Kickstarter has stated that one time financial rewards are acceptable for package pledges on Kickstarter. This was also a part in the PCGamer article,
I reached out to Kickstarter to see what their policy is on the matter.
"Last year we began allowing financial incentives for referrals," they
responded. "But we do not allow revenue or profit sharing, which this
program essentially offers through its payouts over time."
As such, Kickstarter asked us to change the language on our referral program.
The PCGamer was incorrect however in stating;
In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed
Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its
referral program.
This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer. MassivelyOP has now today issued an article based on the PCGamer reporting.
Pledges from Kickstarter
Let me be clear on another point;
-snip-
What is not cool, is the character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to our community or our studios. We are more than that as a community. If you have legitimate concerns or comments, by all means voice them. But try to remember, there are real human beings behind these computer screens.
Given the confirmation from Kickstarter will you now publicly apologize for saying he was lying and the other aspersions you cast at him on this site, Discord, and elsewhere?
And about that last paragraph... the author is a human being too. Maybe keep that in mind before any future character assassinations are considered.
He said it was a lie they were forced to remove the pledge referrals from kickstarter reimbursement. Considering they didn't, I don't see why he'd have to apologize for that.
Really? You're still going to be an apologist? He didn't just say the article was wrong... he said it was a LIE. Words have meaning. If not, please describe the LIE that the author made.
To the best of my knowledge... everything that PCGamer wrote was correct. Kickstarter DID tell them exactly what they said.
The problem was that KS seems to have told Intrepid to remove the pledges from the referrals (exactly as PCGamer stated) but Intrepid did not do this. They either misunderstood what was requested, or intentionally obfuscated.
So again.. as far as I can read it seems that:
PCGamer was correct is everything they posted
Kickstarter told Intrepid to change their referrals for pledges
Intrepid did not change them
Since everyone involved is making money off it (including me), no action will be taken
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Steven Sharif apparently lied to us and called Steven Messner a liar.
Steven Sharif has lost integrity.
Steven Sharif should now apologize.
Again... where does the author go to get his good name back? There was a lot of character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to the author on here, on the Discord, and elsewhere. Much of it done by people reading this thread. Will they publicly apologize? Because, as Steven said... that kind of stuff is "not cool". The author has now been proven to NOT have lied and to again quote Steven, the author is a "real human being".
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Really? You're still going to be an apologist? He didn't just say the article was wrong... he said it was a LIE. Words have meaning. If not, please describe the LIE that the author made.
To the best of my knowledge... everything that PCGamer wrote was correct. Kickstarter DID tell them exactly what they said.
The problem was that KS seems to have told Intrepid to remove the pledges from the referrals (exactly as PCGamer stated) but Intrepid did not do this. They either misunderstood what was requested, or intentionally obfuscated.
So again.. as far I I can read that:
PCGamer was correct is everything they posted
Kickstarter told Intrepid to change their referrals for pledges
Intrepid did not change them
Since everyone involved is making money off it (including me), no action will be taken
An apologist? LMAO From the guy always going on and on about personal attacks...
there was no due diligence in finding out if those pledges were actually removed prior to reporting they were. Considering that is the most important item from this article, that's all that mattered. Such false reporting could have lead many to pull their donations ( you yourself were ready to do just that after that article). So no I do not feel he is owed an apology. It's his job to find that information to confirm what he's reporting.
Instead he let it stew for an extended holiday weekend all for clicks.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Kickstarter has stated that one time financial rewards are acceptable for package pledges on Kickstarter. This was also a part in the PCGamer article,
I reached out to Kickstarter to see what their policy is on the matter.
"Last year we began allowing financial incentives for referrals," they
responded. "But we do not allow revenue or profit sharing, which this
program essentially offers through its payouts over time."
As such, Kickstarter asked us to change the language on our referral program.
The PCGamer was incorrect however in stating;
In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed
Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its
referral program.
This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer. MassivelyOP has now today issued an article based on the PCGamer reporting.
Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.
Intrepid Studios is in close communications with Kickstarter, as we are now their 10th highest funded Video Game project ever.
Let me be clear on another point;
It is COMPLETELY within your rights to be skeptical of our ability to deliver. It is 100% your choice to participate in our project at this stage or any other stage in the future. We do not want someone who is uncomfortable with Ashes of Creation to participate in our crowdsourcing. Everyone at Intrepid Studios is passionately working to make Ashes a game that will make every MMORPG player proud. Honestly, proud. If you disagree with a feature, or you don't like the referral program, do not participate in it.
