I find it very interesting that so much effort has gone into attempt de-legitimize the KS project, based upon Steven Sharif himself. I do know that he and his guild in Archeage pissed off a lot of other larger guilds in that game. Makes you wonder if this isn't part of some concerted effort among some of the members of those other guilds in an attempt to defame Steven and somehow "get back" at him.
LOL. All I got to say. So, its someone elses fault? Do you work for the US government?
Who cares. Only fools back these things at this point in the crowd funding history. Let them be parted with their money...I just don't care. Hell, I been thinking of crowdfunding something myself...just for some extra cash. I will say it again. People go into a casino knowing full well the odds of losing their money. This is the same type of thing.
Its their money and doesn't bother me if they lose it...period. The more of this stuff that goes on I find myself actually cheering for the company to scam people. Fools, all of them and in my eyes, deserve what they get.
these industry veterans standing around laughing and cangratulating each other on a successful kickstarter should be illegal - they make the team at AoC look like saints.
I do not think what other people do absolves questions of what AoC may or may not be doing.
I find it very interesting that so much effort has gone into attempt de-legitimize the KS project, based upon Steven Sharif himself. I do know that he and his guild in Archeage pissed off a lot of other larger guilds in that game. Makes you wonder if this isn't part of some concerted effort among some of the members of those other guilds in an attempt to defame Steven and somehow "get back" at him.
LOL. All I got to say. So, its someone elses fault? Do you work for the US government?
Where was I shifting any sort of blame? I've seen similar posts over on the Ashes reddit around the same time the original campaign was funded. Few casual observers have made comments about how members of other guilds from ArcheAge could be making these claims.
I've seen a lot of hate for various KS projects on this forum, but the whole ponzi scheme idea being tossed around seems like a new angle.
Could just be that strong personalities get attacked by the gaming community. Chris Roberts has been the target of vast amounts of vitriol too.
Other projects have been shut down because the project owner donated to their own project so AOC shouldn't be any different, but I'm sure Kickstarter will look the other way considering the amount of money they would be denying themselves.
Is there a reason why they can't back their own projects?
It seems, given the project not only surpassed it's goal but has more than doubled it, that his backing is a mere drop in the bucket.
given the interest, and "yes" the amount of money, I think it would be a simple enough thing for kickstarter to just have him remove his paltry pledge.
Because that is how ponzi schemes operate. You make them look "profitable" to get more people to "invest" into them. It's basic scam 101 and is rightfully so not allowed on Kickstarter.
This is funny considering how kickstarter is mostly scam central. I'd never invest in anything on there because I don't trust them at all to actually deliver. I've heard more stories of people being ripped off and the game never coming out than I have of haves actually releaseing.
That said I just expect this to be wow clone #927163 anyway when it finally does come out, regardless of what the devs on kickstarter try to make you think.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
I doubt there is a rule against him backing a project from a company he manages. Even if he runs the company, he and the company are not the same entity from a legal stand point. And if other people who work for the company want to throw in their own money as well, I don't see anything wrong with that either.
It is against the rules. However, everyone does it. Most create dummy accounts or have friends/family create an account and they give money to back it. He could be front loading this with a few hundred thousand with multiple accounts, but I doubt it.
Most of the money they've raised is legit. It just would be a pain in the ass to make THOUSANDS of accounts just to pad out the numbers. Perhaps they would do it to lure bigger investors, but again they would need to show more than just general interest for many to throw down serious money. Business people like sure things, which is why getting investors in gaming is so hard. They will need real gameplay with real features to show proof of concept before the big boys will bite.
Most likely Steven threw some of his own money in so he could be a part of the community.
Other projects have been shut down because the project owner donated to their own project so AOC shouldn't be any different, but I'm sure Kickstarter will look the other way considering the amount of money they would be denying themselves.
If you seriously believe this matters and are not just trying to attack the project and generate negative publicity for them, I would suggest you take this up with Kickstarter. Not much can be done here.
I find it very interesting that so much effort has gone into attempt de-legitimize the KS project, based upon Steven Sharif himself. I do know that he and his guild in Archeage pissed off a lot of other larger guilds in that game. Makes you wonder if this isn't part of some concerted effort among some of the members of those other guilds in an attempt to defame Steven and somehow "get back" at him.
There is always a lot of butt hurt on these forums for every successful KS. It's not just this one. They call everyone who donates an idiot or a fool and come up with conspiracy theories on how the project manager has some elaborate scheme to run away with the money. It's one of the many reasons I only check this site once a week or so for the articles and usually stay away from the forums. I may have to reduce that frequency.
I doubt there is a rule against him backing a project from a company he manages. Even if he runs the company, he and the company are not the same entity from a legal stand point. And if other people who work for the company want to throw in their own money as well, I don't see anything wrong with that either.
That is what went through my mind. Because I am a Corporation, I can't be sued and lose my home, I can, however, lose my corporate assets. There is a definite separation between personal property and corporate property. For us normal folks anyway.
Until someone post or link a set of rules that says employees can not donate to their companies fundraiser, then this whole discussion is a non-point.
I do find it hilarious the lengths people are willing to stretch to defame certain projects. I guess it makes for good laughs. Asinine nonetheless, but funny.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I doubt there is a rule against him backing a project from a company he manages. Even if he runs the company, he and the company are not the same entity from a legal stand point. And if other people who work for the company want to throw in their own money as well, I don't see anything wrong with that either.
It is against the rules. However, everyone does it. Most create dummy accounts or have friends/family create an account and they give money to back it. He could be front loading this with a few hundred thousand with multiple accounts, but I doubt it.
Most of the money they've raised is legit. It just would be a pain in the ass to make THOUSANDS of accounts just to pad out the numbers. Perhaps they would do it to lure bigger investors, but again they would need to show more than just general interest for many to throw down serious money. Business people like sure things, which is why getting investors in gaming is so hard. They will need real gameplay with real features to show proof of concept before the big boys will bite.
Most likely Steven threw some of his own money in so he could be a part of the community.
Can you point to these rules?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Any idea how big his pledge was? If small no big deal, if 100KW+ then it is an issue and an attempt to paint the effort in a positive light, especially if it occurred before the project funded.
No idea but it keeps coming back to the size of his pledge compared to the overall amount. That is not my point.
They hit their goal in 12 hours. If he pledged before they hit, that is highly suspicious. If he pledged after they hit, why bother? Regardless, as a principle of the company, he is not allowed to pledge. Other campaigns have been shut down for this so why not this one?
Honestly this is grasping at straws here, I know the cool thing right now is to hate on kickstarters but seriously? I don't care if it was before or after. The issue is if they put up A LOT of the money to make it look good. If they are putting up the amount they are asking for in the first place then why bother with a kickstarter anyway? 2 mil in 2 weeks is great and I don't think this pledge changes that in any way.
And if we are talking about a $400 pledge prior to it funding or after then it really doesn't matter. So yes it is about the size of it, not the timing. Seriously though, this is a pretty non factor story at this point, put the pitchfork down.
This isn't about concerns of the game but of the company and CEO behind it. I think people need to see, especially backers, that the person using their money to lead a multi-million dollar project can't even abide by such a simple rule.
I'm sure Intrepid will see this and Steven will remove his pledge and say "I wasn't aware" so here it is for posterity's sake.
1. How do you even know if that is really Steven Sharif? You can freely change your display name to whatever you want on KS.
2. If it is him, what's the big deal? The most he could possibly donate is $10k, and all that would do is help us reach more stretch goals. And Stephen would be out the 5% cut or whatever it is that KS takes off the top.
It's kinda funny when people come here and flame KS-project's or X-Game's. Its maybe time to ban these people it makes MMORPG a toxic forum (but then again the mods would be to busy and recreating a account would be to easy).
IF you think you done wrong by a Company or KS-project go there and talk about it instead of going to every game community and flame about it it gets really old.
And if people donate money into KS projects they know there is a change they get ripped of or scammed, how stupid do you think people are to not know that them self by now?.
I doubt there is a rule against him backing a project from a company he manages. Even if he runs the company, he and the company are not the same entity from a legal stand point. And if other people who work for the company want to throw in their own money as well, I don't see anything wrong with that either.
Apparently there is. Also if one clicks on his name under collaborators it does say he's a backer. I clicked other collaborators and they weren't backers.
I was wondering if Kickstarter considered someone having a project as a "backer" by default.
But maybe he didn't know. I had to do some searching to actually find it.
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The point of the rule is obvious so it hardly matters whether its Intrepid or Sharif. Influencing the initial response to the project is highly dubious.
Is this some big scam? No, but its a pretty bad look for a guy who already has ton of baggage.
It's kinda funny when people come here and flame KS-project's or X-Game's. Its maybe time to ban these people it makes MMORPG a toxic forum (but then again the mods would be to busy and recreating a account would be to easy).
IF you think you done wrong by a Company or KS-project go there and talk about it instead of going to every game community and flame about it it gets really old.
And if people donate money into KS projects they know there is a change they get ripped of or scammed, how stupid do you think people are to not know that them self by now?.
You must be new here.
Just because I rarely post does not mean I am new here but ok.
Its maybe time to ban these people it makes MMORPG a toxic forum
Yeah discussing the merits of a project asking for community money on a gaming forum is totally out of line.
If you want a fanbot parade where any form of criticism is instantly removed go their website/discord/Twitch. All sugar and rainbows over there.
Its actually people like you who can't deal with different points of view who are toxic.
I think you missed the point here, but maybe you have to READ the OP before you react. (Its about backing your own KS-project legit or not(As KS rules stand not, but a Company is different then the person so you can discuss about that)
Criticism is ok, but flaming and trash talking a company's down just because you hate or want them to fail is not.
I doubt there is a rule against him backing a project from a company he manages. Even if he runs the company, he and the company are not the same entity from a legal stand point. And if other people who work for the company want to throw in their own money as well, I don't see anything wrong with that either.
Apparently there is. Also if one clicks on his name under collaborators it does say he's a backer. I clicked other collaborators and they weren't backers.
I was wondering if Kickstarter considered someone having a project as a "backer" by default.
But maybe he didn't know. I had to do some searching to actually find it.
Apparently? It's binary. Either employees of companies are allowed to back or not. No one has established that yet.
What makes no sense is that KS states that neither they or their financial payment partners allow this. If they don't allow it, then how did it happen? Do people here think they don't have metrics on their users? Is anyone dense enough to think they'll try and get away with letting people fund who shouldn't?
Maybe since it is a company seeking backing and in terms he is just an employee rather than a sole proprietor or individual seeking backing. That might be the loop hole. If every member of the team backed it then id see something fishy, its just one member of a team of how many?
I doubt there is a rule against him backing a project from a company he manages. Even if he runs the company, he and the company are not the same entity from a legal stand point. And if other people who work for the company want to throw in their own money as well, I don't see anything wrong with that either.
Apparently there is. Also if one clicks on his name under collaborators it does say he's a backer. I clicked other collaborators and they weren't backers.
I was wondering if Kickstarter considered someone having a project as a "backer" by default.
But maybe he didn't know. I had to do some searching to actually find it.
So far the rule is not apparent. The question still needs to be answered:
Can employees of companies make donations to said companies Kickstarter? An individual can not back their own KS, that has been established, but my question has not. Until then, this is all moot.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I doubt there is a rule against him backing a project from a company he manages. Even if he runs the company, he and the company are not the same entity from a legal stand point. And if other people who work for the company want to throw in their own money as well, I don't see anything wrong with that either.
Apparently there is. Also if one clicks on his name under collaborators it does say he's a backer. I clicked other collaborators and they weren't backers.
I was wondering if Kickstarter considered someone having a project as a "backer" by default.
But maybe he didn't know. I had to do some searching to actually find it.
So far the rule is not apparent. The question still needs to be answered:
Can employees of companies make donations to said companies Kickstarter? An individual can not back their own KS, that has been established, but my question has not. Until then, this is all moot.
He's not just an employee. He is the owner
But honestly I can't believe this topic is still going. Even I, probably the most skeptical person on these forums, thinks this is a molehill...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Other projects have been shut down because the project owner donated to their own project so AOC shouldn't be any different, but I'm sure Kickstarter will look the other way considering the amount of money they would be denying themselves.
Is there a reason why they can't back their own projects?
It seems, given the project not only surpassed it's goal but has more than doubled it, that his backing is a mere drop in the bucket.
given the interest, and "yes" the amount of money, I think it would be a simple enough thing for kickstarter to just have him remove his paltry pledge.
Because that is how ponzi schemes operate. You make them look "profitable" to get more people to "invest" into them. It's basic scam 101 and is rightfully so not allowed on Kickstarter.
Even if you want to call Kickstarter a scam, it pretty much indisputably is not a Ponzi scheme. Donors to Kickstarter are not promised to get far more money back than they put in.
Comments
I've seen a lot of hate for various KS projects on this forum, but the whole ponzi scheme idea being tossed around seems like a new angle.
Could just be that strong personalities get attacked by the gaming community. Chris Roberts has been the target of vast amounts of vitriol too.
This is funny considering how kickstarter is mostly scam central. I'd never invest in anything on there because I don't trust them at all to actually deliver. I've heard more stories of people being ripped off and the game never coming out than I have of haves actually releaseing.
That said I just expect this to be wow clone #927163 anyway when it finally does come out, regardless of what the devs on kickstarter try to make you think.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Most of the money they've raised is legit. It just would be a pain in the ass to make THOUSANDS of accounts just to pad out the numbers. Perhaps they would do it to lure bigger investors, but again they would need to show more than just general interest for many to throw down serious money. Business people like sure things, which is why getting investors in gaming is so hard. They will need real gameplay with real features to show proof of concept before the big boys will bite.
Most likely Steven threw some of his own money in so he could be a part of the community.
There is always a lot of butt hurt on these forums for every successful KS. It's not just this one. They call everyone who donates an idiot or a fool and come up with conspiracy theories on how the project manager has some elaborate scheme to run away with the money. It's one of the many reasons I only check this site once a week or so for the articles and usually stay away from the forums. I may have to reduce that frequency.
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Until someone post or link a set of rules that says employees can not donate to their companies fundraiser, then this whole discussion is a non-point.
I do find it hilarious the lengths people are willing to stretch to defame certain projects. I guess it makes for good laughs. Asinine nonetheless, but funny.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Honestly this is grasping at straws here, I know the cool thing right now is to hate on kickstarters but seriously? I don't care if it was before or after. The issue is if they put up A LOT of the money to make it look good. If they are putting up the amount they are asking for in the first place then why bother with a kickstarter anyway? 2 mil in 2 weeks is great and I don't think this pledge changes that in any way.
And if we are talking about a $400 pledge prior to it funding or after then it really doesn't matter. So yes it is about the size of it, not the timing. Seriously though, this is a pretty non factor story at this point, put the pitchfork down.
TL;DR Stahp. No. Seriously. STAHP
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2. If it is him, what's the big deal? The most he could possibly donate is $10k, and all that would do is help us reach more stretch goals. And Stephen would be out the 5% cut or whatever it is that KS takes off the top.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Its maybe time to ban these people it makes MMORPG a toxic forum (but then again the mods would be to busy and recreating a account would be to easy).
IF you think you done wrong by a Company or KS-project go there and talk about it instead of going to every game community and flame about it it gets really old.
And if people donate money into KS projects they know there is a change they get ripped of or scammed, how stupid do you think people are to not know that them self by now?.
Apparently there is. Also if one clicks on his name under collaborators it does say he's a backer. I clicked other collaborators and they weren't backers.
I was wondering if Kickstarter considered someone having a project as a "backer" by default.
But maybe he didn't know. I had to do some searching to actually find it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Is this some big scam? No, but its a pretty bad look for a guy who already has ton of baggage.
If you want a fanbot parade where any form of criticism is instantly removed go their website/discord/Twitch. All sugar and rainbows over there.
Its actually people like you who can't deal with different points of view who are toxic.
(Its about backing your own KS-project legit or not(As KS rules stand not, but a Company is different then the person so you can discuss about that)
Criticism is ok, but flaming and trash talking a company's down just because you hate or want them to fail is not.
Maybe since it is a company seeking backing and in terms he is just an employee rather than a sole proprietor or individual seeking backing. That might be the loop hole. If every member of the team backed it then id see something fishy, its just one member of a team of how many?
Can employees of companies make donations to said companies Kickstarter? An individual can not back their own KS, that has been established, but my question has not. Until then, this is all moot.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
But honestly I can't believe this topic is still going. Even I, probably the most skeptical person on these forums, thinks this is a molehill...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018