to the OP, it's not a question of thinking if it's a "scam" or not, but rather a question of "Is it really worth it?" What exactly does it offer more over the 700+ MMO releases we got up to now? How will it be different from the 100 or so MMO's that will be released from now to 5 years down the road? Short answer : It offers nothing new to the table. I also saw the game play trailer you linked, and I'm sorry, the graphics and "environment" are pretty much the same than 50+ MMO's on the market. I'll never understand why people "hype" so much on a game being worked on that resembles at least 100 MMO's currently on the market that they can enjoy right now?
Take Destiny 2 for example, do you really think Activision/Bungie are releasing Destiny 2 for the fun of it? Of course they aren't, since Destiny is way more expendable than WoW, they want to see the markets reaction by releasing a sequel to a "grindy" game. Now there are 2 scenarios to come out of this, 1- If Destiny 2 is a major flop because players don't feel like starting a new game from scratch again within pretty much the same context as the first game (because let's face it, WoW 2 will be pretty much the same thing as WoW 1 but with today's graphical technology), then we won't be seeing a "WoW 2" for another decade. 2- If Destiny 2 is a major success and keeps growing 12 months after release, then that's your first hint that we will be seeing a "WoW 2" in a few years. Unlike Destiny 1, Destiny 2 will be the fraction of the cost since pretty much everything is done already with Destiny 1, just a few make overs and scenery changes here and there, and voila you got yourself a brand new "recycled" 50-80$ game to play in (price varies due to currency and countries). But since Acti/Bungie aren't stupid, to maximize Destiny 2's success they are releasing it on PC also, knowing full well that they left a big fat gold pile behind by not releasing Destiny 1 on PC to begin with. So we'll see by the end of the year how Destiny 2 fares, I'm guessing it'll be a major success because of the PC audience that barely went toward consoles to play Destiny 1. But the real number to look at will be the console numbers.
It should become painfully obvious by now that game play trailers mean absolutely nothing anymore, watch Ashes, Crowfall, Pantheon (which by the way looks painfully sloooooow), or any other new title for that matter, they bring nothing new. If we were still getting 1-2 MMO releases per year, then OK, I'd be more enthusiastic, but the fact is, we're getting 20+ releases a year that will flush away those highly "hyped" games in a matter of weeks upon release. The same people here that are posting on these forums about "HOW AWESOME" Ashes, Crowfall, Pantheon will be, will be the first people to ditch them 2 months later to support a "new" release. So again, sorry if I never look like a person in a good mood when posting on these forums.
You aren't getting it, sorry. I don't really feel like going over this again but I will try:
The Stock Exchange will allow you to INVEST GOLD into the development of nodes(as in towns), guilds, and social organizations (thieves guild, scholar's academy, etc.). So the better they do the more return in your investment you will get.
ALSO the goal will allow you to view metrics for commodities and trade routes so you can see the prices of certain goods and what goods are going where from town to town.
Caravans, regional markets, etc were already in the game and has nothing to do with the stock exchange. Maybe someone else can explain this to you better? Go to the discord and ask away. I tried my best.
That's not what the goal says. That's what you claim.
"There are three primary points: nodes, player created communities like guilds, and third are social organizations not owned by anyone, but that players can advance in. It’s not like a real world with smartpads buying and selling purchase orders. This is representative of a medieval high fantasy setting. Around the 4th or 5th tier, there would be an opportunity for player run governments to open marketplaces. That may then constitute a number of shares players can purchase from that node that reflects its progress along metrics for advancement, trades, resources, quest lines, and it’s progression against other nodes, citizen progression, purchases, real estate/freeholds, they’re all measure and put against stock value held by players. Guilds will require a headquarters, like a player declares citizenship. Patron guilds will also be on the indexes (patrons for a node) and can have shares. As long as they’re headquartered in that node. Progression of social organization, their dominance and movement through the world, quest, bosses, items, all those unlocks reflect metrics for their shareholders. We wanted an in-depth system that gave another avenue for players to participate in – become an investor in the various systems and mechanics. We’re very aware of investments that require gold and metrics, there’s a huge chance for players to game the system. We’ll use testing and other MMOs to create better tools. I am one of those players doing backflips about this economic system. Even players that can identify trends, the metrics give you a window into what the server is doing which is great for players and devs. EVE handles many of those problems intelligently. Even if I don’t participate, I can see how my node is doing. The system is self-contained and is not creating new revenue into the system. It will apply to which gold sinks are available. Also, when sieges are declared, certain functionality stops during the declaration period. These markets that distribute shares will be closed when a declaration occurs. There could be sabotage to prevent a node from making great progress. It’s all about the feedback loops between systems. Reflecting on your performance in your micro/macro communities can make you a target of rival communities."