What is not cool, is the character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to our community or our studios. We are more than that as a community. If you have legitimate concerns or comments, by all means voice them. But try to remember, there are real human beings behind these computer screens.
Steven Sharif apparently lied to us and called Steven Messner a liar.
Steven Sharif has lost integrity.
Steven Sharif should now apologize.
Again... where does the author go to get his good name back? There was a lot of character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to the author on here, on the Discord, and elsewhere. Much of it done by people reading this thread. Will they publicly apologize? Because, as Steven said... that kind of stuff is "not cool". The author has now been proven to NOT have lied and to again quote Steven, the author is a "real human being".
This is important and Steven Messner deserves an apology.
Steven Sharif apparently lied to us and called Steven Messner a liar.
Steven Sharif has lost integrity.
Steven Sharif should now apologize.
Again... where does the author go to get his good name back? There was a lot of character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to the author on here, on the Discord, and elsewhere. Much of it done by people reading this thread. Will they publicly apologize? Because, as Steven said... that kind of stuff is "not cool". The author has now been proven to NOT have lied and to again quote Steven, the author is a "real human being".
This is important and Steven Messner deserves an apology.
What's important is accuracy. Something Slap and yourself seem to care nothing about. The only entity here with something truly on the line was Intrepid. Their backers were told straight up they weren't getting something they paid in for, which could have had real fallout (far beyond comments on a formum page). It took almost a week for that error to be rectified. You folks really see nothing wrong in that?
I guess I'm just an apologist, not those strongly supporting that type of journalism.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Steven Sharif apparently lied to us and called Steven Messner a liar.
Steven Sharif has lost integrity.
Steven Sharif should now apologize.
Again... where does the author go to get his good name back? There was a lot of character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to the author on here, on the Discord, and elsewhere. Much of it done by people reading this thread. Will they publicly apologize? Because, as Steven said... that kind of stuff is "not cool". The author has now been proven to NOT have lied and to again quote Steven, the author is a "real human being".
This is important and Steven Messner deserves an apology.
What's important is accuracy. Something Slap and yourself seem to care nothing about. The only entity here with something truly on the line was Intrepid. Their backers were told straight up they weren't getting something they paid in for, which could have had real fallout (far beyond comments on a formum page). It took almost a week for that error to be rectified. You folks really see nothing wrong in that?
I guess I'm just an apologist, not those strongly supporting that type of journalism.
It took Kickstarter far too long to respond. They waited until the project funding ended.
I don't get the hate against kickstarter. I do not pledge to anything on Kickstarter. Its my choice. If I did, I know I probably am throwing away my money. But that's OK. Because I routinely throw away $70 minimum a week on booze, $50 dollars weekly on delivery pizza, $12 a week on energy drinks, $12 a week on Taco Bell. And you silly people are crying over a one time donation of $20-$100. Perspective people, perspective.
It took Kickstarter far too long to respond. They waited until the project funding ended.
Yes, yet The project lead said no one was being excluded from the pledge reimbursement long before that. Was there any action taken by Messner to let his readers know? It doesn't seem so. Instead he chose to let his angle sit for a week, after the KS had already ended. That is not what is expected of a respectable news agency. That's tabloid BS, aimed at prolonging the hysteria it creates.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It took Kickstarter far too long to respond. They waited until the project funding ended.
Yes, yet The project lead said no one was being excluded from the pledge reimbursement long before that. Was there any action taken by Messner to let his readers know? It doesn't seem so. Instead he chose to let his angle sit for a week, after the KS had already ended. That is not what is expected of a respectable news agency. That's tabloid BS, aimed at prolonging the hysteria it creates.
I'm not sure you fully understand.
PC Gamer originally spoke to Kickstarter who DID IN FACT tell them that they asked Intrepid Studios to remove pledges from their affiliate program.
Therefore, the PC Gamer article was accurate and was not "fake news."
That means, PC Gamer was confident in what they had posted and had really spoken to Kickstarter.
They then followed up with Kickstarter again and they were told once more that the information was true and correct. This means that PC Gamer did nothing wrong whatsoever but was subject to numerous character assassination attempts and attacks.
