@PottedPlant22, If you don't trust the company's management / employees, then by all means don't back the project.
Personally, I couldn't even tell you the name of the CFO (or even if they had one) when I backed other MMO Kickstarters (Pantheon, Crowfall, CoE). The fact that Intrepid Studios even has their business management thought out at this stage, gives me more confidence, not less...
LOl and you have yet to present a legitimate business concern, nor one fact to back up any of your claims. Your very specific and valid concerns are specific I give you that, but founded in YOUR OPINION based on what is obviously a distinct lack of any type of business knowledge. In short, you are too ignorant to discuss this topic. So stop, as I said before you only succeed in embarrassing yourself.
I own my own business in the International Security field, I also do consulting and training. I have in the recent past and will in the future high people just out of school to help me run my business, and to date, I have seen some real good success with that.
Also, fawning? Seriously? Showing respect to one of the most respected business leaders on the planet is not fawning it is, however, being an intelligent, secure, well-adjusted, and mature person.
At any rate, I do need to get to work, so we are done here. As a side note, if you look into your local community college for the introduction to business courses, you may be able to, in the future have an actual discussion on these topics, without ahem, being embarrassed.
Good day, we are done here.
Yeah god forbid I have an opinion on a gaming forum.
And there it is, roll out the resume to bring in more red herrings that in no way relate to the concerns about this project. I am doing just fine btw, no need for me to follow in your Alma-matar footsteps.
Again, I'd have to disagree with you on what CFOs need. Granted, they might be from the finance field, that isn't a requirement.
Having a Business Management degree of some sort should certainly be a requirement for a CFO.
Saying that a CFO shouldn't be required to have any experience in the financial field is crazy.
Here's bullet points of responsibilities -
Accomplishes finance human resource strategies by determining accountabilities; communicating and enforcing values, policies, and procedures; implementing recruitment, selection, orientation, training, coaching, counseling, disciplinary, and communication programs; planning, monitoring, appraising, and reviewing job contributions; planning and reviewing compensation strategies.
Develops finance organizational strategies by contributing financial and accounting information, analysis, and recommendations to strategic thinking and direction; establishing functional objectives in line with organizational objectives.
Develops organization prospects by studying economic trends and revenue opportunities; projecting acquisition and expansion prospects; analyzing organization operations; identifying opportunities for improvement, cost reduction, and systems enhancement; accumulating capital to fund expansion.
Develops financial strategies by forecasting capital, facilities, and staff requirements; identifying monetary resources; developing action plans.
Monitors financial performance by measuring and analyzing results; initiating corrective actions; minimizing the impact of variances.
Maximizes return on invested funds by identifying investment opportunities; maintaining relationships with the investment community.
Reports financial status by developing forecasts; reporting results; analyzing variances; developing improvements.
Updates job knowledge by remaining aware of new regulations; participating in educational opportunities; reading professional publications; maintaining personal networks; participating in professional organizations.
Accomplishes finance and organization mission by completing related results as needed.
Chief Financial Officer Skills and Qualifications:
Financial Planning and Strategy, Managing Profitability, Strategic Planning, Vision, Quality Management, Promoting Process Improvement, Forecasting, Corporate Finance, Developing Budgets, Financial Skills, Dealing with Complexity
I mean on some of this stuff you can't argue. These are facts. Fact is a CFO needs/should be required to have some financial background. I mean the name is Chief FINANCIAL Officer. Are there other requirements in addition? Yes. That's why you normally see experienced people with business management experience in these roles. At the very least they usually have a MBA in lieu of real work experience.
Yup, an MBA is mentioned quite frequently. As far as experience goes, I've seen a few different flavors and some don't even mention anything financial. I've seen multiple posts for "8-10 years Senior Management Experience".
All I'm saying is that you don't need a history in finance in order to be a CFO. Also, in the case of this company, the CFO is more likely the purse strings and bookkeeper. This isn't a public company, they don't have shareholders, they don't work with a myriad of vendors. So the CFO is pretty much a label. So is the CEO for that matter.
Would it offend you if I named myself the CFO of my own company? Or named my wife the CFO of my company? Yes! If you are applying to Google to be their CFO you might want some financial experience. However, there's also a storied history of CEOs being hired on as CFOs or CTOs or other C type positions. It's not that they, necessarily, have the experience gained by rising through the ranks of that discipline, but that they have experience managing at that level. THAT skill is what's most important. Go take a look at the skills list I linked above.
Did you even read what you posted? How much of those responsibilities are actually happening within a small group of 10-20 people? It's effectively zero. This whole job description boils down to an over-complicated mess. It's effectively, they oversee the finances of the company and ensure that there is accountability within the organization with regards to their spending and that they are aligned with their forecasts and then reports on how they are trending in relation to those forecasts. Oh! And they take some training courses throughout the year.
Again, I'll acknowledge that if you were applying to a global organization who REQUIRED a CFO then finance skills would definitely be an asset, but we're talking about what amounts to a family business here. In reality it doesn't even necessitate a CFO. Essentially that CFO is a bookkeeper, and someone could take a weekend course for that.
LOl and you have yet to present a legitimate business concern, nor one fact to back up any of your claims. Your very specific and valid concerns are specific I give you that, but founded in YOUR OPINION based on what is obviously a distinct lack of any type of business knowledge. In short, you are too ignorant to discuss this topic. So stop, as I said before you only succeed in embarrassing yourself.
I own my own business in the International Security field, I also do consulting and training. I have in the recent past and will in the future high people just out of school to help me run my business, and to date, I have seen some real good success with that.
Also, fawning? Seriously? Showing respect to one of the most respected business leaders on the planet is not fawning it is, however, being an intelligent, secure, well-adjusted, and mature person.
At any rate, I do need to get to work, so we are done here. As a side note, if you look into your local community college for the introduction to business courses, you may be able to, in the future have an actual discussion on these topics, without ahem, being embarrassed.
Good day, we are done here.
Yeah god forbid I have an opinion on a gaming forum.
And there it is, roll out the resume to bring in more red herrings that in no way relate to the concerns about this project. I am doing just fine btw, no need for me to follow in your Alma-matar footsteps.
You offered me a business opportunity, I refused it stating I am already in business, sorry if that offended you, no reason to be defensive. Some community colleges offer really good programs. I went to a bit more recognized institution, but I do not look down on anyone that is trying to better themselves. However, those that are content to languish in ignorance, I tend to take shots at.
Opinions are fine, but you are trying to create a discussion based on no facts, and lack of knowledge of the topic. Ok, so in your opinion, they made a staffing mistake and that will cause the game to suck/fail/never be complete. Got it, noted. I disagree, I think they are making sound business decisions and the game has a chance at being made barring some other influence ie the CFO dying.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I can't believe this needs to be spelled out but hiring your husband who is a new liberal arts grad with zero experience does not inspire confidence in management ability and competence.
Its gives the impression that they are running a Mickey Mouse operation, not a company that is promising the near impossible - revolutionize the genre in under 2 years with a small budget.
I can't believe this needs to be spelled out but hiring your husband who is a new liberal arts grad with zero experience does not inspire confidence in management ability and competence.
Its gives the impression that they are running a Mickey Mouse operation, not a company that is promising the near impossible - revolutionize the genre in under 2 years with a small budget.
I'm sort of in the same place. I'm a little different, though. Call me foolish, but I'd back the one that shows actual video footage. Oh! Also, it gives me warm and fuzzies when there is also pre-alpha footage of the game already. That's just me, though. Maybe you're a big fan of corporate management teams. Personally, I have never paid very close attention to that sort of thing.
Watch the two videos below and you tell me what you'd be more likely to back.
Of all the upcoming indie, edgy, or crowdfunded mmos I think CU is the most likely to launch successfully with its original vision more or less intact. Of this lot, if one lasts 10 years I think it will be CU.
