People in this very thread called him incompetent and accused him of libel. Some were even nice enough to copy and paste the definition for us. Much worse was said elsewhere... in places that are hosted by people who claim to be against "character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness"
The best part is that i have yet to see a single person who supported Steven call on him to explain WHY Kickstarter is saying he did NOT follow their rules. Is Kickstarter now lying? If not, was it simple incompetence or intentional obfuscation that resulted in Intrepid not following the rules (per the quotes from Kickstarter)?
It's up to KS to enforce their rules, so a better question is why did they not enforce them? Claiming anything other than "we let it slide to cash in as well" is pure BS. We all know that is why, had this been a project that didn't raise that kind of money we know things would have went differently.
The real dumb thing here is making statements like they did, yet turning around and letting it all slide. It's not like they can play that as a problem with Intrepid, as it's not Intrepid that is responsible for KS's actions or lack thereof. Nor the statements they give. If they had just said to begin with, we're not going to stop this, this article probably wouldn't exist.
I agree with the first part.
The second part I do not fully agree with based on the statement from Kickstarter that: “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program.
That's a quote directly from Kickstarter. IMHO that doesn't absolve Kickstarter from culpability, but again IMHO it means that Intrepid acted in a less than honest way (or were just incompetent) and people who defended them should question that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Kickstarter generally seems to take a pretty hands-off approach, only stepping in if they have to. I think on some level Steven probably knew he was bending the rules, but thought he would get away with it.
THIS is exactly my take on it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm on my phone, so I do not have a lot of quoting functionality available, but the lie that pcgamer posted in the original article, and subsequently has retracted per our request, was stating to our players and others, that our company has removed kickstarter from the rewards system.
PCGamer original quotes that were lies;
"As a result of Kickstarter enforcing its rules, the referral program is essentially useless since it no longer capitalizes on pledges through crowdfunding."
"which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. "
Retraction update from PCGamer
" As Sharif’s statement directly conflicted with what Kickstarter initially told me, I followed up with Kickstarter. This was the response, which confirms our initial reporting as accurate, but also acknowledges that Intrepid Studios did not remove Kickstarter pledges from the referral program" I'm curious how they confirmed their original reporting, when that reporting told our players something that was false. Either way, PCGamer and I will agree to disagree.
Happy to be with you fine ladies and gentlemen on MMORPG.com, hope to participate in healthy discussions about our favorite genre.
I'm on my phone, so I do not have a lot of quoting functionality available, but the lie that pcgamer posted in the original article, and subsequently has retracted per our request, was stating to our players and others, that our company has removed kickstarter from the rewards system.
PCGamer original quotes that were lies;
"As a result of Kickstarter enforcing its rules, the referral program is essentially useless since it no longer capitalizes on pledges through crowdfunding."
"which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. "
Retraction update from PCGamer
" As Sharif’s statement directly conflicted with what Kickstarter initially told me, I followed up with Kickstarter. This was the response, which confirms our initial reporting as accurate, but also acknowledges that Intrepid Studios did not remove Kickstarter pledges from the referral program" I'm curious how they confirmed their original reporting, when that reporting told our players something that was false. Either way, PCGamer and I will agree to disagree.
Exactly.
Seems like people here have memory issues about what the discussion on page 1 of this thread was all about.
It was the alleged removal of KS pledges from the referral program. That was what had slapshot musing about pulling his pledge.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm on my phone, so I do not have a lot of quoting functionality available, but the lie that pcgamer posted in the original article, and subsequently has retracted per our request, was stating to our players and others, that our company has removed kickstarter from the rewards system.
PCGamer original quotes that were lies;
"As a result of Kickstarter enforcing its rules, the referral program is essentially useless since it no longer capitalizes on pledges through crowdfunding."
