Never in the history or future of video game development will you get an official financial statement. That is personal information. I am going off of what he has said. True or not that is all we have to go on. You are going off of your own personal doubts and fears.
Lots of people get suckered into MLM companies. His whole family as a kid was involved. He didn't create the company and he was one of the lucky ones to make money of it. Now at least we benefit from it by getting a good MMO.
You are creating a situation where no one can change your mind so what is the point of arguing with people? Yes I am free to believe him and you are free to not believe him. End of story.
It is personal information, and it is often published for anyone to read according to the Sarbanes-Oxley act. It depends on the company size and structure. This legislation happened around the turn of the century thanks to what happened in a few little corps by the names of Enron and WorldCom. Similar legislation has been adopted by many countries around the world, and is considered GAAP.
(Note the "Financial" tab - balance sheets may be downloaded for any so inclined)
Corps like CIG/RSI are not required to report, as they are "privately" held (not publicly traded).
My opinion is that the advent of widespread crowdfunding has blurred the lines somewhat w.r.t. what constitutes a "public" company, and legislation is ponderously catching up to the times.
It makes a little sense for a publicly traded company to post their statements. Though I have never seen or heard a game company do so. You probably know more than I do about it though. lol
I think i explained that before, maybe you missed it. Just because someone on the internet says they have $30 million invested into something does not make it true. This is typically what scammers, ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes do. This guy is associated with a pyramid scheme MLM company so i would be very cautious to believe anything this guy says.
As long as there is no evidence in the form of an official financial statement, the 30 million simply do not exist and all we know is that he will have whatever Kickstarter brings in.
You are of cause free to believe him, but your believe does not change the facts.
Never in the history or future of video game development will you get an official financial statement. That is personal information. I am going off of what he has said. True or not that is all we have to go on. You are going off of your own personal doubts and fears.
Let's not get lost in the depths of a legal argument and bring forth a shining example of a video game development that actually shared their financials and prove your statement wrong.
Look up Double Fine Adventure. They published their financial statements in detail every month on the backer forums. They published their business plan, design documents and a quarterly filmed documentation including financial meetings.
Unprecedented transparency unlike other project that are claiming transparency (looking at you StarCitizen).
I rest my case.
Alright fine. I had no idea this was done. Seems very odd to me. Maybe AoC isn't on the level of unprecedented transparency. However I am assuming that game was 100% reliant on kickstarter money. The portion of money you are asking for is Steven's money. If I were him I would feel uncomfortable sharing it. Who know though. There is still time. Maybe he will?
So then all crowdfunded MMOs are doomed. Fuck! Thanks for the info. I'm glad I didn't back this one. I wasn't aware this was such a massive undertaking. It's clear to me now that this is the reason no small budget MMO will ever be delivered.
I never said all crowd funded MMOs are doomed.
Yes it is a massive undertaking. I am glad you understand the complexity of creating a MMORPG now.
Can you provide some factual evidence that there are small budget crowd funded MMORPGS that have delivered what they promised. I would love to see them and support them.
That is the thing. Steven said he invested his own money. We don't know how much specifically he invested but he said he has budgeted $30 million. That isn't a small budget and it isn't completely crowd funded. I think it is safe to say they know as well as you how hard MMOs are to make. They specifically mention the other failed kickstarters. They are well aware.
I think i explained that before, maybe you missed it. Just because someone on the internet says they have $30 million invested into something does not make it true. This is typically what scammers, ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes do. This guy is associated with a pyramid scheme MLM company so i would be very cautious to believe anything this guy says.
As long as there is no evidence in the form of an official financial statement, the 30 million simply do not exist and all we know is that he will have whatever Kickstarter brings in.
You are of cause free to believe him, but your believe does not change the facts.
Never in the history or future of video game development will you get an official financial statement. That is personal information. I am going off of what he has said. True or not that is all we have to go on. You are going off of your own personal doubts and fears.
Lots of people get suckered into MLM companies. His whole family as a kid was involved. He didn't create the company and he was one of the lucky ones to make money of it. Now at least we benefit from it by getting a good MMO.
You are creating a situation where no one can change your mind so what is the point of arguing with people? Yes I am free to believe him and you are free to not believe him. End of story.
