Oh, and one more thing, I'm not even a PvPer really. I've only PvPed very little in two mmorpgs. Everquest 2 and Neverwinter. Both of those games have horrible PvP systems. It's a joke.
I did PvP a lot in the old MySpace games (mostly text-based with some still images) called Heroes, Mobsters, Outworld, and Bloodlines, but those weren't really mmorpgs. Not in the sense we usually think about them anyway. But if you want to call them that, I suppose I did grief/gank in those games. To be totally honest. But those games were pretty much all about free-for-all griefing and ganking. You could not only fight, rob and kill people, you could also post bounties and collect bounties.
Pluralities are over-rated. Catering to them is equally useless.
I'm won't be catering to anyone. I'm trying to make the game I want to play. One that I'm pretty sure others will want to play as well. But if some people don't, no skin off my back. There will always be games like Pokemon, Candy Crush, World of Warcraft, and Final Fantasy XXXXXXXX-infinity-X. Maybe and/or hopefully depending on your tastes and point-of-view. As long as our current civilizations last anyway. And people still have desire, time, energy, and resources available to play games.
The $800,000 CoE fund says hello. People who can't stand that games aren't developed 100% for them need to let that idea die. Over sensitivity in games needs to die. Pvp isn't going anywhere.
There are and will be plenty of pve focused games as well. Enjoy those.
I agree that PvP isn't going away, and I'm not asking for it to. The only thing I'm really asking for is a separation of the two or at least game mechanics that prevent non-consensual PvP. Like I said earlier, my thread title was sub-optimal, it should have read "The time for non-consensual PvP has come and gone".
Is there a way to edit a thread title?
Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Criticize the "carebears" all you want but in your heart of hearts you know that I'm right and you see the handwriting on the wall. The majority of gamers do not want non-consensual PvP. There's a reason this topic keeps coming back up week after week, as you complain.
There's nothing wrong with PvP per se, it's the non-consensual part of it that is the problem, appealing only to those who cherish the thought of ruining someone else's day. It's like the guys in ArcheAge who would park their wagons at the front of a bridge, preventing any of the traders from crossing it. What is the point of that? Nothing other than to annoy and harass other players, it's that simple. They love it, just like they love ganking players who have no interest in fighting other players.
If you want "a good fight", fine, go play Crowfall or get bat shit crazy with Mark Jacobs. But we both know that what you *really* want is the pleasure of seeing another human being pissed off over something you did to them. It's the same thrill you get when you cut people off on the highway lol, it's thematic with you.
Is this meant to be taken seriously? If so, you have a lot of fact finding to do.
1. Where do you get the "majority' of players do not want non-consensual PvP?
2. In my heart of hearts I wish to test myself against other players, I seldom attack less geared/experienced players and if I do so, I leave them be after that. My question to you is: How can you justify speaking for essentially everyone that plays video games with these statements? DO you have one fact you can present?
3. Arche age. ok so get off your wagon, kill them and then ram the wagon out of the way. It is, after all, a PvP game so do PvP. Or don't play PvP games, as has been pointed out too many times to count. Also, Arche age is a game with a player driven economy, if they keep you from making trades, they are doing it right and well within the rule set of that game.
Your last statement, again you want to speak for the entire genre with these broad generalizations? Can you prove exactly what I am feeling when I fight someone in a game?
How about irl? How do I feel irl when I am at the gym rolling with other students? How do I feel then? You don't know, you have no way of saying 100% Well Hatefull you feel like ________. You can't know as you do not know me, nor do you know me in a game. Wild conjecture.
I think you have a lot of learning to do, right now you are trying to defend your very weak points with wild conjecture and non-sensical statements. You are not a dumb person, that is obvious, I just think you need to better support your points with fact and solid opinions based on fact.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I agree that PvP isn't going away, and I'm not asking for it to. The only thing I'm really asking for is a separation of the two or at least game mechanics that prevent non-consensual PvP. Like I said earlier, my thread title was sub-optimal, it should have read "The time for non-consensual PvP has come and gone".
Is there a way to edit a thread title?
Yes, you can edit a thread title. You should see a gear symbol on the thread list page near the title, or you can do it on the first page of your thread by clicking on a similar gear symbol.
I don't think it will ever come and go, it's a constant thing and a constant offer.
The merge of PvE with PvP on an MMO that is quite challenging to please both play styles, on that aspect I think there's many people actively wanting something that would do it right.
Why would a person that doesn't like non-consensus pvp play a game that was specifically made to have ffa owpvp and no pve server? There are plenty of good games with separate pve/pvp servers or with no pvp at all except in designated areas.
Why would a person that doesn't like non-consensus pvp play a game that was specifically made to have ffa owpvp and no pve server? There are plenty of good games with separate pve/pvp servers or with no pvp at all except in designated areas.
That's true. No one has to play or participate in any game they don't like. No one has to play games period. There are a lot of other things to do in life. Me, I want to play a good, fair and competitive pvp mmorpg, but I don't think there are any. Except for EVE, and I'm not a big fan of space warfare.
Why would a person that doesn't like non-consensus pvp play a game that was specifically made to have ffa owpvp and no pve server? There are plenty of good games with separate pve/pvp servers or with no pvp at all except in designated areas.
Because the game is otherwise very appealing. ArcheAge and Black Desert are both triple-A MMOs with with rich content for crop and animal farming, economic trading, and crafting. Even Albion Online gets a lot of players who simply like the crop and animal farming aspects of the game, supplemented by dungeons and Expeditions. The question isn't why PvE'ers want to play these games, the question *should* be, "Why do PvP players feel it necessary to be able to kill people who don't want to PvP?"
Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
I agree that PvP isn't going away, and I'm not asking for it to. The only thing I'm really asking for is a separation of the two or at least game mechanics that prevent non-consensual PvP. Like I said earlier, my thread title was sub-optimal, it should have read "The time for non-consensual PvP has come and gone".
Is there a way to edit a thread title?
Yes, you can edit a thread title. You should see a gear symbol on the thread list page near the title, or you can do it on the first page of your thread by clicking on a similar gear symbol.
I agree that PvP isn't going away, and I'm not asking for it to. The only thing I'm really asking for is a separation of the two or at least game mechanics that prevent non-consensual PvP. Like I said earlier, my thread title was sub-optimal, it should have read "The time for non-consensual PvP has come and gone".
Is there a way to edit a thread title?
Yes, you can edit a thread title. You should see a gear symbol on the thread list page near the title, or you can do it on the first page of your thread by clicking on a similar gear symbol.
Thank you!
Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
If PvP players only want to gank (what you said I just used the common word for it) then explain how MMO FPS games, Arena shooters, arena stabbers, MOBAS, and MMORPG arena's still existing? Why would developers continue to develop and maintain these systems if they don't work?
I'll foot this question.
I see you have not heard of Aim-Bots and other cheat programs. If you have played any MOBA's you will see that they are riddled with people that use these programs. They use these programs to feel powerful, to take advantage of players that want an honest game.
Answer me this, if the people who wanted to play a PvP game did it for the love of the game, why would they make and download hack programs?
Truth is, the same people that want to farm PvE players are the same people that will heat against honest PvP players.
As for e-Sports. Much like how PvE is the selling point of most MMO's, fair games are the selling point of MOBA's to the point where honest PvP players, have gotten so fed up with cheaters that they became willing to put down money just to shut them down.
There are a lot of people who enjoy a game as a game and want to play a game as intended, but often those people that enjoy the aspect of PvP, want it to be not only fair, but also consensual, neither is the case in Open-World-PvP MMO's.
Which tells us all we need to know about the people that want Open-World-PvP.
Why would a person that doesn't like non-consensus pvp play a game that was specifically made to have ffa owpvp and no pve server? There are plenty of good games with separate pve/pvp servers or with no pvp at all except in designated areas.
I get the feels that Albion Online is gonna tank hard because of that. Too many people are simply gonna opt to play something else.
If PvP players only want to gank (what you said I just used the common word for it) then explain how MMO FPS games, Arena shooters, arena stabbers, MOBAS, and MMORPG arena's still existing? Why would developers continue to develop and maintain these systems if they don't work?
I'll foot this question.
I see you have not heard of Aim-Bots and other cheat programs. If you have played any MOBA's you will see that they are riddled with people that use these programs. They use these programs to feel powerful, to take advantage of players that want an honest game.
Answer me this, if the people who wanted to play a PvP game did it for the love of the game, why would they make and download hack programs?
Truth is, the same people that want to farm PvE players are the same people that will heat against honest PvP players.
As for e-Sports. Much like how PvE is the selling point of most MMO's, fair games are the selling point of MOBA's to the point where honest PvP players, have gotten so fed up with cheaters that they became willing to put down money just to shut them down.
There are a lot of people who enjoy a game as a game and want to play a game as intended, but often those people that enjoy the aspect of PvP, want it to be not only fair, but also consensual, neither is the case in Open-World-PvP MMO's.
Which tells us all we need to know about the people that want Open-World-PvP.
WoW...you should have left this one alone. Seriously.
1st of all, yes I have heard of cheat programs, I have been gaming since EQ and I started shooters when HALO came out and I generally stay abreast of what is going on with all the genres of games.
So, let me start by saying: Your opinions, are just that opinions, not facts. I say this because you seem to want to be some official on the topic of PvP and the psychology of the players that participate in it. You have proven, better than I ever could have that you are in fact, ill-informed on the topic at best.
Ok, now we have cleared that up, can you present one fact to back up your claim that MOBAS (we will stick with this as you brought it up as ridiculous as it is) are rife with cheats/hacks/aimbots? I know we hear it all the time from the...ahem...less skilled players. So and so must be cheating because I can't beat them. It is usually crap and a lack of understanding the game more so than anything else.
On a side note, most of the teams that go to these million dollars plus tournaments are sponsored, they are not throwing their own money in the hat to play. We are not talking about some back alley craps game. Seriously, at least know what you are talking about before you try to post a thought on it.
Shooters are the same. I know for a fact bots/cheating/hacks happen, I have seen it, a few, very few legitimate times in game, but I know it does happen, I also know it is not nearly as rampant as people want to believe in most games. There are games out there that are a hackers paradise, but most people know what they are and avoid them. Hint, none of them are triple A MOBAS or shooters.
You want to talk about the psychology of PvP gamers, ok, well I disagree with all of your point pertaining to PvP players and I feel that the majority of PvE gamers that play PvP games just want to be drama queens, and create unnecessary drama with excuses like: well the rest of the game is good, just the PvP makes me cry. It's only because it is so gear relient...etc etc. Just pick your favorite excuse and insert it. So I believe that PvE gamers have a perpetual victim mentality and they need the PvPers around to give them a reason to be victims, so they are in their comfort zone.
As a side note, anyone with any sense probably realizes I am being purposefully obtuse and speaking in gross generalizations, simply to make a point.
Ok, I think you have had enough. I most likely should not have even responded to this ridiculous post, as it is so...bass akwards as to be laughable, but here we go, I am waiting to be dazzled.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If PvP players only want to gank (what you said I just used the common word for it) then explain how MMO FPS games, Arena shooters, arena stabbers, MOBAS, and MMORPG arena's still existing? Why would developers continue to develop and maintain these systems if they don't work?
I'll foot this question.
I see you have not heard of Aim-Bots and other cheat programs. If you have played any MOBA's you will see that they are riddled with people that use these programs. They use these programs to feel powerful, to take advantage of players that want an honest game.
Answer me this, if the people who wanted to play a PvP game did it for the love of the game, why would they make and download hack programs?
Truth is, the same people that want to farm PvE players are the same people that will heat against honest PvP players.
As for e-Sports. Much like how PvE is the selling point of most MMO's, fair games are the selling point of MOBA's to the point where honest PvP players, have gotten so fed up with cheaters that they became willing to put down money just to shut them down.
There are a lot of people who enjoy a game as a game and want to play a game as intended, but often those people that enjoy the aspect of PvP, want it to be not only fair, but also consensual, neither is the case in Open-World-PvP MMO's.
Which tells us all we need to know about the people that want Open-World-PvP.
WoW...you should have left this one alone. Seriously.
1st of all, yes I have heard of cheat programs, I have been gaming since EQ and I started shooters when HALO came out and I generally stay abreast of what is going on with all the genres of games.
So, let me start by saying: Your opinions, are just that opinions, not facts. I say this because you seem to want to be some official on the topic of PvP and the psychology of the players that participate in it. You have proven, better than I ever could have that you are in fact, ill-informed on the topic at best.
Ok, now we have cleared that up, can you present one fact to back up your claim that MOBAS (we will stick with this as you brought it up as ridiculous as it is) are rife with cheats/hacks/aimbots? I know we hear it all the time from the...ahem...less skilled players. So and so must be cheating because I can't beat them. It is usually crap and a lack of understanding the game more so than anything else.
On a side note, most of the teams that go to these million dollars plus tournaments are sponsored, they are not throwing their own money in the hat to play. We are not talking about some back alley craps game. Seriously, at least know what you are talking about before you try to post a thought on it.
Shooters are the same. I know for a fact bots/cheating/hacks happen, I have seen it, a few, very few legitimate times in game, but I know it does happen, I also know it is not nearly as rampant as people want to believe in most games. There are games out there that are a hackers paradise, but most people know what they are and avoid them. Hint, none of them are triple A MOBAS or shooters.
You want to talk about the psychology of PvP gamers, ok, well I disagree with all of your point pertaining to PvP players and I feel that the majority of PvE gamers that play PvP games just want to be drama queens, and create unnecessary drama with excuses like: well the rest of the game is good, just the PvP makes me cry. It's only because it is so gear relient...etc etc. Just pick your favorite excuse and insert it. So I believe that PvE gamers have a perpetual victim mentality and they need the PvPers around to give them a reason to be victims, so they are in their comfort zone.
As a side note, anyone with any sense probably realizes I am being purposefully obtuse and speaking in gross generalizations, simply to make a point.
Ok, I think you have had enough. I most likely should not have even responded to this ridiculous post, as it is so...bass akwards as to be laughable, but here we go, I am waiting to be dazzled.
Laughable!
How do I know that Aim-Bots and Hack programs are a bit rampant, well, One of the MOBA I play, WH40KEC, just put up announcements that they have been logging cheaters, and have put in trackers for their cheat programs.
It was amazing how fast so many people started to suck all of a sudden. LOL. Teams that often were known for their dead on accuracy were missing a lot more then they used to, it was rather funny, to see teams that often never lost, get destroyed game after game, after game.
This as good moment to have this discussion, because they just put up the Announcement Today! And suddenly, the whole environment of the game changed, Imagine that.
But that aside, See, cheating and telling when people are cheating is not about them being better then me, in fact most average players are very used to dying in MOBA's, and since for any casual like myself, we often just play for the giggles of them, a pointless past time, like a hobby you don't care too much about, only the crybabies and whiners that think they are great think and invest themselves too much into the game, believe that people have to cheat to beat them, or use cheating as an excuse for their losses.
An average player like myself , we spot cheaters by how well they function in relation to everyone else we have fought, it's pretty easy to spot most of the times, they are just a little better then everyone else. The dead give away is that they just never seem to miss, at all, where everyone else you faced missed a few times at least. Even if they win, they made mistakes on their targeting, or you could surprise them from time to time, vs people that seemed to know exactly where you were, no matter what. Winning and Losing in an MOBA is often a small matter to a casual, and since we get exp, loot, and other goodies anyway, me.. playing for the fun of it, at least such is the case in WH40KEC, and given I play Ork, dying to me is just part of the game. Hell, we even role play while doing this crap.
But hey, don't let real world events get in the way of your delusion here. I am sure it's not as many as some people think, but, it's a large enough problem that it is a direct problem that is plagueing the games as it were. Which still supports my points.
lets move on.. how do you think E-Sports started? Do you think it popped up one day as big as it is? Oh no, you must know better then that, after all you have been around a while, you know it started with the Lan-Parties, and people would check your computer for hacks, and then everyone would pay in, or loser buys pizza. And from there it evolved. So yah.. even back in the day, there were cheat programs, cheaters, and the people that were willing to put down their own money to school them.
But why let that get in the way your feels.
Moving on to PvE players.
Well, most PvE players don't and won't play PvP games, or, in cases like WoW, don't play on PvP servers.
So, anyway, thanks for showing you have less a grasp then I do in regards to games, I guess.
The few that do, often do it just to see what it is like and what the attraction is. I mean, the way people fuss about loving PvP, you would think it was fun or something.
The few that do, often do it just to see what it is like and what the attraction is. I mean, the way people fuss about loving PvP, you would think it was fun or something.
Few? I disagree. General chat is flooded with these idiots. REEEEEEEEE
The few that do, often do it just to see what it is like and what the attraction is. I mean, the way people fuss about loving PvP, you would think it was fun or something.
Few? I disagree. General chat is flooded with these idiots. REEEEEEEEE
Which game? The only game I played where the PvE carebears cried en-mas about PvP was GW2, because they were forced to do it to get their Legendary Weapons.
The few that do, often do it just to see what it is like and what the attraction is. I mean, the way people fuss about loving PvP, you would think it was fun or something.
Few? I disagree. General chat is flooded with these idiots. REEEEEEEEE
Which game? The only game I played where the PvE carebears cried en-mas about PvP was GW2, because they were forced to do it to get their Legendary Weapons.
Happened a bit in Rift too. Same reason you had to regularly participate in 'conquest' (three faction PvP) to get and keep your 'conquest perks' (PvE damage boost etc) there was also a BIS item or two to get that way.
Comments
I did PvP a lot in the old MySpace games (mostly text-based with some still images) called Heroes, Mobsters, Outworld, and Bloodlines, but those weren't really mmorpgs. Not in the sense we usually think about them anyway. But if you want to call them that, I suppose I did grief/gank in those games. To be totally honest. But those games were pretty much all about free-for-all griefing and ganking. You could not only fight, rob and kill people, you could also post bounties and collect bounties.
I'm won't be catering to anyone. I'm trying to make the game I want to play. One that I'm pretty sure others will want to play as well. But if some people don't, no skin off my back. There will always be games like Pokemon, Candy Crush, World of Warcraft, and Final Fantasy XXXXXXXX-infinity-X. Maybe and/or hopefully depending on your tastes and point-of-view. As long as our current civilizations last anyway. And people still have desire, time, energy, and resources available to play games.
There are and will be plenty of pve focused games as well. Enjoy those.
I agree that PvP isn't going away, and I'm not asking for it to. The only thing I'm really asking for is a separation of the two or at least game mechanics that prevent non-consensual PvP. Like I said earlier, my thread title was sub-optimal, it should have read "The time for non-consensual PvP has come and gone".
Is there a way to edit a thread title?
Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
1. Where do you get the "majority' of players do not want non-consensual PvP?
2. In my heart of hearts I wish to test myself against other players, I seldom attack less geared/experienced players and if I do so, I leave them be after that. My question to you is: How can you justify speaking for essentially everyone that plays video games with these statements? DO you have one fact you can present?
3. Arche age. ok so get off your wagon, kill them and then ram the wagon out of the way. It is, after all, a PvP game so do PvP. Or don't play PvP games, as has been pointed out too many times to count. Also, Arche age is a game with a player driven economy, if they keep you from making trades, they are doing it right and well within the rule set of that game.
Your last statement, again you want to speak for the entire genre with these broad generalizations? Can you prove exactly what I am feeling when I fight someone in a game?
How about irl? How do I feel irl when I am at the gym rolling with other students? How do I feel then? You don't know, you have no way of saying 100% Well Hatefull you feel like ________. You can't know as you do not know me, nor do you know me in a game. Wild conjecture.
I think you have a lot of learning to do, right now you are trying to defend your very weak points with wild conjecture and non-sensical statements. You are not a dumb person, that is obvious, I just think you need to better support your points with fact and solid opinions based on fact.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
And because of that we get thread after thread talking about how to make it better.
Well the answer has been known for a long time. For those that don't PvP it is either a different game or consentual PvP.
For some reason devs keep ignoring the consentual part so the pve players keep choosing not to do their game.
Yes, you can edit a thread title. You should see a gear symbol on the thread list page near the title, or you can do it on the first page of your thread by clicking on a similar gear symbol.
The merge of PvE with PvP on an MMO that is quite challenging to please both play styles, on that aspect I think there's many people actively wanting something that would do it right.
That's true. No one has to play or participate in any game they don't like. No one has to play games period. There are a lot of other things to do in life. Me, I want to play a good, fair and competitive pvp mmorpg, but I don't think there are any. Except for EVE, and I'm not a big fan of space warfare.
Because the game is otherwise very appealing. ArcheAge and Black Desert are both triple-A MMOs with with rich content for crop and animal farming, economic trading, and crafting. Even Albion Online gets a lot of players who simply like the crop and animal farming aspects of the game, supplemented by dungeons and Expeditions. The question isn't why PvE'ers want to play these games, the question *should* be, "Why do PvP players feel it necessary to be able to kill people who don't want to PvP?"
Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Thank you!
Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
I'll foot this question.
I see you have not heard of Aim-Bots and other cheat programs. If you have played any MOBA's you will see that they are riddled with people that use these programs. They use these programs to feel powerful, to take advantage of players that want an honest game.
Answer me this, if the people who wanted to play a PvP game did it for the love of the game, why would they make and download hack programs?
Truth is, the same people that want to farm PvE players are the same people that will heat against honest PvP players.
As for e-Sports. Much like how PvE is the selling point of most MMO's, fair games are the selling point of MOBA's to the point where honest PvP players, have gotten so fed up with cheaters that they became willing to put down money just to shut them down.
There are a lot of people who enjoy a game as a game and want to play a game as intended, but often those people that enjoy the aspect of PvP, want it to be not only fair, but also consensual, neither is the case in Open-World-PvP MMO's.
Which tells us all we need to know about the people that want Open-World-PvP.
I get the feels that Albion Online is gonna tank hard because of that. Too many people are simply gonna opt to play something else.
1st of all, yes I have heard of cheat programs, I have been gaming since EQ and I started shooters when HALO came out and I generally stay abreast of what is going on with all the genres of games.
So, let me start by saying: Your opinions, are just that opinions, not facts. I say this because you seem to want to be some official on the topic of PvP and the psychology of the players that participate in it. You have proven, better than I ever could have that you are in fact, ill-informed on the topic at best.
Ok, now we have cleared that up, can you present one fact to back up your claim that MOBAS (we will stick with this as you brought it up as ridiculous as it is) are rife with cheats/hacks/aimbots? I know we hear it all the time from the...ahem...less skilled players. So and so must be cheating because I can't beat them. It is usually crap and a lack of understanding the game more so than anything else.
On a side note, most of the teams that go to these million dollars plus tournaments are sponsored, they are not throwing their own money in the hat to play. We are not talking about some back alley craps game. Seriously, at least know what you are talking about before you try to post a thought on it.
Shooters are the same. I know for a fact bots/cheating/hacks happen, I have seen it, a few, very few legitimate times in game, but I know it does happen, I also know it is not nearly as rampant as people want to believe in most games. There are games out there that are a hackers paradise, but most people know what they are and avoid them. Hint, none of them are triple A MOBAS or shooters.
You want to talk about the psychology of PvP gamers, ok, well I disagree with all of your point pertaining to PvP players and I feel that the majority of PvE gamers that play PvP games just want to be drama queens, and create unnecessary drama with excuses like: well the rest of the game is good, just the PvP makes me cry. It's only because it is so gear relient...etc etc. Just pick your favorite excuse and insert it. So I believe that PvE gamers have a perpetual victim mentality and they need the PvPers around to give them a reason to be victims, so they are in their comfort zone.
As a side note, anyone with any sense probably realizes I am being purposefully obtuse and speaking in gross generalizations, simply to make a point.
Ok, I think you have had enough. I most likely should not have even responded to this ridiculous post, as it is so...bass akwards as to be laughable, but here we go, I am waiting to be dazzled.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Laughable!
How do I know that Aim-Bots and Hack programs are a bit rampant, well, One of the MOBA I play, WH40KEC, just put up announcements that they have been logging cheaters, and have put in trackers for their cheat programs.
It was amazing how fast so many people started to suck all of a sudden. LOL. Teams that often were known for their dead on accuracy were missing a lot more then they used to, it was rather funny, to see teams that often never lost, get destroyed game after game, after game.
This as good moment to have this discussion, because they just put up the Announcement Today! And suddenly, the whole environment of the game changed, Imagine that.
But that aside, See, cheating and telling when people are cheating is not about them being better then me, in fact most average players are very used to dying in MOBA's, and since for any casual like myself, we often just play for the giggles of them, a pointless past time, like a hobby you don't care too much about, only the crybabies and whiners that think they are great think and invest themselves too much into the game, believe that people have to cheat to beat them, or use cheating as an excuse for their losses.
An average player like myself , we spot cheaters by how well they function in relation to everyone else we have fought, it's pretty easy to spot most of the times, they are just a little better then everyone else. The dead give away is that they just never seem to miss, at all, where everyone else you faced missed a few times at least. Even if they win, they made mistakes on their targeting, or you could surprise them from time to time, vs people that seemed to know exactly where you were, no matter what. Winning and Losing in an MOBA is often a small matter to a casual, and since we get exp, loot, and other goodies anyway, me.. playing for the fun of it, at least such is the case in WH40KEC, and given I play Ork, dying to me is just part of the game. Hell, we even role play while doing this crap.
But hey, don't let real world events get in the way of your delusion here. I am sure it's not as many as some people think, but, it's a large enough problem that it is a direct problem that is plagueing the games as it were. Which still supports my points.
lets move on.. how do you think E-Sports started? Do you think it popped up one day as big as it is? Oh no, you must know better then that, after all you have been around a while, you know it started with the Lan-Parties, and people would check your computer for hacks, and then everyone would pay in, or loser buys pizza. And from there it evolved. So yah.. even back in the day, there were cheat programs, cheaters, and the people that were willing to put down their own money to school them.
But why let that get in the way your feels.
Moving on to PvE players.
Well, most PvE players don't and won't play PvP games, or, in cases like WoW, don't play on PvP servers.
So, anyway, thanks for showing you have less a grasp then I do in regards to games, I guess.
The few that do, often do it just to see what it is like and what the attraction is. I mean, the way people fuss about loving PvP, you would think it was fun or something.
Few? I disagree. General chat is flooded with these idiots. REEEEEEEEE
Which game? The only game I played where the PvE carebears cried en-mas about PvP was GW2, because they were forced to do it to get their Legendary Weapons.
Happened a bit in Rift too. Same reason you had to regularly participate in 'conquest' (three faction PvP) to get and keep your 'conquest perks' (PvE damage boost etc) there was also a BIS item or two to get that way.