"which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. "
Retraction update from PCGamer
" As Sharif’s statement directly conflicted with what Kickstarter initially told me, I followed up with Kickstarter. This was the response, which confirms our initial reporting as accurate, but also acknowledges that Intrepid Studios did not remove Kickstarter pledges from the referral program" I'm curious how they confirmed their original reporting, when that reporting told our players something that was false. Either way, PCGamer and I will agree to disagree.
Steven that is not correct... and you blatantly edited the quote above. HERE is the actual FULL quote: Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.
Kickstarter then CONFIRMED that this is what they told PCGamer: “The information I gave you is accurate, except, as I recently learned, the part where I said that this creator had excluded Kickstarter pledges from their referral program,” Kickstarter’s director of communications, David Gallagher, told me in an email. “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program, making it entirely separate from the Kickstarter project, which we saw as an acceptable solution. It appears that this did not happen. [Intrepid Studios] said this week that based on [their] communication with us, [they] believed it was fine to continue to include pledges. That was not correct.”
So PCGamer's quote was NOT a lie... it was accurate. The quote from Kickstarter is either a lie or you actually did tell that to Kickstarter. Your beef (if any) should be with KICKSTARTER if you feel THEY are lying.
Again, IMHO you owe the author and PCGamer an apology.. and if Kickstarter is LYING (see the bold quote above) you should confront them. If David Gallagher made that up and your company never told that to Kickstarter then that is serious, but you can clearly see above that his quote says Intrepid stated this to them.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"...which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program."
Was that a fact?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Intrepid Studios was absolutely honest and transparent with Kickstarter in regards to our rewards. As stated from KS they allow one time financial rewards.
Appearently there was miscommunication about what our referral reward system does. It is a one time reward in the form of reward points for purchases. All Kickstarter funds are quarantined for development costs only. The rewards points that could be redeemed for cash rewards are not allowed for redemption until our launch, which will then use non kickstarter funds to fulfill these redemptions.
The issue for me is that PCGamer never reached out to me for clarifications of these things or even to get my response on their reporting. In addition to the misreporting.
Either way,
This topic is now closed for me. I hope my transparency will shed light on this for you guys on mmorpg.com
Happy to be with you fine ladies and gentlemen on MMORPG.com, hope to participate in healthy discussions about our favorite genre.
"...which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program."
Was that a fact?
It was apparently a fact that this was the QUOTE from Kickstarter. So again, Steven's beef (if any) should be with Kickstarter for this and for saying that“[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program"
Either Kickstarter or Intrepid was in the wrong here... They either said they would remove them or they didn't.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"...which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program."
Was that a fact?
It was apparently a fact that this was the QUOTE from Kickstarter. So again, Steven's beef (if any) should be with Kickstarter for this and for saying that“[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program"
Either Kickstarter or Intrepid was in the wrong here... They either said they would remove them or they didn't.
But that is not what it says. The author, not kickstarter, is saying in the article that it has been removed.
He is reporting it as a fact. Not that KS said it was a fact but that he, as an investigative journalists, has done whatever it takes to verify that it is a fact.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm on my phone, so I do not have a lot of quoting functionality available, but the lie that pcgamer posted in the original article, and subsequently has retracted per our request, was stating to our players and others, that our company has removed kickstarter from the rewards system.
PCGamer original quotes that were lies;
"As a result of Kickstarter enforcing its rules, the referral program is essentially useless since it no longer capitalizes on pledges through crowdfunding."
"which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. "
Retraction update from PCGamer
" As Sharif’s statement directly conflicted with what Kickstarter initially told me, I followed up with Kickstarter. This was the response, which confirms our initial reporting as accurate, but also acknowledges that Intrepid Studios did not remove Kickstarter pledges from the referral program" I'm curious how they confirmed their original reporting, when that reporting told our players something that was false. Either way, PCGamer and I will agree to disagree.
We're not that stupid. Let me add the rest of the quote for you.
The following quote is true and correct:
In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program
What Steven Messner stated was that Kickstarter did tell him you removed pledges from their referral program which Kickstarter believed you had.