It is personal information, and it is often published for anyone to read according to the Sarbanes-Oxley act. It depends on the company size and structure. This legislation happened around the turn of the century thanks to what happened in a few little corps by the names of Enron and WorldCom. Similar legislation has been adopted by many countries around the world, and is considered GAAP.
(Note the "Financial" tab - balance sheets may be downloaded for any so inclined)
Corps like CIG/RSI are not required to report, as they are "privately" held (not publicly traded).
My opinion is that the advent of widespread crowdfunding has blurred the lines somewhat w.r.t. what constitutes a "public" company, and legislation is ponderously catching up to the times.
I agree
Sad thing is that it will probably take a couple high profile disasters to bring about the needed changes.
I think i explained that before, maybe you missed it. Just because someone on the internet says they have $30 million invested into something does not make it true. This is typically what scammers, ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes do. This guy is associated with a pyramid scheme MLM company so i would be very cautious to believe anything this guy says.
As long as there is no evidence in the form of an official financial statement, the 30 million simply do not exist and all we know is that he will have whatever Kickstarter brings in.
You are of cause free to believe him, but your believe does not change the facts.
Never in the history or future of video game development will you get an official financial statement. That is personal information. I am going off of what he has said. True or not that is all we have to go on. You are going off of your own personal doubts and fears.
Let's not get lost in the depths of a legal argument and bring forth a shining example of a video game development that actually shared their financials and prove your statement wrong.
Look up Double Fine Adventure. They published their financial statements in detail every month on the backer forums. They published their business plan, design documents and a quarterly filmed documentation including financial meetings.
Unprecedented transparency unlike other project that are claiming transparency (looking at you StarCitizen).
I rest my case.
Alright fine. I had no idea this was done. Seems very odd to me. Maybe AoC isn't on the level of unprecedented transparency. However I am assuming that game was 100% reliant on kickstarter money. The portion of money you are asking for is Steven's money. If I were him I would feel uncomfortable sharing it. Who know though. There is still time. Maybe he will?
It is odd. One example does not make the rule. Most companies aren't so transparent.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think i explained that before, maybe you missed it. Just because someone on the internet says they have $30 million invested into something does not make it true. This is typically what scammers, ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes do. This guy is associated with a pyramid scheme MLM company so i would be very cautious to believe anything this guy says.
As long as there is no evidence in the form of an official financial statement, the 30 million simply do not exist and all we know is that he will have whatever Kickstarter brings in.
You are of cause free to believe him, but your believe does not change the facts.
Never in the history or future of video game development will you get an official financial statement. That is personal information. I am going off of what he has said. True or not that is all we have to go on. You are going off of your own personal doubts and fears.
Let's not get lost in the depths of a legal argument and bring forth a shining example of a video game development that actually shared their financials and prove your statement wrong.
Look up Double Fine Adventure. They published their financial statements in detail every month on the backer forums. They published their business plan, design documents and a quarterly filmed documentation including financial meetings.
Unprecedented transparency unlike other project that are claiming transparency (looking at you StarCitizen).
I rest my case.
Alright fine. I had no idea this was done. Seems very odd to me. Maybe AoC isn't on the level of unprecedented transparency. However I am assuming that game was 100% reliant on kickstarter money. The portion of money you are asking for is Steven's money. If I were him I would feel uncomfortable sharing it. Who know though. There is still time. Maybe he will?
It is odd. One example does not make the rule. Most companies aren't so transparent.
Further proving the rule that 'corps will only do it if they have to'. It's a race to the bottom, folks, and the future's looking dismal.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the Ashes campaign so far... not like Greed Monger and Star Citizen seemed to me from day 1. Shariff should probably stop making claims like 'you could earn $10k from referring people to our game', if he really did so.
All these newblets running around clucking "MLM" seem silly.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I can't speak for, against, or about Ashes of Creation -- I know absolutely nothing about it.
But I do have to ask. Why they hell is there so much hatred towards independent fundraising? It's been proven effective and you don't have to stand in line to prove to an investor anything that is going to be skeptical and likely not interested in even the subject matter.
