I'm not saying this is a pyramid scheme but I'd like to point out most pyramid schemes are not easy to recognize at first glance. They are often times disguised as a legitimate operation.
I'm brazilian. Tell me about it. Avon, Jequiti, Herbalife, the list is almost infinite.
Last time I had problems with my internet the repair guy came and offered me to be part of a pyramid scheme.
Avon and Herbalife are not pyramid schemes. I'm unfamiliar with Jequiti.
If someone asks you if you want to be in a pyramid scheme, run in the opposite direction and maybe report them.
Most corporations and governments are pyramid-shaped. That does not make them pyramid schemes. Pyramid schemes typically will last only a matter of months, and are a form of fraud.
Avon and Herbalife are both running from our Federal Police due illegal scheme. What the hell are you talking about? Jequiti is the same thing as Avon, but the owner is SBT's Silvio Santos.
Don't lecture me on brazilian bullshit corruption. I have phd on that.
Hmm? Avon, the fifth-largest beauty corporation in the world, is illegal in Brasil? That's news to me.
Why aren't you doing something about it? It's not like lawyers are hard to find?
It's almost like suing someone is a complicated and expensive matter. Where justice isn't about what is true or wrong, but about what can be proven.
That's why class actions exist.
Also, if somebody who is a part of an "illegal" enterprise comes knocking on my door, I am letting someone in an empowered position know about it.
Unless of course it's not illegal at all, and it's just a part of this narrative I've created in order to validate my world view.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
The problem with the affiliate program is that it is using KS donations to fund a marketing campaign and not game development.
KS is an even better marketing tool than usual when you can get the donors to pay for it.
This is the only legit concern ive seen posted. However KS pledges generally includes marketing for other KS games including Star Citizen and such. So it really isn't that different.
Heck Star Citizen has its own conventions. How do you think they pay for that?
I'm not saying this is a pyramid scheme but I'd like to point out most pyramid schemes are not easy to recognize at first glance. They are often times disguised as a legitimate operation.
I'm brazilian. Tell me about it. Avon, Jequiti, Herbalife, the list is almost infinite.
Last time I had problems with my internet the repair guy came and offered me to be part of a pyramid scheme.
Avon and Herbalife are not pyramid schemes. I'm unfamiliar with Jequiti.
If someone asks you if you want to be in a pyramid scheme, run in the opposite direction and maybe report them.
Most corporations and governments are pyramid-shaped. That does not make them pyramid schemes. Pyramid schemes typically will last only a matter of months, and are a form of fraud.
Avon and Herbalife are both running from our Federal Police due illegal scheme. What the hell are you talking about? Jequiti is the same thing as Avon, but the owner is SBT's Silvio Santos.
Don't lecture me on brazilian bullshit corruption. I have phd on that.
Hmm? Avon, the fifth-largest beauty corporation in the world, is illegal in Brasil? That's news to me.
Why aren't you doing something about it? It's not like lawyers are hard to find?
It's almost like suing someone is a complicated and expensive matter. Where justice isn't about what is true or wrong, but about what can be proven.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Who cares about the whole part about referrals during the KS campaign, etc. What about the piece about devaluing my referral bonuses? I believe the reddit quoted in the article came from Steven directly. So is he really saying that if the person I refer, refers 10 people himself, then I get nothing? That doesn't seem to make sense to me AT ALL!!! I know Steven in on here somewhere, but can't find his damn id for some reason.
Can someone ping him here to clarify this? First off, if that's true then that's bullshit because it's basically penalizing someone for referring people. Secondly, people are paid on a quarterly basis. PAID!!! So are you saying that they will have some sort of account with AOC where their subscription would be withdrawn from? Or are they actively paying with a credit card each month? If they are actively paying for their subscription with a credit card each month (which I'm assuming they are) then they ARE spending money. Whether that money is counter-acted because they make money off the people they referred makes zero fucking difference to me. Just give me my fucking money!
Honestly, I think Steven needs to clarify this like now because it's a real gaff in my opinion and it's really not how an affiliate program works, and he should know better. Don't penalize your affiliates for referring people to you.
Ahm.... If you refer someone and that someone refers someone else and you get rewards on that hierarchy...
It's a pyramid scheme.
No, I'm talking about this bit: "Just to be clear.
Our referral system works the opposite of a pyramid. If you refer someone who spends $15 to play our game, you are rewarded with $2.25.
If they refer someone who spends $15 to play our game, they now only spend $12.75, which means you are now only rewarded with $1.91"
So essentially, @Ashes_Steven is saying that if I refer someone who refers 10 people, they don't appreciate that I referred that person anymore because instead of giving me $2.25 for helping them to make $165 monthly, they devalue my commission to $0. It doesn't matter if you're a streamer or a youtuber or a regular Joe with a large social network. Your monthly income only ever shrinks with this model. Come one, Steven, you know I've been a great advocate for you on here, but please fix this because you know it's bullshit. It's not a pyramid, but it's a broken affiliate system.
So if by some miracle a person you referred, referred another ,who referred another, who referred another, etc down the chain 10 times you would still get $0.43 from that person.
EDIT: oops messed up there at the end.
It would never quite reach 0
Ok, whatever, my point is don't penalize me for referring people to you who, in turn, refer more people. The way a non-sketchy affiliate program works, with recurring payments, is that if I refer someone to your subscription-based product, I make a percentage of that subscription for the life of that subscription. My income isn't devalued based on how many people some other person (that I referred) refers.
Just go look at Clickbank.com, I've done affiliate marketing with them for over a decade and I can assure you of the 6000+ affiliates who offer recurring payments on subscriptions, there isn't ONE who works it this way. Maybe @Ashes_Steven can prove me wrong and name a handful of affiliate programs that work this way, by devaluing the initial referral, but I haven't seen any in my travels.
Also, you've been posting here long enough to know that I am a fan of the game, and I'm a fan of the referral program, but if this is actually how it will be implemented, it's broken. Just saying that from the perspective of an affiliate. As more referrals are made downstream, the upstream affiliates are being devalued to, effectively, zero. If he wants to be successful then bite the fucking bullet and just make it a straight 15% based on anything they buy. Let's be honest, even if someone is spending $100 of Intrepid bucks or whatever it is, he's still paying his affiliates with someone else's money. If
Seriously, recreating affiliate marketing so that only the company "wins" isn't really helping the whole "We're not greedy" camp. Just implement it right @Ashes_Steven, you know this isn't.
Actually, @CrazKanuk I think you're right. The way I read Steven's Reddit post, which you quote, you could potentially see $0 from a referral if that referral referred 7 additional people each of whom paid full subscription price.
If a company wants people to do the job of a salesman, they need to pay people for that service.
I would note, though, that this is an affiliate marketing program, not an offer for employment. They can pay you whatever they want for referring people to them; it's up to you to determine whether or not it's worth it.
They would only get in trouble if they said something like... I don't know... 'you could earn $10,000 through our referrals program', and it turned out this figure was impractical to reach due to how the referral scheme was set up.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Who cares about the whole part about referrals during the KS campaign, etc. What about the piece about devaluing my referral bonuses? I believe the reddit quoted in the article came from Steven directly. So is he really saying that if the person I refer, refers 10 people himself, then I get nothing? That doesn't seem to make sense to me AT ALL!!! I know Steven in on here somewhere, but can't find his damn id for some reason.
Can someone ping him here to clarify this? First off, if that's true then that's bullshit because it's basically penalizing someone for referring people. Secondly, people are paid on a quarterly basis. PAID!!! So are you saying that they will have some sort of account with AOC where their subscription would be withdrawn from? Or are they actively paying with a credit card each month? If they are actively paying for their subscription with a credit card each month (which I'm assuming they are) then they ARE spending money. Whether that money is counter-acted because they make money off the people they referred makes zero fucking difference to me. Just give me my fucking money!
Honestly, I think Steven needs to clarify this like now because it's a real gaff in my opinion and it's really not how an affiliate program works, and he should know better. Don't penalize your affiliates for referring people to you.
Ahm.... If you refer someone and that someone refers someone else and you get rewards on that hierarchy...
It's a pyramid scheme.
No, I'm talking about this bit: "Just to be clear.
Our referral system works the opposite of a pyramid. If you refer someone who spends $15 to play our game, you are rewarded with $2.25.
If they refer someone who spends $15 to play our game, they now only spend $12.75, which means you are now only rewarded with $1.91"
So essentially, @Ashes_Steven is saying that if I refer someone who refers 10 people, they don't appreciate that I referred that person anymore because instead of giving me $2.25 for helping them to make $165 monthly, they devalue my commission to $0. It doesn't matter if you're a streamer or a youtuber or a regular Joe with a large social network. Your monthly income only ever shrinks with this model. Come one, Steven, you know I've been a great advocate for you on here, but please fix this because you know it's bullshit. It's not a pyramid, but it's a broken affiliate system.