I think there was a miscommunication somewhere (either kickstarter, steven, or pcgamer). I am not convinced Steven just said we will remove the pledges and then didn't. Almost immediately after he was posting that it wasn't changing. Kickstarter seems to be a bit incompetent here though. They took like 5 days to respond to the issue and then they say someone broke the rules but just took no action? Then they go on to say they will refine their rules regarding referrals so was there some gray area there in the current rules?
IMO the blame should mostly be placed on kickstarter. Something seems fishy about it all. Either way I don't think PC Gamers author's integrity took too much of a hit here. Only us in this forums were discussing this in detail as far as I have seen. He updated, although very late, so it should be all good.
I think there was a miscommunication somewhere (either kickstarter, steven, or pcgamer). I am not convinced Steven just said we will remove the pledges and then didn't. Almost immediately after he was posting that it wasn't changing. Kickstarter seems to be a bit incompetent here though. They took like 5 days to respond to the issue and then they say someone broke the rules but just took no action? Then they go on to say they will refine their rules regarding referrals so was there some gray area there in the current rules?
IMO the blame should mostly be placed on kickstarter. Something seems fishy about it all. Either way I don't think PC Gamers author's integrity took too much of a hit here. Only us in this forums were discussing this in detail as far as I have seen. He updated, although very late, so it should be all good.
You should apologize and PC Gamer was completely accurate while you sat here and attacked them post after post when in fact everything on that article was accurate. You are not in a position to defend anyone any longer.
You should be a man and apologize for what was said. The blame falls on Kickstarter and Intrepid. Intrepid did not follow the rules or the request of Kickstarter. Intrepid told Kickstarter they were complying and bought time.
" Kickstarter’s director of communications, David Gallagher, told me in an email. “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program, making it entirely separate from the Kickstarter project, which we saw as an acceptable solution. "
It took Kickstarter far too long to respond. They waited until the project funding ended.
Yes, yet The project lead said no one was being excluded from the pledge reimbursement long before that. Was there any action taken by Messner to let his readers know? It doesn't seem so. Instead he chose to let his angle sit for a week, after the KS had already ended. That is not what is expected of a respectable news agency. That's tabloid BS, aimed at prolonging the hysteria it creates.
I'm not sure you fully understand.
PC Gamer originally spoke to Kickstarter who DID IN FACT tell them that they asked Intrepid Studios to remove pledges from their affiliate program.
Therefore, the PC Gamer article was accurate and was not "fake news."
That means, PC Gamer was confident in what they had posted and had really spoken to Kickstarter.
They then followed up with Kickstarter again and they were told once more that the information was true and correct. This means that PC Gamer did nothing wrong whatsoever but was subject to numerous character assassination attempts and attacks.
I know exactly what happened. WHat you don't seem to understand is that "reporting" means giving both sides of a story, he didn't do that, he sat on those reactions and revelations for an extended amount of time. It's not just about waiting for KS. it's about getting at what is really going on. He didn't give that angle at all. EVen in his end piece he didn't even stress that he was wrong about folks losing out on the most pertinent issue here, reimbursement. That was the entire crux of this piece, and all that mattered in it. Not the he said, he said....
That's why I call it tabloid BS, it was self serving in capitalizing off the hysteria, not a piece trying to spread the truth.. Look at Massively's coverage, they did it right. They updated their piece to reflect things that came up. Had Messner done that I wouldn't be saying what I am now.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It took Kickstarter far too long to respond. They waited until the project funding ended.
Yes, yet The project lead said no one was being excluded from the pledge reimbursement long before that. Was there any action taken by Messner to let his readers know? It doesn't seem so. Instead he chose to let his angle sit for a week, after the KS had already ended. That is not what is expected of a respectable news agency. That's tabloid BS, aimed at prolonging the hysteria it creates.
I'm not sure you fully understand.
PC Gamer originally spoke to Kickstarter who DID IN FACT tell them that they asked Intrepid Studios to remove pledges from their affiliate program.
Therefore, the PC Gamer article was accurate and was not "fake news."
That means, PC Gamer was confident in what they had posted and had really spoken to Kickstarter.
They then followed up with Kickstarter again and they were told once more that the information was true and correct. This means that PC Gamer did nothing wrong whatsoever but was subject to numerous character assassination attempts and attacks.
I know exactly what happened. WHat you don't seem to understand is that "reporting" means giving both sides of a story, he didn't do that, he sat on those reactions and revelations for an extended amount of time. It's not just about waiting for KS. it's about getting at what is really going on. He didn't give that angle at all. EVen in his end piece he didn't even stress that he was wrong about folks losing out on the most pertinent issue here, reimbursement. That was the entire crux of this piece, and all that mattered in it. Not the he said, he said....
That's why I call it tabloid BS, it was self serving in capitalizing off the hysteria, not a piece trying to spread the truth.. Look at Massively's coverage, they did it right. They updated their piece to reflect things that came up. Had Messner done that I wouldn't be saying what I am now.
People here called for him to lose his job when everything he posted was accurate. You have no leg to stand on and any attempt to say he's "wrong" at this point only makes you and those that attacked the guy look that much worse.
I'm not even going to bother responding to your post directly it's a mess and a joke.
It took Kickstarter far too long to respond. They waited until the project funding ended.
Yes, yet The project lead said no one was being excluded from the pledge reimbursement long before that. Was there any action taken by Messner to let his readers know? It doesn't seem so. Instead he chose to let his angle sit for a week, after the KS had already ended. That is not what is expected of a respectable news agency. That's tabloid BS, aimed at prolonging the hysteria it creates.
I'm not sure you fully understand.
PC Gamer originally spoke to Kickstarter who DID IN FACT tell them that they asked Intrepid Studios to remove pledges from their affiliate program.
Therefore, the PC Gamer article was accurate and was not "fake news."
That means, PC Gamer was confident in what they had posted and had really spoken to Kickstarter.
They then followed up with Kickstarter again and they were told once more that the information was true and correct. This means that PC Gamer did nothing wrong whatsoever but was subject to numerous character assassination attempts and attacks.
I know exactly what happened. WHat you don't seem to understand is that "reporting" means giving both sides of a story, he didn't do that, he sat on those reactions and revelations for an extended amount of time. It's not just about waiting for KS. it's about getting at what is really going on. He didn't give that angle at all. EVen in his end piece he didn't even stress that he was wrong about folks losing out on the most pertinent issue here, reimbursement. That was the entire crux of this piece, and all that mattered in it. Not the he said, he said....
That's why I call it tabloid BS, it was self serving in capitalizing off the hysteria, not a piece trying to spread the truth.. Look at Massively's coverage, they did it right. They updated their piece to reflect things that came up. Had Messner done that I wouldn't be saying what I am now.
People here called for him to lose his job when everything he posted was accurate. You have no leg to stand on and any attempt to say he's "wrong" at this point only makes you and those that attacked the guy look that much worse.
I'm not even going to bother responding to your post directly it's a mess and a joke.
People in this very thread called him incompetent and accused him of libel. Some were even nice enough to copy and paste the definition for us. Much worse was said elsewhere... in places that are hosted by people who claim to be against "character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness"
The best part is that i have yet to see a single person who supported Steven call on him to explain WHY Kickstarter is saying he did NOT follow their rules. Is Kickstarter now lying? If not, was it simple incompetence or intentional obfuscation that resulted in Intrepid not following the rules (per the quotes from Kickstarter)?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't get the hate against kickstarter. I do not pledge to anything on Kickstarter. Its my choice. If I did, I know I probably am throwing away my money. But that's OK. Because I routinely throw away $70 minimum a week on booze, $50 dollars weekly on delivery pizza, $12 a week on energy drinks, $12 a week on Taco Bell. And you silly people are crying over a one time donation of $20-$100. Perspective people, perspective.
BUT BUT BUT its a computer game so thats somehow diiiiiiferent........
It makes me an investor, uhh, it gives me creative control, uhhh.
Lol ya I totally agree dude watching people flip the fuk out because they drop a little cash on a kickstarter is amusing.
It took Kickstarter far too long to respond. They waited until the project funding ended.
Yes, yet The project lead said no one was being excluded from the pledge reimbursement long before that. Was there any action taken by Messner to let his readers know? It doesn't seem so. Instead he chose to let his angle sit for a week, after the KS had already ended. That is not what is expected of a respectable news agency. That's tabloid BS, aimed at prolonging the hysteria it creates.
I'm not sure you fully understand.
PC Gamer originally spoke to Kickstarter who DID IN FACT tell them that they asked Intrepid Studios to remove pledges from their affiliate program.
Therefore, the PC Gamer article was accurate and was not "fake news."
That means, PC Gamer was confident in what they had posted and had really spoken to Kickstarter.
They then followed up with Kickstarter again and they were told once more that the information was true and correct. This means that PC Gamer did nothing wrong whatsoever but was subject to numerous character assassination attempts and attacks.
I know exactly what happened. WHat you don't seem to understand is that "reporting" means giving both sides of a story, he didn't do that, he sat on those reactions and revelations for an extended amount of time. It's not just about waiting for KS. it's about getting at what is really going on. He didn't give that angle at all. EVen in his end piece he didn't even stress that he was wrong about folks losing out on the most pertinent issue here, reimbursement. That was the entire crux of this piece, and all that mattered in it. Not the he said, he said....
That's why I call it tabloid BS, it was self serving in capitalizing off the hysteria, not a piece trying to spread the truth.. Look at Massively's coverage, they did it right. They updated their piece to reflect things that came up. Had Messner done that I wouldn't be saying what I am now.
People here called for him to lose his job when everything he posted was accurate. You have no leg to stand on and any attempt to say he's "wrong" at this point only makes you and those that attacked the guy look that much worse.
I'm not even going to bother responding to your post directly it's a mess and a joke.
You think it's a joke that a reporter should update statements that could have a detriment to a company, even when those statements are publicly refuted by said company? Really? How do you think that makes you look?
Who cares what people say on a forum one way or the other? That's any forum...
I never said he should lose his Job, I don't think he's very good at it though. He's either extremely lazy, or likes to create drama and let it stew. I'd bet on the latter, that certainly generates clicks.
What was hard to follow in my previous post?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think there was a miscommunication somewhere (either kickstarter, steven, or pcgamer). I am not convinced Steven just said we will remove the pledges and then didn't. Almost immediately after he was posting that it wasn't changing. Kickstarter seems to be a bit incompetent here though. They took like 5 days to respond to the issue and then they say someone broke the rules but just took no action? Then they go on to say they will refine their rules regarding referrals so was there some gray area there in the current rules?
IMO the blame should mostly be placed on kickstarter. Something seems fishy about it all. Either way I don't think PC Gamers author's integrity took too much of a hit here. Only us in this forums were discussing this in detail as far as I have seen. He updated, although very late, so it should be all good.
You should apologize and PC Gamer was completely accurate while you sat here and attacked them post after post when in fact everything on that article was accurate. You are not in a position to defend anyone any longer.
You should be a man and apologize for what was said. The blame falls on Kickstarter and Intrepid. Intrepid did not follow the rules or the request of Kickstarter. Intrepid told Kickstarter they were complying and bought time.
" Kickstarter’s director of communications, David Gallagher, told me in an email. “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program, making it entirely separate from the Kickstarter project, which we saw as an acceptable solution. "
This is disgusting.
Um, go back and read my posts. I never once said anything about the PC Gamer author lying. The only thing I did was ask Steven to come in and post what he had told me in discord. I constantly said I was curious as to what the author would say and was wondering why it was taking to long.
You act like someone has killed your dog bro. Not even the author seems to be upset.
I would like to mention though you guys immediately question Steven's words even though he posted here twice yet you take the author's words at face value. Why aren't you asking for proof from him? Pretty hypocritical. We have no sources or proof. Only his word.
It took Kickstarter far too long to respond. They waited until the project funding ended.
Yes, yet The project lead said no one was being excluded from the pledge reimbursement long before that. Was there any action taken by Messner to let his readers know? It doesn't seem so. Instead he chose to let his angle sit for a week, after the KS had already ended. That is not what is expected of a respectable news agency. That's tabloid BS, aimed at prolonging the hysteria it creates.
I'm not sure you fully understand.
PC Gamer originally spoke to Kickstarter who DID IN FACT tell them that they asked Intrepid Studios to remove pledges from their affiliate program.
Therefore, the PC Gamer article was accurate and was not "fake news."
That means, PC Gamer was confident in what they had posted and had really spoken to Kickstarter.
They then followed up with Kickstarter again and they were told once more that the information was true and correct. This means that PC Gamer did nothing wrong whatsoever but was subject to numerous character assassination attempts and attacks.
I know exactly what happened. WHat you don't seem to understand is that "reporting" means giving both sides of a story, he didn't do that, he sat on those reactions and revelations for an extended amount of time. It's not just about waiting for KS. it's about getting at what is really going on. He didn't give that angle at all. EVen in his end piece he didn't even stress that he was wrong about folks losing out on the most pertinent issue here, reimbursement. That was the entire crux of this piece, and all that mattered in it. Not the he said, he said....
That's why I call it tabloid BS, it was self serving in capitalizing off the hysteria, not a piece trying to spread the truth.. Look at Massively's coverage, they did it right. They updated their piece to reflect things that came up. Had Messner done that I wouldn't be saying what I am now.
People here called for him to lose his job when everything he posted was accurate. You have no leg to stand on and any attempt to say he's "wrong" at this point only makes you and those that attacked the guy look that much worse.
I'm not even going to bother responding to your post directly it's a mess and a joke.
You think it's a joke that a reporter should update statements that could have a detriment to a company, even when those statements are publicly refuted by said company? Really? How do you think that makes you look?
Who cares what people say on a forum one way or the other? That's any forum...
I never said he should lose his Job, I don't think he's very good at it though. He's either extremely lazy, or likes to create drama and let it stew. I'd bet on the latter, that certainly generates clicks.
What was hard to follow in my previous post?
What PCGamer (and thus the author) said was 100% true as far as I can tell.
Here is the great part: “The information I gave you is accurate, except, as I recently learned, the part where I said that this creator had excluded Kickstarter pledges from their referral program,” Kickstarter’s director of communications, David Gallagher, told me in an email. “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program, making it entirely separate from the Kickstarter project, which we saw as an acceptable solution. It appears that this did not happen. [Intrepid Studios] said this week that based on [their] communication with us, [they] believed it was fine to continue to include pledges. That was not correct.”
See that BOLDED part? That's Kickstarter clearly saying that Intrepid (Steven's company) told Kickstarter that "Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program"
So either Kickstarter is lying to PCGamer or Intrepid told something untrue to Kickstarter.
I wonder which is more likely...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
People in this very thread called him incompetent and accused him of libel. Some were even nice enough to copy and paste the definition for us. Much worse was said elsewhere... in places that are hosted by people who claim to be against "character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness"
The best part is that i have yet to see a single person who supported Steven call on him to explain WHY Kickstarter is saying he did NOT follow their rules. Is Kickstarter now lying? If not, was it simple incompetence or intentional obfuscation that resulted in Intrepid not following the rules (per the quotes from Kickstarter)?
It's up to KS to enforce their rules, so a better question is why did they not enforce them? Claiming anything other than "we let it slide to cash in as well" is pure BS. We all know that is why, had this been a project that didn't raise that kind of money we know things would have went differently.
The real dumb thing here is making statements like they did, yet turning around and letting it all slide. It's not like they can play that as a problem with Intrepid, as it's not Intrepid that is responsible for KS's actions or lack thereof. Nor the statements they give. If they had just said to begin with, we're not going to stop this, this article probably wouldn't exist.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think there was a miscommunication somewhere (either kickstarter, steven, or pcgamer). I am not convinced Steven just said we will remove the pledges and then didn't. Almost immediately after he was posting that it wasn't changing. Kickstarter seems to be a bit incompetent here though. They took like 5 days to respond to the issue and then they say someone broke the rules but just took no action? Then they go on to say they will refine their rules regarding referrals so was there some gray area there in the current rules?
IMO the blame should mostly be placed on kickstarter. Something seems fishy about it all. Either way I don't think PC Gamers author's integrity took too much of a hit here. Only us in this forums were discussing this in detail as far as I have seen. He updated, although very late, so it should be all good.
You should apologize and PC Gamer was completely accurate while you sat here and attacked them post after post when in fact everything on that article was accurate. You are not in a position to defend anyone any longer.
You should be a man and apologize for what was said. The blame falls on Kickstarter and Intrepid. Intrepid did not follow the rules or the request of Kickstarter. Intrepid told Kickstarter they were complying and bought time.
" Kickstarter’s director of communications, David Gallagher, told me in an email. “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program, making it entirely separate from the Kickstarter project, which we saw as an acceptable solution. "
This is disgusting.
Um, go back and read my posts. I never once said anything about the PC Gamer author lying. The only thing I did was ask Steven to come in and post what he had told me in discord. I constantly said I was curious as to what the author would say and was wondering why it was taking to long.
You act like someone has killed your dog bro. Not even the author seems to be upset.
I would like to mention though you guys immediately question Steven's words even though he posted here twice yet you take the author's words at face value. Why aren't you asking for proof from him? Pretty hypocritical. We have no sources or proof. Only his word.