Kickstarter responded to Messner after you called him a liar:
“The information I gave you is accurate, except, as I recently learned, the part where I said that this creator had excluded Kickstarter pledges from their referral program,” Kickstarter’s director of communications, David Gallagher, told me in an email. “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program, making it entirely separate from the Kickstarter project, which we saw as an acceptable solution. It appears that this did not happen. [Intrepid Studios] said this week that based on [their] communication with us, [they] believed it was fine to continue to include pledges. That was not correct.”
All information given to Messner was what Kickstarter had told him. Kickstarter stated you even told them you removed pledges from the program. THAT was and remains a lie.
Unless you're saying David Gallagher is lying now?
People in this very thread called him incompetent and accused him of libel. Some were even nice enough to copy and paste the definition for us. Much worse was said elsewhere... in places that are hosted by people who claim to be against "character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness"
The best part is that i have yet to see a single person who supported Steven call on him to explain WHY Kickstarter is saying he did NOT follow their rules. Is Kickstarter now lying? If not, was it simple incompetence or intentional obfuscation that resulted in Intrepid not following the rules (per the quotes from Kickstarter)?
It's up to KS to enforce their rules, so a better question is why did they not enforce them? Claiming anything other than "we let it slide to cash in as well" is pure BS. We all know that is why, had this been a project that didn't raise that kind of money we know things would have went differently.
The real dumb thing here is making statements like they did, yet turning around and letting it all slide. It's not like they can play that as a problem with Intrepid, as it's not Intrepid that is responsible for KS's actions or lack thereof. Nor the statements they give. If they had just said to begin with, we're not going to stop this, this article probably wouldn't exist.
I agree with the first part.
The second part I do not fully agree with based on the statement from Kickstarter that: “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program.
That's a quote directly from Kickstarter. IMHO that doesn't absolve Kickstarter from culpability, but again IMHO it means that Intrepid acted in a less than honest way (or were just incompetent) and people who defended them should question that.
This is why I said the real issue is the issue of reimbursement, as that's the only thing we can tangibly look at and see as a matter of fact, people are getting reimbursement (well as far as we can see in regard to this debacle).
Whether we can say who's lying, who's mistaken, who broke the rules, it's all he said against he said. Who knows there.
I am a believer that KS projects shouldn't be allowed to pay out of KS funds for things like this (viral marketing). So I'd actually have preferred to see KS shut that down. Like they originally stated to have done.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Intrepid Studios was absolutely honest and transparent with Kickstarter in regards to our rewards. As stated from KS they allow one time financial rewards.
Appearently there was miscommunication about what our referral reward system does. It is a one time reward in the form of reward points for purchases. All Kickstarter funds are quarantined for development costs only. The rewards points that could be redeemed for cash rewards are not allowed for redemption until our launch, which will then use non kickstarter funds to fulfill these redemptions.
The issue for me is that PCGamer never reached out to me for clarifications of these things or even to get my response on their reporting. In addition to the misreporting.
Either way,
This topic is now closed for me. I hope my transparency will shed light on this for you guys on mmorpg.com
Seems more opaque than transparent, but whatever...
OK, a snake oil salesman (Itrepid) had a spat with a snake oil distributor (Kickstarter).
Intrepid Studios was absolutely honest and transparent with Kickstarter in regards to our rewards. As stated from KS they allow one time financial rewards.
Appearently there was miscommunication about what our referral reward system does. It is a one time reward in the form of reward points for purchases. All Kickstarter funds are quarantined for development costs only. The rewards points that could be redeemed for cash rewards are not allowed for redemption until our launch, which will then use non kickstarter funds to fulfill these redemptions.
The issue for me is that PCGamer never reached out to me for clarifications of these things or even to get my response on their reporting. In addition to the misreporting.
Either way,
This topic is now closed for me. I hope my transparency will shed light on this for you guys on mmorpg.com
“[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program," - David Gallagher, Kickstarter Director of Communications.
