MMOs on the horizon.

The reason it's suffering is the result of replacing massively multiplayer cooperative and organic gameplay, roleplay, freedom and immersion with convenience, predetermined narratives, and stale formulaic designs and systems that are meant to regulate the way people play.

All for the sake of money, of course. Money that never came.

postlarval

Crusadecrusher said:

Yes!!!!  We haven't had a new doom and gloom thread about mmorpgs in about 6 hours.  I mean the other ten threads on this topic were clearly not enough for this site we needed another one! 

It's like crack with this crowd.

Nyctelios said:

Yes. It is all over. We are all doomed. The MMORPG as a genre is destined to fail regardless.

There is no escape! Everything is shit now! Oh, good old days! We are doomed!

Hariken

Elitism is slowly killing the mmo too. I used to know 20 people that played mmo's and non of them do anymore mainly because of this. And devs are trying to balance pve for pvp which always fails. Lets face it most leveled headed people don't want to waste their time this way anymore. They are all playing single player games. Skyrim is 5 years old and still popular as hell. Why deal with morons if you don't have too.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Renoaku

Its not really MMORPG's that failed its the developers who IMO their thinking has  grew smaller over the years and it became a thing about "Cash Shops" "Paying Real Money" to enjoy the damn game, and bad development decisions all around, even with games like World OF Warcraft which were once great, they get ruined by expansions that lack story line of interest, or Nerfs / Changes that effect the core game-play I personally loved the original WOW, but after Blizzard came out with BC then a bit later started making changes I started to quit I just didn't like the changes made not so much the races, but the nerfs heavily to classes, and talent remakes and all ruined the whole game experience from what it was too much for me to like the game...

I wouldn't consider SWTOR, or ESO a success either, ESO had those developers who I describe above the lack of innovation, thinking, etc, look at ESO today, we got cosmetics which are great to be sold in the store, but now ESO has stuck limited time items in the market, RNG Boxes, and even charges like I think it was $10 to re-customize a characters appearance things that (Should be free) with paid subscription and buying the customization styles / packs for additional DLC / money (Not the current cheap system they use now.

On top of this housing in both ESO, and FFXIV were never thought about really its dumb how it took over 2+ Years for ESO to even release housing, and now its likely going to be very limited at best with customization of what could be done with it still better than nothing but still should have been there within 6 months on release but they were still fixing bugs even after beta was over and the game was released.

FFXIV on the other hand does the same thing they make housing so not everyone can obtain it excluding apartments, but the lack of good developer decisions, ruined this game and the whole experience, same thing with Cosmetic items and glamour shards even those you spend your real money on called Optional Items...

SWTOR, has just never felt like a great game to me I've tried so many times, Limited time "Cartel Packs" Needs character model improvements, and doesn't feel like the old Knights of the old republic games I have played before for some reason it just doesn't feel as good as them...

The MMO Genere didn't fail, its the developers, and Management that fails. Many Many times over and over again.

If you go back to games like...

Final Fantasy XIV, where everyone got a single MOG House it was fair and fun.
The 4th Coming, another fun game back in the day but private servers always shutting down and stuff.

Rune Scape, Original One

Planet Side 1, Vs Planet Side 2, I like Planet Side 1 better, its sad they closed this down for a game with Capture the objective its so frigging call of duty if I wanted to play this ID just go play COD.

Titan Fall 2, (A FAILURE !) omg why did humans become Robots, Nope im sorry im not buying this game.

Ever Quest, VS Ever Quest 2, The old days of EQ1, and Champions OF Norrath games compared to today...

MMO, is still great it just needs people who can do them right and design them properly, Cash shops are not the problem, Subscriptions are not a problem, its the RNG, massive Greed, and little content offered for those who do pay.

FFXIV being a great example you spend $15 a month just like everyone else I think it is, and you can't obtain player housing you want, while someone else who pays the same fee can...

somersaultsam

Renoaku said:

Its not really MMORPG's that failed its the developers who IMO their thinking has  grew smaller over the years and it became a thing about "Cash Shops" "Paying Real Money" to enjoy the damn game, and bad development decisions all around, even with games like World OF Warcraft which were once great, they get ruined by expansions that lack story line of interest, or Nerfs / Changes that effect the core game-play I personally loved the original WOW, but after Blizzard came out with BC then a bit later started making changes I started to quit I just didn't like the changes made not so much the races, but the nerfs heavily to classes, and talent remakes and all ruined the whole game experience from what it was too much for me to like the game...

I wouldn't consider SWTOR, or ESO a success either, ESO had those developers who I describe above the lack of innovation, thinking, etc, look at ESO today, we got cosmetics which are great to be sold in the store, but now ESO has stuck limited time items in the market, RNG Boxes, and even charges like I think it was $10 to re-customize a characters appearance things that (Should be free) with paid subscription and buying the customization styles / packs for additional DLC / money (Not the current cheap system they use now.

On top of this housing in both ESO, and FFXIV were never thought about really its dumb how it took over 2+ Years for ESO to even release housing, and now its likely going to be very limited at best with customization of what could be done with it still better than nothing but still should have been there within 6 months on release but they were still fixing bugs even after beta was over and the game was released.

FFXIV on the other hand does the same thing they make housing so not everyone can obtain it excluding apartments, but the lack of good developer decisions, ruined this game and the whole experience, same thing with Cosmetic items and glamour shards even those you spend your real money on called Optional Items...

SWTOR, has just never felt like a great game to me I've tried so many times, Limited time "Cartel Packs" Needs character model improvements, and doesn't feel like the old Knights of the old republic games I have played before for some reason it just doesn't feel as good as them...

The MMO Genere didn't fail, its the developers, and Management that fails. Many Many times over and over again.

If you go back to games like...

Final Fantasy XIV, where everyone got a single MOG House it was fair and fun.
The 4th Coming, another fun game back in the day but private servers always shutting down and stuff.

Rune Scape, Original One

Planet Side 1, Vs Planet Side 2, I like Planet Side 1 better, its sad they closed this down for a game with Capture the objective its so frigging call of duty if I wanted to play this ID just go play COD.

Titan Fall 2, (A FAILURE !) omg why did humans become Robots, Nope im sorry im not buying this game.

Ever Quest, VS Ever Quest 2, The old days of EQ1, and Champions OF Norrath games compared to today...

MMO, is still great it just needs people who can do them right and design them properly, Cash shops are not the problem, Subscriptions are not a problem, its the RNG, massive Greed, and little content offered for those who do pay.

FFXIV being a great example you spend $15 a month just like everyone else I think it is, and you can't obtain player housing you want, while someone else who pays the same fee can...

Generally I agree... but I think ESO is a success in every sense of the word (playerbase/ financials/ fun) I mean it has made a shit ton of money, and while I do not play it atm (burnt out) it is a great mmo. 

Renoaku

Generally I agree... but I think ESO is a success in every sense of the word (playerbase/ financials/ fun) I mean it has made a shit ton of money, and while I do not play it atm (burnt out) it is a great mmo. 

Its not that ESO is that bad story line wise, but they need to offer better services than "RNG Boxes" and very limited customization options for ESO Characters like allowing subscribers to go edit their character appearance at a later time than having to pay $10 every single time (This should actually be an object in a player house a player can get that is like a (Player Mirror) the player goes into their housing sits down and can freely change anything about their character they like given they have purchased the cosmetic packs and stuff off the market...

Developers likely won't ever listen though lol...

Gruug

Free to play, cash shops and over saturation in the market have limited the success of most if not all recent MMO offerings.

somersaultsam

Gruug said:

Free to play, cash shops and over saturation in the market have limited the success of most if not all recent MMO offerings.

I agree, but that post was hideous 

simsalabim77

I think the genre is doing alright. It certainly hasn't failed. I know that goes against the MMORPG.com echo-chamber of whining, but it's the truth. 

jusomdude

Some of the current ones are doing pretty good but I think since no big developers in the US are working on any everyone here thinks MMOs are failing.

One of my theories why no big devs are making MMOs anymore is because they can't milk subscriptions from players anymore. If there's not big money for the time spent why would a company do it?

skeaser

How does one get a purple name?

Distopia

skeaser said:

How does one get a purple name?

A  living sacrifice to the alter of Bill.

Renoaku

skeaser said:

How does one get a purple name?

Think post a lot ? 

But how can I get a pink name?