Game footage from today's Q&A on livestream.

Ponzini

The forums here seem to be mostly negative on AoC. Many people believe the game to be a scam. Today on the livestream they showed another gameplay video which they seem to do mostly every stream now. It shows them walking around a pretty vast area with some pretty obvious original models and art unless someone could prove otherwise. I think it proves that they have put a lot of work into the game already. 

Here is the link to the gameplay video part of the stream: 

Coupled with the fact we have proof they leased a large office building and we know they have quite a few employees I don't think there is any question that this could be a scam at this point. They have probably spent well over 2 million already so the money from kickstarter would be irrelevant.

It is still possible they could fail at making this game but at least we know they are giving it a legit attempt.

Wellspring

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

Distopia

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

So now we're pretending all the hoopla about MLM ties has not been about the possibility this is a scam?

Ponzini

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

One of the top posts in this forums is comparing this game to Greedmonger which was a total scam. Go ahead and read some of those comments.

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

So now we're pretending all the hoopla about MLM ties have not been about the possibility this is a scam?

Some people think like that. Others don't. Let's avoid generalization, please.

There is a locked tier of goals on kickstarter (the "stock market")and the description sounds weird to me, because (someone correct me but I'm pretty sure) they said those features would be ingame as core mechanics.

If there is info about it could someone enlighten me? Or just give me a link to something about that?

Yes not everyone thinks it was a scam. Nobody is saying that. I just want to put the whole "scam" thing to bed and focus on if they can or can not make the project when we can tell they are giving it their best shot. 

As far as the stock market feature I haven't seen anything saying it would be a core feature of the game. I think you may be confusing the node mechanic with the stock market one. 

The stock market feature would allow you to invest in the nodes development and also in guilds and such. That way you have some extra involvement which makes you care if a city or guild does well. They wanted to add a stretch goal that would further the economic part of the game. Personally I don't care for this stretch goal but some people do. I doubt they will reach 3 million anyways. 

LackingMMO

Looks nice for pre alpha. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Distopia

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

So now we're pretending all the hoopla about MLM ties have not been about the possibility this is a scam?

Some people think like that. Others don't. Let's avoid generalization, please.

I didn't say all the hoopla about Ashes . I said about MLM ties. Which is fairly specific to a certain issue.  I didn't say even all of those who have addressed that, think it is a scam. Hence purposefully using the world possibility. . That's about the best way I could think of to avoid outright generalizations. So I agree. We shouldn't go there. 

PottedPlant22

Distopia said:

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

So now we're pretending all the hoopla about MLM ties have not been about the possibility this is a scam?

Some people think like that. Others don't. Let's avoid generalization, please.

I didn't say all the hoopla about Ashes . I said about MLM ties. Which is fairly specific to a certain issue.  I didn't say even all of those who have addressed that, think it is a scam. Hence purposefully using the world possibility.

You said 'all the hoopla,' not 'some of the hoopla.'  Nice try tho.

BTW- a big factor with the MLM deals with peoples' opinion of how ethical it is for someone to be using that money to fund the game - scam or not.

Hatefull

Ponzini said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

One of the top posts in this forums is comparing this game to Greedmonger which was a total scam. Go ahead and read some of those comments.

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

So now we're pretending all the hoopla about MLM ties have not been about the possibility this is a scam?

Some people think like that. Others don't. Let's avoid generalization, please.

There is a locked tier of goals on kickstarter (the "stock market")and the description sounds weird to me, because (someone correct me but I'm pretty sure) they said those features would be ingame as core mechanics.

If there is info about it could someone enlighten me? Or just give me a link to something about that?

Yes not everyone thinks it was a scam. Nobody is saying that. I just want to put the whole "scam" thing to bed and focus on if they can or can not make the project when we can tell they are giving it their best shot. 

As far as the stock market feature I haven't seen anything saying it would be a core feature of the game. I think you may be confusing the node mechanic with the stock market one. 

The stock market feature would allow you to invest in the nodes development and also in guilds and such. That way you have some extra involvement which makes you care if a city or guild does well. They wanted to add a stretch goal that would further the economic part of the game. Personally I don't care for this stretch goal but some people do. I doubt they will reach 3 million anyways. 

Way to derail your own thread and turn it into more negativity about the game I suppose you support? Not sure at this point. 

Anyway, I did enjoy the pre-alpha footage, thanks for posting THAT.

Ponzini

Hatefull said:

Ponzini said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

One of the top posts in this forums is comparing this game to Greedmonger which was a total scam. Go ahead and read some of those comments.

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

So now we're pretending all the hoopla about MLM ties have not been about the possibility this is a scam?

Some people think like that. Others don't. Let's avoid generalization, please.

There is a locked tier of goals on kickstarter (the "stock market")and the description sounds weird to me, because (someone correct me but I'm pretty sure) they said those features would be ingame as core mechanics.

If there is info about it could someone enlighten me? Or just give me a link to something about that?

Yes not everyone thinks it was a scam. Nobody is saying that. I just want to put the whole "scam" thing to bed and focus on if they can or can not make the project when we can tell they are giving it their best shot. 

As far as the stock market feature I haven't seen anything saying it would be a core feature of the game. I think you may be confusing the node mechanic with the stock market one. 

The stock market feature would allow you to invest in the nodes development and also in guilds and such. That way you have some extra involvement which makes you care if a city or guild does well. They wanted to add a stretch goal that would further the economic part of the game. Personally I don't care for this stretch goal but some people do. I doubt they will reach 3 million anyways. 

Way to derail your own thread and turn it into more negativity about the game I suppose you support? Not sure at this point. 

Anyway, I did enjoy the pre-alpha footage, thanks for posting THAT.

Explain to me what I said negative about the game? The only thing I said was that I don't care for the stock market kickstarter goal. I even acknowledged other people would be into that kind of thing though. As for me doubting they will reach 3 million that is just my guess looking at the current rate. I hope it makes as much as it can but I DOUBT it will get that high.

I've been one of the main defenders of the game on this forum. Please go troll somewhere else.

PottedPlant22

Hatefull said:

Way to derail your own thread and turn it into more negativity about the game I suppose you support? Not sure at this point. 

Classic.

Ponzini

PottedPlant22 said:

Distopia said:

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

So now we're pretending all the hoopla about MLM ties have not been about the possibility this is a scam?

Some people think like that. Others don't. Let's avoid generalization, please.

I didn't say all the hoopla about Ashes . I said about MLM ties. Which is fairly specific to a certain issue.  I didn't say even all of those who have addressed that, think it is a scam. Hence purposefully using the world possibility.

You said 'all the hoopla,' not 'some of the hoopla.'  Nice try tho.

BTW- a big factor with the MLM deals with peoples' opinion of how ethical it is for someone to be using that money to fund the game - scam or not.

He did say the possibility of a scam though. So lets just relax. 

True it could be unethical using MLM money to fund the game. I don't know enough about his company or if they screw people over. I don't think MLM is inherently bad. From what I understand ones like AVON are okay. 

Either way I would rather that money go towards creating a great game than just be used to buy some huge mansion for himself or something. Idk...

PottedPlant22

Ponzini said:

I don't think MLM is inherently bad. From what I understand ones like AVON are okay. 

Yeah.  That's where some people differ the most I believe.  Some believe that the current MLM model is always bad by the very nature of what MLM is, others feel that it depends on what's being sold, level of investment, etc.

Here's one take on the recent evolution of the traditionally sound company like Avon.
https://pyramidschemealert.org/has-mlm-corrupted-avon/

Distopia

PottedPlant22 said:

Distopia said:

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

So now we're pretending all the hoopla about MLM ties have not been about the possibility this is a scam?

Some people think like that. Others don't. Let's avoid generalization, please.

I didn't say all the hoopla about Ashes . I said about MLM ties. Which is fairly specific to a certain issue.  I didn't say even all of those who have addressed that, think it is a scam. Hence purposefully using the world possibility.

You said 'all the hoopla,' not 'some of the hoopla.'  Nice try tho.

BTW- a big factor with the MLM deals with peoples' opinion of how ethical it is for someone to be using that money to fund the game - scam or not.

I said all the hoopla is about the "possibility",  as that seemed the most logical connection, "hoopla" in this case being the many times it's been brought up and debated by both sides. Which most of those discussions on MLM have focused on the topic of scamming in general. Not hard to see why I'd make that connection... But nice try yourself. 

lahnmir

Wow, this thread is going nowhere fast 

Thanks for the video though.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Phry

PottedPlant22 said:

Ponzini said:

I don't think MLM is inherently bad. From what I understand ones like AVON are okay. 

Yeah.  That's where some people differ the most I believe.  Some believe that the current MLM model is always bad by the very nature of what MLM is, others feel that it depends on what's being sold, level of investment, etc.

Here's one take on the recent evolution of the traditionally sound company like Avon.
https://pyramidschemealert.org/has-mlm-corrupted-avon/

So basically MLM, or multi level marketing is just a form of pyramid selling, what happened to Avon is bad, i think you would have to have a particularly blinkered view not to see MLM as being a hugely negative factor. If anything that particular example would reinforce most peoples decision to avoid companies that actively engage in MLM, just to be on the safe side.

Distopia

Phry said:

PottedPlant22 said:

Ponzini said:

I don't think MLM is inherently bad. From what I understand ones like AVON are okay. 

Yeah.  That's where some people differ the most I believe.  Some believe that the current MLM model is always bad by the very nature of what MLM is, others feel that it depends on what's being sold, level of investment, etc.

Here's one take on the recent evolution of the traditionally sound company like Avon.
https://pyramidschemealert.org/has-mlm-corrupted-avon/

So basically MLM, or multi level marketing is just a form of pyramid selling, what happened to Avon is bad, i think you would have to have a particularly blinkered view not to see MLM as being a hugely negative factor. If anything that particular example would reinforce most peoples decision to avoid companies that actively engage in MLM, just to be on the safe side.

There are so many of these products out there. From sex toys to cookware, to fingernail decals. Negative or not it doesn't seem like many care. Or even know what's behind the "party" they're attending. 

Galadourn

The footage looked really nice. Not just for an alpha, there are games that are released looking worse than this  (don't know how stable the game is though). Unreal engine really creates the perfect sense of 'being in the game', compared to other graphics engines (no names).
Now, if they could give combat that is similar to Neverwinter, I think it would make for a perfect bundle.

PottedPlant22

Phry said:

PottedPlant22 said:

Ponzini said:

I don't think MLM is inherently bad. From what I understand ones like AVON are okay. 

Yeah.  That's where some people differ the most I believe.  Some believe that the current MLM model is always bad by the very nature of what MLM is, others feel that it depends on what's being sold, level of investment, etc.

Here's one take on the recent evolution of the traditionally sound company like Avon.
https://pyramidschemealert.org/has-mlm-corrupted-avon/

So basically MLM, or multi level marketing is just a form of pyramid selling, what happened to Avon is bad, i think you would have to have a particularly blinkered view not to see MLM as being a hugely negative factor. If anything that particular example would reinforce most peoples decision to avoid companies that actively engage in MLM, just to be on the safe side.

Steven, the creative director and face of Ashes, says his was one of the good ones which concerned many people on reddit when he said it.

Bestinna

game still hasn't showed anything new and still looks like literal shit

Gdemami

Phry said:

So basically MLM, or multi level marketing is just a form of pyramid selling

No, it is not. People are just being stupid...

PottedPlant22

Distopia said:

PottedPlant22 said:

Distopia said:

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

So now we're pretending all the hoopla about MLM ties have not been about the possibility this is a scam?

Some people think like that. Others don't. Let's avoid generalization, please.

I didn't say all the hoopla about Ashes . I said about MLM ties. Which is fairly specific to a certain issue.  I didn't say even all of those who have addressed that, think it is a scam. Hence purposefully using the world possibility.

You said 'all the hoopla,' not 'some of the hoopla.'  Nice try tho.

BTW- a big factor with the MLM deals with peoples' opinion of how ethical it is for someone to be using that money to fund the game - scam or not.

I said all the hoopla is about the "possibility",  as that seemed the most logical connection, "hoopla" in this case being the many times it's been brought up and debated by both sides. Which most of those discussions on MLM have focused on the topic of scamming in general. Not hard to see why I'd make that connection... But nice try yourself. 

Your rhetorical question says by the way you wrote it that EVERYONE that had an issue with MLM (all the hoopla) raised the possibility that Ashes was a scam.  

@Nyctelios replied to that.
      Some people think like that. Others don't. Let's avoid generalization, please.

PottedPlant22

Gdemami said:

Phry said:

So basically MLM, or multi level marketing is just a form of pyramid selling

No, it is not. People are just being stupid...

So what happens to the people at the bottom of the MLM selling strategy?

Gdemami

PottedPlant22 said:

So what happens to the people at the bottom of the MLM selling strategy?

I guess 'the bottom of the MLM selling strategy' is some of your assumptions about what MLM is...

People are lumping several terms together - pyramid scheme, ponzi scheme and MLM.

Pyramid scheme is the one that promise earnings on continuous recruitment rather than any sales - ie. chain letters.

Ponzi scheme on the other hand relies on investments from recruited people rather than the growth of recruited pool.

MLM just incetives recruitment, it is a refferal marketing program, sales are still how money are made under that scheme - ie. what AoCR is doing, you get commision from sales of your referrals.



MLM is same thing as any MMO referral program - refer a friend and if they spent
some money, ie. subscribe or buy the game, you get some reward.

ConstantineMerus

Ponzini said:

The forums here seem to be mostly negative on AoC. Many people believe the game to be a scam. Today on the livestream they showed another gameplay video which they seem to do mostly every stream now. It shows them walking around a pretty vast area with some pretty obvious original models and art unless someone could prove otherwise. I think it proves that they have put a lot of work into the game already. 

Here is the link to the gameplay video part of the stream: 

Coupled with the fact we have proof they leased a large office building and we know they have quite a few employees I don't think there is any question that this could be a scam at this point. They have probably spent well over 2 million already so the money from kickstarter would be irrelevant.

It is still possible they could fail at making this game but at least we know they are giving it a legit attempt.

Don't worry about it mate. Many people here believe everything to be a scam, even this site itself. 

lahnmir

Ponzini said:

PottedPlant22 said:

Distopia said:

Nyctelios said:

Distopia said:

Wellspring said:

The negativity has never been about if the KS was a scam. It's always been about if they will fail at making the game. 

So now we're pretending all the hoopla about MLM ties have not been about the possibility this is a scam?

Some people think like that. Others don't. Let's avoid generalization, please.

I didn't say all the hoopla about Ashes . I said about MLM ties. Which is fairly specific to a certain issue.  I didn't say even all of those who have addressed that, think it is a scam. Hence purposefully using the world possibility.

You said 'all the hoopla,' not 'some of the hoopla.'  Nice try tho.

BTW- a big factor with the MLM deals with peoples' opinion of how ethical it is for someone to be using that money to fund the game - scam or not.

He did say the possibility of a scam though. So lets just relax. 

True it could be unethical using MLM money to fund the game. I don't know enough about his company or if they screw people over. I don't think MLM is inherently bad. From what I understand ones like AVON are okay. 

Either way I would rather that money go towards creating a great game than just be used to buy some huge mansion for himself or something. Idk...

Then again, your name actually STARTS with ponzi..... Just think about that, how trustworthy does that make you?

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Shaigh

Nice environment, some walking npc, not much of a combat model. I have seen plenty of kickstarters that have shown less. However, kingdom come: deliverance showed a lot of their game engine back in january 2014, still haven't reached release but hopefully its getting there this year.

This game has a big scope, like all mmorpg and its not unreasonable to think its going to take 5 years in total. If we take them on their word that means 4 years until release.

I don't feel like putting money into a game project that I won't get to play until summer 2021.