This couldn't be proven true or false, but mega corporation develops game that sucks but got these investors and no one complains and that company still makes millions/billions. And independent company/team raises a mil just to develop something and everyone freaks out. The difference still is that the fund raised can turn out to be a better game and the artists can get their message across, unlike the bureaucracy game company that is literally only after your money. Sure, it may end up just as bad as the mega corp games, but there isn't some jackass breathing down their neck.
First of all, Kickstarter is not a fundraiser for venture capital. It's a no strings attached funding scheme were all the liability rests with the people giving money to projects.
If they are not after our money then why make a Kickstarter? They want to get paid before they deliver a Product. They will pay themselves if the game releases or not and there is no financial oversight. In a corporate environment the risk is on the corporation and not the customers.
If every Kickstarter had to open their books to their backers with quarterly reports on finances then i would agree with you. Since this is not the case, it is a breeding ground for amateur businessmen that could not write a business plan if their life depended on it.
I am sure that very few of the failed Kickstarters did go in with the intention to scam people, most failed because of incompetence and the inability to manage the project.
Constructive criticism requires that i at least propose some solution.
As said before, one solution would be financial accountability towards the backers.
Stricter Requirements: Like a full Business Plan as part of a project pitch.
Only 50% of the funds are released immediately and the rest is released when the Product is delivered.
Just my opinion. No Hatred at all.
Well thank you for stepping on the people that aren't venture capitals using kickstarter for fund raising their projects as it is even stated in the kickstarter mission statement.
I feel really bad for the little guys you're kicking around that can't get money for their projects because of the falsehoods you insist upon and convince others of.
I think i explained that before, maybe you missed it. Just because someone on the internet says they have $30 million invested into something does not make it true. This is typically what scammers, ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes do. This guy is associated with a pyramid scheme MLM company so i would be very cautious to believe anything this guy says.
As long as there is no evidence in the form of an official financial statement, the 30 million simply do not exist and all we know is that he will have whatever Kickstarter brings in.
You are of cause free to believe him, but your believe does not change the facts.
Lots of people get suckered into MLM companies. His whole family as a kid was involved. He didn't create the company and he was one of the lucky ones to make money of it. Now at least we benefit from it by getting a good MMO.
You are creating a situation where no one can change your mind so what is the point of arguing with people? Yes I am free to believe him and you are free to not believe him. End of story.
His mom owns the company. He was one of the lucky ones? I can't comment seriously on this, it's just too far removed from reality.
I am creating no situation. I am stating a fact and that has nothing to do with opinion. As long as there is no proof, there is no $30 million. You can chose to believe him, just like you can chose to believe in Unicorns. There is no evidence to support his claim and therefor from a scientific and logic standpoint there are no $30 million.
“I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.” ― Stanisław Lem
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" ― Derek's Law
I think i explained that before, maybe you missed it. Just because someone on the internet says they have $30 million invested into something does not make it true. This is typically what scammers, ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes do. This guy is associated with a pyramid scheme MLM company so i would be very cautious to believe anything this guy says.
As long as there is no evidence in the form of an official financial statement, the 30 million simply do not exist and all we know is that he will have whatever Kickstarter brings in.
You are of cause free to believe him, but your believe does not change the facts.
Lots of people get suckered into MLM companies. His whole family as a kid was involved. He didn't create the company and he was one of the lucky ones to make money of it. Now at least we benefit from it by getting a good MMO.
You are creating a situation where no one can change your mind so what is the point of arguing with people? Yes I am free to believe him and you are free to not believe him. End of story.
His mom owns the company. He was one of the lucky ones? I can't comment seriously on this, it's just too far removed from reality.
I am creating no situation. I am stating a fact and that has nothing to do with opinion. As long as there is no proof, there is no $30 million. You can chose to believe him, just like you can chose to believe in Unicorns. There is no evidence to support his claim and therefor from a scientific and logic standpoint there are no $30 million.
The same applies to you though. You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically. Right now it is in a state of Schrodinger's Millions. I never claimed to have proof. I just believe him.
You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically.
Wow, just...wow. You can't prove flying tea pots don't exist, therefore they do?
I think I understand how Steven Sharif made so much money at his Mom's company.
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically.
Wow, just...wow. You can't prove flying tea pots don't exist, therefore they do?
I think I understand how Steven Sharif made so much money at his Mom's company.
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
Can you point me to the specific quote where he says the company has the 30M fully funded and in the bank? That's all I've been looking for. You keep saying he's done that but then try to string multiple quotes together to make the case. Just looking for the quote where he says the company has 30M in the bank.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
So when Steven tells people Xango juice (~$40 a bottle) has rare a concentration of 'xanthones' which provide incredible health benefits that no other company has discovered you also choose to believe him?
You can believe whatever you want, that doesn't mean it has any bearing on reality and you shouldn't be surprised when people question your credibility.
You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically.
Wow, just...wow. You can't prove flying tea pots don't exist, therefore they do?
I think I understand how Steven Sharif made so much money at his Mom's company.
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
What you believe or not has nothing to do with logic as your previously said. That's where we are correcting you.
You are right to believe whatever you want and nobody has any right to censure you on that.
And I was using sarcasm to show that it is also not logical to state that the money doesn't exist. Unless you have proof, there is nothing logical about it. You are also BELIEVING the money doesn't exist just as I am BELIEVING it does. We are both relying on our belief.
Scientifically the money both does and does not exist. Schrodinger's cat style. lol
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
So when Steven tells people Xango juice (~$40 a bottle) has rare a concentration of 'xanthones' which provide incredible health benefits that no other company has discovered you also choose to believe him?
You can believe whatever you want, that doesn't mean it has any bearing on reality and you shouldn't be surprised when people question your credibility.
I'm still not sure why you're harping on this subject of fooling people. Go take a walk into Walmart and take a look at the pharmacy. It's full of vitamins! What's more is that there is no scientific evidence that they do ANYTHING!! Go google it! It's fucking crazy! There's really no difference here. The only difference is the sales tactics. The science is no better than vitamins.
You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically.
Wow, just...wow. You can't prove flying tea pots don't exist, therefore they do?
I think I understand how Steven Sharif made so much money at his Mom's company.
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
Can you point me to the specific quote where he says the company has the 30M fully funded and in the bank? That's all I've been looking for. You keep saying he's done that but then try to string multiple quotes together to make the case. Just looking for the quote where he says the company has 30M in the bank.
Yeah. I'm trying to find solid info on that and failed. Asked many times in many threads but people just shrugs it off or dismiss it and go back to "you are all haters" v "you are all fanboys"
There is only mention that I know of that the total cost to create the game where the number 30 million comes up. And that's from the Massively interview. Brea (the author) clarified in the comment section that he (Steven) said they 'needed' the money, not that they had 'secured' that money.
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
So when Steven tells people Xango juice (~$40 a bottle) has rare a concentration of 'xanthones' which provide incredible health benefits that no other company has discovered you also choose to believe him?
You can believe whatever you want, that doesn't mean it has any bearing on reality and you shouldn't be surprised when people question your credibility.
I'm still not sure why you're harping on this subject of fooling people. Go take a walk into Walmart and take a look at the pharmacy. It's full of vitamins! What's more is that there is no scientific evidence that they do ANYTHING!! Go google it! It's fucking crazy! There's really no difference here. The only difference is the sales tactics. The science is no better than vitamins.
Same thing for flossing, or so I'm told. I'll still follow my dentist's orders, though.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically.
Wow, just...wow. You can't prove flying tea pots don't exist, therefore they do?
I think I understand how Steven Sharif made so much money at his Mom's company.
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
What you believe or not has nothing to do with logic as your previously said. That's where we are correcting you.
You are right to believe whatever you want and nobody has any right to censure you on that.
And I was using sarcasm to show that it is also not logical to state that the money doesn't exist. Unless you have proof, there is nothing logical about it. You are also BELIEVING the money doesn't exist just as I am BELIEVING it does. We are both relying on our belief.
What?
Unless proof exists it does not exist.
What are you talking about?
Nobody is forcing them to be transparent, that's their motto. If he made a claim then he has to back it with evidence, not us that would have to disprove the nonexistence of something that has no proof of existence.
If they don't want then good. We move on. But don't ask to anyone here to just shush about it - you lose your point there.
That is so very wrong. Are you 100% sure it does not exist because I do not currently have proof? If not then you are choosing to believe it does not exist. Therefor we are both relying on belief and not fact.
You are acting like you have some logical high ground when it isn't true. You can not have proof of something and it still exist.
Because we don't have proof of how gravity works does that mean it doesn't exist?
I'm still not sure why you're harping on this subject of fooling people.
I'm not sure why you have such a hard time seeing the very obvious relevance of a guy who made his money based on fake hype and dishonest marketing now making highly dubious claims in the mmorpg space.
Sure lots of consumer products companies do it, but that doesn't excuse the behavior and they are not asking for community money for a MMORPG.
I can't speak for, against, or about Ashes of Creation -- I know absolutely nothing about it.
But I do have to ask. Why they hell is there so much hatred towards independent fundraising? It's been proven effective and you don't have to stand in line to prove to an investor anything that is going to be skeptical and likely not interested in even the subject matter.
This couldn't be proven true or false, but mega corporation develops game that sucks but got these investors and no one complains and that company still makes millions/billions. And independent company/team raises a mil just to develop something and everyone freaks out. The difference still is that the fund raised can turn out to be a better game and the artists can get their message across, unlike the bureaucracy game company that is literally only after your money. Sure, it may end up just as bad as the mega corp games, but there isn't some jackass breathing down their neck.
First of all, Kickstarter is not a fundraiser for venture capital. It's a no strings attached funding scheme were all the liability rests with the people giving money to projects.
If they are not after our money then why make a Kickstarter? They want to get paid before they deliver a Product. They will pay themselves if the game releases or not and there is no financial oversight. In a corporate environment the risk is on the corporation and not the customers.
If every Kickstarter had to open their books to their backers with quarterly reports on finances then i would agree with you. Since this is not the case, it is a breeding ground for amateur businessmen that could not write a business plan if their life depended on it.
I am sure that very few of the failed Kickstarters did go in with the intention to scam people, most failed because of incompetence and the inability to manage the project.
Constructive criticism requires that i at least propose some solution.
As said before, one solution would be financial accountability towards the backers.
Stricter Requirements: Like a full Business Plan as part of a project pitch.
Only 50% of the funds are released immediately and the rest is released when the Product is delivered.
Just my opinion. No Hatred at all.
Well thank you for stepping on the people that aren't venture capitals using kickstarter for fund raising their projects as it is even stated in the kickstarter mission statement.
I feel really bad for the little guys you're kicking around that can't get money for their projects because of the falsehoods you insist upon and convince others of.
That is not what i said. I made an argument and provided possible solutions. You had the chance to present a counter argument however you chose to reply with an unequivocal conjecture twisting what i said.
The logical conclusions is that i will not reply to you any more since you have proven to be unwilling to participate in an open an honest discussion.
“I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.” ― Stanisław Lem
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" ― Derek's Law
You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically.
Wow, just...wow. You can't prove flying tea pots don't exist, therefore they do?
I think I understand how Steven Sharif made so much money at his Mom's company.
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
What you believe or not has nothing to do with logic as your previously said. That's where we are correcting you.
You are right to believe whatever you want and nobody has any right to censure you on that.
And I was using sarcasm to show that it is also not logical to state that the money doesn't exist. Unless you have proof, there is nothing logical about it. You are also BELIEVING the money doesn't exist just as I am BELIEVING it does. We are both relying on our belief.
What?
Unless proof exists it does not exist.
What are you talking about?
Nobody is forcing them to be transparent, that's their motto. If he made a claim then he has to back it with evidence, not us that would have to disprove the nonexistence of something that has no proof of existence.
If they don't want then good. We move on. But don't ask to anyone here to just shush about it - you lose your point there.
That is so very wrong. Are you 100% sure it does not exist because I do not currently have proof? If not then you are choosing to believe it does not exist. Therefor we are both relying on belief and not fact.
You are acting like you have some logical high ground when it isn't true. You can not have proof of something and it still exist.
Because we don't have proof of how gravity works does that mean it doesn't exist?
You keep making false arguments. Please simply link the statement from Steven where he said they have 30M funded and in the bank. Just the statement. You keep saying that Steven has stated this but have never shown where. Simply link that statement.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically.
Wow, just...wow. You can't prove flying tea pots don't exist, therefore they do?
I think I understand how Steven Sharif made so much money at his Mom's company.
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
What you believe or not has nothing to do with logic as your previously said. That's where we are correcting you.
You are right to believe whatever you want and nobody has any right to censure you on that.
And I was using sarcasm to show that it is also not logical to state that the money doesn't exist. Unless you have proof, there is nothing logical about it. You are also BELIEVING the money doesn't exist just as I am BELIEVING it does. We are both relying on our belief.
What?
Unless proof exists it does not exist.
What are you talking about?
Nobody is forcing them to be transparent, that's their motto. If he made a claim then he has to back it with evidence, not us that would have to disprove the nonexistence of something that has no proof of existence.
If they don't want then good. We move on. But don't ask to anyone here to just shush about it - you lose your point there.
That is so very wrong. Are you 100% sure it does not exist because I do not currently have proof? If not then you are choosing to believe it does not exist. Therefor we are both relying on belief and not fact.
You are acting like you have some logical high ground when it isn't true. You can not have proof of something and it still exist.
Because we don't have proof of how gravity works does that mean it doesn't exist?
You keep making false arguments. Please simply link the statement from Steven where he said they have 30M funded and in the bank. Just the statement. You keep saying that Steven has stated this but have never shown where. Simply link that statement.
"The project is being funded by myself currently. This is going to be a bigger game, content-wise, than Crowfall, and our budget and funding reflects that. A core viable build that includes all the features discussed about the game will take roughly $30 million to complete. The Kickstarter and any other crowdfunding we might engage in is intended to add to that budget, for additional scope on certain systems we intend to reveal throughout development."
"This project is primarily self funded, and we’re dedicated to staying true to our vision and not being compromised. The core product can be delivered with our current capital and the crowdfunding goal. Going forward, we are dedicated to keeping our vision consistent with our philosophies and adding features whenever possible."
You can pick apart his wording all you want but he reached his crowdfunding goal so that means he can deliver the core product which he budgeted to take $30 million to complete.
Nobody is forcing them to be transparent, that's their motto. If he made a claim then he has to back it with evidence, not us that would have to disprove the nonexistence of something that has no proof of existence.
If they don't want then good. We move on. But don't ask to anyone here to just shush about it - you lose your point there.
That is so very wrong. Are you 100% sure it does not exist because I do not currently have proof? If not then you are choosing to believe it does not exist. Therefor we are both relying on belief and not fact.
You are acting like you have some logical high ground when it isn't true. You can not have proof of something and it still exist.
Because we don't have proof of how gravity works does that mean it doesn't exist?
The same applies to you though. You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically. Right now it is in a state of Schrodinger's Millions. I never claimed to have proof. I just believe him.
This were our education system has failed. I can't seriously reply to this because it is beyond ridiculous.
“I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.” ― Stanisław Lem
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" ― Derek's Law
You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically.
Wow, just...wow. You can't prove flying tea pots don't exist, therefore they do?
I think I understand how Steven Sharif made so much money at his Mom's company.
No I said I believe Steven when he says they have the 30 million. If Steven told me flying tea pots exist I wouldn't. I think we have established very few of the companies release their financial records of investors. They aren't doing anything completely out of the ordinary.
What you believe or not has nothing to do with logic as your previously said. That's where we are correcting you.
You are right to believe whatever you want and nobody has any right to censure you on that.
And I was using sarcasm to show that it is also not logical to state that the money doesn't exist. Unless you have proof, there is nothing logical about it. You are also BELIEVING the money doesn't exist just as I am BELIEVING it does. We are both relying on our belief.
What?
Unless proof exists it does not exist.
What are you talking about?
Nobody is forcing them to be transparent, that's their motto. If he made a claim then he has to back it with evidence, not us that would have to disprove the nonexistence of something that has no proof of existence.
If they don't want then good. We move on. But don't ask to anyone here to just shush about it - you lose your point there.
That is so very wrong. Are you 100% sure it does not exist because I do not currently have proof? If not then you are choosing to believe it does not exist. Therefor we are both relying on belief and not fact.
You are acting like you have some logical high ground when it isn't true. You can not have proof of something and it still exist.
Because we don't have proof of how gravity works does that mean it doesn't exist?
You keep making false arguments. Please simply link the statement from Steven where he said they have 30M funded and in the bank. Just the statement. You keep saying that Steven has stated this but have never shown where. Simply link that statement.
"The project is being funded by myself currently. This is going to be a bigger game, content-wise, than Crowfall, and our budget and funding reflects that. A core viable build that includes all the features discussed about the game will take roughly $30 million to complete. The Kickstarter and any other crowdfunding we might engage in is intended to add to that budget, for additional scope on certain systems we intend to reveal throughout development."
"This project is primarily self funded, and we’re dedicated to staying true to our vision and not being compromised. The core product can be delivered with our current capital and the crowdfunding goal. Going forward, we are dedicated to keeping our vision consistent with our philosophies and adding features whenever possible."
You can pick apart his wording all you want but he reached his crowdfunding goal so that means he can deliver the core product which he budgeted to take $30 million to complete.
Guess what he never says there? Yup... he never says he has 30M. This is exactly the quote that Bree pointed out. When he says he has 30M in the company bank come back.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Nobody is forcing them to be transparent, that's their motto. If he made a claim then he has to back it with evidence, not us that would have to disprove the nonexistence of something that has no proof of existence.
If they don't want then good. We move on. But don't ask to anyone here to just shush about it - you lose your point there.
That is so very wrong. Are you 100% sure it does not exist because I do not currently have proof? If not then you are choosing to believe it does not exist. Therefor we are both relying on belief and not fact.
You are acting like you have some logical high ground when it isn't true. You can not have proof of something and it still exist.
Because we don't have proof of how gravity works does that mean it doesn't exist?
The same applies to you though. You have no proof that he doesn't have 30 million. So right now he does have the 30 million logically. Right now it is in a state of Schrodinger's Millions. I never claimed to have proof. I just believe him.
This were our education system has failed. I can't seriously reply to this because it is beyond ridiculous.
Nice. Keep up the insults without giving a serious response. You must be desperate. Like I said regardless. We both believe different things. Not sure why you guys care so much about something you no interest in. You spend all day here in these forums.
Comments
Regardless, Intrepid isn't publicly traded.
Sad thing is that it will probably take a couple high profile disasters to bring about the needed changes.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't think there's anything wrong with the Ashes campaign so far... not like Greed Monger and Star Citizen seemed to me from day 1. Shariff should probably stop making claims like 'you could earn $10k from referring people to our game', if he really did so.
All these newblets running around clucking "MLM" seem silly.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
I feel really bad for the little guys you're kicking around that can't get money for their projects because of the falsehoods you insist upon and convince others of.
I am creating no situation. I am stating a fact and that has nothing to do with opinion. As long as there is no proof, there is no $30 million. You can chose to believe him, just like you can chose to believe in Unicorns. There is no evidence to support his claim and therefor from a scientific and logic standpoint there are no $30 million.
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer,
the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" ― Derek's Law
I think I understand how Steven Sharif made so much money at his Mom's company.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You can believe whatever you want, that doesn't mean it has any bearing on reality and you shouldn't be surprised when people question your credibility.
Scientifically the money both does and does not exist. Schrodinger's cat style. lol
Crazkanuk
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"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
You are acting like you have some logical high ground when it isn't true. You can not have proof of something and it still exist.
Because we don't have proof of how gravity works does that mean it doesn't exist?
Sure lots of consumer products companies do it, but that doesn't excuse the behavior and they are not asking for community money for a MMORPG.
The logical conclusions is that i will not reply to you any more since you have proven to be unwilling to participate in an open an honest discussion.
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer,
the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" ― Derek's Law
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"This project is primarily self funded, and we’re dedicated to staying true to our vision and not being compromised. The core product can be delivered with our current capital and the crowdfunding goal. Going forward, we are dedicated to keeping our vision consistent with our philosophies and adding features whenever possible."
You can pick apart his wording all you want but he reached his crowdfunding goal so that means he can deliver the core product which he budgeted to take $30 million to complete.
This were our education system has failed. I can't seriously reply to this because it is beyond ridiculous.
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer,
the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" ― Derek's Law
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018