Intrepid Studios was absolutely honest and transparent with Kickstarter in regards to our rewards. As stated from KS they allow one time financial rewards.
Appearently there was miscommunication about what our referral reward system does. It is a one time reward in the form of reward points for purchases. All Kickstarter funds are quarantined for development costs only. The rewards points that could be redeemed for cash rewards are not allowed for redemption until our launch, which will then use non kickstarter funds to fulfill these redemptions.
The issue for me is that PCGamer never reached out to me for clarifications of these things or even to get my response on their reporting. In addition to the misreporting.
Either way,
This topic is now closed for me. I hope my transparency will shed light on this for you guys on mmorpg.com
“[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program," - David Gallagher, Kickstarter Director of Communications.
And did the author verify that it was in fact removed?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Intrepid Studios was absolutely honest and transparent with Kickstarter in regards to our rewards. As stated from KS they allow one time financial rewards.
Appearently there was miscommunication about what our referral reward system does. It is a one time reward in the form of reward points for purchases. All Kickstarter funds are quarantined for development costs only. The rewards points that could be redeemed for cash rewards are not allowed for redemption until our launch, which will then use non kickstarter funds to fulfill these redemptions.
The issue for me is that PCGamer never reached out to me for clarifications of these things or even to get my response on their reporting. In addition to the misreporting.
Either way,
This topic is now closed for me. I hope my transparency will shed light on this for you guys on mmorpg.com
Seems more opaque than transparent, but whatever...
OK, a snake oil salesman (Itrepid) had a spat with a snake oil distributor (Kickstarter).
Just another day in the den of thieves. Carry on.
I have to say I was impressed in the way he diced up the quotes and spun it all around. It takes a specific set of skills. Skills acquired over a very long career.
Intrepid Studios was absolutely honest and transparent with Kickstarter in regards to our rewards. As stated from KS they allow one time financial rewards.
Appearently there was miscommunication about what our referral reward system does. It is a one time reward in the form of reward points for purchases. All Kickstarter funds are quarantined for development costs only. The rewards points that could be redeemed for cash rewards are not allowed for redemption until our launch, which will then use non kickstarter funds to fulfill these redemptions.
The issue for me is that PCGamer never reached out to me for clarifications of these things or even to get my response on their reporting. In addition to the misreporting.
Either way,
This topic is now closed for me. I hope my transparency will shed light on this for you guys on mmorpg.com
Seems more opaque than transparent, but whatever...
OK, a snake oil salesman (Itrepid) had a spat with a snake oil distributor (Kickstarter).
Just another day in the den of thieves. Carry on.
HAHA!
Because sometimes a LOL isn't good enough. I don't have anything against KS honestly, but that was good...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Intrepid Studios was absolutely honest and transparent with Kickstarter in regards to our rewards. As stated from KS they allow one time financial rewards.
Appearently there was miscommunication about what our referral reward system does. It is a one time reward in the form of reward points for purchases. All Kickstarter funds are quarantined for development costs only. The rewards points that could be redeemed for cash rewards are not allowed for redemption until our launch, which will then use non kickstarter funds to fulfill these redemptions.
The issue for me is that PCGamer never reached out to me for clarifications of these things or even to get my response on their reporting. In addition to the misreporting.
Either way,
This topic is now closed for me. I hope my transparency will shed light on this for you guys on mmorpg.com
“[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program," - David Gallagher, Kickstarter Director of Communications.
And did the author verify that it was in fact removed?
I'm on my phone, so I do not have a lot of quoting functionality available, but the lie that pcgamer posted in the original article, and subsequently has retracted per our request, was stating to our players and others, that our company has removed kickstarter from the rewards system.
PCGamer original quotes that were lies;
"As a result of Kickstarter enforcing its rules, the referral program is essentially useless since it no longer capitalizes on pledges through crowdfunding."