to the OP, it's not a question of thinking if it's a "scam" or not, but rather a question of "Is it really worth it?" What exactly does it offer more over the 700+ MMO releases we got up to now? How will it be different from the 100 or so MMO's that will be released from now to 5 years down the road? Short answer : It offers nothing new to the table. I also saw the game play trailer you linked, and I'm sorry, the graphics and "environment" are pretty much the same than 50+ MMO's on the market. I'll never understand why people "hype" so much on a game being worked on that resembles at least 100 MMO's currently on the market that they can enjoy right now?
Take Destiny 2 for example, do you really think Activision/Bungie are releasing Destiny 2 for the fun of it? Of course they aren't, since Destiny is way more expendable than WoW, they want to see the markets reaction by releasing a sequel to a "grindy" game. Now there are 2 scenarios to come out of this, 1- If Destiny 2 is a major flop because players don't feel like starting a new game from scratch again within pretty much the same context as the first game (because let's face it, WoW 2 will be pretty much the same thing as WoW 1 but with today's graphical technology), then we won't be seeing a "WoW 2" for another decade. 2- If Destiny 2 is a major success and keeps growing 12 months after release, then that's your first hint that we will be seeing a "WoW 2" in a few years. Unlike Destiny 1, Destiny 2 will be the fraction of the cost since pretty much everything is done already with Destiny 1, just a few make overs and scenery changes here and there, and voila you got yourself a brand new "recycled" 50-80$ game to play in (price varies due to currency and countries). But since Acti/Bungie aren't stupid, to maximize Destiny 2's success they are releasing it on PC also, knowing full well that they left a big fat gold pile behind by not releasing Destiny 1 on PC to begin with. So we'll see by the end of the year how Destiny 2 fares, I'm guessing it'll be a major success because of the PC audience that barely went toward consoles to play Destiny 1. But the real number to look at will be the console numbers.
It should become painfully obvious by now that game play trailers mean absolutely nothing anymore, watch Ashes, Crowfall, Pantheon (which by the way looks painfully sloooooow), or any other new title for that matter, they bring nothing new. If we were still getting 1-2 MMO releases per year, then OK, I'd be more enthusiastic, but the fact is, we're getting 20+ releases a year that will flush away those highly "hyped" games in a matter of weeks upon release. The same people here that are posting on these forums about "HOW AWESOME" Ashes, Crowfall, Pantheon will be, will be the first people to ditch them 2 months later to support a "new" release. So again, sorry if I never look like a person in a good mood when posting on these forums.
That is the nature of kickstarter. People ask themselves if it is worth it an pledge if they like the concept. Just because you may not be interested doesn't mean others aren't.
Also I don't see any other western looking MMOs with their node system and no pay 2 win policy.
I think the choices of MMOs are really weak right now. Ashes is my type of game, so I invested in it.
Every stream they talked about the economic system.
So much so for your "I know everything said until now".
You seem to be focusing on the caravans which sounds a lot like what they have in BDO in a way, vs what that stretch goal is IE a stock market system. Where folks can invest in such things. Which I'd assume means other folks enterprises.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Then why do packages without Alpa access show Dec 2018 for delivery?
From KS's FAQ....."Estimated delivery dates are not firm ship dates". To paraphrase the rest of the fine print on it, it all basically says, many projects are in their early stages, delivery dates can go over due to under estimation, or difficulties in development.
This line seems rather pertinent as well... "Backing a project is a lot different than simply ordering a product online"
Again... nobody says it's a FIRM SHIP DATE... but if it says Dec 2018 for delivery and you KNOW it's not going to be Dec 2018 for delivery but instead maybe 2020... WTF!?!?!
An Estimated delivery date should be a good faith estimate. This would appear to be FAR from that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Then why do packages without Alpa access show Dec 2018 for delivery?
From KS's FAQ....."Estimated delivery dates are not firm ship dates". To paraphrase the rest of the fine print on it, it all basically says, many projects are in their early stages, delivery dates can go over due to under estimation, or difficulties in development.
This line seems rather pertinent as well... "Backing a project is a lot different than simply ordering a product online"
You would think someone that touts all the research they do and facts they gather would know something so simple and true across ALL Kickstarter projects. I wonder why someone with no agenda (self-proclaimed again) would say something so very leading in a discussion like this.
See my post above. It's not a firm date but should be a good faith estimate. Saying Dec 2018 on the page selling the stuff but then 2020 in other places is fucking ridiculous. If you can't see that.. well that's on YOU. Maybe if you focused a bit less on other posters motives and more on the content you wouldn't have these issues.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Again... nobody says it's a FIRM SHIP DATE... but if it says Dec 2018 for delivery and you KNOW it's not going to be Dec 2018 for delivery but instead maybe 2020... WTF!?!?!
An Estimated delivery date should be a good faith estimate. This would appear to be FAR from that.
Well you have to consider the gaming standards of today. I'd assume they plan to have a testing product done by then, with a full release sometime before 2020. Which even KS tells folks all of that can change.
You know why they go with the lowball number. We've discussed this before. So what's with the caps.. Yell at them not us...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What people think they should do or should interpret things doesn't really mean anything. It's already been pointed out that closed alpha will be delivered in 2018. So there's the delivery, not the ship date. Again, strange that someone with no agenda would twist that around.
OK.. one more time.
Here is the Kickstarter for the basic pledge. Do you see an alpha listed there? Looking at this, honestly... when would you expect to have access to the game if you didn't know it was Ashes of Creation and you were just a normal consumer?
If you in any way shape or form read that to mean anything other than you will be playing in 2018... thats on YOU.
What people think they should do or should interpret things doesn't really mean anything. It's already been pointed out that closed alpha will be delivered in 2018. So there's the delivery, not the ship date. Again, strange that someone with no agenda would twist that around.
OK.. one more time.
Here is the Kickstarter for the basic pledge. Do you see an alpha listed there? Looking at this, honestly... when would you expect to have access to the game if you didn't know it was Ashes of Creation and you were just a normal consumer?
If you in any way shape or form read that to mean anything other than you will be playing in 2018... thats on YOU.
ESITMATED.... again read the fine print on that key word.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What people think they should do or should interpret things doesn't really mean anything. It's already been pointed out that closed alpha will be delivered in 2018. So there's the delivery, not the ship date. Again, strange that someone with no agenda would twist that around.
OK.. one more time.
Here is the Kickstarter for the basic pledge. Do you see an alpha listed there? Looking at this, honestly... when would you expect to have access to the game if you didn't know it was Ashes of Creation and you were just a normal consumer?
If you in any way shape or form read that to mean anything other than you will be playing in 2018... thats on YOU.
ESITMATED....
But it's not ESTIMATED if it's known to be untrue now is it? That's my point. If they think there's a legitimate chance that they release Dec 2018.. OK, but the links that Ponzi listed above clearly show they they are privately saying release will happen much, much later. IMHO that is simply either ineptitude by listing the wrong date.. or blatant bullshit. There's a word for saying one thing when selling you something while knowing it to be false.. it's 5 letters and starts with F....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This is mostly a fight of semantics. The alpha will be released in 2018. It says so in the FAQ and says Beta would be later. Schedule subject to change. Doesn't mention release.
Idk. Maybe a bit misleading to some but oh well. I don't think there was anything malicious behind it.
What people think they should do or should interpret things doesn't really mean anything. It's already been pointed out that closed alpha will be delivered in 2018. So there's the delivery, not the ship date. Again, strange that someone with no agenda would twist that around.
OK.. one more time.
Here is the Kickstarter for the basic pledge. Do you see an alpha listed there? Looking at this, honestly... when would you expect to have access to the game if you didn't know it was Ashes of Creation and you were just a normal consumer?
If you in any way shape or form read that to mean anything other than you will be playing in 2018... thats on YOU.
ESITMATED....
But it's not ESTIMATED if it's known to be untrue now is it? That's my point. If they think there's a legitimate chance that they release Dec 2018.. OK, but the links that Ponzi listed above clearly show they they are privately saying release will happen much, much later. IMHO that is simply either ineptitude by listing the wrong date.. or blatant bullshit. There's a word for saying one thing when selling you something while knowing it to be false.. it's 5 letters and starts with F....
They do it because it's easier to sell it that way, they're covered in the user agreement to do so, and the audience is warned to know not to look at any date as a set thing (if they bother to look at what they're getting into). Their bases are covered. You know all of this though, which makes this entire subject pointless.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I might have made a different decision had I cherry picked one piece of
information off of the site and then went off on some wild tangent with
it.
Right... the Estimated Delivery Date on the order page is really "cherry picking" and saying that should be a good faith estimate is really going "off on some wild tangent" as opposed to:
Read...the rest of the Kickstarter page and their website.
Then use all of that information to ascertain that alpha would be available in 2018 and further phases would open up after that.
Then think for a while on what the team wants to build, the features they want in their game, the experience of different team members (including the business experience), and decide that was something I was interested in participating in.
Let's just leave it right there in plain site with no further discussion
Now back to the topic at hand.. when is the next livestream?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You can find that information on their Discord or forums. That's where some really good info lives.
Everyone is so worried about engines, estimated delivery dates, MLM and if pedigrees are in order that they're missing the interesting stuff like summoners and class mechanics.
This is what happens when you ask for money years before a games is released. All the "interesting stuff like summoners and class mechanics" are meaningless if the game doesn't ship in a functional form, I think once (if) a few Kickstarter MMORPGs successfully release... these questions will become less relevant. In today's environment when games are literally going on 3 years delayed (and likely much longer) I think asking such questions are quite topical, and this is actually the appropriate time to do so.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think if anything, all this conversation proves is just how skeptical and or clinging to hope players have become.
These conversations are essentially the same as those we've always had here in my eyes, at least conversations surrounding "upcoming" games. The talking points are just of a different variety. Yet they have always been a matter of the skeptic vs the hopeful.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Take Destiny 2 for example, do you really think Activision/Bungie are releasing Destiny 2 for the fun of it? Of course they aren't, since Destiny is way more expendable than WoW, they want to see the markets reaction by releasing a sequel to a "grindy" game. Now there are 2 scenarios to come out of this, 1- If Destiny 2 is a major flop because players don't feel like starting a new game from scratch again within pretty much the same context as the first game (because let's face it, WoW 2 will be pretty much the same thing as WoW 1 but with today's graphical technology), then we won't be seeing a "WoW 2" for another decade. 2- If Destiny 2 is a major success and keeps growing 12 months after release, then that's your first hint that we will be seeing a "WoW 2" in a few years. Unlike Destiny 1, Destiny 2 will be the fraction of the cost since pretty much everything is done already with Destiny 1, just a few make overs and scenery changes here and there, and voila you got yourself a brand new "recycled" 50-80$ game to play in (price varies due to currency and countries). But since Acti/Bungie aren't stupid, to maximize Destiny 2's success they are releasing it on PC also, knowing full well that they left a big fat gold pile behind by not releasing Destiny 1 on PC to begin with. So we'll see by the end of the year how Destiny 2 fares, I'm guessing it'll be a major success because of the PC audience that barely went toward consoles to play Destiny 1. But the real number to look at will be the console numbers.
It should become painfully obvious by now that game play trailers mean absolutely nothing anymore, watch Ashes, Crowfall, Pantheon (which by the way looks painfully sloooooow), or any other new title for that matter, they bring nothing new. If we were still getting 1-2 MMO releases per year, then OK, I'd be more enthusiastic, but the fact is, we're getting 20+ releases a year that will flush away those highly "hyped" games in a matter of weeks upon release. The same people here that are posting on these forums about "HOW AWESOME" Ashes, Crowfall, Pantheon will be, will be the first people to ditch them 2 months later to support a "new" release. So again, sorry if I never look like a person in a good mood when posting on these forums.
From Wednesday's live Q&A:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G4fOb6HxBWTIed_cj803Dlo8uLnNgpupVPFOb8eHrCY/edit#heading=h.3dy6vkm
"There are three primary points: nodes, player created communities like guilds, and third are social organizations not owned by anyone, but that players can advance in. It’s not like a real world with smartpads buying and selling purchase orders. This is representative of a medieval high fantasy setting. Around the 4th or 5th tier, there would be an opportunity for player run governments to open marketplaces. That may then constitute a number of shares players can purchase from that node that reflects its progress along metrics for advancement, trades, resources, quest lines, and it’s progression against other nodes, citizen progression, purchases, real estate/freeholds, they’re all measure and put against stock value held by players. Guilds will require a headquarters, like a player declares citizenship. Patron guilds will also be on the indexes (patrons for a node) and can have shares. As long as they’re headquartered in that node. Progression of social organization, their dominance and movement through the world, quest, bosses, items, all those unlocks reflect metrics for their shareholders. We wanted an in-depth system that gave another avenue for players to participate in – become an investor in the various systems and mechanics. We’re very aware of investments that require gold and metrics, there’s a huge chance for players to game the system. We’ll use testing and other MMOs to create better tools. I am one of those players doing backflips about this economic system. Even players that can identify trends, the metrics give you a window into what the server is doing which is great for players and devs. EVE handles many of those problems intelligently. Even if I don’t participate, I can see how my node is doing. The system is self-contained and is not creating new revenue into the system. It will apply to which gold sinks are available. Also, when sieges are declared, certain functionality stops during the declaration period. These markets that distribute shares will be closed when a declaration occurs. There could be sabotage to prevent a node from making great progress. It’s all about the feedback loops between systems. Reflecting on your performance in your micro/macro communities can make you a target of rival communities."
Also I don't see any other western looking MMOs with their node system and no pay 2 win policy.
I think the choices of MMOs are really weak right now. Ashes is my type of game, so I invested in it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
An Estimated delivery date should be a good faith estimate. This would appear to be FAR from that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You know why they go with the lowball number. We've discussed this before. So what's with the caps.. Yell at them not us...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Here is the Kickstarter for the basic pledge. Do you see an alpha listed there? Looking at this, honestly... when would you expect to have access to the game if you didn't know it was Ashes of Creation and you were just a normal consumer?
If you in any way shape or form read that to mean anything other than you will be playing in 2018... thats on YOU.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Idk. Maybe a bit misleading to some but oh well. I don't think there was anything malicious behind it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Read...the rest of the Kickstarter page and their website.
Then use all of that information to ascertain that alpha would be available in 2018 and further phases would open up after that.
Then think for a while on what the team wants to build, the features they want in their game, the experience of different team members (including the business experience), and decide that was something I was interested in participating in.
Let's just leave it right there in plain site with no further discussion
Now back to the topic at hand.. when is the next livestream?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson