If "Lord" British wont risk his money on his own game, I certainly wont be risking mine.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
I agree with you sir but remember that court ruling was deserved as NCSoft negated on a contract.Even worse is that NCSoft was willing to kill the game just so they could attempt to rip off Lord British and that is also disgusting. Roberts is doing the same thing,he said he had enough of his own money when media was questioning weather the money was going to his wife's Hollywood dream career.There is another guy advertising his game here that comes from the Wells Fargo family so yeah loads of money.
I'm not criticizing the award and ruling, I'm questioning why Lord British doesn't use some of it towards his game and business instead of selling horse shit Oops I mean statues for $50
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Why take a risk to make money when you can leech off everyone else? That would be so goddamn unamerican!
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Wait, do you know he hasn't put in millions of his own money?
Is your business a sole proprietorship? Only a fool would create a business and put their entire personal fortune on the line. Oh wait, I asked that question on mmorpg, what the fuck was I thinking? Of course gamers would do that. That's why they bitch about having to spend sandwich money on their games.
No pain - No gain
Risk vs Reward
Guess those terms mean shit these days.
My money says he's invested a pittance of his own cash on this title. These guys are just dicking around on someone else's dime.
And so what can be said for those that actually pay these prices for "digital fluff"? Someone mentioned something along the lines of "what kind of fools do they take us for?". Well, the answer is obvious. Do you pay for things in so-called free to play games? Do you purchase digital items in a microtransaction shop? If so, the answer is painfully obvious WHO they are looking for.
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Wait, do you know he hasn't put in millions of his own money?
Is your business a sole proprietorship? Only a fool would create a business and put their entire personal fortune on the line. Oh wait, I asked that question on mmorpg, what the fuck was I thinking? Of course gamers would do that. That's why they bitch about having to spend sandwich money on their games.
No pain - No gain
Risk vs Reward
Guess those terms mean shit these days.
My money says he's invested a pittance of his own cash on this title. These guys are just dicking around on someone else's dime.
Can we at least TRY to be objective? You own a company, right? What's the cost of running that company? These guys have 36 people listed on Linkedin. 6 of the 10 that I looked at, before it told me I couldn't do that anymore, said they were there for 3+ yeras. So even if we were to say that the revolving staff at Portalium averaged out to be 60% over the past 3 years, that would be 22 employees. So an MINIMUM, we're looking at a total investment in salaries of $5.3 million over the past 3 years of development, $7 million if we were to go back to the end of the KS campaign (March 2013) which is almost to the day. OK! Now, we've got to calculate labor burden on there. So I'm sure, being a business owner, you'll appreciate that 50% labor burden is relatively conservative, yes? So all said and done, that would put the 3 year development cost around the $8 million mark, or around $10.5 million for the 4 year development. Oh!! And that's considering 22 employees, not 36, as a constant over that time. Oh!! And that 36 number is just those who choose to list themselves on Linkedin.
So even if we went extremely conservative and said they've ONLY burned $8 million, which should almost be a certainty, then we can knock off the $2 million from the KS campaign. They've got around 50k owners on Steam. So even if each of those people bought it at $50, we'd be looking at another $2.5 million. So someone is going to be on the hook for the additional $3.5 million, MINIMUM! Considering they see south of 2k players every 2 weeks, they'd essentially have to sell these shiny statues to, literally, every single one. Not only that, but they'd need to sell 20, yes 20, other free statues at $50 to that ENTIRE 2000 player user base, EVERY YEAR, just to keep operations running.
Does this mean he's invested his own money? Beats the hell out of me, but I can't imagine that he'd want to devalue his own share in the company by selling to VCs who are going to beat you up on your valuation because that's how they make their money. Regardless, someone has eaten like $3 million so far and will continue taking million dollar baths each year this goes unfinished. Effectively, if this was a horse, it would be glue. It's what the people want though, so keep holding out hope!!
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Wait, do you know he hasn't put in millions of his own money?
Is your business a sole proprietorship? Only a fool would create a business and put their entire personal fortune on the line. Oh wait, I asked that question on mmorpg, what the fuck was I thinking? Of course gamers would do that. That's why they bitch about having to spend sandwich money on their games.
No pain - No gain
Risk vs Reward
Guess those terms mean shit these days.
My money says he's invested a pittance of his own cash on this title. These guys are just dicking around on someone else's dime.
Can we at least TRY to be objective? You own a company, right? What's the cost of running that company? These guys have 36 people listed on Linkedin. 6 of the 10 that I looked at, before it told me I couldn't do that anymore, said they were there for 3+ yeras. So even if we were to say that the revolving staff at Portalium averaged out to be 60% over the past 3 years, that would be 22 employees. So an MINIMUM, we're looking at a total investment in salaries of $5.3 million over the past 3 years of development, $7 million if we were to go back to the end of the KS campaign (March 2013) which is almost to the day. OK! Now, we've got to calculate labor burden on there. So I'm sure, being a business owner, you'll appreciate that 50% labor burden is relatively conservative, yes? So all said and done, that would put the 3 year development cost around the $8 million mark, or around $10.5 million for the 4 year development. Oh!! And that's considering 22 employees, not 36, as a constant over that time. Oh!! And that 36 number is just those who choose to list themselves on Linkedin.
So even if we went extremely conservative and said they've ONLY burned $8 million, which should almost be a certainty, then we can knock off the $2 million from the KS campaign. They've got around 50k owners on Steam. So even if each of those people bought it at $50, we'd be looking at another $2.5 million. So someone is going to be on the hook for the additional $3.5 million, MINIMUM! Considering they see south of 2k players every 2 weeks, they'd essentially have to sell these shiny statues to, literally, every single one. Not only that, but they'd need to sell 20, yes 20, other free statues at $50 to that ENTIRE 2000 player user base, EVERY YEAR, just to keep operations running.
Does this mean he's invested his own money? Beats the hell out of me, but I can't imagine that he'd want to devalue his own share in the company by selling to VCs who are going to beat you up on your valuation because that's how they make their money. Regardless, someone has eaten like $3 million so far and will continue taking million dollar baths each year this goes unfinished. Effectively, if this was a horse, it would be glue. It's what the people want though, so keep holding out hope!!
Very interesting google + calculator analysis but this game has been selling Steam EA for 2.5 years and in that time they've sold ~ 45K units ... at what point do you call it and throw in the towel instead of trying to prop it up with fluffy junk?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't care how they raise their money or set their prices, it is their product an company, they can do whatever they want and if it is something I don't agree with I simply won't support them. I care about the quality of the product and fun factor, and unfortunately that is where SotA has failed hard for me. I really wanted to like it but I got some thrown together game without a soul or purpose. It also has a UI that makes me want to strangle myself. No, just no.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Wait, do you know he hasn't put in millions of his own money?
Is your business a sole proprietorship? Only a fool would create a business and put their entire personal fortune on the line. Oh wait, I asked that question on mmorpg, what the fuck was I thinking? Of course gamers would do that. That's why they bitch about having to spend sandwich money on their games.
No pain - No gain
Risk vs Reward
Guess those terms mean shit these days.
My money says he's invested a pittance of his own cash on this title. These guys are just dicking around on someone else's dime.
Can we at least TRY to be objective? You own a company, right? What's the cost of running that company? These guys have 36 people listed on Linkedin. 6 of the 10 that I looked at, before it told me I couldn't do that anymore, said they were there for 3+ yeras. So even if we were to say that the revolving staff at Portalium averaged out to be 60% over the past 3 years, that would be 22 employees. So an MINIMUM, we're looking at a total investment in salaries of $5.3 million over the past 3 years of development, $7 million if we were to go back to the end of the KS campaign (March 2013) which is almost to the day. OK! Now, we've got to calculate labor burden on there. So I'm sure, being a business owner, you'll appreciate that 50% labor burden is relatively conservative, yes? So all said and done, that would put the 3 year development cost around the $8 million mark, or around $10.5 million for the 4 year development. Oh!! And that's considering 22 employees, not 36, as a constant over that time. Oh!! And that 36 number is just those who choose to list themselves on Linkedin.
So even if we went extremely conservative and said they've ONLY burned $8 million, which should almost be a certainty, then we can knock off the $2 million from the KS campaign. They've got around 50k owners on Steam. So even if each of those people bought it at $50, we'd be looking at another $2.5 million. So someone is going to be on the hook for the additional $3.5 million, MINIMUM! Considering they see south of 2k players every 2 weeks, they'd essentially have to sell these shiny statues to, literally, every single one. Not only that, but they'd need to sell 20, yes 20, other free statues at $50 to that ENTIRE 2000 player user base, EVERY YEAR, just to keep operations running.
Does this mean he's invested his own money? Beats the hell out of me, but I can't imagine that he'd want to devalue his own share in the company by selling to VCs who are going to beat you up on your valuation because that's how they make their money. Regardless, someone has eaten like $3 million so far and will continue taking million dollar baths each year this goes unfinished. Effectively, if this was a horse, it would be glue. It's what the people want though, so keep holding out hope!!
Very interesting google + calculator analysis but this game has been selling Steam EA for 2.5 years and in that time they've sold ~ 45K units ... at what point do you call it and throw in the towel instead of trying to prop it up with fluffy junk?
The point at which your actual players, not pontificators on some forum, say no.
Before the outrageous indignation did anyone even think to see if players like it? Does it matter if some don't and then pass on buying it?
If I wanted that statue in my housing yard or town and they didn't offer it what are my choices?
The problem with gamers now is that they love, no feed on, indignation at amoral events. They moralize them and then raise a dramatic fuss, over a non-moral issue.
In any other business taking cheap or free resources and then repackaging and reselling them to work in a specific situation is called genius. We all like to do that in our businesses as best we can. It's how we make money. Please do try and go the most expensive route possible in your business and then undersell it and let us all know how that goes for you.
Congrats! You managed to help @Gdemami find something other than the LOL button
I actually agree with you here on the moral argument. The only reason this is even a problem is that it's been made public. I used to have a friend who worked at a now defunct shop of futuristic goods in Canada It came in handy any time I needed to buy any sort of cable. I remember I wanted to buy some 3mm extension cables once and my family discount brought the total down from $30 to $0.60. You could take that any number of ways. If you think that's them screwing you, then I hate to break it to you but you're getting screwed on the daily. If you look at it as a matter of them maximizing the profit for that shelf space in relation to similar items? Maybe not so much.
Either way, the fact that we're all so connected and enlightened doesn't change the fact that if you think this is a moral issue, then every business operating out there today is amoral.
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Wait, do you know he hasn't put in millions of his own money?
Is your business a sole proprietorship? Only a fool would create a business and put their entire personal fortune on the line. Oh wait, I asked that question on mmorpg, what the fuck was I thinking? Of course gamers would do that. That's why they bitch about having to spend sandwich money on their games.
No pain - No gain
Risk vs Reward
Guess those terms mean shit these days.
My money says he's invested a pittance of his own cash on this title. These guys are just dicking around on someone else's dime.
Can we at least TRY to be objective? You own a company, right? What's the cost of running that company? These guys have 36 people listed on Linkedin. 6 of the 10 that I looked at, before it told me I couldn't do that anymore, said they were there for 3+ yeras. So even if we were to say that the revolving staff at Portalium averaged out to be 60% over the past 3 years, that would be 22 employees. So an MINIMUM, we're looking at a total investment in salaries of $5.3 million over the past 3 years of development, $7 million if we were to go back to the end of the KS campaign (March 2013) which is almost to the day. OK! Now, we've got to calculate labor burden on there. So I'm sure, being a business owner, you'll appreciate that 50% labor burden is relatively conservative, yes? So all said and done, that would put the 3 year development cost around the $8 million mark, or around $10.5 million for the 4 year development. Oh!! And that's considering 22 employees, not 36, as a constant over that time. Oh!! And that 36 number is just those who choose to list themselves on Linkedin.
So even if we went extremely conservative and said they've ONLY burned $8 million, which should almost be a certainty, then we can knock off the $2 million from the KS campaign. They've got around 50k owners on Steam. So even if each of those people bought it at $50, we'd be looking at another $2.5 million. So someone is going to be on the hook for the additional $3.5 million, MINIMUM! Considering they see south of 2k players every 2 weeks, they'd essentially have to sell these shiny statues to, literally, every single one. Not only that, but they'd need to sell 20, yes 20, other free statues at $50 to that ENTIRE 2000 player user base, EVERY YEAR, just to keep operations running.
Does this mean he's invested his own money? Beats the hell out of me, but I can't imagine that he'd want to devalue his own share in the company by selling to VCs who are going to beat you up on your valuation because that's how they make their money. Regardless, someone has eaten like $3 million so far and will continue taking million dollar baths each year this goes unfinished. Effectively, if this was a horse, it would be glue. It's what the people want though, so keep holding out hope!!
Very interesting google + calculator analysis but this game has been selling Steam EA for 2.5 years and in that time they've sold ~ 45K units ... at what point do you call it and throw in the towel instead of trying to prop it up with fluffy junk?
The point at which your actual players, not pontificators on some forum, say no.
Before the outrageous indignation did anyone even think to see if players like it? Does it matter if some don't and then pass on buying it?
If I wanted that statue in my housing yard or town and they didn't offer it what are my choices?
The problem with gamers now is that they love, no feed on, indignation at amoral events. They moralize them and then raise a dramatic fuss, over a non-moral issue.
In any other business taking cheap or free resources and then repackaging and reselling them to work in a specific situation is called genius. We all like to do that in our businesses as best we can. It's how we make money. Please do try and go the most expensive route possible in your business and then undersell it and let us all know how that goes for you.
Speaking of moralizing...
You're projecting your very own dogmatic shit onto a game that like most games these days sell fluffy crap loosely related to the game world in lieu of actual meaningful game play content.
THAT is the issue not whether they're flipping assets.
So carry on leading the cheer for corporate genius while ignoring the real issues about lazy shit sales that has nothing to do with improving game play.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Wait, do you know he hasn't put in millions of his own money?
Is your business a sole proprietorship? Only a fool would create a business and put their entire personal fortune on the line. Oh wait, I asked that question on mmorpg, what the fuck was I thinking? Of course gamers would do that. That's why they bitch about having to spend sandwich money on their games.
No pain - No gain
Risk vs Reward
Guess those terms mean shit these days.
My money says he's invested a pittance of his own cash on this title. These guys are just dicking around on someone else's dime.
Those terms have never meant anything in the business world outside of business pep conferences.
We sat down to a meeting this morning to install some specialty EHR software. It required a bunch of hassle with AWS and a whole slew of other software hurdles that put me 5 hours behind on delivering other stuff on my clients.
Lot's of pain. No gain. It would have been better if there was an efficient, cheap, and easy way to do all that. Easier than it was 10 years ago, not nearly easy and seamless enough.
No pain no gain is what you say to try and make yourself feel better after wasting a ton of time and resources that should have not needed to happen.
Risk vs Reward - Smart businesses spend a lot of effort analyzing and minimizing risks. The reward is less loss and wasted effort while others efficiently blaze past you.
Do you actually run your business like a cowboy or do you run it wisely and just suggest that other business play cowboy for the fun feelz of watching them spiral down the toilet?
For me:
No pain - No gain
Means that I had to make sacrifices, not all were monetary.
I've got myself to a place, where I 100% own everything. I didn't get there by buying fancy sports cars.
Sometimes minimizing your risk is knowing when to cut your losses.
I have a bad month, I can't be pawning $50 metal slugs off to my customers crying the poorhouse blues.
You got a bunch of multimillionaires who spend like drunken sailors and look to there fans to buy $50 pixel statues to keep the dream alive.
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Wait, do you know he hasn't put in millions of his own money?
Is your business a sole proprietorship? Only a fool would create a business and put their entire personal fortune on the line. Oh wait, I asked that question on mmorpg, what the fuck was I thinking? Of course gamers would do that. That's why they bitch about having to spend sandwich money on their games.
No pain - No gain
Risk vs Reward
Guess those terms mean shit these days.
My money says he's invested a pittance of his own cash on this title. These guys are just dicking around on someone else's dime.
Those terms have never meant anything in the business world outside of business pep conferences.
We sat down to a meeting this morning to install some specialty EHR software. It required a bunch of hassle with AWS and a whole slew of other software hurdles that put me 5 hours behind on delivering other stuff on my clients.
Lot's of pain. No gain. It would have been better if there was an efficient, cheap, and easy way to do all that. Easier than it was 10 years ago, not nearly easy and seamless enough.
No pain no gain is what you say to try and make yourself feel better after wasting a ton of time and resources that should have not needed to happen.
Risk vs Reward - Smart businesses spend a lot of effort analyzing and minimizing risks. The reward is less loss and wasted effort while others efficiently blaze past you.
Do you actually run your business like a cowboy or do you run it wisely and just suggest that other business play cowboy for the fun feelz of watching them spiral down the toilet?
For me:
No pain - No gain
Means that I had to make sacrifices, not all were monetary.
I've got myself to a place, where I 100% own everything. I didn't get there by buying fancy sports cars.
Sometimes minimizing your risk is knowing when to cut your losses.
I have a bad month, I can't be pawning $50 metal slugs off to my customers crying the poorhouse blues.
You got a bunch of multimillionaires who spend like drunken sailors and look to there fans to buy $50 pixel statues to keep the dream alive.
Nearly four years and what is this game now?
Like I said earlier, I find it disgusting.
I have a friend who works in the automotive and aerospace sector and I can tell you this happens all the time. In fact, they charge a couple hundred bucks for the same bearing that they sell for thousands into aerospace. Only difference is paperwork.
You can't talk about keeping the dream alive because there are actually people who are wanting this game, I guess. So if they want to support it, great for them. Last time I checked, they weren't instituting a mandatory buy on the horse statue. If they did then I could understand the big deal.
Oh, and I did address the matter of cost and salaries above. As a business owner I felt like you would be able to see that they aren't rolling in the dough and it seems unlikely that they are in the black even. So I don't know where you're getting all this party lifestyle spending spree bullshit. They just got a free asset, that's not blowing the bank.
I don't care how they raise their money or set their prices, it is their product an company, they can do whatever they want and if it is something I don't agree with I simply won't support them. I care about the quality of the product and fun factor, and unfortunately that is where SotA has failed hard for me. I really wanted to like it but I got some thrown together game without a soul or purpose. It also has a UI that makes me want to strangle myself. No, just no.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
SOTA has failed big time.
The devs are greedy and stubborn.
We're an EA game, we listen to you! We will make a game that YOU will love!
Everything who has been said, has been ignored. You can't even bring a topic about this, without being locked by this Berek.
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Wait, do you know he hasn't put in millions of his own money?
Is your business a sole proprietorship? Only a fool would create a business and put their entire personal fortune on the line. Oh wait, I asked that question on mmorpg, what the fuck was I thinking? Of course gamers would do that. That's why they bitch about having to spend sandwich money on their games.
I seriously doubt he's put much of his money into it. He didn't even want to put his own money into his company and got it from investors then were running out of money to keep their business open and came up with the kickstarter scam for Sota.
Just look how they started out. They began by cheaping out using unity assets so they didnt have to do much coding, and they still been doing this for years. Laziness they barely make anything. Just throw a bunch of unity assets together and call it a game while milking backers that are left after the smart ones left them long ago once they saw what they were doing.
32:00 – Richard talks about Portalarium’s failure to chase the social media and mobile gaming trend.
41:00 – Richard mentions Portalarium’s foray into social and mobile gaming was a disaster and talks about Portalarium having only enough funds to operate for another 3 months just before the Shroud of the Avatar Kickstarter was launched. He mentions receiving advice from Cloud Imperium Games (Chris Roberts / Star Citizen) about what it would take to do a Kickstarter, and then goes on to say that they started from literally nothing and put together the Shroud of the Avatar Kickstarter in 45 days.
43:00 – Richard mentions they took their art almost exclusively from the Unity Asset Store and wrote a bare minimum of code.
44:40 – Richard admits the $1M fundraising target in their Kickstarter was an amount they decided would allow them to “get out of this pickle” and not necessarily finish the product (which of course would entail fulfilling the promises made in the Kickstarter).
He makes a poor house building analogy in the process. No, we don't expect the carpenter to create his own boards, but if he got them for free we would not expect to pay a large price for them just because the carpenter underestimated the price of the original job.
They apparently didn't get this asset for free, as a dev explained:
"I completely understand that without complete information this could be frustrating.
Assets like these are often only free if you do not resell them like we are. Even if it was free it doesn't just magically appear in the game without any effort. It takes actual development time to get it working in the game properly. Many hours in fact. Sometimes the textures have to be adjusted. Often we have to make levels of detail versions. We have to make simple colliders. We have to set all the proper decoration and permission flags. We then have to spend time adding it to offers and the add on store. That costs money. It is not free."
As you say the game is pretty niche and other than milking the existing player base there are not many other avenues to bring in enough money to continue the development of that game.
BruceYee the devs can't even make a game with mostly buying cheap assets and 11 million dollars that I can't imagine 1/10 that even spent on the game doubt they could ever do a UO2 justice. They got devs straight from college and others that never made much other than failed app games and console games no one's ever heard of. Can you imagine the poor artist working for Sota, " hey you won't be making much in this job but we'll get you to alter a bunch of cheap assets for us and keep you from creating anything that looks good".
I dunno, Hero's Song was made for fairly cheap and if Smed pulled off a semi-complete game in around 1 year for about a million didn't these guys earn a lot more than that? I'm sure Garriot sold the Ultima name when he made the deal with EA but he may have also signed a contract with them to agree and never make a game similar to UO which could be the real reason why he hasn't made a UO2.
SOTA will never be able to shut down while Garriot is alive unless he plans to pay back the people who spent thousands on the extremely short sighted housing system in this game or there would be lawsuits galore + his name would be forever tarnished.
I enjoyed this game til I got to around 4 stars then realized I needed to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a house and never logged in again. I feel really bad for those people who spent thousands though, they should really be getting free stuff from this company on a monthly basis.
BruceYee the devs can't even make a game with mostly buying cheap assets and 11 million dollars that I can't imagine 1/10 that even spent on the game doubt they could ever do a UO2 justice. They got devs straight from college and others that never made much other than failed app games and console games no one's ever heard of. Can you imagine the poor artist working for Sota, " hey you won't be making much in this job but we'll get you to alter a bunch of cheap assets for us and keep you from creating anything that looks good".
I dunno, Hero's Song was made for fairly cheap and if Smed pulled off a semi-complete game in around 1 year for about a million didn't these guys earn a lot more than that? I'm sure Garriot sold the Ultima name when he made the deal with EA but he may have also signed a contract with them to agree and never make a game similar to UO which could be the real reason why he hasn't made a UO2.
SOTA will never be able to shut down while Garriot is alive unless he plans to pay back the people who spent thousands on the extremely short sighted housing system in this game or there would be lawsuits galore + his name would be forever tarnished.
I enjoyed this game til I got to around 4 stars then realized I needed to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a house and never logged in again. I feel really bad for those people who spent thousands though, they should really be getting free stuff from this company on a monthly basis.
RG has the rights to the Lord British character and name as far as I've seen when he's talked about that. I'm not saying a UO2 couldn't be done on a low budget, just not by this team. They've gotten over 11 million so far and still managed to screw it up royally by not knowing what they're doing. This game will go officially released and flop, so then they'll get really desperate going free to play with a buy option and even an added subscription offer to milk the few people they got left til they have to shut it down. They also want to hold a Kickstarter for additional episodes 2-5 lol. I can't imagine anyone supporting another Kickstarter, let alone 4 more after this trainwreck.
Again, why I lament the death of critical thinking. Too bad grown up conversations are impossible to have here anymore.
Yeah I wonder why that is? It couldn't possibly have anything to do with a handful of corporate cheerleaders always scolding any forum user who dares criticize overpriced shit and fluff in games. Nope. That couldn't be it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Wait, do you know he hasn't put in millions of his own money?
Is your business a sole proprietorship? Only a fool would create a business and put their entire personal fortune on the line. Oh wait, I asked that question on mmorpg, what the fuck was I thinking? Of course gamers would do that. That's why they bitch about having to spend sandwich money on their games.
No pain - No gain
Risk vs Reward
Guess those terms mean shit these days.
My money says he's invested a pittance of his own cash on this title. These guys are just dicking around on someone else's dime.
Those terms have never meant anything in the business world outside of business pep conferences.
We sat down to a meeting this morning to install some specialty EHR software. It required a bunch of hassle with AWS and a whole slew of other software hurdles that put me 5 hours behind on delivering other stuff on my clients.
Lot's of pain. No gain. It would have been better if there was an efficient, cheap, and easy way to do all that. Easier than it was 10 years ago, not nearly easy and seamless enough.
No pain no gain is what you say to try and make yourself feel better after wasting a ton of time and resources that should have not needed to happen.
Risk vs Reward - Smart businesses spend a lot of effort analyzing and minimizing risks. The reward is less loss and wasted effort while others efficiently blaze past you.
Do you actually run your business like a cowboy or do you run it wisely and just suggest that other business play cowboy for the fun feelz of watching them spiral down the toilet?
For me:
No pain - No gain
Means that I had to make sacrifices, not all were monetary.
I've got myself to a place, where I 100% own everything. I didn't get there by buying fancy sports cars.
Sometimes minimizing your risk is knowing when to cut your losses.
I have a bad month, I can't be pawning $50 metal slugs off to my customers crying the poorhouse blues.
You got a bunch of multimillionaires who spend like drunken sailors and look to there fans to buy $50 pixel statues to keep the dream alive.
Nearly four years and what is this game now?
Like I said earlier, I find it disgusting.
I have a friend who works in the automotive and aerospace sector and I can tell you this happens all the time. In fact, they charge a couple hundred bucks for the same bearing that they sell for thousands into aerospace. Only difference is paperwork.
You can't talk about keeping the dream alive because there are actually people who are wanting this game, I guess. So if they want to support it, great for them. Last time I checked, they weren't instituting a mandatory buy on the horse statue. If they did then I could understand the big deal.
Oh, and I did address the matter of cost and salaries above. As a business owner I felt like you would be able to see that they aren't rolling in the dough and it seems unlikely that they are in the black even. So I don't know where you're getting all this party lifestyle spending spree bullshit. They just got a free asset, that's not blowing the bank.
Big difference between the auto industry and aerospace. Every bolt and rivet on an airliner gets x-rayed. A little over 20 years ago I had a contract to make ashtray covers to cover up the ashtrays in seats because smoking was no longer allowed. You would believe the paperwork and bullshit for an ashtray cover.
A better analogy would be buying that bearing from the Dealership or from somebody like a Lordco. I went into a Yamaha dealership to buy a universal for a ATV. Yamaha wanted $75.00 for the main body, $12 x 4 for the bearings and $2.25 x 4 for the retainers. I laughed, cross referenced the universal and bought the whole unit for $19.75 Selling the universal in parts was comical. A universal for a 1 ton truck costs about $30.
People are free to buy all the horse statue's they like. I'm free to criticize it all I like.
I have 32 employees.
I pay over a million for a machine it takes me 2-3 years to get to the black and recoup that purchase, if times are good.
I have a 25000 sq ft shop filled with machinery, millions invested. I have to be globally competitive. As far as mfg is concerned, it's a fine line between black and red. Retailers sell some products for 4x what I sell it to them for. I've been to quite a few liquidation auctions in your Province.
Raising free capital via kickstarter and selling $50 pixel ponies in fantasy land. Why wouldn't a multimillionaire astronaut tourist take full advantage.
He payed 30mil to take that trip.
Fuck if he can't put out his own cash to build a complete consumer product.
I have a very hard time listening to the cry of poorhouse, when they could afford a trip into space and was awarded a 32 million dollar ruling after said trip.
What I see, is a company who's owners are not willing to risk their own money for their endeavor. They take their customers and fans for idiots.
These new business models are bullshit.
Disgusting really
Wait, do you know he hasn't put in millions of his own money?
Is your business a sole proprietorship? Only a fool would create a business and put their entire personal fortune on the line. Oh wait, I asked that question on mmorpg, what the fuck was I thinking? Of course gamers would do that. That's why they bitch about having to spend sandwich money on their games.
No pain - No gain
Risk vs Reward
Guess those terms mean shit these days.
My money says he's invested a pittance of his own cash on this title. These guys are just dicking around on someone else's dime.
Those terms have never meant anything in the business world outside of business pep conferences.
We sat down to a meeting this morning to install some specialty EHR software. It required a bunch of hassle with AWS and a whole slew of other software hurdles that put me 5 hours behind on delivering other stuff on my clients.
Lot's of pain. No gain. It would have been better if there was an efficient, cheap, and easy way to do all that. Easier than it was 10 years ago, not nearly easy and seamless enough.
No pain no gain is what you say to try and make yourself feel better after wasting a ton of time and resources that should have not needed to happen.
Risk vs Reward - Smart businesses spend a lot of effort analyzing and minimizing risks. The reward is less loss and wasted effort while others efficiently blaze past you.
Do you actually run your business like a cowboy or do you run it wisely and just suggest that other business play cowboy for the fun feelz of watching them spiral down the toilet?
For me:
No pain - No gain
Means that I had to make sacrifices, not all were monetary.
I've got myself to a place, where I 100% own everything. I didn't get there by buying fancy sports cars.
Sometimes minimizing your risk is knowing when to cut your losses.
I have a bad month, I can't be pawning $50 metal slugs off to my customers crying the poorhouse blues.
You got a bunch of multimillionaires who spend like drunken sailors and look to there fans to buy $50 pixel statues to keep the dream alive.
Nearly four years and what is this game now?
Like I said earlier, I find it disgusting.
I see. So cowboy up it is, pardner.
So on a good month you pawn $50 metal slugs but on bad months you can't. Got it.
Because this correlates in any way. Again, why I lament the death of critical thinking. Too bad grown up conversations are impossible to have here anymore.
Na...
I make to order... you ask and I make to your satisfaction.
Zippity Zappity Zoom
Critical thinking? Oh there's not too much of that going on. That's why things like $50 pixel ponies and Candy Crush exist.
So if it's actually the same model, and it looks like it is, does the original source for that model have licensing that allows them to use it commercially? Does it allow them to resell it specifically as opposed to merely being an asset in a commercial product? Either way, it seems really scummy to charge for something that's available for free. And it does seem to be far too similar (exactly the same as far as I can see in those screenshots) to just be a different rearing horse statue model. (Various horse statues are uber common in the real world and fictional settings, so I expect to see them in assets stores by many different people, but jacking someone elses and selling it... total dick move if true)
Comments
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Risk vs Reward
Guess those terms mean shit these days.
My money says he's invested a pittance of his own cash on this title. These guys are just dicking around on someone else's dime.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Let's party like it is 1863!
Can we at least TRY to be objective? You own a company, right? What's the cost of running that company? These guys have 36 people listed on Linkedin. 6 of the 10 that I looked at, before it told me I couldn't do that anymore, said they were there for 3+ yeras. So even if we were to say that the revolving staff at Portalium averaged out to be 60% over the past 3 years, that would be 22 employees. So an MINIMUM, we're looking at a total investment in salaries of $5.3 million over the past 3 years of development, $7 million if we were to go back to the end of the KS campaign (March 2013) which is almost to the day. OK! Now, we've got to calculate labor burden on there. So I'm sure, being a business owner, you'll appreciate that 50% labor burden is relatively conservative, yes? So all said and done, that would put the 3 year development cost around the $8 million mark, or around $10.5 million for the 4 year development. Oh!! And that's considering 22 employees, not 36, as a constant over that time. Oh!! And that 36 number is just those who choose to list themselves on Linkedin.
So even if we went extremely conservative and said they've ONLY burned $8 million, which should almost be a certainty, then we can knock off the $2 million from the KS campaign. They've got around 50k owners on Steam. So even if each of those people bought it at $50, we'd be looking at another $2.5 million. So someone is going to be on the hook for the additional $3.5 million, MINIMUM! Considering they see south of 2k players every 2 weeks, they'd essentially have to sell these shiny statues to, literally, every single one. Not only that, but they'd need to sell 20, yes 20, other free statues at $50 to that ENTIRE 2000 player user base, EVERY YEAR, just to keep operations running.
Does this mean he's invested his own money? Beats the hell out of me, but I can't imagine that he'd want to devalue his own share in the company by selling to VCs who are going to beat you up on your valuation because that's how they make their money. Regardless, someone has eaten like $3 million so far and will continue taking million dollar baths each year this goes unfinished. Effectively, if this was a horse, it would be glue. It's what the people want though, so keep holding out hope!!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Congrats! You managed to help @Gdemami find something other than the LOL button
I actually agree with you here on the moral argument. The only reason this is even a problem is that it's been made public. I used to have a friend who worked at a now defunct shop of futuristic goods in Canada
Either way, the fact that we're all so connected and enlightened doesn't change the fact that if you think this is a moral issue, then every business operating out there today is amoral.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
You're projecting your very own dogmatic shit onto a game that like most games these days sell fluffy crap loosely related to the game world in lieu of actual meaningful game play content.
THAT is the issue not whether they're flipping assets.
So carry on leading the cheer for corporate genius while ignoring the real issues about lazy shit sales that has nothing to do with improving game play.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
No pain - No gain
Means that I had to make sacrifices, not all were monetary.
I've got myself to a place, where I 100% own everything. I didn't get there by buying fancy sports cars.
Sometimes minimizing your risk is knowing when to cut your losses.
I have a bad month, I can't be pawning $50 metal slugs off to my customers crying the poorhouse blues.
You got a bunch of multimillionaires who spend like drunken sailors and look to there fans to buy $50 pixel statues to keep the dream alive.
Nearly four years and what is this game now?
Like I said earlier, I find it disgusting.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I have a friend who works in the automotive and aerospace sector and I can tell you this happens all the time. In fact, they charge a couple hundred bucks for the same bearing that they sell for thousands into aerospace. Only difference is paperwork.
You can't talk about keeping the dream alive because there are actually people who are wanting this game, I guess. So if they want to support it, great for them. Last time I checked, they weren't instituting a mandatory buy on the horse statue. If they did then I could understand the big deal.
Oh, and I did address the matter of cost and salaries above. As a business owner I felt like you would be able to see that they aren't rolling in the dough and it seems unlikely that they are in the black even. So I don't know where you're getting all this party lifestyle spending spree bullshit. They just got a free asset, that's not blowing the bank.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
SOTA has failed big time.
The devs are greedy and stubborn.
We're an EA game, we listen to you! We will make a game that YOU will love!
Everything who has been said, has been ignored.
You can't even bring a topic about this, without being locked by this Berek.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
I seriously doubt he's put much of his money into it. He didn't even want to put his own money into his company and got it from investors then were running out of money to keep their business open and came up with the kickstarter scam for Sota.
Just look how they started out. They began by cheaping out using unity assets so they didnt have to do much coding, and they still been doing this for years. Laziness they barely make anything. Just throw a bunch of unity assets together and call it a game while milking backers that are left after the smart ones left them long ago once they saw what they were doing.
image: https://img.youtube.com/vi/gwdesp4g-KU/0.jpg
"I completely understand that without complete information this could be frustrating.
Assets like these are often only free if you do not resell them like we are. Even if it was free it doesn't just magically appear in the game without any effort. It takes actual development time to get it working in the game properly. Many hours in fact. Sometimes the textures have to be adjusted. Often we have to make levels of detail versions. We have to make simple colliders. We have to set all the proper decoration and permission flags. We then have to spend time adding it to offers and the add on store. That costs money. It is not free."
As you say the game is pretty niche and other than milking the existing player base there are not many other avenues to bring in enough money to continue the development of that game.
SOTA will never be able to shut down while Garriot is alive unless he plans to pay back the people who spent thousands on the extremely short sighted housing system in this game or there would be lawsuits galore + his name would be forever tarnished.
I enjoyed this game til I got to around 4 stars then realized I needed to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a house and never logged in again. I feel really bad for those people who spent thousands though, they should really be getting free stuff from this company on a monthly basis.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
A better analogy would be buying that bearing from the Dealership or from somebody like a Lordco. I went into a Yamaha dealership to buy a universal for a ATV. Yamaha wanted $75.00 for the main body, $12 x 4 for the bearings and $2.25 x 4 for the retainers. I laughed, cross referenced the universal and bought the whole unit for $19.75 Selling the universal in parts was comical. A universal for a 1 ton truck costs about $30.
People are free to buy all the horse statue's they like. I'm free to criticize it all I like.
I have 32 employees.
I pay over a million for a machine it takes me 2-3 years to get to the black and recoup that purchase, if times are good.
I have a 25000 sq ft shop filled with machinery, millions invested. I have to be globally competitive. As far as mfg is concerned, it's a fine line between black and red. Retailers sell some products for 4x what I sell it to them for. I've been to quite a few liquidation auctions in your Province.
Raising free capital via kickstarter and selling $50 pixel ponies in fantasy land. Why wouldn't a multimillionaire astronaut tourist take full advantage.
He payed 30mil to take that trip.
Fuck if he can't put out his own cash to build a complete consumer product.
What for?
Easy come... Easy go...
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I make to order... you ask and I make to your satisfaction.
Zippity Zappity Zoom
Critical thinking? Oh there's not too much of that going on. That's why things like $50 pixel ponies and Candy Crush exist.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
did someone notify unity? i dont think their free assets are meant to be used to "earn cash". ^^
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Either way, it seems really scummy to charge for something that's available for free.
And it does seem to be far too similar (exactly the same as far as I can see in those screenshots) to just be a different rearing horse statue model. (Various horse statues are uber common in the real world and fictional settings, so I expect to see them in assets stores by many different people, but jacking someone elses and selling it... total dick move if true)
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...