"which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. "
Retraction update from PCGamer
" As Sharif’s statement directly conflicted with what Kickstarter initially told me, I followed up with Kickstarter. This was the response, which confirms our initial reporting as accurate, but also acknowledges that Intrepid Studios did not remove Kickstarter pledges from the referral program" I'm curious how they confirmed their original reporting, when that reporting told our players something that was false. Either way, PCGamer and I will agree to disagree.
Are you done? Are you done lying? Because that doesn't help you at all.
I'm on my phone, so I do not have a lot of quoting functionality available, but the lie that pcgamer posted in the original article, and subsequently has retracted per our request, was stating to our players and others, that our company has removed kickstarter from the rewards system.
PCGamer original quotes that were lies;
"As a result of Kickstarter enforcing its rules, the referral program is essentially useless since it no longer capitalizes on pledges through crowdfunding."
"which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. "
Retraction update from PCGamer
" As Sharif’s statement directly conflicted with what Kickstarter initially told me, I followed up with Kickstarter. This was the response, which confirms our initial reporting as accurate, but also acknowledges that Intrepid Studios did not remove Kickstarter pledges from the referral program" I'm curious how they confirmed their original reporting, when that reporting told our players something that was false. Either way, PCGamer and I will agree to disagree.
Kickstarter was running the campaign on your behalf, and they will be the ones to collect all the money on your behalf. At that point Kickstarter is representing you and any information they release is official information.
If Kickstarter made some comments about your game or the campaign they shouldn't have made, then take it up with Kickstarter. But claiming that PC Gamer should have further verified Kickstarter's claims about a Kickstarter campaign is ridiculous.
Whether PC Gamer should have updated their article somehow when it became apparent that Kickstarter and Intrepid Studios had different opinions about the referral rules is a different matter.
“[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program," - David Gallagher, Kickstarter Director of Communications.
And did the author verify that it was in fact removed?
Your level of Snake-oil Salesman has increased.
So... were they removed from the referral program or not? It's not a tough question.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
“[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program," - David Gallagher, Kickstarter Director of Communications.
And did the author verify that it was in fact removed?
Your level of Snake-oil Salesman has increased.
So... were they removed from the referral program or not? It's not a tough question.
I think you fail to see the whole picture here or are deliberately trying to force us into thinking with one track minds.
The point is, Steven Sharif called Steven Messner a liar when he was only reporting the information Kickstarter gave him. That information was not modified, edited, or changed and was what David Gallagher had stated.
Kickstarter believed they removed the pledges from the program and they [Intrepid] even TOLD them they had removed them.
The issue is not whether they were removed anymore.
What this is about is Intrepid's loss of integrity and whether or not we can continue to trust them.
I'm on my phone, so I do not have a lot of quoting functionality available, but the lie that pcgamer posted in the original article, and subsequently has retracted per our request, was stating to our players and others, that our company has removed kickstarter from the rewards system.
PCGamer original quotes that were lies;
"As a result of Kickstarter enforcing its rules, the referral program is essentially useless since it no longer capitalizes on pledges through crowdfunding."
"which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. "
Retraction update from PCGamer
" As Sharif’s statement directly conflicted with what Kickstarter initially told me, I followed up with Kickstarter. This was the response, which confirms our initial reporting as accurate, but also acknowledges that Intrepid Studios did not remove Kickstarter pledges from the referral program" I'm curious how they confirmed their original reporting, when that reporting told our players something that was false. Either way, PCGamer and I will agree to disagree.
Are you done? Are you done lying? Because that doesn't help you at all.
To be a lie it has to be in fact false, they're still rewarding KS backers though. This is the only part I have to agree with Intrepid on in all of this. How KS and in turn PCgamer responded, sent a false pretense to backers, that they were not being reimbursed as they assumed they were.
That's the part that should have been the focus of this story and how it transpired. It deserved far more focus than it got, it's the only part of this that matters; in that it has real consequence for both intrepid as well as more importantly, it's backers. Instead all attention is on who said what..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
“[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program," - David Gallagher, Kickstarter Director of Communications.
