Sadly 1 million dollars is not nearly enough to get them even half the way, but its a good start.
Going by their office space in the video and the current look of the game, they already have more than 1 millions dollars in capitals (it's also mentioned in the FAQ that they have capital beside crowdfunding, just not how much).
So why do a KS - they obvoously had enough to "kickstart" the project without crowdfunding.
Isnt "kickstart" as the name suggest to help you start off the project?
So this was jusy basicallly a round of donations?
More-cash-start?
Anyone doing a KS should fully disclose what% of actual project that funds as well as other financials.
I'm confused. For someone who is so close to the industry as you, why are you asking this question? Games have been using KS as a means of marketing over serious funding for a long time now. In fact, if you come to the table with nothing but hopes and dreams, you will fail. Shoot, Camelot Unchained just about failed because of a weak, tech-light pitch.
My mind is literally blown right now. Seriously.
On the disclosure aspect, you're right, it would be nice to have a company be open about the project, how much is done, financials, etc. However, the reality is that the vast majority of people have no fucking idea what it means anyway, so how is that helping inform anyone? In the end, people will simply turn to the first Internet troll who posts something convincing to THEM. It doesn't need to be the truth, it just has to make sense to them. So, no, posting financials doesn't help.
My post was tongue in cheek hehe - questions asked to point out the irony of using a "kickstarter" when your project is well under way.
I am not a big fan of KS done this way because IMO it diminshes projects that legitemately need funding to get off the ground.
This is BS and the industry is exploiting it
This is a crap assessment imo. Nothing against you personally, but so many people rail against games like Pantheon who really needed kickstarter to get off the ground, but failed to produce anything worthwhile demonstrating what they wanted to make.
Now, we have a game who, like Crowfall, came with some funding to get a polished tech demo operating, and people are going to bash them for that? What they've shown is likely only a small fraction of what they need to launch the game, and without further funding, they would be hard pressed to complete it on their own in the current climate.
A million dollars will barely by coffee and snacks for a year
They have private funding, KS is on top of that.
So a game that will need close to 100 Million (to deliver what theyre claiming they want to deliver) seeks a 750K goal as a kickstarter. Thats less than 1% (obviously) so why even bother? Marekting maybe? To claim theyre the (second) most 'successful' KS campaign ever?
Where the fuck did you come up with $100 million. That makes me laugh the same as when someone says stuff like "I LITERALLY have a billion things to do."
Shards Online (Legends of Aria) is in Alpha right now and playable by all backers and they got $50,000. So how did they manage to do that? For just $50,000? When you obviously need $100 million? Crowfall also has a $100 million game in development that was looking for just $800K. Pantheon was looking for less than $1 million. CU got just $2 million and it's going into Alpha. I'm not sure how all these $100 million games are being made, but they're all in public test phases, or approaching public test phases. So maybe they just have really good financial people investing their money.
Shards online is garbage for one thing and this project is claiming to want to do things never been done (successfully) THAT takes money. And the starting point for anything that is going to have any sort of decent gameplay and graphics is going to be 100 million. You can get indy trash made in a basement thats perpetual bugfest and early access for a lot less but it isnt anything anyone really wants to play.
Now they might not need all that money up front and can release something minimal and use future earnings to improve it, but even then theyre going to need more than the generic starter budgets of games like ARK and ED. Although I suspect ARK had a fairly decent budget. And I think ED was even more than the reported 8 million because no one has really confirmed it they just said their initial funding grew quite a bit whenever someone floats the 8 mil figure at them. And obviously in the 2.5 years or so its been around they have spent some of the money it has made to improve it, like actually adding planets you could land on. But even then the whole system had to come out in phases because they didnt have enough money to do it all at once.
So depending on what they want to release at launch depends on how much money they have. Its a pretty basic formula. And while more money doesnt always mean more or better game you cant make a decent game without money. No matter how creative you are.
We do not know how much money they had prior to the KS. They have this to say regarding the funding however:
This project is primarily self funded, and we’re dedicated to staying true to our vision and not being compromised. The core product can be delivered with our current capital and the crowdfunding goal. Going forward, we are dedicated to keeping our vision consistent with our philosophies and adding features whenever possible.
So going by that and assuming they aren't a bunch of liars I would think that they're now certainly on target to deliver what they said they want to. Or do we just keep shooting down these things with negativity?
We do not know how much money they had prior to the KS. They have this to say regarding the funding however:
This project is primarily self funded, and we’re dedicated to staying true to our vision and not being compromised. The core product can be delivered with our current capital and the crowdfunding goal. Going forward, we are dedicated to keeping our vision consistent with our philosophies and adding features whenever possible.
So going by that and assuming they aren't a bunch of liars I would think that they're now certainly on target to deliver what they said they want to. Or do we just keep shooting down these things with negativity?
Have the stated what the "Core Product" includes and excludes? Have they stated what the budget is?
Othrwise that statement is as useful as saying "We are on target to make a good game"
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I have not seen specifics in regards to the budget, it's probably not something they're going to release probably due to private investors not wanting the specifics of their investment released. Would it be helpful to disclose that information to allay fears regarding the certainty of the product? Sure.
Why cant we just believe what they're saying that they have it covered?
I have not seen specifics in regards to the budget, it's probably not something they're going to release probably due to private investors not wanting the specifics of their investment released. Would it be helpful to disclose that information to allay fears regarding the certainty of the product? Sure.
Why cant we just believe what they're saying that they have it covered?
I would never say that YOU can't believe anything they say. History has shown me personally that Kickstarters always overpromise and overestimate both their resources and their abilities. This is why every single MMORPG Kickstarter I am aware of has either failed or been in development hell. That doesn't stop me from pledging... but I believe in asking important (and sometimes difficult questions). I'm also not going to get personally offended if you criticize a company or dev team for one of my Kickstarters. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
In the interest of openness, I currently have a $125 Early Bird Founders package reserved but I will ask tough questions right up to the last day of Kickstarter and all the way through the inevitably delayed launch. That's whether or not I cancel it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I have not seen specifics in regards to the budget, it's probably not something they're going to release probably due to private investors not wanting the specifics of their investment released. Would it be helpful to disclose that information to allay fears regarding the certainty of the product? Sure.
Why cant we just believe what they're saying that they have it covered?
I would never say that YOU can't believe anything they say. History has shown me personally that Kickstarters always overpromise and overestimate both their resources and their abilities. This is why every single MMORPG Kickstarter I am aware of has either failed or been in development hell. That doesn't stop me from pledging... but I believe in asking important (and sometimes difficult questions). I'm also not going to get personally offended if you criticize a company or dev team for one of my Kickstarters. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
In the interest of openness, I currently have a $125 Early Bird Founders package reserved but I will ask tough questions right up to the last day of Kickstarter and all the way through the inevitably delayed launch. That's whether or not I cancel it.
I hear ya. I think I've just seen so much negativity regarding these things. Maybe I'm being too optimistic with it all. We shall see. Am currently backing a few projects and when I think about it none have actually been completed yet, and one in particular I think is a complete mess. But the others imo are proceeding as I expected in regards to development timeframes.
I hope you get some answers to your questions before the end of the KS.
A million dollars will barely by coffee and snacks for a year
They have private funding, KS is on top of that.
So a game that will need close to 100 Million (to deliver what theyre claiming they want to deliver) seeks a 750K goal as a kickstarter. Thats less than 1% (obviously) so why even bother? Marekting maybe? To claim theyre the (second) most 'successful' KS campaign ever?
Where the fuck did you come up with $100 million. That makes me laugh the same as when someone says stuff like "I LITERALLY have a billion things to do."
Shards Online (Legends of Aria) is in Alpha right now and playable by all backers and they got $50,000. So how did they manage to do that? For just $50,000? When you obviously need $100 million? Crowfall also has a $100 million game in development that was looking for just $800K. Pantheon was looking for less than $1 million. CU got just $2 million and it's going into Alpha. I'm not sure how all these $100 million games are being made, but they're all in public test phases, or approaching public test phases. So maybe they just have really good financial people investing their money.
Shards online is garbage for one thing and this project is claiming to want to do things never been done (successfully) THAT takes money. And the starting point for anything that is going to have any sort of decent gameplay and graphics is going to be 100 million. You can get indy trash made in a basement thats perpetual bugfest and early access for a lot less but it isnt anything anyone really wants to play.
Now they might not need all that money up front and can release something minimal and use future earnings to improve it, but even then theyre going to need more than the generic starter budgets of games like ARK and ED. Although I suspect ARK had a fairly decent budget. And I think ED was even more than the reported 8 million because no one has really confirmed it they just said their initial funding grew quite a bit whenever someone floats the 8 mil figure at them. And obviously in the 2.5 years or so its been around they have spent some of the money it has made to improve it, like actually adding planets you could land on. But even then the whole system had to come out in phases because they didnt have enough money to do it all at once.
So depending on what they want to release at launch depends on how much money they have. Its a pretty basic formula. And while more money doesnt always mean more or better game you cant make a decent game without money. No matter how creative you are.
I haven't played Shards yet. I don't play alphas, generally. How often did you play it? Or are you commenting solely on video you've seen and graphics, etc? It's very Albion Online-like so yeah graphics are secondary.
HOWEVER, $100 million games are NOT common. The reality is that the industry is attempting to go in the opposite direction. There are VERY few games which tipped over that $100 million mark. This game would NOT be a $100 million game. Remember that the majority of game development budgets are labor, and with a team of 10 people or so, we're talking about a cost probably a little over $1 million annually. Unless they ramp up their development staff to the levels of Star Citizen, nether you nor I will ever see this game pass the $100 million mark.
Yes, based on my understanding of Ashes, they plan on shipping an MVP, SORRY! Core Viable Product. Whatever that CVP looks like? I have no idea. I don't think they've announced what will be included yet.
I agree that the project requires money to live, but it sounds like what we have here is a fan who is a millionaire who is making a game. Here's an interesting theory...... So Pantheon APPARENTLY had a fan a while back who said that they would be willing to fund the project, or something to that extent. I'm wondering if maybe this is the dude. Maybe he decided that, instead, he could run a better company and he'd just hire a group of experienced people and do the game EXACTLY how he wants it. Just an interesting theory I thought of.
A million dollars will barely by coffee and snacks for a year
They have private funding, KS is on top of that.
So a game that will need close to 100 Million (to deliver what theyre claiming they want to deliver) seeks a 750K goal as a kickstarter. Thats less than 1% (obviously) so why even bother? Marekting maybe? To claim theyre the (second) most 'successful' KS campaign ever?
Where the fuck did you come up with $100 million. That makes me laugh the same as when someone says stuff like "I LITERALLY have a billion things to do."
Shards Online (Legends of Aria) is in Alpha right now and playable by all backers and they got $50,000. So how did they manage to do that? For just $50,000? When you obviously need $100 million? Crowfall also has a $100 million game in development that was looking for just $800K. Pantheon was looking for less than $1 million. CU got just $2 million and it's going into Alpha. I'm not sure how all these $100 million games are being made, but they're all in public test phases, or approaching public test phases. So maybe they just have really good financial people investing their money.
Shards online is garbage for one thing and this project is claiming to want to do things never been done (successfully) THAT takes money. And the starting point for anything that is going to have any sort of decent gameplay and graphics is going to be 100 million. You can get indy trash made in a basement thats perpetual bugfest and early access for a lot less but it isnt anything anyone really wants to play.
Now they might not need all that money up front and can release something minimal and use future earnings to improve it, but even then theyre going to need more than the generic starter budgets of games like ARK and ED. Although I suspect ARK had a fairly decent budget. And I think ED was even more than the reported 8 million because no one has really confirmed it they just said their initial funding grew quite a bit whenever someone floats the 8 mil figure at them. And obviously in the 2.5 years or so its been around they have spent some of the money it has made to improve it, like actually adding planets you could land on. But even then the whole system had to come out in phases because they didnt have enough money to do it all at once.
So depending on what they want to release at launch depends on how much money they have. Its a pretty basic formula. And while more money doesnt always mean more or better game you cant make a decent game without money. No matter how creative you are.
I haven't played Shards yet. I don't play alphas, generally. How often did you play it? Or are you commenting solely on video you've seen and graphics, etc? It's very Albion Online-like so yeah graphics are secondary.
HOWEVER, $100 million games are NOT common. The reality is that the industry is attempting to go in the opposite direction. There are VERY few games which tipped over that $100 million mark. This game would NOT be a $100 million game. Remember that the majority of game development budgets are labor, and with a team of 10 people or so, we're talking about a cost probably a little over $1 million annually. Unless they ramp up their development staff to the levels of Star Citizen, nether you nor I will ever see this game pass the $100 million mark.
Yes, based on my understanding of Ashes, they plan on shipping an MVP, SORRY! Core Viable Product. Whatever that CVP looks like? I have no idea. I don't think they've announced what will be included yet.
I agree that the project requires money to live, but it sounds like what we have here is a fan who is a millionaire who is making a game. Here's an interesting theory...... So Pantheon APPARENTLY had a fan a while back who said that they would be willing to fund the project, or something to that extent. I'm wondering if maybe this is the dude. Maybe he decided that, instead, he could run a better company and he'd just hire a group of experienced people and do the game EXACTLY how he wants it. Just an interesting theory I thought of.
Not many hours but enough to know that playing more wouldnt change anything. And that is of course figuring in the whole 'alpha' nonsense they use at their convenience.
As for 100 million dollar games I suspect every major studio game to come out that was semi playable at release cost that much. That is also going way back a decade to the likes of Lotro and Rift and Conan. Since then I imagine GW2 cost that much, ESO BDO combing all its iterations, Wildstar, Star Wars. In reality there havent been any actually RELEASED MMOs in the last decade. Its mostly early access crap and perpetual alphas and the usual shit we see. When you go and look at actual fully released retail games since the 'golden age' a decade ago the list is pathetically small. I bet it doesnt average one a year. Off the top of my head those I listed are the only ones I can think of. FF XIV and Archeage I suppose. So counting those two its what, 7 or so games that came out in released form? Thats not very many and only a couple of them (IMO) are even playable.
I like the concept they have, I hope they can do it. But to deliver something the way I think theyre trying to deliver it is going ot cost alot of money. Again it doesnt have to be all at once, and the sooner they make that clear , which i think they have the better. But maming up new terms for a minimal viable release isnt going to cut it and it raises red flags for me. All these people have to do is be HONEST. Stop being salesmen for once. If the game is worth making and is fun enough it will make enough money. Even if you make 'bad' decisions (see my Wilcard/Ark comments for 'prrof' of that).
Comments
Totally agree! It's like one of these:
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Shards online is garbage for one thing and this project is claiming to want to do things never been done (successfully) THAT takes money. And the starting point for anything that is going to have any sort of decent gameplay and graphics is going to be 100 million. You can get indy trash made in a basement thats perpetual bugfest and early access for a lot less but it isnt anything anyone really wants to play.
Now they might not need all that money up front and can release something minimal and use future earnings to improve it, but even then theyre going to need more than the generic starter budgets of games like ARK and ED. Although I suspect ARK had a fairly decent budget. And I think ED was even more than the reported 8 million because no one has really confirmed it they just said their initial funding grew quite a bit whenever someone floats the 8 mil figure at them. And obviously in the 2.5 years or so its been around they have spent some of the money it has made to improve it, like actually adding planets you could land on. But even then the whole system had to come out in phases because they didnt have enough money to do it all at once.
So depending on what they want to release at launch depends on how much money they have. Its a pretty basic formula. And while more money doesnt always mean more or better game you cant make a decent game without money. No matter how creative you are.
Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios/faqs
Under the heading: How can you build am MMO for $750k?
So going by that and assuming they aren't a bunch of liars I would think that they're now certainly on target to deliver what they said they want to. Or do we just keep shooting down these things with negativity?
Have the stated what the "Core Product" includes and excludes? Have they stated what the budget is?
Othrwise that statement is as useful as saying "We are on target to make a good game"
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Why cant we just believe what they're saying that they have it covered?
I would never say that YOU can't believe anything they say. History has shown me personally that Kickstarters always overpromise and overestimate both their resources and their abilities. This is why every single MMORPG Kickstarter I am aware of has either failed or been in development hell. That doesn't stop me from pledging... but I believe in asking important (and sometimes difficult questions). I'm also not going to get personally offended if you criticize a company or dev team for one of my Kickstarters. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
In the interest of openness, I currently have a $125 Early Bird Founders package reserved but I will ask tough questions right up to the last day of Kickstarter and all the way through the inevitably delayed launch. That's whether or not I cancel it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I hear ya. I think I've just seen so much negativity regarding these things. Maybe I'm being too optimistic with it all. We shall see. Am currently backing a few projects and when I think about it none have actually been completed yet, and one in particular I think is a complete mess. But the others imo are proceeding as I expected in regards to development timeframes.
I hope you get some answers to your questions before the end of the KS.
I haven't played Shards yet. I don't play alphas, generally. How often did you play it? Or are you commenting solely on video you've seen and graphics, etc? It's very Albion Online-like so yeah graphics are secondary.
HOWEVER, $100 million games are NOT common. The reality is that the industry is attempting to go in the opposite direction. There are VERY few games which tipped over that $100 million mark. This game would NOT be a $100 million game. Remember that the majority of game development budgets are labor, and with a team of 10 people or so, we're talking about a cost probably a little over $1 million annually. Unless they ramp up their development staff to the levels of Star Citizen, nether you nor I will ever see this game pass the $100 million mark.
Yes, based on my understanding of Ashes, they plan on shipping an MVP, SORRY! Core Viable Product. Whatever that CVP looks like? I have no idea. I don't think they've announced what will be included yet.
I agree that the project requires money to live, but it sounds like what we have here is a fan who is a millionaire who is making a game. Here's an interesting theory...... So Pantheon APPARENTLY had a fan a while back who said that they would be willing to fund the project, or something to that extent. I'm wondering if maybe this is the dude. Maybe he decided that, instead, he could run a better company and he'd just hire a group of experienced people and do the game EXACTLY how he wants it. Just an interesting theory I thought of.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Not many hours but enough to know that playing more wouldnt change anything. And that is of course figuring in the whole 'alpha' nonsense they use at their convenience.
As for 100 million dollar games I suspect every major studio game to come out that was semi playable at release cost that much. That is also going way back a decade to the likes of Lotro and Rift and Conan. Since then I imagine GW2 cost that much, ESO BDO combing all its iterations, Wildstar, Star Wars. In reality there havent been any actually RELEASED MMOs in the last decade. Its mostly early access crap and perpetual alphas and the usual shit we see. When you go and look at actual fully released retail games since the 'golden age' a decade ago the list is pathetically small. I bet it doesnt average one a year. Off the top of my head those I listed are the only ones I can think of. FF XIV and Archeage I suppose. So counting those two its what, 7 or so games that came out in released form? Thats not very many and only a couple of them (IMO) are even playable.
I like the concept they have, I hope they can do it. But to deliver something the way I think theyre trying to deliver it is going ot cost alot of money. Again it doesnt have to be all at once, and the sooner they make that clear , which i think they have the better. But maming up new terms for a minimal viable release isnt going to cut it and it raises red flags for me. All these people have to do is be HONEST. Stop being salesmen for once. If the game is worth making and is fun enough it will make enough money. Even if you make 'bad' decisions (see my Wilcard/Ark comments for 'prrof' of that).