Ashes of Creation Pre-Alpha Gameplay - Aela Starting Area and Mage Spells (Better Quality)

Mikeha

Jacobin

Okay... Its single player third person RPG gameplay which resembles 92383 other games on the market or in development. Is this really that exciting to people?

Until they show how the actual 'rebirth a genre' MMO components work why would I pay for this years in advance?

Dullahan

Can't deny I'm intrigued by their ideas. Not convinced by a demo of a game that intends to have mass pvp warfare that runs at 20fps and currently lacks any of it's most important and technologically challenging features.

Could be neat though.

Slapshot1188

Jacobin said:

Okay... Its single player third person RPG gameplay which resembles 92383 other games on the market or in development. Is this really that exciting to people?

Until they show how the actual 'rebirth a genre' MMO components work why would I pay for this years in advance?

Usually people jump in because of the P2W elements found in most Kickstarters.  That really doesn't exist in Ashes of Creation Kickstarter so far.  So just being bluntly honest here, I have $125 pledged right now and may cancel it.  Not because the game is a scam, but simply because I don't think I personally value Alpha Access and some pixel pets worth that amount.  That's on ME though... I'm glad they went the non-P2W route.  I still have serious concerns about the game, but so far Steven has done what he said regarding P2W and offering refunds.  That is really all I can ask.  I don;t feel compelled to put down cash this early just to keep up with the Joneses.  I can hop in at release and literally be even with everyone else on my server.

[Deleted User]

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Dullahan

blueturtle13 said:

Dullahan said:

Can't deny I'm intrigued by their ideas. Not convinced by a demo of a game that intends to have mass pvp warfare that runs at 20fps and currently lacks any of it's most important and technologically challenging features.

Could be neat though.

This early in development I think they have shown 'enough' but it will be interesting to see how it comes all together. Running on Unreal 4 will ensure higher than 20 FPS though I am sure. Great engine.

Unreal is known for it's stock graphics capability, not it's performance capabilities in an mmorpg. Serious modifications will be necessary. If they are having that kind of framerate with 1 character on the screen, it doesn't bode well for mass pvp.

[Deleted User]

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Ponzini

Jacobin said:

Okay... Its single player third person RPG gameplay which resembles 92383 other games on the market or in development. Is this really that exciting to people?

Until they show how the actual 'rebirth a genre' MMO components work why would I pay for this years in advance?

So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise. Why not let people risk their money and benefit from it while risking nothing of your own money?

You realize what pre-alpha is right? How many kickstarters are announced with all their game systems complete? lol

FlyByKnight

I triple dog dare them to put 10-20 players on the screen at once during their demos.

Galadourn

The game looks fine even in its current state. I would pay a sub to play something like this, even without the innovations touted.

Kryn

Ponzini said:

Jacobin said:

Okay... Its single player third person RPG gameplay which resembles 92383 other games on the market or in development. Is this really that exciting to people?

Until they show how the actual 'rebirth a genre' MMO components work why would I pay for this years in advance?

So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise. Why not let people risk their money and benefit from it while risking nothing of your own money?

You realize what pre-alpha is right? How many kickstarters are announced with all their game systems complete? lol

People still don't realize how support of these types of games effect the entire gaming community.  The real question is how many kickstarter games release with all the game systems complete. Probably about .00001%, if that.  That is the more important question.

And we have gotten nothing but mediocre games from this system, at best.  Of course, that is with the idea of keeping at least half the donated money for your salary.  But a mans gotta get paid.

Ponzini

Dullahan said:

blueturtle13 said:

Dullahan said:

Can't deny I'm intrigued by their ideas. Not convinced by a demo of a game that intends to have mass pvp warfare that runs at 20fps and currently lacks any of it's most important and technologically challenging features.

Could be neat though.

This early in development I think they have shown 'enough' but it will be interesting to see how it comes all together. Running on Unreal 4 will ensure higher than 20 FPS though I am sure. Great engine.

Unreal is known for it's stock graphics capability, not it's performance capabilities in an mmorpg. Serious modifications will be necessary. If they are having that kind of framerate with 1 character on the screen, it doesn't bode well for mass pvp.

I think this video is running at near 60 fps actually. The shaky camera and motion blur make it look lower fps. Something they have talked about during their livestreams.

Jacobin

Ponzini said:

So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise.

Oh really? Name 1 good MMO that has come from KS.

I have backed 2 games - CU and CF. They didn't have much gameplay in the KS, but they did have proven industry veterans leading the studios who in fact had shipped multiple MMOs.

In my view a proven track record is much more convincing than slapped together gameplay footage. Intrepid has 1 technical guy who's MMO experience is being a mid level employee on EQ expansions and EQNext. This is utterly laughable when compared to Marc Jacobs, J Todd and Gordon Walton.

The kicker is that these industry veterans have had big problems sticking to timelines and many years later are still in early alpha phases.

If the MMO heavy hitters are having problems creating games with way smaller scopes than AoC, no amount of UE4 footage is going to convince me people with so little experience can build a game in 5+ years let alone 2.

Ponzini

Kryn said:

Ponzini said:

Jacobin said:

Okay... Its single player third person RPG gameplay which resembles 92383 other games on the market or in development. Is this really that exciting to people?

Until they show how the actual 'rebirth a genre' MMO components work why would I pay for this years in advance?

So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise. Why not let people risk their money and benefit from it while risking nothing of your own money?

You realize what pre-alpha is right? How many kickstarters are announced with all their game systems complete? lol

People still don't realize how support of these types of games effect the entire gaming community.  The real question is how many kickstarter games release with all the game systems complete. Probably about .00001%, if that.  That is the more important question.

And we have gotten nothing but mediocre games from this system, at best.  Of course, that is with the idea of keeping at least half the donated money for your salary.  But a mans gotta get paid.

People that support kickstarter games have lots of money to spare. It probably doesn't affect it at all. 

They've released some of my favorite games. Pillars of Eternity, Divinity Original Sin, Banner Saga, Darkest Dungeon, FTL, Etc. 

Just sit back and enjoy the games you would otherwise get. It has become the "cool" thing to shit on kickstarter games because of some failures. People just love to bitch.

Jacobin

Ponzini said:

Pillars of Eternity, Divinity Original Sin, Banner Saga, Darkest Dungeon, FTL, Etc.

FTL vs. Ashes of Creation - completely comparable projects lol.

Ponzini

Jacobin said:

Ponzini said:

Pillars of Eternity, Divinity Original Sin, Banner Saga, Darkest Dungeon, FTL, Etc.

FTL vs. Ashes of Creation - completely comparable projects lol.

God you are intolerable. I never said they were relatable games. I was specifically mentioning good games that have come out of kickstarter. You aren't the only one that realizes how hard MMOs are to make. Ashes can possibly fail I realize that. In the off chance they don't though we can finally have a good western MMO again.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Ponzini

Jacobin said:

Ponzini said:

So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise.

Oh really? Name 1 good MMO that has come from KS.

I have backed 2 games - CU and CF. They didn't have much gameplay in the KS, but they did have proven industry veterans leading the studios who in fact had shipped multiple MMOs.

In my view a proven track record is much more convincing than slapped together gameplay footage. Intrepid has 1 technical guy who's MMO experience is being a mid level employee on EQ expansions and EQNext. This is utterly laughable when compared to Marc Jacobs, J Todd and Gordon Walton.

The kicker is that these industry veterans have had big problems sticking to timelines and many years later are still in early alpha phases.

If the MMO heavy hitters are having problems creating games with way smaller scopes than AoC, no amount of UE4 footage is going to convince me people with so little experience can build a game in 5+ years let alone 2.

I think planning and management are by far the biggest factors when coming to making an MMO. I don't know these people well enough to know their talents and expertise. Steven seems like he is very detailed. The dude seems to be working 24/7. I wouldn't count them out.

Nilden

Ponzini said:

Jacobin said:

Okay... Its single player third person RPG gameplay which resembles 92383 other games on the market or in development. Is this really that exciting to people?

Until they show how the actual 'rebirth a genre' MMO components work why would I pay for this years in advance?

So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise. Why not let people risk their money and benefit from it while risking nothing of your own money?

You realize what pre-alpha is right? How many kickstarters are announced with all their game systems complete? lol

As far as I can tell pre-alpha is a bullshit marketing term. You could just call it alpha and there is zero difference.

Ponzini

Nilden said:

Ponzini said:

Jacobin said:

Okay... Its single player third person RPG gameplay which resembles 92383 other games on the market or in development. Is this really that exciting to people?

Until they show how the actual 'rebirth a genre' MMO components work why would I pay for this years in advance?

So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise. Why not let people risk their money and benefit from it while risking nothing of your own money?

You realize what pre-alpha is right? How many kickstarters are announced with all their game systems complete? lol

As far as I can tell pre-alpha is a bullshit marketing term. You could just call it alpha and there is zero difference.

Not really. Alpha is a testing phase. Pre-alpha is development. It is true some people put it in alpha when it should be pre-alpha but that is people using the term wrong. 

Jacobin

Ponzini said:

Jacobin said:

Ponzini said:

So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise.

Oh really? Name 1 good MMO that has come from KS.

I have backed 2 games - CU and CF. They didn't have much gameplay in the KS, but they did have proven industry veterans leading the studios who in fact had shipped multiple MMOs.

In my view a proven track record is much more convincing than slapped together gameplay footage. Intrepid has 1 technical guy who's MMO experience is being a mid level employee on EQ expansions and EQNext. This is utterly laughable when compared to Marc Jacobs, J Todd and Gordon Walton.

The kicker is that these industry veterans have had big problems sticking to timelines and many years later are still in early alpha phases.

If the MMO heavy hitters are having problems creating games with way smaller scopes than AoC, no amount of UE4 footage is going to convince me people with so little experience can build a game in 5+ years let alone 2.

I think planning and management are by far the biggest factors when coming to making an MMO. I don't know these people well enough to know their talents and expertise. Steven seems like he is very detailed. The dude seems to be working 24/7. I wouldn't count them out.

You don't know the people who literally created mass pvp in MMOs?

I am pretty sure it took 'planning and management' to release and run genre defining games such as UO, DAOC, SWG, SB, WAR.

The fact that people even mention Steven Sharif in the same sentence as the people who created these games just shows the sad state of the industry.

I get now why you think AoC is anything more than a crazy roulette gamble. You just have no industry context and think that all it takes is someone who can read a feature list and make a UE4 single player video to make an MMO.

Dullahan

Ponzini said:

Dullahan said:

blueturtle13 said:

Dullahan said:

Can't deny I'm intrigued by their ideas. Not convinced by a demo of a game that intends to have mass pvp warfare that runs at 20fps and currently lacks any of it's most important and technologically challenging features.

Could be neat though.

This early in development I think they have shown 'enough' but it will be interesting to see how it comes all together. Running on Unreal 4 will ensure higher than 20 FPS though I am sure. Great engine.

Unreal is known for it's stock graphics capability, not it's performance capabilities in an mmorpg. Serious modifications will be necessary. If they are having that kind of framerate with 1 character on the screen, it doesn't bode well for mass pvp.

I think this video is running at near 60 fps actually. The shaky camera and motion blur make it look lower fps. Something they have talked about during their livestreams.

That's not even close to 60fps while moving. Was hitching far too often to average at even 30.

Ponzini

Jacobin said:

Ponzini said:

Jacobin said:

Ponzini said:

So you are arguing against kickstarter in general? It has given us a few good games that we would have not gotten otherwise.

Oh really? Name 1 good MMO that has come from KS.

I have backed 2 games - CU and CF. They didn't have much gameplay in the KS, but they did have proven industry veterans leading the studios who in fact had shipped multiple MMOs.

In my view a proven track record is much more convincing than slapped together gameplay footage. Intrepid has 1 technical guy who's MMO experience is being a mid level employee on EQ expansions and EQNext. This is utterly laughable when compared to Marc Jacobs, J Todd and Gordon Walton.

The kicker is that these industry veterans have had big problems sticking to timelines and many years later are still in early alpha phases.

If the MMO heavy hitters are having problems creating games with way smaller scopes than AoC, no amount of UE4 footage is going to convince me people with so little experience can build a game in 5+ years let alone 2.

I think planning and management are by far the biggest factors when coming to making an MMO. I don't know these people well enough to know their talents and expertise. Steven seems like he is very detailed. The dude seems to be working 24/7. I wouldn't count them out.

You don't know the people who literally created mass pvp in MMOs?

I am pretty sure it took 'planning and management' to release and run genre defining games such as UO, DAOC, SWG, SB, WAR.

The fact that people even mention Steven Sharif in the same sentence as the people who created these games just shows the sad state of the industry.

I get now why you think AoC is anything more than a crazy roulette gamble. You just have no industry context and think that all it takes is someone who can read a feature list and make a UE4 single player video to make an MMO.

Are you trying to say planning and management wasn't a big part of the success of those games? 

Keep putting those developers from MMOs that are 10+ years old now up on a pedestal. No one has made a good MMO in a long time. The "veterans" have failed us. Also, did you really put Shadowbane (I'm guessing that is what SB refers to on your list) on your list of great MMOs? Sure it was fun, but definitely not well made by and shot of the imagination. 

All we can do is agree to disagree and what and see what they produce. It would be nice if this forums could get to talking about the actual game instead of having people repeating the same old negative shit based off nothing other than their own fears. 

Slapshot1188

Ponzini said:

All we can do is agree to disagree and what and see what they produce. It would be nice if this forums could get to talking about the actual game instead of having people repeating the same old negative shit based off nothing other than their own fears. 

To be fair... there is no "actual game" yet.  At most there are a few clips.  The forum would be desolate for the next few years if all we talked about was the "actual game".  So far they have done a good job with the easy stuff.   It's going to get a lot harder as we go along here.  If they pull it off, I'll buy the game.  No doubt about it.  But that is a big IF so far from release.

Ponzini

Slapshot1188 said:

Ponzini said:

All we can do is agree to disagree and what and see what they produce. It would be nice if this forums could get to talking about the actual game instead of having people repeating the same old negative shit based off nothing other than their own fears. 

To be fair... there is no "actual game" yet.  At most there are a few clips.  The forum would be desolate for the next few years if all we talked about was the "actual game".  So far they have done a good job with the easy stuff.   It's going to get a lot harder as we go along here.  If they pull it off, I'll buy the game.  No doubt about it.  But that is a big IF so far from release.

No I just mean't the hypothetical game. Features and stuff. Obviously the game is pretty bare bones so far. Yeah it is always a big IF with indie MMOs. They just hired 3 more people recently and are now at 18 employees (according to Steven on Reddit.) and are hiring a lot more before July apparently so hopefully we see development really ramp up. 

Jacobin

Ponzini said:

Keep putting those developers from MMOs that are 10+ years old now up on a pedestal. No one has made a good MMO in a long time. The "veterans" have failed us.

Dude this is my point. Industry veterans can't make a KS MMO so why do you believe Steven Sharif can?

The logic of 'the last 2 giants failed, so I will now bet all my hopes on a completely unknown wannabe' is just so bizarre. 

Discussing mechanics is pointless since the game is 5+ years away minimum. What happens with other projects is that people get so bored of discussing class x for 3-4 years that they just get bored and forget about the game.

And honestly the mechanics are the least interesting part of this game. Tank, Mage, Archer zzzzzzzzzz. We've been there done that 100 times.

Intrepid itself is what people find interesting.