Your go-to is to further discount what the author is saying? You don't know what you're doing do you?
It took Kickstarter far too long to respond. They waited until the project funding ended.
Yes, yet The project lead said no one was being excluded from the pledge reimbursement long before that. Was there any action taken by Messner to let his readers know? It doesn't seem so. Instead he chose to let his angle sit for a week, after the KS had already ended. That is not what is expected of a respectable news agency. That's tabloid BS, aimed at prolonging the hysteria it creates.
I'm not sure you fully understand.
PC Gamer originally spoke to Kickstarter who DID IN FACT tell them that they asked Intrepid Studios to remove pledges from their affiliate program.
Therefore, the PC Gamer article was accurate and was not "fake news."
That means, PC Gamer was confident in what they had posted and had really spoken to Kickstarter.
They then followed up with Kickstarter again and they were told once more that the information was true and correct. This means that PC Gamer did nothing wrong whatsoever but was subject to numerous character assassination attempts and attacks.
I know exactly what happened. WHat you don't seem to understand is that "reporting" means giving both sides of a story, he didn't do that, he sat on those reactions and revelations for an extended amount of time. It's not just about waiting for KS. it's about getting at what is really going on. He didn't give that angle at all. EVen in his end piece he didn't even stress that he was wrong about folks losing out on the most pertinent issue here, reimbursement. That was the entire crux of this piece, and all that mattered in it. Not the he said, he said....
That's why I call it tabloid BS, it was self serving in capitalizing off the hysteria, not a piece trying to spread the truth.. Look at Massively's coverage, they did it right. They updated their piece to reflect things that came up. Had Messner done that I wouldn't be saying what I am now.
People here called for him to lose his job when everything he posted was accurate. You have no leg to stand on and any attempt to say he's "wrong" at this point only makes you and those that attacked the guy look that much worse.
I'm not even going to bother responding to your post directly it's a mess and a joke.
People in this very thread called him incompetent and accused him of libel. Some were even nice enough to copy and paste the definition for us. Much worse was said elsewhere... in places that are hosted by people who claim to be against "character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness"
The best part is that i have yet to see a single person who supported Steven call on him to explain WHY Kickstarter is saying he did NOT follow their rules. Is Kickstarter now lying? If not, was it simple incompetence or intentional obfuscation that resulted in Intrepid not following the rules (per the quotes from Kickstarter)?
I'm not sure if Kickstarter knows.
Back on page 6, I said: "Steve thought it was OK to give back some of the KS funds raised, which clearly it isn't."
As far as I understood, redistributing some of the funds raised through Kickstarter among backers would have been... unprecedented. Then Steven himself shows up on page 7 and indicates that 'actually Kickstarter has been OK with it for about a year now as long as it's a one-time deal, and not revenue or profit sharing' (note the specific language here). However, since Ashes of Creation will purportedly be a subscription-based game, it's kind of hard to claim that the referral program won't result in "revenue" albeit a couple years in the future.
It's very strange, as the thing I imagined Kickstarter would frown on they're actually recently(?) OK with; it's the thing that might happen at some point in the future that seems very far removed from Kickstarter that makes them go "nuh-uh"(?)
Kickstarter generally seems to take a pretty hands-off approach, only stepping in if they have to. I think on some level Steven probably knew he was bending the rules, but thought he would get away with it.
That's my 2c, anyway.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Comments
To the best of my knowledge... everything that PCGamer wrote was correct. Kickstarter DID tell them exactly what they said.
The problem was that KS seems to have told Intrepid to remove the pledges from the referrals (exactly as PCGamer stated) but Intrepid did not do this. They either misunderstood what was requested, or intentionally obfuscated.
So again.. as far as I can read it seems that:
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Steven Sharif apparently lied to us and called Steven Messner a liar.
Steven Sharif has lost integrity.
Steven Sharif should now apologize.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
there was no due diligence in finding out if those pledges were actually removed prior to reporting they were. Considering that is the most important item from this article, that's all that mattered. Such false reporting could have lead many to pull their donations ( you yourself were ready to do just that after that article). So no I do not feel he is owed an apology. It's his job to find that information to confirm what he's reporting.
Instead he let it stew for an extended holiday weekend all for clicks.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I guess I'm just an apologist, not those strongly supporting that type of journalism.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
PC Gamer originally spoke to Kickstarter who DID IN FACT tell them that they asked Intrepid Studios to remove pledges from their affiliate program.
