So what happened to PG planets and landing on them?

BeansnBread

Erillion said:

BeansnBread said:

Erillion said:

BeansnBread said:

CrazKanuk said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

Why would it be delusional? This is supposedly the most open and transparent game dev ever! So if that's the case why is stuff being shown to journalists and not to backers who actually paid to have this created?

The stuff shown to the journalists was also shown to the backers.

Maybe one day you'll learn more on business and marketing and then you may understand why a crowdfunded company like this still has to behave like a normal one when it comes to marketing. I think it's a fair giveaway due the highlight they get from it.

Nice passive aggressive there.

I thought this company wasn't going to spend any money on marketing and all cash was going towards the game development? After all their backers seem to be doing the marketing for them.

Correction. Apart from the perpetually updated Erillion posts, it should be noted that the majority of new posts are being created by the SC doomsayers. Go take a peek on the SC Forum here. After that, sure the backers are here to play keep-up with the posts for as long as possible, but backers, err white knights, are rarely creating any new posts now.

Which is perfectly normal for a game that people are losing faith in. If the supporters are disappearing and the opposition is becoming beginning to become the dominant force, perhaps there is a reason for that. (Of course when a white knight generalizes everyone as doomsayers because they see major problems with their absolutely terrible ability to meet deadlines, it also lends credence to the idea that there is something very wrong).

Strangely, the money keeps rolling in. And so there must be a lot of people that simply don't care about the issues. If you take a step back, it fits perfectly in-line with RL happenings. What people want to believe seems to be a more powerful force than what is reality.

Funny that you call a game that is gaining several thousand new supporters every week (for a current total of around 1.8 million) a project that "people are losing faith in".

The numbers do not support your statement.

Which may well be your personal opinion - opinions (as we all know) do not necessarily have to be based on facts.


Have fun

I think opinions should be based on facts though. Like, do we know that those people that have signed up for an account are supporters? How many have left? That number only goes up. We are not able to see how many it has gone down every month. Perhaps it is going down faster than it is rising.

The problem with almost all of your supportive statistics is that you don't actually have access to the full story. So, you end up in a place like this (and I do as well) where you make an assertion that the number of accounts is going up (easily manipulated). But you don't actually know how many of the previous accounts have lost total and complete interest in the project and you don't know how many are actually supportive of the project.

My comment was based on the assertion by Canuk that most threads are now made by people with negative opinions as opposed to positive ones. That is not a good sign, no matter what game you are looking at.

I know that the number in the Guiness Book of Records goes up every year. Which is a number checked by a neutral third party. A verifiable fact.


Have fun

shm... Yes, accounts are definitely being created.

Erillion

Gdemami said:

Erillion said:

Gdemami said:

Erillion said:

That may well be your opinion - I do NOT share your opinion.

Not at all, that is an opinion of authority you appeal to - he explicitely stated he thought they  have it already in.

Feel free to quote the relevant text passage here.


Have fun

"With the absence of such an announcement until that time, I had been assuming CIG either wasn't going to need 64bit 3-D space or had done it already and wasn't going to announce it.

If 64bit 3-D space is something you need, and you don't have it, it's a complete project killer."

And CIG has 64 bit 3-D space in.

What exactly is your point ?



Have fun


PS:
Again in the words of the articles author:

On the issue of 64 bit CryEngine:
"...I can't tell you for sure how CIG has solved that problem, but I can tell you it looks like the studio has definitely solved it, based on its most recent gameplay videos...."

Erillion

BeansnBread said:

Erillion said:

BeansnBread said:

Erillion said:

BeansnBread said:

CrazKanuk said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

Why would it be delusional? This is supposedly the most open and transparent game dev ever! So if that's the case why is stuff being shown to journalists and not to backers who actually paid to have this created?

The stuff shown to the journalists was also shown to the backers.

Maybe one day you'll learn more on business and marketing and then you may understand why a crowdfunded company like this still has to behave like a normal one when it comes to marketing. I think it's a fair giveaway due the highlight they get from it.

Nice passive aggressive there.

I thought this company wasn't going to spend any money on marketing and all cash was going towards the game development? After all their backers seem to be doing the marketing for them.

Correction. Apart from the perpetually updated Erillion posts, it should be noted that the majority of new posts are being created by the SC doomsayers. Go take a peek on the SC Forum here. After that, sure the backers are here to play keep-up with the posts for as long as possible, but backers, err white knights, are rarely creating any new posts now.

Which is perfectly normal for a game that people are losing faith in. If the supporters are disappearing and the opposition is becoming beginning to become the dominant force, perhaps there is a reason for that. (Of course when a white knight generalizes everyone as doomsayers because they see major problems with their absolutely terrible ability to meet deadlines, it also lends credence to the idea that there is something very wrong).

Strangely, the money keeps rolling in. And so there must be a lot of people that simply don't care about the issues. If you take a step back, it fits perfectly in-line with RL happenings. What people want to believe seems to be a more powerful force than what is reality.

Funny that you call a game that is gaining several thousand new supporters every week (for a current total of around 1.8 million) a project that "people are losing faith in".

The numbers do not support your statement.

Which may well be your personal opinion - opinions (as we all know) do not necessarily have to be based on facts.


Have fun

I think opinions should be based on facts though. Like, do we know that those people that have signed up for an account are supporters? How many have left? That number only goes up. We are not able to see how many it has gone down every month. Perhaps it is going down faster than it is rising.

The problem with almost all of your supportive statistics is that you don't actually have access to the full story. So, you end up in a place like this (and I do as well) where you make an assertion that the number of accounts is going up (easily manipulated). But you don't actually know how many of the previous accounts have lost total and complete interest in the project and you don't know how many are actually supportive of the project.

My comment was based on the assertion by Canuk that most threads are now made by people with negative opinions as opposed to positive ones. That is not a good sign, no matter what game you are looking at.

I know that the number in the Guiness Book of Records goes up every year. Which is a number checked by a neutral third party. A verifiable fact.


Have fun

shm... Yes, accounts are definitely being created.

The Guiness Book of Records checks the money, not the accounts.


Have fun

BeansnBread

Erillion said:

BeansnBread said:

shm... Yes, accounts are definitely being created.

The Guiness Book of Records checks the money, not the accounts.


Have fun

Once again, yes, the money is going up. It will never go down. Even in my original post I said:

"Strangely, the money keeps rolling in. And so there must be a lot of people that simply don't care about the issues. If you take a step back, it fits perfectly in-line with RL happenings. What people want to believe seems to be a more powerful force than what is reality."

Gdemami

Erillion said:

And CIG has 64 bit 3-D space in.

What exactly is your point ?

My point? That's weird to ask, considering you linked the article....

Regardless, point of the author is that concerns about implementing 64bit shift this late in development are legitimate.

Erillion

Gdemami said:

Erillion said:

And CIG has 64 bit 3-D space in.

What exactly is your point ?

My point? That's weird to ask, considering you linked the article....

Regardless, point of the author is that concerns about implementing 64bit shift this late in development are legitimate.

The OTHER point of the author is that he thinks CIG "now" has a working system. With "now" being 1.5 years ago. 


Have fun

Gdemami

Erillion said:

The OTHER point of the author is that he thinks CIG "now" has a working system. With "now" being 1.5 years ago. 

Erm, no. That is your...statement...can't even say a point since it does not make SC development any less of a lackluster.

Given current state of the project and SQ42 not anywhere near release, one has to doubt "working system" part... 

Erillion

Gdemami said:

Erillion said:

The OTHER point of the author is that he thinks CIG "now" has a working system. With "now" being 1.5 years ago. 

Erm, no. That is your...statement...can't even say a point since it does not make SC development any less of a lackluster.

Given current state of the project and SQ42 not anywhere near release, one has to doubt "working system" part... 

That is not "my" statement. I can post the words of the  author of the article a third time:


On the issue of 64 bit CryEngine:
"...I can't tell you for sure how CIG has solved that problem, but I can tell you it looks like the studio has definitely solved it, based on its most recent gameplay videos...."


Have fun

CrazKanuk

BeansnBread said:

CrazKanuk said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

Why would it be delusional? This is supposedly the most open and transparent game dev ever! So if that's the case why is stuff being shown to journalists and not to backers who actually paid to have this created?

The stuff shown to the journalists was also shown to the backers.

Maybe one day you'll learn more on business and marketing and then you may understand why a crowdfunded company like this still has to behave like a normal one when it comes to marketing. I think it's a fair giveaway due the highlight they get from it.

Nice passive aggressive there.

I thought this company wasn't going to spend any money on marketing and all cash was going towards the game development? After all their backers seem to be doing the marketing for them.

Correction. Apart from the perpetually updated Erillion posts, it should be noted that the majority of new posts are being created by the SC doomsayers. Go take a peek on the SC Forum here. After that, sure the backers are here to play keep-up with the posts for as long as possible, but backers, err white knights, are rarely creating any new posts now.

Which is perfectly normal for a game that people are losing faith in. If the supporters are disappearing and the opposition is becoming beginning to become the dominant force, perhaps there is a reason for that. (Of course when a white knight generalizes everyone as doomsayers because they see major problems with their absolutely terrible ability to meet deadlines, it also lends credence to the idea that there is something very wrong).

Strangely, the money keeps rolling in. And so there must be a lot of people that simply don't care about the issues. If you take a step back, it fits perfectly in-line with RL happenings. What people want to believe seems to be a more powerful force than what is reality.

Oh, but I'm not generalizing, I'm talking about a handful of people. That's not generalizing. 

MaxBacon

BeansnBread said:

My comment was based on the assertion by Canuk that most threads are now made by people with negative opinions as opposed to positive ones. That is not a good sign, no matter what game you are looking at.

What? The Star Citizen forum is still the most active flame wars and pointless circular discussions of entire MMORPG!

This forum surrounds that for years now, It's the same as before, only with less crazy. And faaar more boring because the so-called "critics" don't have anything else but re-post the same thing over and over again.

Maybe i'll create a positive thread, but then it'll be about "booo paid shill gtfo". DEM EXTREMES! xD

BeansnBread

CrazKanuk said:

Oh, but I'm not generalizing, I'm talking about a handful of people. That's not generalizing. 

 Insulting a group of people without being able to name them is just cowardly.

Shaigh

I keep reading how we can't hold CIG accountable for delays because the scope changed. Since end of 2014 they stopped making stretch goals so they could focus on delivering the game. In a letter made in mid 2015 CR spoke about feature creep and that the whole point of SC was that it was big. He also said that it was a tough call to stop with stretch goals but it was something they had to do.

In january 2015 which was after scope was made, SC was on the last stage and the whole project would be completed in 2016. At end of 2015 they made a huge announcement that SQ42 would be released in 2016. As CR stated, they didn't expand the scope so it wasn't because things changed that they failed with those dates.

If we think about it rationally and look at the different parts you would notice there's a good reason why everything ends up delayed. The scope of the PU is similar to a very ambitious mmorpg that requires a lot of new solutions to develop the whole thing, the scope of SQ42 is a singleplayer campaign, star marine is a multiplayer shooter. MMORPG project takes around 3-6 years of production to create, a singleplayer campaign game takes 2-3 years to make, a multiplayer shooter would take 2 years to make.

Add those things together and you are looking at something that takes from 7 up to 12 years to make which means we have the whole thing sometime between 2020 and 2025 and the whole project would cost something like $250M-$500M to be finished.

I do believe star citizen can be made, I think each part could be fun but to be made fans would have to pay $2M-$3M per month for a very long time or it will have all been for naught.

MaxBacon

Shaigh said:
As CR stated, they didn't expand the scope so it wasn't because things changed that they failed with those dates.

They did admit to its cause though, when this as one entire part of the game, worked on for 2 years ends up being scrapped rewritten again, due mistakes on the process they did indeed admit to. That together with the normal setup of development within the reality of delays, and the complexity of the project, it does not require any conspiracy to understand why.

But even after 2015 the scope kept increasing outside the stretch goals, PG Planets (that weren't meant to be there by release) were the one big design change that also impacted SQ42 in how now has gameplay laid on planets.

rpmcmurphy

MaxBacon said:

They did admit to its cause though, when this as one entire part of the game, worked on for 2 years ends up being scrapped rewritten again, due mistakes on the process they did indeed admit to.

Let's be honest here. They had almost 18 months to announce to backers what was going on and chose not to do so, the only reason people found out was because some website was doing an investigation into why the project/studio was in such a mess.

If that investigation hadn't occured we would all still be none the wiser and still arguing about whether SM was scrapped or not, whether assets were going to be reused and the delay only occuring due to new animations etc

Shodanas

Erillion said:

Gdemami said:

Erillion said:

The OTHER point of the author is that he thinks CIG "now" has a working system. With "now" being 1.5 years ago. 

Erm, no. That is your...statement...can't even say a point since it does not make SC development any less of a lackluster.

Given current state of the project and SQ42 not anywhere near release, one has to doubt "working system" part... 

That is not "my" statement. I can post the words of the  author of the article a third time:


On the issue of 64 bit CryEngine:
"...I can't tell you for sure how CIG has solved that problem, but I can tell you it looks like the studio has definitely solved it, based on its most recent gameplay videos...."


Have fun

Don't bother. The guy is here to say his piece and so he will no matter how many times you direct him to the article in question.

MaxBacon

rpmcmurphy said:

If that investigation hadn't occured we would all still be none the wiser and still arguing about whether SM was scrapped or not, whether assets were going to be reused and the delay only occuring due to new animations etc

They could have said that on the start, even though I think they at first tried to fix and work around the problems they were facing and that was a process that lead to the outcome we now know of, but independent of that, they did admit to their own mistakes on the process of the development and the cost they took on obviously start something already years in dev again in-doors. Important being, they ensure that doesn't happen again side of what is englobes the sphere of a normal game dev.

Erillion

rpmcmurphy said:

MaxBacon said:

They did admit to its cause though, when this as one entire part of the game, worked on for 2 years ends up being scrapped rewritten again, due mistakes on the process they did indeed admit to.

Let's be honest here. They had almost 18 months to announce to backers what was going on and chose not to do so, the only reason people found out was because some website was doing an investigation into why the project/studio was in such a mess.

If that investigation hadn't occured we would all still be none the wiser and still arguing about whether SM was scrapped or not, whether assets were going to be reused and the delay only occuring due to new animations etc

>>

because some website was doing an investigation into why the project/studio was in such a mess.
>>

And what website would that be ?

If your answer to that will be: "The Escapist" magazine  - and their crappy attempt at investigative journalism based on compromised and/or fake sources -  .....  then i am sure i can interest you in a nice beachside house in the Denver area. Great view of the sea, cheap prices ... you will love it.

Have fun

MaxBacon

Erillion said:
And what website would that be ?

I was, and I think so did he, talking about the kokatu articles

rpmcmurphy

Erillion said:

>>

because some website was doing an investigation into why the project/studio was in such a mess.
>>

And what website would that be ?

If your answer to that will be: "The Escapist" magazine  - and their crappy attempt at investigative journalism based on compromised and/or fake sources -  .....  then i am sure i can interest you in a nice beachside house in the Denver area. Great view of the sea, cheap prices ... you will love it.

Have fun

No. It was this article http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen

The Escapist article was published only 6 months after SM was meant to come out, also there was no discussion about Star Marine in that article.

Erillion

rpmcmurphy said:

Erillion said:

>>

because some website was doing an investigation into why the project/studio was in such a mess.
>>

And what website would that be ?

If your answer to that will be: "The Escapist" magazine  - and their crappy attempt at investigative journalism based on compromised and/or fake sources -  .....  then i am sure i can interest you in a nice beachside house in the Denver area. Great view of the sea, cheap prices ... you will love it.

Have fun

No. It was this article http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen

The Escapist article was published only 6 months after SM was meant to come out, also there was no discussion about Star Marine in that article.

The Kotaku article was a good one. Especially as it looked at Star Citizen from many different sides ... and was based on around 100 sources. When it comes to the discussion of development problems, there is one paragraph I find rather enlightening:
"Roberts and his team did not deny any of them (though they did contest the severity of the problems’ impacts). But despite everything, most of the staff we talked to still passionately believe in this unwieldy, ever-changing dream project."

And the fans - like the staff - do the same.


Have fun

Gdemami

Erillion said:

The Kotaku article was a good one. Especially as it looked at Star Citizen from many different sides ... and was based on around 100 sources. When it comes to the discussion of development problems, there is one paragraph I find rather enlightening:
"Roberts and his team did not deny any of them (though they did contest the severity of the problems’ impacts). But despite everything, most of the staff we talked to still passionately believe in this unwieldy, ever-changing dream project."

And the fans - like the staff - do the same.


Have fun

Selective memory and confirmation bias are wonderful.....

Erillion

This has nothing to do with selective memory. I quoted a passage from an article. Verbatim. It's called "citing sources". 

I am a Star Citizen fan. Of course I am biased. 


Have fun

Gdemami

Erillion said:

This has nothing to do with selective memory. I quoted a passage from an article. Verbatim. It's called "citing sources". 

I am a Star Citizen fan. Of course I am biased.

If you only could understand the irony of your post...

MaxBacon

Gdemami said:
If you only could understand the irony of your post...

Shhh you, go back to spam posts with LOL!
So it was written, there shall be no un-lol'ded post on this forum, so it shall be.

adamlotus75

'It looks like it works in 64 bit based on recent videos' is like saying 'it looks like Disney have built real working spaceships! Omg did you see Star Wars?!'