So if by some miracle a person you referred, referred another ,who referred another, who referred another, etc down the chain 10 times you would still get $0.43 from that person.
EDIT: oops messed up there at the end.
It would never quite reach 0
Ok, whatever, my point is don't penalize me for referring people to you who, in turn, refer more people. The way a non-sketchy affiliate program works, with recurring payments, is that if I refer someone to your subscription-based product, I make a percentage of that subscription for the life of that subscription. My income isn't devalued based on how many people some other person (that I referred) refers.
Just go look at Clickbank.com, I've done affiliate marketing with them for over a decade and I can assure you of the 6000+ affiliates who offer recurring payments on subscriptions, there isn't ONE who works it this way. Maybe @Ashes_Steven can prove me wrong and name a handful of affiliate programs that work this way, by devaluing the initial referral, but I haven't seen any in my travels.
Also, you've been posting here long enough to know that I am a fan of the game, and I'm a fan of the referral program, but if this is actually how it will be implemented, it's broken. Just saying that from the perspective of an affiliate. As more referrals are made downstream, the upstream affiliates are being devalued to, effectively, zero. If he wants to be successful then bite the fucking bullet and just make it a straight 15% based on anything they buy. Let's be honest, even if someone is spending $100 of Intrepid bucks or whatever it is, he's still paying his affiliates with someone else's money. If
Seriously, recreating affiliate marketing so that only the company "wins" isn't really helping the whole "We're not greedy" camp. Just implement it right @Ashes_Steven, you know this isn't.
Actually, @CrazKanuk I think you're right. The way I read Steven's Reddit post, which you quote, you could potentially see $0 from a referral if that referral referred 7 additional people each of whom paid full subscription price.
If a company wants people to do the job of a salesman, they need to pay people for that service.
I would note, though, that this is an affiliate marketing program, not an offer for employment. They can pay you whatever they want for referring people to them; it's up to you to determine whether or not it's worth it.
They would only get in trouble if they said something like... I don't know... 'you could earn $10,000 through our referrals program', and it turned out this figure was impractical to reach due to how the referral scheme was set up.
This can be a grey area. Some times FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) can kick in depending on what is being asked of us, what we're doing, and how much money we've made. There have been times in the past that FLSA has kicked in during affiliate systems that turned out to be something more.
Who cares about the whole part about referrals during the KS campaign, etc. What about the piece about devaluing my referral bonuses? I believe the reddit quoted in the article came from Steven directly. So is he really saying that if the person I refer, refers 10 people himself, then I get nothing? That doesn't seem to make sense to me AT ALL!!! I know Steven in on here somewhere, but can't find his damn id for some reason.
Can someone ping him here to clarify this? First off, if that's true then that's bullshit because it's basically penalizing someone for referring people. Secondly, people are paid on a quarterly basis. PAID!!! So are you saying that they will have some sort of account with AOC where their subscription would be withdrawn from? Or are they actively paying with a credit card each month? If they are actively paying for their subscription with a credit card each month (which I'm assuming they are) then they ARE spending money. Whether that money is counter-acted because they make money off the people they referred makes zero fucking difference to me. Just give me my fucking money!
Honestly, I think Steven needs to clarify this like now because it's a real gaff in my opinion and it's really not how an affiliate program works, and he should know better. Don't penalize your affiliates for referring people to you.
Ahm.... If you refer someone and that someone refers someone else and you get rewards on that hierarchy...
It's a pyramid scheme.
No, I'm talking about this bit: "Just to be clear.
Our referral system works the opposite of a pyramid. If you refer someone who spends $15 to play our game, you are rewarded with $2.25.
If they refer someone who spends $15 to play our game, they now only spend $12.75, which means you are now only rewarded with $1.91"
So essentially, @Ashes_Steven is saying that if I refer someone who refers 10 people, they don't appreciate that I referred that person anymore because instead of giving me $2.25 for helping them to make $165 monthly, they devalue my commission to $0. It doesn't matter if you're a streamer or a youtuber or a regular Joe with a large social network. Your monthly income only ever shrinks with this model. Come one, Steven, you know I've been a great advocate for you on here, but please fix this because you know it's bullshit. It's not a pyramid, but it's a broken affiliate system.
So if by some miracle a person you referred, referred another ,who referred another, who referred another, etc down the chain 10 times you would still get $0.43 from that person.
EDIT: oops messed up there at the end.
It would never quite reach 0
Ok, whatever, my point is don't penalize me for referring people to you who, in turn, refer more people. The way a non-sketchy affiliate program works, with recurring payments, is that if I refer someone to your subscription-based product, I make a percentage of that subscription for the life of that subscription. My income isn't devalued based on how many people some other person (that I referred) refers.
Just go look at Clickbank.com, I've done affiliate marketing with them for over a decade and I can assure you of the 6000+ affiliates who offer recurring payments on subscriptions, there isn't ONE who works it this way. Maybe @Ashes_Steven can prove me wrong and name a handful of affiliate programs that work this way, by devaluing the initial referral, but I haven't seen any in my travels.
Also, you've been posting here long enough to know that I am a fan of the game, and I'm a fan of the referral program, but if this is actually how it will be implemented, it's broken. Just saying that from the perspective of an affiliate. As more referrals are made downstream, the upstream affiliates are being devalued to, effectively, zero. If he wants to be successful then bite the fucking bullet and just make it a straight 15% based on anything they buy. Let's be honest, even if someone is spending $100 of Intrepid bucks or whatever it is, he's still paying his affiliates with someone else's money. If
Seriously, recreating affiliate marketing so that only the company "wins" isn't really helping the whole "We're not greedy" camp. Just implement it right @Ashes_Steven, you know this isn't.
Actually, @CrazKanuk I think you're right. The way I read Steven's Reddit post, which you quote, you could potentially see $0 from a referral if that referral referred 7 additional people each of whom paid full subscription price.
If a company wants people to do the job of a salesman, they need to pay people for that service.
I would note, though, that this is an affiliate marketing program, not an offer for employment. They can pay you whatever they want for referring people to them; it's up to you to determine whether or not it's worth it.
They would only get in trouble if they said something like... I don't know... 'you could earn $10,000 through our referrals program', and it turned out this figure was impractical to reach due to how the referral scheme was set up.
This can be a grey area. Some times FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) can kick in depending on what is being asked of us, what we're doing, and how much money we've made. There have been times in the past that FLSA has kicked in during affiliate systems that turned out to be something more.
Is there anything about Intrepid's referral program that would constitute "labor" on the part of the referrer? Anything at all? Any minor inconveniences or investments?
Until then, you are coming off as somewhat hot on the draw.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Who cares about the whole part about referrals during the KS campaign, etc. What about the piece about devaluing my referral bonuses? I believe the reddit quoted in the article came from Steven directly. So is he really saying that if the person I refer, refers 10 people himself, then I get nothing? That doesn't seem to make sense to me AT ALL!!! I know Steven in on here somewhere, but can't find his damn id for some reason.
Can someone ping him here to clarify this? First off, if that's true then that's bullshit because it's basically penalizing someone for referring people. Secondly, people are paid on a quarterly basis. PAID!!! So are you saying that they will have some sort of account with AOC where their subscription would be withdrawn from? Or are they actively paying with a credit card each month? If they are actively paying for their subscription with a credit card each month (which I'm assuming they are) then they ARE spending money. Whether that money is counter-acted because they make money off the people they referred makes zero fucking difference to me. Just give me my fucking money!
Honestly, I think Steven needs to clarify this like now because it's a real gaff in my opinion and it's really not how an affiliate program works, and he should know better. Don't penalize your affiliates for referring people to you.
Ahm.... If you refer someone and that someone refers someone else and you get rewards on that hierarchy...
It's a pyramid scheme.
No, I'm talking about this bit: "Just to be clear.
Our referral system works the opposite of a pyramid. If you refer someone who spends $15 to play our game, you are rewarded with $2.25.
If they refer someone who spends $15 to play our game, they now only spend $12.75, which means you are now only rewarded with $1.91"
So essentially, @Ashes_Steven is saying that if I refer someone who refers 10 people, they don't appreciate that I referred that person anymore because instead of giving me $2.25 for helping them to make $165 monthly, they devalue my commission to $0. It doesn't matter if you're a streamer or a youtuber or a regular Joe with a large social network. Your monthly income only ever shrinks with this model. Come one, Steven, you know I've been a great advocate for you on here, but please fix this because you know it's bullshit. It's not a pyramid, but it's a broken affiliate system.
So if by some miracle a person you referred, referred another ,who referred another, who referred another, etc down the chain 10 times you would still get $0.43 from that person.
EDIT: oops messed up there at the end.
It would never quite reach 0
Ok, whatever, my point is don't penalize me for referring people to you who, in turn, refer more people. The way a non-sketchy affiliate program works, with recurring payments, is that if I refer someone to your subscription-based product, I make a percentage of that subscription for the life of that subscription. My income isn't devalued based on how many people some other person (that I referred) refers.
Just go look at Clickbank.com, I've done affiliate marketing with them for over a decade and I can assure you of the 6000+ affiliates who offer recurring payments on subscriptions, there isn't ONE who works it this way. Maybe @Ashes_Steven can prove me wrong and name a handful of affiliate programs that work this way, by devaluing the initial referral, but I haven't seen any in my travels.
Also, you've been posting here long enough to know that I am a fan of the game, and I'm a fan of the referral program, but if this is actually how it will be implemented, it's broken. Just saying that from the perspective of an affiliate. As more referrals are made downstream, the upstream affiliates are being devalued to, effectively, zero. If he wants to be successful then bite the fucking bullet and just make it a straight 15% based on anything they buy. Let's be honest, even if someone is spending $100 of Intrepid bucks or whatever it is, he's still paying his affiliates with someone else's money. If
Seriously, recreating affiliate marketing so that only the company "wins" isn't really helping the whole "We're not greedy" camp. Just implement it right @Ashes_Steven, you know this isn't.
Actually, @CrazKanuk I think you're right. The way I read Steven's Reddit post, which you quote, you could potentially see $0 from a referral if that referral referred 7 additional people each of whom paid full subscription price.
If a company wants people to do the job of a salesman, they need to pay people for that service.
I would note, though, that this is an affiliate marketing program, not an offer for employment. They can pay you whatever they want for referring people to them; it's up to you to determine whether or not it's worth it.
They would only get in trouble if they said something like... I don't know... 'you could earn $10,000 through our referrals program', and it turned out this figure was impractical to reach due to how the referral scheme was set up.
This can be a grey area. Some times FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) can kick in depending on what is being asked of us, what we're doing, and how much money we've made. There have been times in the past that FLSA has kicked in during affiliate systems that turned out to be something more.
Is there anything about Intrepid's referral program that would constitute "labor" on the part of the referrer? Anything at all? Any minor inconveniences or investments?
Until then, you are coming off as somewhat hot on the draw.
I am not a lawyer but I was pointing out how things have been in the past with similar systems.
If a company wants people to do the job of a salesman, they need to pay people for that service.
I would note, though, that this is an affiliate marketing program, not an offer for employment. They can pay you whatever they want for referring people to them; it's up to you to determine whether or not it's worth it.
They would only get in trouble if they said something like... I don't know... 'you could earn $10,000 through our referrals program', and it turned out this figure was impractical to reach due to how the referral scheme was set up.
This can be a grey area. Some times FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) can kick in depending on what is being asked of us, what we're doing, and how much money we've made. There have been times in the past that FLSA has kicked in during affiliate systems that turned out to be something more.
Is there anything about Intrepid's referral program that would constitute "labor" on the part of the referrer? Anything at all? Any minor inconveniences or investments?
Until then, you are coming off as somewhat hot on the draw.
I am not a lawyer but I was pointing out how things have been in the past with similar systems.
Apparently you feel qualified to invoke FLSA in regards to Intrepid's referral program, though. Got it.
...perhaps you can see why it looks to an outsider like me that the critical segment to Ashes of Creation has gone off the deep end. At this stage, you are just throwing everything you can think of against the wall and hoping that something sticks.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Someone posts on Reddit that Steven used to be part of an MLM company and ever since there is a group of people trying to look for anything and everything to use against them. Prescience here has no interest in the game. He is on some crusade to save us all from evil Intrepid and tell us what to do with our money. lol
Someone posts on Reddit that Steven used to be part of an MLM company and ever since there is a group of people trying to look for anything and everything to use against them. Prescience here has no interest in the game. He is on some crusade to save us all from evil Intrepid and tell us what to do with our money. lol
Someone posts on Reddit that Steven used to be part of an MLM company and ever since there is a group of people trying to look for anything and everything to use against them. Prescience here has no interest in the game. He is on some crusade to save us all from evil Intrepid and tell us what to do with our money. lol
That isn't true at all.
Nice argument. You can say it isn't but you have been only posting negative since day 1. There is a different between being skeptic and completely opposed. Didn't you even admit to this in earlier posts? Maybe it was someone else. Could have been Jacobin.
Even I am a skeptic on if they can deliver or not. However I am 100% sure it isn't a scam at this point.
Someone posts on Reddit that Steven used to be part of an MLM company and ever since there is a group of people trying to look for anything and everything to use against them. Prescience here has no interest in the game. He is on some crusade to save us all from evil Intrepid and tell us what to do with our money. lol
That isn't true at all.
Nice argument. You can say it isn't but you have been only posting negative since day 1. There is a different between being skeptic and completely opposed. Didn't you even admit to this in earlier posts? Maybe it was someone else. Could have been Jacobin.
Even I am a skeptic on if they can deliver or not. However I am 100% sure it isn't a scam at this point.
Someone posts on Reddit that Steven used to be part of an MLM company and ever since there is a group of people trying to look for anything and everything to use against them. Prescience here has no interest in the game. He is on some crusade to save us all from evil Intrepid and tell us what to do with our money. lol
That isn't true at all.
Nice argument. You can say it isn't but you have been only posting negative since day 1. There is a different between being skeptic and completely opposed. Didn't you even admit to this in earlier posts? Maybe it was someone else. Could have been Jacobin.
Even I am a skeptic on if they can deliver or not. However I am 100% sure it isn't a scam at this point.
Okay, I will remember this post for the future.
What does that even mean!?!? lol I have never said otherwise! *facepalm*
Wow... that was a crazy number of notifications in just a few hours.
Anyhow, as scintillating is to watch you argue over the best format for setting up your future pyramid schemes... anyone heard from PCGamer or the author?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Wow... that was a crazy number of notifications in just a few hours.
Anyhow, as scintillating is to watch you argue over the best format for setting up your future pyramid schemes... anyone heard from PCGamer or the author?
Remember guys, the discussion with Steven Sharif and Steven Messner took place on Skype. It's entirely possible that Steve Messner also spoke to Kickstarter on a skype call or in an unverifiable place.
He is likely seeking to get an "air tight" official statement from them that won't be disputable as it would likely be in the form of email or recording.
Remember guys, the discussion with Steven Sharif and Steven Messner took place on Skype. It's entirely possible that Steve Messner also spoke to Kickstarter on a skype call or in an unverifiable place.
He is likely seeking to get an "air tight" official statement from them that won't be disputable as it would likely be in the form of email or recording.
hahahahaha what the hell are you talking about? he already dropped "QUOTES" ... it doesn't get any more airtight than that; unless it's all just click bait.
I'm not saying this is a pyramid scheme but I'd like to point out most pyramid schemes are not easy to recognize at first glance. They are often times disguised as a legitimate operation.
I'm brazilian. Tell me about it. Avon, Jequiti, Herbalife, the list is almost infinite.
Last time I had problems with my internet the repair guy came and offered me to be part of a pyramid scheme.
Avon and Herbalife are not pyramid schemes. I'm unfamiliar with Jequiti.
If someone asks you if you want to be in a pyramid scheme, run in the opposite direction and maybe report them.
Most corporations and governments are pyramid-shaped. That does not make them pyramid schemes. Pyramid schemes typically will last only a matter of months, and are a form of fraud.
Avon and Herbalife are both running from our Federal Police due illegal scheme. What the hell are you talking about? Jequiti is the same thing as Avon, but the owner is SBT's Silvio Santos.
Don't lecture me on brazilian bullshit corruption. I have phd on that.
Hmm? Avon, the fifth-largest beauty corporation in the world, is illegal in Brasil? That's news to me.
Why aren't you doing something about it? It's not like lawyers are hard to find?
It's almost like suing someone is a complicated and expensive matter. Where justice isn't about what is true or wrong, but about what can be proven.
That's why class actions exist.
Also, if somebody who is a part of an "illegal" enterprise comes knocking on my door, I am letting someone in an empowered position know about it.
Unless of course it's not illegal at all, and it's just a part of this narrative I've created in order to validate my world view.
Oh shit are we back to armchair lawyering? I love that shit. First off, are you a lawyer or otherwise a licensed legal expert?
Also let me tell you all about how I would TOTALLY beat up the schoolyard bully. I've theorycrafted spreadsheets and everything.
Maybe real life is a little bit harder than that, hmm?
is this really so much of an issue to start a crusade against it?
" All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. "
Please. Real evil exists in the world. Take a look at some of the horrific events being reported in your newspaper today or on your favorite news channel.
What you are concerned about may or may not be true. Nothing has been proven, just a lot of virtual ink on these forums and elsewhere without any substantive proof of any wrong-doing. I'm sure if there was any legal justification for most of what has been launched at Intrepid, someone would have taken it to the next step.
Ashes of Creation's fund raising doesn't even begin to approach evil.
And as an aside: Caution in all crowd funding is always prudent. That's simply common sense.
Fraud from your average every day citizen is not bad in your mind...even if it could be millions of dollars? Sure its not as bad as murdering 8 people, but then no one said it was. You assumed that. And if common sense applied to humans we would need no laws..most laws are common sense yet people break them every day.
is this really so much of an issue to start a crusade against it?
" All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. "
LOL Dude. You are a joke.
So this article seems to be have all his fears addressed point by point. He just remains skeptical. Which is normal with kickstarter. You and this article have told us nothing new. It was already pointed out he doesn't have a legal obligation to pay anyone back if the project isn't released. He has said he will though which counts for something.
It is up to the individual to decide if he is being dishonest or not. Welcome to kickstarter?
Your judgment is clouded.
Your bias is confirmed.
Can all you guys stay focused on the article? As much fun as all your back and forth sniping may seem it's really kind of lame.
I for one am interested in finding out if in fact they really retroactively changed the referral program. If they did this I will absolutely pull my pledge. I have over 500 referrals. That's bullshit. Most people will pledge and get free months subs.. I know a few that went in for the $400+ tier for lifetime sub which would in effect mean no payout.
This is what happens when people are on defensive. It's best to just ignore them.
That is hilarious since you were the one that posted "your judgement is clouded" first. Pretty sure Slapshot included you in that statement, buddy. Again, you avoid my post where I ask you for some facts that point to malicious intent by the AoC devs. I am fully open to it if someone can prove it to me. Otherwise it is just the usual "kickstarter is risky" statement. Which is obvious.
I don't usually get in these conversations cause I just don't care. I don't do kickstart any XXXXing thing so it dont effect me.
However, if 6 months from now something happen you would probably be the first person to cry and ask why the signs where there and nothing was done. I mean most people AFTER crimes are committed admit to seeing something fishy or saying they seen signs. Also, to me....kickstarter games in general have malicious intent. They promise you stuff they know from the get go they have no chance in hell of pulling off. Why? Your money. Whats risky is listening to people like you in life that will get you burned. Every game that come to KS gets more and more shadier. This one tops them all. I don't need proof. I have common sense to be aware of this company and game. Doesn't mean they will do anything wrong but it doesn't mean theres not either. The only thing obvious about kickstarter is it proves how many fools are in the world. And there are MILLIONS of them.
The only proof in your rant is that probably no one here is your buddy. Do you feel empowered by using it in the terms you did. When people want to try and belittle someone they always go to the words buddy, friend, bro, and the like. Ain't that right, buddy. Now respond and I will be back in 6 months to check the forums again. That is about how often I come here. Have a nice next half a year.
I feel like a lot of people might be getting paid to defend this game, in this thread.
Oh wait, they are just getting money from affiliate referrals.
Can you guys please put "SPONSORED" in your posts each time?
And could not the same be said in reverse about those so ardently deeming the referral system a "fraud" or "illegal" or "pushing the limits of the law"? Just stop. People are entitled to defend something they feel passionate about just as much as you can (and do) regarding "whistle-blowing" about what you personally perceive as an issue with Ashes.
I feel like a lot of people might be getting paid to defend this game, in this thread.
Oh wait, they are just getting money from affiliate referrals.
Can you guys please put "SPONSORED" in your posts each time?
And could not the same be said in reverse about those so ardently deeming the referral system a "fraud" or "illegal" or "pushing the limits of the law"? Just stop. People are entitled to defend something they feel passionate about just as much as you can (and do) regarding "whistle-blowing" about what you personally perceive as an issue with Ashes.
Don't go looking for conspiracies.
I'm not really looking for conspiracies I'm just skeptical and I can be skeptical of something, can't I?
I know you've expressed personal dislike for me before but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. The other side has accused anyone speaking negatively as "having an agenda" or being "paid by a competitor" In the second post Intrepid staff accuses that person of being a "competitor hired shill": http://archive.is/DXQRm
What treatment is that? There are people on both sides of the issue "tilting" at their cause and tons of others who don't have a horse in the race. Most people are adept at determining which ones are which and will draw their own conclusions about the issue when more information is available.
It was unnecessary to accuse anyone who is defending the game as being "paid" to do so or somehow insinuating that they are somehow being "sponsored" when it is as equally true of the converse opinion.
Everyone needs to keep it civil. Sometimes the best course of action is to agree to disagree with people and call it a day. Arguing back and forth when neither side will be convinced to change their opinion is just futile...though we appreciate the page hits.
I feel like a lot of people might be getting paid to defend this game, in this thread.
Oh wait, they are just getting money from affiliate referrals.
Can you guys please put "SPONSORED" in your posts each time?
And could not the same be said in reverse about those so ardently deeming the referral system a "fraud" or "illegal" or "pushing the limits of the law"? Just stop. People are entitled to defend something they feel passionate about just as much as you can (and do) regarding "whistle-blowing" about what you personally perceive as an issue with Ashes.
Don't go looking for conspiracies.
I'm not really looking for conspiracies I'm just skeptical and I can be skeptical of something, can't I?
I know you've expressed personal dislike for me before but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. The other side has accused anyone speaking negatively as "having an agenda" or being "paid by a competitor" In the second post Intrepid staff accuses that person of being a "competitor hired shill": http://archive.is/DXQRm
I don't have an opinion of you one way or another. I disagreed with you posting numerous threads on the same, or similar, topics. I don't know you and have no issue with anyone who stays within the boundaries of the forum rules and who can post without insulting or snidely "joking" at others' expense.
Comments
Also, if somebody who is a part of an "illegal" enterprise comes knocking on my door, I am letting someone in an empowered position know about it.
Unless of course it's not illegal at all, and it's just a part of this narrative I've created in order to validate my world view.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Heck Star Citizen has its own conventions. How do you think they pay for that?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
They would only get in trouble if they said something like... I don't know... 'you could earn $10,000 through our referrals program', and it turned out this figure was impractical to reach due to how the referral scheme was set up.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Until then, you are coming off as somewhat hot on the draw.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
...perhaps you can see why it looks to an outsider like me that the critical segment to Ashes of Creation has gone off the deep end. At this stage, you are just throwing everything you can think of against the wall and hoping that something sticks.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Even I am a skeptic on if they can deliver or not. However I am 100% sure it isn't a scam at this point.
Anyhow, as scintillating is to watch you argue over the best format for setting up your future pyramid schemes... anyone heard from PCGamer or the author?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
He is likely seeking to get an "air tight" official statement from them that won't be disputable as it would likely be in the form of email or recording.
First off, are you a lawyer or otherwise a licensed legal expert?
Also let me tell you all about how I would TOTALLY beat up the schoolyard bully.
I've theorycrafted spreadsheets and everything.
Maybe real life is a little bit harder than that, hmm?
However, if 6 months from now something happen you would probably be the first person to cry and ask why the signs where there and nothing was done. I mean most people AFTER crimes are committed admit to seeing something fishy or saying they seen signs. Also, to me....kickstarter games in general have malicious intent. They promise you stuff they know from the get go they have no chance in hell of pulling off. Why? Your money. Whats risky is listening to people like you in life that will get you burned. Every game that come to KS gets more and more shadier. This one tops them all. I don't need proof. I have common sense to be aware of this company and game. Doesn't mean they will do anything wrong but it doesn't mean theres not either. The only thing obvious about kickstarter is it proves how many fools are in the world. And there are MILLIONS of them.
The only proof in your rant is that probably no one here is your buddy. Do you feel empowered by using it in the terms you did. When people want to try and belittle someone they always go to the words buddy, friend, bro, and the like. Ain't that right, buddy. Now respond and I will be back in 6 months to check the forums again. That is about how often I come here. Have a nice next half a year.
Oh wait, they are just getting money from affiliate referrals.
Can you guys please put "SPONSORED" in your posts each time?
Don't go looking for conspiracies.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I know you've expressed personal dislike for me before but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. The other side has accused anyone speaking negatively as "having an agenda" or being "paid by a competitor" In the second post Intrepid staff accuses that person of being a "competitor hired shill": http://archive.is/DXQRm
It was unnecessary to accuse anyone who is defending the game as being "paid" to do so or somehow insinuating that they are somehow being "sponsored" when it is as equally true of the converse opinion.
Everyone needs to keep it civil. Sometimes the best course of action is to agree to disagree with people and call it a day. Arguing back and forth when neither side will be convinced to change their opinion is just futile...though we appreciate the page hits.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