Therefore, the PC Gamer article was accurate and was not "fake news."
That means, PC Gamer was confident in what they had posted and had really spoken to Kickstarter.
They then followed up with Kickstarter again and they were told once more that the information was true and correct. This means that PC Gamer did nothing wrong whatsoever but was subject to numerous character assassination attempts and attacks.
IMO the blame should mostly be placed on kickstarter. Something seems fishy about it all. Either way I don't think PC Gamers author's integrity took too much of a hit here. Only us in this forums were discussing this in detail as far as I have seen. He updated, although very late, so it should be all good.
You should be a man and apologize for what was said. The blame falls on Kickstarter and Intrepid. Intrepid did not follow the rules or the request of Kickstarter. Intrepid told Kickstarter they were complying and bought time.
" Kickstarter’s director of communications, David Gallagher, told me in an email. “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program, making it entirely separate from the Kickstarter project, which we saw as an acceptable solution. "
This is disgusting.
That's why I call it tabloid BS, it was self serving in capitalizing off the hysteria, not a piece trying to spread the truth.. Look at Massively's coverage, they did it right. They updated their piece to reflect things that came up. Had Messner done that I wouldn't be saying what I am now.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm not even going to bother responding to your post directly it's a mess and a joke.
The best part is that i have yet to see a single person who supported Steven call on him to explain WHY Kickstarter is saying he did NOT follow their rules. Is Kickstarter now lying? If not, was it simple incompetence or intentional obfuscation that resulted in Intrepid not following the rules (per the quotes from Kickstarter)?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It makes me an investor, uhh, it gives me creative control, uhhh.
Lol ya I totally agree dude watching people flip the fuk out because they drop a little cash on a kickstarter is amusing.
Who cares what people say on a forum one way or the other? That's any forum...
I never said he should lose his Job, I don't think he's very good at it though. He's either extremely lazy, or likes to create drama and let it stew. I'd bet on the latter, that certainly generates clicks.
What was hard to follow in my previous post?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You act like someone has killed your dog bro. Not even the author seems to be upset.
I would like to mention though you guys immediately question Steven's words even though he posted here twice yet you take the author's words at face value. Why aren't you asking for proof from him? Pretty hypocritical. We have no sources or proof. Only his word.
Here is the great part:
“The information I gave you is accurate, except, as I recently learned, the part where I said that this creator had excluded Kickstarter pledges from their referral program,” Kickstarter’s director of communications, David Gallagher, told me in an email. “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program, making it entirely separate from the Kickstarter project, which we saw as an acceptable solution. It appears that this did not happen. [Intrepid Studios] said this week that based on [their] communication with us, [they] believed it was fine to continue to include pledges. That was not correct.”
See that BOLDED part? That's Kickstarter clearly saying that Intrepid (Steven's company) told Kickstarter that "Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program"
So either Kickstarter is lying to PCGamer or Intrepid told something untrue to Kickstarter.
I wonder which is more likely...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The real dumb thing here is making statements like they did, yet turning around and letting it all slide. It's not like they can play that as a problem with Intrepid, as it's not Intrepid that is responsible for KS's actions or lack thereof. Nor the statements they give. If they had just said to begin with, we're not going to stop this, this article probably wouldn't exist.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Your go-to is to further discount what the author is saying? You don't know what you're doing do you?
Back on page 6, I said: "Steve thought it was OK to give back some of the KS funds raised, which clearly it isn't."
As far as I understood, redistributing some of the funds raised through Kickstarter among backers would have been... unprecedented. Then Steven himself shows up on page 7 and indicates that 'actually Kickstarter has been OK with it for about a year now as long as it's a one-time deal, and not revenue or profit sharing' (note the specific language here). However, since Ashes of Creation will purportedly be a subscription-based game, it's kind of hard to claim that the referral program won't result in "revenue" albeit a couple years in the future.
It's very strange, as the thing I imagined Kickstarter would frown on they're actually recently(?) OK with; it's the thing that might happen at some point in the future that seems very far removed from Kickstarter that makes them go "nuh-uh"(?)
Kickstarter generally seems to take a pretty hands-off approach, only stepping in if they have to. I think on some level Steven probably knew he was bending the rules, but thought he would get away with it.
That's my 2c, anyway.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance