Should a professional game site post an article about reddit leaks that break NDA?

PottedPlant22

No opinion one way or other from me.  Curious what the community here thinks.

Wellspring

Is this in regards to a specific situation? or just a hypothetical question?

PottedPlant22

Wellspring said:

Is this in regards to a specific situation? or just a hypothetical question?

I would like to keep in general because I don't know if discussing a specific situation would be in violation of the rules on this site.

Wellspring

Meh. I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world as it is is vexing enough.

Forgrimm

Talking about this article? http://massivelyop.com/2017/04/06/secret-worlds-legends-beta-leaks-show-a-vastly-changed-game/

Kyleran

A bit of bad form which could come back to haunt the news site if the Devs get upset and decide not to share information with them in the future.

mystik13

Provided the leaks are treated as rumour and not necessarily final.  Participants are not necessarily aware of context and upcoming changes.  If sites were to ignore such leaks or censor discussion users may look for other less draconian venues.

CrazKanuk

Kyleran said:

A bit of bad form which could come back to haunt the news site if the Devs get upset and decide not to share information with them in the future.

I would hope so! Honestly it just propagates badness. There are enough assumptions made in Open Betas which have shown to disappoint people on release, never mind Closed. 

Rusque

Well the leaker is the one breaking the NDA, not the person reporting on the leak. If they are found to be the same person or in collusion, that's another matter; but if we assume separate actors, then it's totally fine to report on the leaked info.

TyranusPrime

Normally I am a "let the news be spread far and wide, for this is the information age!" kind of guy.. However, posting leaks that specifically go against NDA policies is pretty unprofessional in my opinion..

For starters, the "source" can already be construed to be vermin since their word (aka. them clicking the little button that said "yep, I won't disclose this) is worthless.. Secondly, despite my "free the information!" stance, I am not devoid of a sense of journalistic responsibility and integrity.. There is a time to provide information (such as when the public is being genuinely deceived) and a time not to (such as in respecting a company's right to protect their prosperity)..

Imagine how quickly that leaked beta information could become a severe problem.. Since beta features are usually subject to change, these leaks may be very inaccurate.. Sure, they may have truthful observations of features or changes that make it into the finished project, but when has that NOT happened? Suddenly, news (that can be dubious) spins out of control and opinion of the game shifts to the negative before it even exits Beta.. Some devs might rush to panic-mode and, in an attempt to stem the tide of player disfavor, end up hurting the game overall.. Don't even get me started on how quickly this could ultimately spiral into investor panic, studio collapse, and lost jobs..

Back in the day, you were pretty damn lucky to do anything Beta oriented and it was kind of an honor.. We didn't have pre-orders.. Or early access.. We bought the game off the shelf and it was great or it sucked.. Modern times aid us a lot in providing reports before release from game critics that allow us to make up our minds BEFORE we shell out the cash.. Relying on game critics, who legitimately get access to pre-launch copies, solves most of the problems of worrying whether or not a game will be worth it.. Plus, I'd rather formulate my own opinions on what I see and hear from informed sources..

I want accurate information on my games as much as possible, but not at the cost of what might eventually come to pass.. At some point, devs will just say F-it and stop trusting players completely.. With no betas, time to produce games will take even longer and more bugs will slip past dev scrutiny.. In the end, game companies, distributors, and players alike will all suffer..

CrazKanuk

Torval said:

CrazKanuk said:

Kyleran said:

A bit of bad form which could come back to haunt the news site if the Devs get upset and decide not to share information with them in the future.

I would hope so! Honestly it just propagates badness. There are enough assumptions made in Open Betas which have shown to disappoint people on release, never mind Closed. 

Massively has always sort of skated the fine line and whored themselves out for a buck (clicks) if they could.

If they gave me a Legendary title for their forums I'd totally sell out and go over there, claiming that I love them  

laserit

I just think it's in bad taste, but what does that matter these days

Vrika

I think it depends on the situation.

Normally the devs should be given some privacy to work and freedom to release information about their game at their own pace. Websites shouldn't post information under NDA just to get more readers.

But on the other hand I think news websites should not respect NDA to the point of hiding important information from us for too long. If a game already asking for our money looks like it has problems, or that it's not what we expect, then websites should be ready to ignore NDA and tell us about it.

PottedPlant22

MO updated with Roman's reply -

"The problem with a leak like this isn’t “people finding out about how the game is going to be”. It’s quite the opposite: it’s still in development, it’s not ready for that kind of scrutiny, and that leads to misunderstandings and misconceptions that are doing nothing but a disservice to the game, the team working on it, and future players.

The Closed Beta is under NDA as we are still doing changes, additions, tweaks, and improvements for what will be in the release version. Nothing is set in stone yet and many of the details here are still in development and were planned to be made ready to test for future beta updates.

There is too much here to address individually, but one example of misinformation is the idea of the investigation missions having changed: they haven’t. We added one investigation mission tutorial. Combat is another thing we’re heavily focused on right now. Only a few weapons are currently available in the beta, to give everyone a chance to give feedback, to make sure each feels fun and balanced. For example, the information released about Blood is invalid, since the weapon isn’t currently available on the beta servers.

We have always made sure press and influencers have access to pre-launch betas so that they can report from our games before they release. We will do the same for Secret World Legends, but need the chance to polish the silverware, put up the lights, and sweep the floors before we lift the NDA and open for everyone to evaluate the game and judge us on what we’re delivering.

I should also mention that we’re doing another edition of our biweekly developer stream tomorrow, April 7, on Twitch.tv/Funcom in case anyone wants to tune in! We’ll be discussing more about Secret World Legends, specifically about the content that we feel is ready to talk about. "

Wellspring

Well, now they'll have way more people tuning in for their live stream tomorrow b/c of the leak. No such thing as bad press.

PottedPlant22

Wellspring said:

Well, now they'll have way more people tuning in for their live stream tomorrow b/c of the leak. No such thing as bad press.

That is very true.

H0urg1ass

The only person who can be held accountable for an NDA is the person who signed it, so report away.

If you don't, then someone else will beat you to it and steal your advertising clicks.  Any game company that held that against you as a journalist are morons.  

Just make sure you heavily preface your article with "While we don't condone breaking NDA's, as it's a bad practice all around, it is being reported that..."

Kyleran

H0urg1ass said:

The only person who can be held accountable for an NDA is the person who signed it, so report away.

If you don't, then someone else will beat you to it and steal your advertising clicks.  Any game company that held that against you as a journalist are morons.  

Just make sure you heavily preface your article with "While we don't condone breaking NDA's, as it's a bad practice all around, it is being reported that..."

Your compass is broken....

Unsurprising.

kitarad

Integrity that is what is missing here.

Ozmodan

Well an NDA used to be something that was important, that was long before you had to pay to play alphas and betas.  Not anymore.  Personally if you are going to make me pay to play a game, I consider the game released and that means I can say anything I like about it.

It is strictly the developers fault for bringing this about.  The only thing this has to do with integrity is the developers greed.

laserit

Ozmodan said:

Well an NDA used to be something that was important, that was long before you had to pay to play alphas and betas.  Not anymore.  Personally if you are going to make me pay to play a game, I consider the game released and that means I can say anything I like about it.

It is strictly the developers fault for bringing this about.  The only thing this has to do with integrity is the developers greed.

My understanding is that this is not about a paid for, early access, alpha/beta. The product is not for sale yet, its a real beta. If you sign an agreement such as an NDA, you should honour it. The story IMHO was in bad taste because they published the breaks. It's akin to reporting a story of how some peeping tom took pictures of a naked women in a shower and then also publishing the said pictures.

H0urg1ass

Kyleran said:

H0urg1ass said:

The only person who can be held accountable for an NDA is the person who signed it, so report away.

If you don't, then someone else will beat you to it and steal your advertising clicks.  Any game company that held that against you as a journalist are morons.  

Just make sure you heavily preface your article with "While we don't condone breaking NDA's, as it's a bad practice all around, it is being reported that..."

Your compass is broken....

Unsurprising.

Lets put this in perspective.  It's an NDA on a video game.  Hardly the end of the world.  

If it were to be the end of the world, then there wouldn't be a closed beta at all and only people with TS/SCI clearances and a current CI polygraph (like myself) would be allowed into them.  My 16 year old son got into a couple of closed betas with NDA's.  You might as well let Edward Snowden into your closed beta if you're going to hand it out to kids with no real concept of what it means.

H0urg1ass

laserit said:

Ozmodan said:

Well an NDA used to be something that was important, that was long before you had to pay to play alphas and betas.  Not anymore.  Personally if you are going to make me pay to play a game, I consider the game released and that means I can say anything I like about it.

It is strictly the developers fault for bringing this about.  The only thing this has to do with integrity is the developers greed.

My understanding is that this is not about a paid for, early access, alpha/beta. The product is not for sale yet, its a real beta. If you sign an agreement such as an NDA, you should honour it. The story IMHO was in bad taste because they published the breaks. It's akin to reporting a story of how some peeping tom took pictures of a naked women in a shower and then also publishing the said pictures.

In the realm of moral equivalency, these two things are not even remotely the same at all.  While I agree that you should honor any contract that you make, the consequences of these two very different things leaking are vastly different.  One might hurt a corporate image, the other can potentially destroy a personal image and ruin the life of someone.

Kyleran

H0urg1ass said:

Kyleran said:

H0urg1ass said:

The only person who can be held accountable for an NDA is the person who signed it, so report away.

If you don't, then someone else will beat you to it and steal your advertising clicks.  Any game company that held that against you as a journalist are morons.  

Just make sure you heavily preface your article with "While we don't condone breaking NDA's, as it's a bad practice all around, it is being reported that..."

Your compass is broken....

Unsurprising.

Lets put this in perspective.  It's an NDA on a video game.  Hardly the end of the world.  

If it were to be the end of the world, then there wouldn't be a closed beta at all and only people with TS/SCI clearances and a current CI polygraph (like myself) would be allowed into them.  My 16 year old son got into a couple of closed betas with NDA's.  You might as well let Edward Snowden into your closed beta if you're going to hand it out to kids with no real concept of what it means.

If one does not understand that right and wrong is not a matter of degree, but more of a binary concept which does not depend on the amount of harm it causes, then they have not learned a key element in life.

Scares me that you have security clearance.  

H0urg1ass

Kyleran said:

H0urg1ass said:

Kyleran said:

H0urg1ass said:

The only person who can be held accountable for an NDA is the person who signed it, so report away.

If you don't, then someone else will beat you to it and steal your advertising clicks.  Any game company that held that against you as a journalist are morons.  

Just make sure you heavily preface your article with "While we don't condone breaking NDA's, as it's a bad practice all around, it is being reported that..."

Your compass is broken....

Unsurprising.

Lets put this in perspective.  It's an NDA on a video game.  Hardly the end of the world.  

If it were to be the end of the world, then there wouldn't be a closed beta at all and only people with TS/SCI clearances and a current CI polygraph (like myself) would be allowed into them.  My 16 year old son got into a couple of closed betas with NDA's.  You might as well let Edward Snowden into your closed beta if you're going to hand it out to kids with no real concept of what it means.

If one does not understand that right and wrong is not a matter of degree, but more of a binary concept which does not depend on the amount of harm it causes, then they have not learned a key element in life.

Then we're arguing two different things and you may wish to improve your reading comprehension.  I stated that it's wrong to break your contracts and that I don't agree with leaking information.  

I then stated that once the hole is in the dam, it's stupid to stand there as a journalist and say "Nope, that information isn't really out there.  Just gonna ignore it".  Once it's out, it's out.

Also, right and wrong is absolutely not binary in any way shape or form and a great deal of it is based on perspective and upbringing.  You and I, for instance, probably wouldn't stone our sisters to death for dressing like a slut and sleeping around with several boyfriends.  In many Muslim countries, to the contrary, she is breaking the law and stoning is fitting punishment, and in their eyes it's absolutely the right thing to do.

H0urg1ass

Kyleran said:

Scares me that you have security clearance.  

Yeah, well I've had one for close to two decades and never broken my oath to my country or leaked any information.  Again, reading comprehension.  I wouldn't break my oath, but did reporters run with what Edward Snowden leaked?  Of fucking course they did.