Pledges to be refunded if game doesn't launch

Ponzini

I was reading an article on Ashes and noticed this:

"Something that certainly caught my eye was the promise that if, for any reason, Sharif believes Ashes of Creation won't launch, he'd refund every donation in full. I was skeptical of such a claim seeing as that Kickstarter money would already be spent on salaries and development by the time the game failed. "The entirety of the budget comes from my personal funding," Sharif says. "So if there's ever a moment in the future where it looks like there's a small percentage that this project might not be done, those reserves are available to refund the people who pledged towards it." 

Simply put, Sharif is willing to pay people back personally if Ashes of Creation fails."

So it seems our pledges will be refunded. Of course this isn't legally binding so you can choose to believe it or not. Nice to know though.

Source: http://www.pcgamer.com/ashes-of-creation-kickstarter/

Sovrath

I wonder if it's possible to take out insurance for this just in case it can't happen.

waynejr2

Sovrath said:

I wonder if it's possible to take out insurance for this just in case it can't happen.

I was thinking the same thing.  Someone would likely do it.

Talonsin

If he believes in the game/vision and has the money to do it, why do a kickstarter?  If the claim is real, he is risking his own money anyways...

Sovrath

Talonsin said:

If he believes in the game/vision and has the money to do it, why do a kickstarter?  If the claim is real, he is risking his own money anyways...

Well, it's less of a risk if he truly believes he can do it.

He would only use his own if money "if" it fails. And again, I wonder if what is really happening is that he would take out some sort of policy "just in case".

Slapshot1188

Ponzini said:

I was reading an article on Ashes and noticed this:

"Something that certainly caught my eye was the promise that if, for any reason, Sharif believes Ashes of Creation won't launch, he'd refund every donation in full. I was skeptical of such a claim seeing as that Kickstarter money would already be spent on salaries and development by the time the game failed. "The entirety of the budget comes from my personal funding," Sharif says. "So if there's ever a moment in the future where it looks like there's a small percentage that this project might not be done, those reserves are available to refund the people who pledged towards it." 

Simply put, Sharif is willing to pay people back personally if Ashes of Creation fails."

So it seems our pledges will be refunded. Of course this isn't legally binding so you can choose to believe it or not. Nice to know though.

Source: http://www.pcgamer.com/ashes-of-creation-kickstarter/

Yes.. you are welcome for that
Feel free to do a search for who first asked him to do that.

rertez

Talonsin said:

If he believes in the game/vision and has the money to do it, why do a kickstarter?  If the claim is real, he is risking his own money anyways...

Since the goal was too low for a project like this I think the kickstarter wasn't truly meant to fund the game's development but it was a good occasion to grab the market's attention. It appeared to be rather a means of testing the target audience's interest and its willingness to pay wthin a fairly short time frame. Also people like to spread word about successful kickstarters so despite all the negatives it wasn't a bad way to generate a somewhat enduring hype around the project.

rodarin

HAvent other guys said this?

Also 'launched' is the operative word.

Didnt Chris Roberts made this (I think he made some similar claim) then would what they have now be considered enough to NOT have to pay people back? But in the grand scheme the kickstarter money could be all paid back and they would still have 145 million (allegedly) and growing (allegedly) to work with. So by the time anything they put out that most would consider 'release worthy' they may have 200 million donated BEYOND the kickstarter money they received. Shit, they should refund the kickstarter money for fun....

Ponzini

Slapshot1188 said:

Ponzini said:

I was reading an article on Ashes and noticed this:

"Something that certainly caught my eye was the promise that if, for any reason, Sharif believes Ashes of Creation won't launch, he'd refund every donation in full. I was skeptical of such a claim seeing as that Kickstarter money would already be spent on salaries and development by the time the game failed. "The entirety of the budget comes from my personal funding," Sharif says. "So if there's ever a moment in the future where it looks like there's a small percentage that this project might not be done, those reserves are available to refund the people who pledged towards it." 

Simply put, Sharif is willing to pay people back personally if Ashes of Creation fails."

So it seems our pledges will be refunded. Of course this isn't legally binding so you can choose to believe it or not. Nice to know though.

Source: http://www.pcgamer.com/ashes-of-creation-kickstarter/

Yes.. you are welcome for that
Feel free to do a search for who first asked him to do that.

Nice! Thanks! lol

Talonsin said:

If he believes in the game/vision and has the money to do it, why do a kickstarter?  If the claim is real, he is risking his own money anyways...

Since the goal was too low for a project like this I think the kickstarter wasn't truly meant to fund the game's development but it was a good occasion to grab the market's attention. It appeared to be rather a means of testing the target audience's interest and its willingness to pay wthin a fairly short time frame. Also people like to spread word about successful kickstarters so despite all the negatives it wasn't a bad way to generate a somewhat enduring hype around the project.

Yes also he said the kickstarter was a way to get the community involved and add some kickstarter goals to the game.

rodarin said:

HAvent other guys said this?

Also 'launched' is the operative word.

Didnt Chris Roberts made this (I think he made some similar claim) then would what they have now be considered enough to NOT have to pay people back? But in the grand scheme the kickstarter money could be all paid back and they would still have 145 million (allegedly) and growing (allegedly) to work with. So by the time anything they put out that most would consider 'release worthy' they may have 200 million donated BEYOND the kickstarter money they received. Shit, they should refund the kickstarter money for fun....

Apparently Steven is loaded. This is from one of his guild mates that posted on Reddit:

"Knowing Steven personally....they have plenty. His "own funding" is substantial to say the least. This isn't your neighbor going out and and starting a game and paying a few friends to help him build a game in the basement, he has several corporations and investments and for a very very grounded guy has financial successes most of us could only ever dream of.

To elaborate on the sort of guy Steven is, routinely back in his Lineage 2 days, he would fly mass numbers of his guilds player base to his home or Vegas, arrange for huge scale lan setups to accomodate them all and host weekend long castle seige parties from there. Catering in food, drinks, gambling funds, whatever. He is one of it not the most down to earth and generous people you will ever meet, which is likely where the 15% back for referrals stem from. They will literally send you cash if thats how you want the 15%."

Though it is still up to you to decide if he is telling the truth.

slagathore

Such a big pile of shit.

He has been asked many times to define "core viable product" -- which is what he promises to launch or give you your money back -- and that means he could release an 8bit pile of crap moving around the screen and say he met his commitment.

If he is funding the project himself and wants to involve others, why ask for money? Why not just be the good guy he claims to be and open it up for inclusion in ways that don't require taking people's money? It would be like asking your friends to join you at your house party, claiming you've taken care of everything and they just have to show up, then slamming them with a cover charge at the door. 360 degrees of bullshit.

Kyleran

A surety bond would ensure the refund pledge was met, but you won't likely see an insurer willing to take this bet.

slagathore

Link to stream and time where they define it?

slagathore

And it is still a big pile of crap that he "wants us involved in the journey" that he has admitted to funding but wants to charge us for it.  Call it what it is and say you need the money or say that you have it covered, but don't do both because it makes you look shady AF.

Ponzini

slagathore said:

Such a big pile of shit.

He has been asked many times to define "core viable product" -- which is what he promises to launch or give you your money back -- and that means he could release an 8bit pile of crap moving around the screen and say he met his commitment.

If he is funding the project himself and wants to involve others, why ask for money? Why not just be the good guy he claims to be and open it up for inclusion in ways that don't require taking people's money? It would be like asking your friends to join you at your house party, claiming you've taken care of everything and they just have to show up, then slamming them with a cover charge at the door. 360 degrees of bullshit.

It is a way to add more features that wouldn't otherwise be in the game. He wasn't going to ask everyone to add their ideas to the game and pay for it himself. He has already budgeted his money for the core game.

Can you source where he has been asked to define "core viable product" and didn't answer? I've seen almost everything I thought and cant recall that he has been asked that.

slagathore

Judging me on my avatar? lol 

Link the proof, bro.

Ponzini

slagathore said:

And it is still a big pile of crap that he "wants us involved in the journey" that he has admitted to funding but wants to charge us for it.  Call it what it is and say you need the money or say that you have it covered, but don't do both because it makes you look shady AF.

LOL If you are gonna call everything a "big pile of crap" then no one can help you. Why do you want a quote of him saying stuff if you won't believe it anyways. You have made up your mind.

Distopia

slagathore said:

Such a big pile of shit.

He has been asked many times to define "core viable product" -- which is what he promises to launch or give you your money back -- and that means he could release an 8bit pile of crap moving around the screen and say he met his commitment.

If he is funding the project himself and wants to involve others, why ask for money? Why not just be the good guy he claims to be and open it up for inclusion in ways that don't require taking people's money? It would be like asking your friends to join you at your house party, claiming you've taken care of everything and they just have to show up, then slamming them with a cover charge at the door. 360 degrees of bullshit.

If you were going to put millions of your own personal funds into something (if he is). Would you not want to first gauge interest as well as commitment from others to ensure it's worth the cost? IF nothing else that would be my reasoning to go to KS and the like with this plan. That's exactly what MJ did as well. People don't get rich by wasting money. 

slagathore

Ponzini said:

slagathore said:

And it is still a big pile of crap that he "wants us involved in the journey" that he has admitted to funding but wants to charge us for it.  Call it what it is and say you need the money or say that you have it covered, but don't do both because it makes you look shady AF.

LOL If you are gonna call everything a "big pile of crap" then no one can help you. Why do you want a quote of him saying stuff if you won't believe it anyways. You have made up your mind.

Of course I've made up my mind lol. How is that not obvious??

Ponzini

slagathore said:

Ponzini said:

slagathore said:

And it is still a big pile of crap that he "wants us involved in the journey" that he has admitted to funding but wants to charge us for it.  Call it what it is and say you need the money or say that you have it covered, but don't do both because it makes you look shady AF.

LOL If you are gonna call everything a "big pile of crap" then no one can help you. Why do you want a quote of him saying stuff if you won't believe it anyways. You have made up your mind.

Of course I've made up my mind lol. How is that not obvious??

Well you said he has been "asked several times to define core viable product" but hasn't answered so where is the source? 

If you made up your mind then you are wasting our time.

Galadourn

the KS in this case appears to be more of a marketing/PR stunt than an actual fund raising method. If he has/can find the money to fund the "core viable project" as he claims the KS is a nice-to-have addition, and also a nice gauge for the potential reach of the game, but not something to lose one's sleep about.

Slapshot1188

slagathore said:

Such a big pile of shit.

He has been asked many times to define "core viable product" -- which is what he promises to launch or give you your money back -- and that means he could release an 8bit pile of crap moving around the screen and say he met his commitment.

I am a large skeptic of the game... but what you said is not true.   He was asked to define the core viable product and he said it was inclusive of all all mechanics and systems discussed.  This was covered in the @grakulen interview on this site.
 
Now whether or not that turns into reality is another story, but he has answered the question about Core Viable Product


Edit to add the link:  http://www.mmorpg.com/ashes-of-creation/videos/mmo-conversation-with-the-ashes-of-creation-team-1000005362

Prescience

As a reminder you can back out of the kickstarter at any time before it completes too. Just wanted to throw that out there because it seems relevant.

Vrika

http://www.pcgamer.com/ashes-of-creation-kickstarter/ said:

Simply put, Sharif is willing to pay people back personally if Ashes of Creation fails.

No, that part is misunderstood.

Intrepid Studios is promising on Kickstarter that if the game doesn't launch Intrepid Studios will refund the money. Getting any refunds at that point will depend on whether Intrepid Studios has money or not.

Intrepid Studios has not disclosed what kind of agreement they have with Sharif about Sharif funding them. In the event of failure to launch Sharif's responsibility is limited to his agreement with Intrepid Studios, and he has no responsibility to pay any backers back directly.

Prescience

Vrika said:

http://www.pcgamer.com/ashes-of-creation-kickstarter/ said:

Simply put, Sharif is willing to pay people back personally if Ashes of Creation fails.

No, that part is misunderstood.

Intrepid Studios is promising on Kickstarter that if the game doesn't launch Intrepid Studios will refund the money. Getting any refunds at that point will depend on whether Intrepid Studios has money or not.

Intrepid Studios has not disclosed what kind of agreement they have with Sharif about Sharif funding them. In the event of failure to launch Sharif's responsibility is limited to his agreement with Intrepid Studios, and he has no responsibility to pay any backers back directly.

Thank you for reminding the ill-informed that a company is not the same thing as an individual. 

Akulas

If you donate money just like any kickstarter  pretend you are throwing it into a pit and never going to see it again.

Kyleran

Torval said:

slagathore said:

Such a big pile of shit.

He has been asked many times to define "core viable product" -- which is what he promises to launch or give you your money back -- and that means he could release an 8bit pile of crap moving around the screen and say he met his commitment.

If he is funding the project himself and wants to involve others, why ask for money? Why not just be the good guy he claims to be and open it up for inclusion in ways that don't require taking people's money? It would be like asking your friends to join you at your house party, claiming you've taken care of everything and they just have to show up, then slamming them with a cover charge at the door. 360 degrees of bullshit.

Their team defined core viable product and what that means in a livestream. The info is there.

I missed that, can you please link?