That said, I decided to back this game. I'm not one to back mmos mostly because I know how things change as they cook and I've been a bit burnt out on that. Preference is a weird thing though and if I can get a year of dinking around in the game plus pre-launch time for my pledge then I'll be happy.
I like to do this stuff as a hobby - play, test, support artistic development. So if I can do that for a reasonable contribution (my cap is about $150) then I get personally interested. I like projects that are interested in common gamer feedback and not just the rich and elite.
I don't disagree with anything you are saying. The point I'm trying to make is simply that if you had these two KS introduction videos against each other today, I'd probably feel more confident in backing Ashes because they actually show in-game footage and gameplay. I mean it's always possible that sort of thing is smoke and mirrors, but I've said from the beginning that MJ got lucky. John Romero made 2 tech-light KS campaigns and failed on both. Brad McQuaid made one tech-light KS campaign and failed. As far as technology goes, these guys give, probably, one of the most complete tech intros that I've seen, rivaling maybe Dual Universe.
It just shows the power of marketing and why MLM is so successful.
Industry vets like Marc Jacobs and J Todd get called lairs and scammers, meanwhile a completely unknown guy with no experience comes in with a history of MLM scamming and a flashy video and people are saying "give him a chance!" "He means well!" "Hes a business guy and therefore the right man!"
It just shows the power of marketing and why MLM is so successful.
Industry vets like Marc Jacobs and J Todd get called lairs and scammers, meanwhile a completely unknown guy with no experience comes in with a history of MLM scamming and a flashy video and people are saying "give him a chance!" "He means well!" "Hes a business guy and therefore the right man!"
Is that what you've sold yourself? Nobody here called MJ or J Todd scammers, did they?
I think you're projecting a little bit here. What I asked is which pitch video appears to have a greater chance of being made? Then you got all bent out of shape because I'm right. However, you admittedly backed CU, which is totally fine, but you categorically did NOT back CU based on the content in their video, you backed it based on hopes and dreams because below is the height of their KS tech videos. So, that's cool, you love MJ and J Todd, that's cool. They've done a lot of great things. Don't sit there and act like they sold you on something more than a vision, though.
It just shows the power of marketing and why MLM is so successful.
Industry vets like Marc Jacobs and J Todd get called lairs and scammers, meanwhile a completely unknown guy with no experience comes in with a history of MLM scamming and a flashy video and people are saying "give him a chance!" "He means well!" "Hes a business guy and therefore the right man!"
There are plenty of industry vets on the team, you can look at their resumes to see that. So are you going to make a legit point...ever? You have nothing but conspiracy theory and quite frankly, BS. Oh yes and a heaping dose oh: Nuh-uh.
To be quite clear, I am not arguing against Marc or Todd, I am just saying, you say they have experience, so does the Ashes team, or does only the people YOU like have experience that counts?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
The team has SOE experience but only 1 or 2 are developers. The rest are game designers and artists.
Lots of ideas and promises, not much tech to back it up.
You're the business dude right? How likely is it for a company with 750k + A sugar daddy and 2 programmers to revolutionize a multi-billion dollar industry in under 2 years?
The team has SOE experience but only 1 or 2 are developers. The rest are game designers and artists.
Lots of ideas and promises, not much tech to back it up.
You're the business dude right? How likely is it for a company with 750k + A sugar daddy and 2 programmers to revolutionize a multi-billion dollar industry in under 2 years?
Here let me help you:
Jacobin: Yes, there is plenty of experience on the team, would you like to predict their chance of success on being able to deliver their promise?
Hatefull: Well, no, I will not make a prediction, but I will say based on the fact that they have hired the right people to do the right jobs and the fact that they have a playable alpha already and certain financial backing, along with a successful Kickstarter, they have at least a much of a chance at delivering a game as any small game studio out there right now. Will they change the industry? I have no way of knowing that.
Jacobin: Wel you make some good points, but I still disagree with you, I feel they made a big mistake in hiring a friend and an un-tested CFO, nor do I find their backing reliable.
Hatefull: Well I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.
Jacobin: Indeed we will.
The end.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
The team has SOE experience but only 1 or 2 are developers. The rest are game designers and artists.
Lots of ideas and promises, not much tech to back it up.
You're the business dude right? How likely is it for a company with 750k + A sugar daddy and 2 programmers to revolutionize a multi-billion dollar industry in under 2 years?
I don't know, Crowfall was seeking $800k, yet it's in pre-alpha!!! I know this because I just got an email on it. All that on JUST the money they made in their KS ;P
PS: Do you REALLY think that it's likely that $750k is the budget for this game?
Also, revolutionary doesn't mean that it will be successful. Ask Betamax and HD DVD. In fact, it's highly unlikely that they will even take 5% of the market. We're talking about someone that is unproven. Games like CU, Pantheon, CoE, Ashes, Albion Online, Shards Online are all seeking to prove that this "market" even exists outside of the bubble of the Internet. Nobody even knows if it's sustainable or how large it is.
Is that what you've sold yourself? Nobody here called MJ or J Todd scammers, did they?
I think you're projecting a little bit here. What I asked is which pitch video appears to have a greater chance of being made? Then you got all bent out of shape because I'm right. However, you admittedly backed CU, which is totally fine, but you categorically did NOT back CU based on the content in their video, you backed it based on hopes and dreams because below is the height of their KS tech videos. So, that's cool, you love MJ and J Todd, that's cool. They've done a lot of great things. Don't sit there and act like they sold you on something more than a vision, though.
Yes I backed 2 games 4 years ago which is why I am now very cynical. KS was a new thing back then and people didn't really know what to expect but both games were from day 1 were going for a niche market.
What tiggers me now is that we have a full blown, bona fide scam artist with zero experience making even larger promises with less money and talent and people are lapping it up.
Is that what you've sold yourself? Nobody here called MJ or J Todd scammers, did they?
I think you're projecting a little bit here. What I asked is which pitch video appears to have a greater chance of being made? Then you got all bent out of shape because I'm right. However, you admittedly backed CU, which is totally fine, but you categorically did NOT back CU based on the content in their video, you backed it based on hopes and dreams because below is the height of their KS tech videos. So, that's cool, you love MJ and J Todd, that's cool. They've done a lot of great things. Don't sit there and act like they sold you on something more than a vision, though.
Yes I backed 2 games 4 years ago which is why I am now very cynical. KS was a new thing back then and people didn't really know what to expect but both games were from day 1 were going for a niche market.
What tiggers me now is that we have a full blown, bona fide scam artist with zero experience making even larger promises with less money and talent and people are lapping it up.
Yup! And both games are approaching the release phases of their game. I'd say that you probably made good bets. Could be worse, I put my money into The Repopulation. That didn't work out as well. I also put money into SC, which has been continual drama.
Now is this guy a scam artist? Meh... He's selling nutritional supplements. The reality about nutritional supplements is that there is no studies proving that any of them work. You know how when you have lots of vitamins your pee changes color and smells funny? Yeah, that's cuz your body doesn't need it. In fact, there are no scientific studies which prove the legitimacy of nutritional supplements. So it's a whole multi-billion dollar industry that's based on lies. Sooooooo am I going to demonize someone for selling something and making claims that aren't scientifically supported? Nope! Not if dumb people buy it. That's not a scam artist, though.
Also, we don't know how much money he's invested, so it could actually be more money. He is selling in a multi-billion dollar industry, right?
Also, we can't really comment on talent. That's a pretty subjective thing. Tell me about how the Crowfall and City State teams are "more talented". It's pretty difficult to do.
Anyway, yeah, I get it. You're not a fan of the game. I'm not even sure I'm going to back it at this point myself based on my own experience. However, that has nothing to do with their team. Their team seems completely competent and able to make a game.
Their team seems completely competent and able to make a game.
This is another misconception.
SOE had been a terrible company that was bleeding money for quite a while which is why it crashed and burned.
You can blame Smedley or management but I wouldnt look to the people behind EQnext, Landmark and Planetside 2 for the next under 2 year low budget game that will revolutionize the genre.
Ok; But none addressed his worries about past ties to MLM.
Is being tied to MLM something to be worried about?
It seems like everyone on the internet more or less takes it for granted that MLM is evil. I guess a majority of people work in flat organizations?
As long as you have an actual product on your hands, I don't get why it's demonized any more than a brick and mortar franchise. You have levels of executives profiting off of the work of many there also, not to mention additional overhead for retail space.
I never said a thing about the product itself. I'm talking about the project and it's development. If you don't think MLM schemes are a problem I won't be the one to drawn it out for you - - because I live where I live and I know what I know. This is not the matter of the subject even if I would gladly tell you about it. I also don't think it has any impact whatsoever on the game itself. I never said anything on that regards.
I actually like a lot the team behind it... Just some actions worries me - - as I pointed it out.
The same way some actions from Chris Robert worries people following Star Citizen development even if they don't reflect the skills of a 3d modeler to make a ship or animate a character.
They guy made his money from MLM. He is now using that money to make a game. I don't think they are using sketch artists though.
As much as I dislike MLM companies it's hard to say this game is a MLM scheme. Yes they have a referral program. No it's not an MLM scheme.
Question the veracity of the designers all you want. There past work speaks for itself. Either you like it or you don't.
Full disclosuer: I'm not backing the game on KickStarter. But then again most people that know me could have probably guessed that already.
This game is not MLM, they can't risk that or some huge problems would happen in the future.
This also his reaction to someone asking about animations on stream worries me a little.
What was his reaction?
He went really passive-aggressive towards the question. That kind of behavior is a red flag for me. For me. This is my opinion and my impression abouthim - not the game. Since there is little to discuss about the game at this time (besides concepts).
I watched the stream live and did not have that reaction. It came across as just another developer trying to be friendly while answering a question and reassuring people that animations will continue to be polished as the game progresses. He understood, as I did, that the question came out of concern and he was trying to alleviate those concerns. I don't remember feeling like any of his reactions were odd when I watched the stream.
This is coming from someone who hasn't given any money to the game and while I hope it does well, I'll be totally fine if it doesn't. Like most games I'm watching, I'm merely a hopeful observer with no skin in the game. I criticize games I am hoping do well as much as I try to support them, so I think I have a fairly neutral view. And so with that, I didn't see anything weird with the stream. But you already think very negatively of him and have an agenda to make him fail, so your interpretation of it is questionable at best.
Their team seems completely competent and able to make a game.
This is another misconception.
SOE had been a terrible company that was bleeding money for quite a while which is why it crashed and burned.
You can blame Smedley or management but I wouldnt look to the people behind EQnext, Landmark and Planetside 2 for the next under 2 year low budget game that will revolutionize the genre.
Yes, they were in fact, bleeding money as SOE, and that is why a large portion of that studio split and became Daybreak. This, in my opinion, was the result of too much management and not enough creative freedom. Again, just my opinion. Well, I also feel that Smedly is a terrible leader in every way, I would not put him in charge of melting ice in death valley for fear her would screw it up. But this is all just my opinion, not based on anything but what I have read/seen from him.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
How you can equate a guy with zero industry experience and a fresh college grad who are spouting off buzz word after buzz with few concrete details as 'smart' business and 'strong' leadership is a pretty amazing feat of mental gymnastics. You would think a consultant of all people would be able see past the marketing haze.
A lot of dirt is coming out on Reddit.
Edit: The fresh college grad CFO is married to the billionaire MLM creative director who is financing this.
You don't become a self made multi millionare who has enough "Fuck you money" to fund his own dream MMO by the age of 31 by being a dumbass with good luck. No such thing exists. You do that by making smart business decisions and having the drive to self motivate and work hard - in his case over a variety of industries for over 15 years.
This is like the people who say our billionaire President is a dumbo too. You don't have to like either of them or what they're doing, but simple logic dictates both of them know what they're doing - even if you don't personally understand it yourself.
Their team seems completely competent and able to make a game.
This is another misconception.
SOE had been a terrible company that was bleeding money for quite a while which is why it crashed and burned.
You can blame Smedley or management but I wouldnt look to the people behind EQnext, Landmark and Planetside 2 for the next under 2 year low budget game that will revolutionize the genre.
Well now, I don't know about revolutionizing the genre (too many players are looking for that and I don't think that's something someone can just "plan") but I think you are correct in blaming former Sony Entertainment management.
management is responsible for budgets, hiring the right people to manage their projects, etc.
If you are saying that the people who are in charge of this new company are the same managers then you have a point. But if they aren't the people who called the shots at Sony Entertainment then it's an unknown quantity.
So "yeah" their team does seem competent and able to make a game. If the people who were in charge of budgets, making final decisions at Sony are these very same people then your point stands. Otherwise this might as well be a brand new start to a brand new company.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You don't become a self made multi millionare who has enough "Fuck you money" to fund his own dream MMO by the age of 31 by being a dumbass with good luck. No such thing exists. You do that by making smart business decisions and having the drive to self motivate and work hard - in his case over a variety of industries for over 15 years.
Or you be the son of the person supplying the products to the pyramid scheme.
He was very good at convincing people that they would become rich by selling overpriced juice, vitamins and other garbage to friends and family.
If the guy is such a genius and self funding a dream game, why is he asking for KS donations?
You don't become a self made multi millionare who has enough "Fuck you money" to fund his own dream MMO by the age of 31 by being a dumbass with good luck. No such thing exists. You do that by making smart business decisions and having the drive to self motivate and work hard - in his case over a variety of industries for over 15 years.
Or you be the son of the person supplying the products to the pyramid scheme.
He was very good at convincing people that they would become rich by selling overpriced juice, vitamins and other garbage to friends and family.
If the guy is such a genius and self funding a dream game, why is he asking for KS donations?
Because you don't get rich by putting all of your money into the toys you'd like to see made?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Personally, I couldn't even tell you the name of the CFO (or even if they had one) when I backed other MMO Kickstarters (Pantheon, Crowfall, CoE). The fact that Intrepid Studios even has their business management thought out at this stage, gives me more confidence, not less...
Yeah god forbid I have an opinion on a gaming forum.
And there it is, roll out the resume to bring in more red herrings that in no way relate to the concerns about this project. I am doing just fine btw, no need for me to follow in your Alma-matar footsteps.
Yup, an MBA is mentioned quite frequently. As far as experience goes, I've seen a few different flavors and some don't even mention anything financial. I've seen multiple posts for "8-10 years Senior Management Experience".
All I'm saying is that you don't need a history in finance in order to be a CFO. Also, in the case of this company, the CFO is more likely the purse strings and bookkeeper. This isn't a public company, they don't have shareholders, they don't work with a myriad of vendors. So the CFO is pretty much a label. So is the CEO for that matter.
Would it offend you if I named myself the CFO of my own company? Or named my wife the CFO of my company? Yes! If you are applying to Google to be their CFO you might want some financial experience. However, there's also a storied history of CEOs being hired on as CFOs or CTOs or other C type positions. It's not that they, necessarily, have the experience gained by rising through the ranks of that discipline, but that they have experience managing at that level. THAT skill is what's most important. Go take a look at the skills list I linked above.
Did you even read what you posted? How much of those responsibilities are actually happening within a small group of 10-20 people? It's effectively zero. This whole job description boils down to an over-complicated mess. It's effectively, they oversee the finances of the company and ensure that there is accountability within the organization with regards to their spending and that they are aligned with their forecasts and then reports on how they are trending in relation to those forecasts. Oh! And they take some training courses throughout the year.
Again, I'll acknowledge that if you were applying to a global organization who REQUIRED a CFO then finance skills would definitely be an asset, but we're talking about what amounts to a family business here. In reality it doesn't even necessitate a CFO. Essentially that CFO is a bookkeeper, and someone could take a weekend course for that.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Opinions are fine, but you are trying to create a discussion based on no facts, and lack of knowledge of the topic. Ok, so in your opinion, they made a staffing mistake and that will cause the game to suck/fail/never be complete. Got it, noted. I disagree, I think they are making sound business decisions and the game has a chance at being made barring some other influence ie the CFO dying.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Its gives the impression that they are running a Mickey Mouse operation, not a company that is promising the near impossible - revolutionize the genre in under 2 years with a small budget.
I'm sort of in the same place. I'm a little different, though. Call me foolish, but I'd back the one that shows actual video footage. Oh! Also, it gives me warm and fuzzies when there is also pre-alpha footage of the game already. That's just me, though. Maybe you're a big fan of corporate management teams. Personally, I have never paid very close attention to that sort of thing.
Watch the two videos below and you tell me what you'd be more likely to back.
or
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I don't disagree with anything you are saying. The point I'm trying to make is simply that if you had these two KS introduction videos against each other today, I'd probably feel more confident in backing Ashes because they actually show in-game footage and gameplay. I mean it's always possible that sort of thing is smoke and mirrors, but I've said from the beginning that MJ got lucky. John Romero made 2 tech-light KS campaigns and failed on both. Brad McQuaid made one tech-light KS campaign and failed. As far as technology goes, these guys give, probably, one of the most complete tech intros that I've seen, rivaling maybe Dual Universe.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Industry vets like Marc Jacobs and J Todd get called lairs and scammers, meanwhile a completely unknown guy with no experience comes in with a history of MLM scamming and a flashy video and people are saying "give him a chance!" "He means well!" "Hes a business guy and therefore the right man!"
Is that what you've sold yourself? Nobody here called MJ or J Todd scammers, did they?
I think you're projecting a little bit here. What I asked is which pitch video appears to have a greater chance of being made? Then you got all bent out of shape because I'm right. However, you admittedly backed CU, which is totally fine, but you categorically did NOT back CU based on the content in their video, you backed it based on hopes and dreams because below is the height of their KS tech videos. So, that's cool, you love MJ and J Todd, that's cool. They've done a lot of great things. Don't sit there and act like they sold you on something more than a vision, though.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
To be quite clear, I am not arguing against Marc or Todd, I am just saying, you say they have experience, so does the Ashes team, or does only the people YOU like have experience that counts?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Lots of ideas and promises, not much tech to back it up.
You're the business dude right? How likely is it for a company with 750k + A sugar daddy and 2 programmers to revolutionize a multi-billion dollar industry in under 2 years?
Jacobin: Yes, there is plenty of experience on the team, would you like to predict their chance of success on being able to deliver their promise?
Hatefull: Well, no, I will not make a prediction, but I will say based on the fact that they have hired the right people to do the right jobs and the fact that they have a playable alpha already and certain financial backing, along with a successful Kickstarter, they have at least a much of a chance at delivering a game as any small game studio out there right now. Will they change the industry? I have no way of knowing that.
Jacobin: Wel you make some good points, but I still disagree with you, I feel they made a big mistake in hiring a friend and an un-tested CFO, nor do I find their backing reliable.
Hatefull: Well I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.
Jacobin: Indeed we will.
The end.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I don't know, Crowfall was seeking $800k, yet it's in pre-alpha!!! I know this because I just got an email on it. All that on JUST the money they made in their KS ;P
PS: Do you REALLY think that it's likely that $750k is the budget for this game?
Also, revolutionary doesn't mean that it will be successful. Ask Betamax and HD DVD. In fact, it's highly unlikely that they will even take 5% of the market. We're talking about someone that is unproven. Games like CU, Pantheon, CoE, Ashes, Albion Online, Shards Online are all seeking to prove that this "market" even exists outside of the bubble of the Internet. Nobody even knows if it's sustainable or how large it is.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Yes I backed 2 games 4 years ago which is why I am now very cynical. KS was a new thing back then and people didn't really know what to expect but both games were from day 1 were going for a niche market.
What tiggers me now is that we have a full blown, bona fide scam artist with zero experience making even larger promises with less money and talent and people are lapping it up.
Yup! And both games are approaching the release phases of their game. I'd say that you probably made good bets. Could be worse, I put my money into The Repopulation. That didn't work out as well. I also put money into SC, which has been continual drama.
Now is this guy a scam artist? Meh... He's selling nutritional supplements. The reality about nutritional supplements is that there is no studies proving that any of them work. You know how when you have lots of vitamins your pee changes color and smells funny? Yeah, that's cuz your body doesn't need it. In fact, there are no scientific studies which prove the legitimacy of nutritional supplements. So it's a whole multi-billion dollar industry that's based on lies. Sooooooo am I going to demonize someone for selling something and making claims that aren't scientifically supported? Nope! Not if dumb people buy it. That's not a scam artist, though.
Also, we don't know how much money he's invested, so it could actually be more money. He is selling in a multi-billion dollar industry, right?
Also, we can't really comment on talent. That's a pretty subjective thing. Tell me about how the Crowfall and City State teams are "more talented". It's pretty difficult to do.
Anyway, yeah, I get it. You're not a fan of the game. I'm not even sure I'm going to back it at this point myself based on my own experience. However, that has nothing to do with their team. Their team seems completely competent and able to make a game.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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This is another misconception.
SOE had been a terrible company that was bleeding money for quite a while which is why it crashed and burned.
You can blame Smedley or management but I wouldnt look to the people behind EQnext, Landmark and Planetside 2 for the next under 2 year low budget game that will revolutionize the genre.
I watched the stream live and did not have that reaction. It came across as just another developer trying to be friendly while answering a question and reassuring people that animations will continue to be polished as the game progresses. He understood, as I did, that the question came out of concern and he was trying to alleviate those concerns. I don't remember feeling like any of his reactions were odd when I watched the stream.
This is coming from someone who hasn't given any money to the game and while I hope it does well, I'll be totally fine if it doesn't. Like most games I'm watching, I'm merely a hopeful observer with no skin in the game. I criticize games I am hoping do well as much as I try to support them, so I think I have a fairly neutral view. And so with that, I didn't see anything weird with the stream. But you already think very negatively of him and have an agenda to make him fail, so your interpretation of it is questionable at best.
He's clarified previously on this website and again today on Reddit that most of his money came from real estate and investments.
Here's the link to that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/68tk1l/why_the_ashes_of_creation_referral_program_is_not/dh1912j/
He just strikes me as another entrepreneur.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
You don't become a self made multi millionare who has enough "Fuck you money" to fund his own dream MMO by the age of 31 by being a dumbass with good luck. No such thing exists. You do that by making smart business decisions and having the drive to self motivate and work hard - in his case over a variety of industries for over 15 years.
This is like the people who say our billionaire President is a dumbo too. You don't have to like either of them or what they're doing, but simple logic dictates both of them know what they're doing - even if you don't personally understand it yourself.
Well now, I don't know about revolutionizing the genre (too many players are looking for that and I don't think that's something someone can just "plan") but I think you are correct in blaming former Sony Entertainment management.
management is responsible for budgets, hiring the right people to manage their projects, etc.
If you are saying that the people who are in charge of this new company are the same managers then you have a point. But if they aren't the people who called the shots at Sony Entertainment then it's an unknown quantity.
So "yeah" their team does seem competent and able to make a game. If the people who were in charge of budgets, making final decisions at Sony are these very same people then your point stands. Otherwise this might as well be a brand new start to a brand new company.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Perhaps his mom helped him out by getting him into the business, just like the President's dad did for him?
Or you be the son of the person supplying the products to the pyramid scheme.
He was very good at convincing people that they would become rich by selling overpriced juice, vitamins and other garbage to friends and family.
If the guy is such a genius and self funding a dream game, why is he asking for KS donations?
Because you don't get rich by putting all of your money into the toys you'd like to see made?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Exactly, you find a whole new market of suckers and sell them a fake dream.