And did the author verify that it was in fact removed?
Your level of Snake-oil Salesman has increased.
So... were they removed from the referral program or not? It's not a tough question.
I think you fail to see the whole picture here or are deliberately trying to force us into thinking with one track minds.
The point is, Steven Sharif called Steven Messner a liar when he was only reporting the information Kickstarter gave him. That information was not modified, edited, or changed and was what David Gallagher had stated.
Kickstarter believed they removed the pledges from the program and they [Intrepid] even TOLD them they had removed them.
The issue is not whether they were removed anymore.
What this is about is Intrepid's loss of integrity and whether or not we can continue to trust them.
No. That's your spin that fits into your campaign.
If I am reporting something as fact, I don't rely on a statement from one source. I do my due diligence and verify it independently. It's how the world of journalism works.
You just want to continuously move the goalposts to fit your narrative.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
“[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program," - David Gallagher, Kickstarter Director of Communications.
And did the author verify that it was in fact removed?
Your level of Snake-oil Salesman has increased.
So... were they removed from the referral program or not? It's not a tough question.
I think you fail to see the whole picture here or are deliberately trying to force us into thinking with one track minds.
The point is, Steven Sharif called Steven Messner a liar when he was only reporting the information Kickstarter gave him. That information was not modified, edited, or changed and was what David Gallagher had stated.
Kickstarter believed they removed the pledges from the program and they [Intrepid] even TOLD them they had removed them.
The issue is not whether they were removed anymore.
What this is about is Intrepid's loss of integrity and whether or not we can continue to trust them.
No. That's your spin that fits into your campaign.
If I am reporting something as fact, I don't rely on a statement from one source. I do my due diligence and verify it independently. It's how the world of journalism works.
You just want to continuously move the goalposts to fit your narrative.
Exactly....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
The second part I do not fully agree with based on the statement from Kickstarter that: “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program.
That's a quote directly from Kickstarter. IMHO that doesn't absolve Kickstarter from culpability, but again IMHO it means that Intrepid acted in a less than honest way (or were just incompetent) and people who defended them should question that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
PCGamer original quotes that were lies;
"As a result of Kickstarter enforcing its rules, the referral program is essentially useless since it no longer capitalizes on pledges through crowdfunding."
"which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. "
Retraction update from PCGamer
" As Sharif’s statement directly conflicted with what Kickstarter initially told me, I followed up with Kickstarter. This was the response, which confirms our initial reporting as accurate, but also acknowledges that Intrepid Studios did not remove Kickstarter pledges from the referral program"
I'm curious how they confirmed their original reporting, when that reporting told our players something that was false.
Either way, PCGamer and I will agree to disagree.
Founder/Creative Director @ Intrepid Studios
Building upcoming MMORPG Ashes of Creation
Discord
Seems like people here have memory issues about what the discussion on page 1 of this thread was all about.
It was the alleged removal of KS pledges from the referral program. That was what had slapshot musing about pulling his pledge.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.
Kickstarter then CONFIRMED that this is what they told PCGamer:
“The information I gave you is accurate, except, as I recently learned, the part where I said that this creator had excluded Kickstarter pledges from their referral program,” Kickstarter’s director of communications, David Gallagher, told me in an email. “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program, making it entirely separate from the Kickstarter project, which we saw as an acceptable solution. It appears that this did not happen. [Intrepid Studios] said this week that based on [their] communication with us, [they] believed it was fine to continue to include pledges. That was not correct.”
So PCGamer's quote was NOT a lie... it was accurate. The quote from Kickstarter is either a lie or you actually did tell that to Kickstarter. Your beef (if any) should be with KICKSTARTER if you feel THEY are lying.
Again, IMHO you owe the author and PCGamer an apology.. and if Kickstarter is LYING (see the bold quote above) you should confront them. If David Gallagher made that up and your company never told that to Kickstarter then that is serious, but you can clearly see above that his quote says Intrepid stated this to them.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Intrepid Studios was absolutely honest and transparent with Kickstarter in regards to our rewards. As stated from KS they allow one time financial rewards.
Appearently there was miscommunication about what our referral reward system does. It is a one time reward in the form of reward points for purchases. All Kickstarter funds are quarantined for development costs only. The rewards points that could be redeemed for cash rewards are not allowed for redemption until our launch, which will then use non kickstarter funds to fulfill these redemptions.
The issue for me is that PCGamer never reached out to me for clarifications of these things or even to get my response on their reporting. In addition to the misreporting.
Either way,
This topic is now closed for me. I hope my transparency will shed light on this for you guys on mmorpg.com
Founder/Creative Director @ Intrepid Studios
Building upcoming MMORPG Ashes of Creation
Discord
Either Kickstarter or Intrepid was in the wrong here...
They either said they would remove them or they didn't.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
He is reporting it as a fact. Not that KS said it was a fact but that he, as an investigative journalists, has done whatever it takes to verify that it is a fact.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The following quote is true and correct:
In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program
What Steven Messner stated was that Kickstarter did tell him you removed pledges from their referral program which Kickstarter believed you had.
Kickstarter responded to Messner after you called him a liar:
“The information I gave you is accurate, except, as I recently learned, the part where I said that this creator had excluded Kickstarter pledges from their referral program,” Kickstarter’s director of communications, David Gallagher, told me in an email. “[Intrepid Studios] told us that Kickstarter pledges would be removed from the program, making it entirely separate from the Kickstarter project, which we saw as an acceptable solution. It appears that this did not happen. [Intrepid Studios] said this week that based on [their] communication with us, [they] believed it was fine to continue to include pledges. That was not correct.”
All information given to Messner was what Kickstarter had told him. Kickstarter stated you even told them you removed pledges from the program. THAT was and remains a lie.
Unless you're saying David Gallagher is lying now?
Whether we can say who's lying, who's mistaken, who broke the rules, it's all he said against he said. Who knows there.
I am a believer that KS projects shouldn't be allowed to pay out of KS funds for things like this (viral marketing). So I'd actually have preferred to see KS shut that down. Like they originally stated to have done.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Seems more opaque than transparent, but whatever...
OK, a snake oil salesman (Itrepid) had a spat with a snake oil distributor (Kickstarter).
Just another day in the den of thieves. Carry on.
~~ postlarval ~~
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Because sometimes a LOL isn't good enough. I don't have anything against KS honestly, but that was good...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Are you done? Are you done lying? Because that doesn't help you at all.
Kickstarter was running the campaign on your behalf, and they will be the ones to collect all the money on your behalf. At that point Kickstarter is representing you and any information they release is official information.
If Kickstarter made some comments about your game or the campaign they shouldn't have made, then take it up with Kickstarter. But claiming that PC Gamer should have further verified Kickstarter's claims about a Kickstarter campaign is ridiculous.
Whether PC Gamer should have updated their article somehow when it became apparent that Kickstarter and Intrepid Studios had different opinions about the referral rules is a different matter.
So... were they removed from the referral program or not? It's not a tough question.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The point is, Steven Sharif called Steven Messner a liar when he was only reporting the information Kickstarter gave him. That information was not modified, edited, or changed and was what David Gallagher had stated.
Kickstarter believed they removed the pledges from the program and they [Intrepid] even TOLD them they had removed them.
The issue is not whether they were removed anymore.
What this is about is Intrepid's loss of integrity and whether or not we can continue to trust them.
That's the part that should have been the focus of this story and how it transpired. It deserved far more focus than it got, it's the only part of this that matters; in that it has real consequence for both intrepid as well as more importantly, it's backers. Instead all attention is on who said what..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If I am reporting something as fact, I don't rely on a statement from one source. I do my due diligence and verify it independently. It's how the world of journalism works.
You just want to continuously move the goalposts to fit your narrative.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson