is this really so much of an issue to start a crusade against it?
" All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. "
LOL Dude. You are a joke.
So this article seems to be have all his fears addressed point by point. He just remains skeptical. Which is normal with kickstarter. You and this article have told us nothing new. It was already pointed out he doesn't have a legal obligation to pay anyone back if the project isn't released. He has said he will though which counts for something.
It is up to the individual to decide if he is being dishonest or not. Welcome to kickstarter?
Your judgment is clouded.
Your bias is confirmed.
Can all you guys stay focused on the article? As much fun as all your back and forth sniping may seem it's really kind of lame.
I for one am interested in finding out if in fact they really retroactively changed the referral program. If they did this I will absolutely pull my pledge. I have over 500 referrals. That's bullshit. Most people will pledge and get free months subs.. I know a few that went in for the $400+ tier for lifetime sub which would in effect mean no payout.
I asked him for his source on Reddit. Gotta wait and see.
I hope you will agree that IF they did make this retroactive change, and did not even announce it... this would be very shady and poor. And you should call on them to apologize.
If they did NOT make this change and the author was bullshitting or just poor journalism he should have to make a public apology and retraction.
Yes I agree with you. Unfortunately he says he got his answer from the devs on discord 5 hours ago which means there is no source I can give you:
However, I doubt he would have reason to lie about it. I guess we could try asking on discord again but they aren't usually sitting around answering questions. Maybe a PM to Steve's reddit?
No.. an official statement from the company would be needed here i think. You have one of the major gaming magazines/websites stating that you are doing something SUPER shady... you should put a statement up for the public AND force them to retract it if it's not true. This shouldn't be a case of "I heard it from a guy who read it on reddit from a guy who saw it on discord"
This is a serious allegation. SOMEONE.. either author or company is going to have their total credibility shredded here. We just need the facts.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
is this really so much of an issue to start a crusade against it?
" All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. "
LOL Dude. You are a joke.
So this article seems to be have all his fears addressed point by point. He just remains skeptical. Which is normal with kickstarter. You and this article have told us nothing new. It was already pointed out he doesn't have a legal obligation to pay anyone back if the project isn't released. He has said he will though which counts for something.
It is up to the individual to decide if he is being dishonest or not. Welcome to kickstarter?
Your judgment is clouded.
Your bias is confirmed.
Can all you guys stay focused on the article? As much fun as all your back and forth sniping may seem it's really kind of lame.
I for one am interested in finding out if in fact they really retroactively changed the referral program. If they did this I will absolutely pull my pledge. I have over 500 referrals. That's bullshit. Most people will pledge and get free months subs.. I know a few that went in for the $400+ tier for lifetime sub which would in effect mean no payout.
I asked him for his source on Reddit. Gotta wait and see.
I hope you will agree that IF they did make this retroactive change, and did not even announce it... this would be very shady and poor. And you should call on them to apologize.
If they did NOT make this change and the author was bullshitting or just poor journalism he should have to make a public apology and retraction.
Yes I agree with you. Unfortunately he says he got his answer from the devs on discord 5 hours ago which means there is no source I can give you:
However, I doubt he would have reason to lie about it. I guess we could try asking on discord again but they aren't usually sitting around answering questions. Maybe a PM to Steve's reddit?
No.. an official statement from the company would be needed here i think. You have one of the major gaming magazines/websites stating that you are doing something SUPER shady... you should put a statement up for the public AND force them to retract it if it's not true. This shouldn't be a case of "I heard it from a guy who read it on reddit from a guy who saw it on discord"
This is a serious allegation. SOMEONE.. either author or company is going to have their total credibility shredded here. We just need the facts.
The guy said he did ask them to retract. Hopefully they will update their article at some point?
Of note for those who did not know: In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. Since then, Intrepid Studios has significantly updated their referral program page to reflect these changes and has removed examples of how much money YouTubers could hope to make. They’ve also specified that the cash that people can earn from the referral program will be paid out quarterly after the game has launched.
I think he also summed it up well: There’s potential for something great, but the risks feel greater too. Anyone thinking of supporting Ashes of Creation prior to launch, whether through Kickstarter or any other means, should think carefully before proceeding. ----------------------
Hmm.. I wonder if it's even legit to update the referral program retroactively. I mean, some people may have paid money to advertise the game under the assumption that they would get 15% of revenue they generated...
Someone posted this on reddit:
"UPDATE Steven has sent a retraction out to them since this is WRONG, you do get referral credit for KS packages."
Is there a link to Steven stating this? Or is this just some random reddit guy posting?
There was a link to Steven's (Messner) Twitter status that he deleted so it can't be confirmed. I haven't seen Steven (Messner) retract anything. I also haven't been to Discord today so I don't know if that has been commented by Intrepid or Steven (Sharif).
The referral page was updates several days ago though. When I looked at it the page had already explained about quarterly payments and the delay before payments can be issued due to legal requirements.
1. Changes to the program should be SENT to participants.. you shouldn't have to go check to see if something changed. 2. Removing all Kickstarter purchases from the referral list (currently Kickstarter is about 2.5 million which is serious cash) is VERY different from saying there will be quarterly payments.
Again.. if the author fucked up here he should be (not literally) tarred and feathered... but if the COMPANY did this ninja change.. as stated in the article.. THEY should be.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Of note for those who did not know: In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. Since then, Intrepid Studios has significantly updated their referral program page to reflect these changes and has removed examples of how much money YouTubers could hope to make. They’ve also specified that the cash that people can earn from the referral program will be paid out quarterly after the game has launched.
I think he also summed it up well: There’s potential for something great, but the risks feel greater too. Anyone thinking of supporting Ashes of Creation prior to launch, whether through Kickstarter or any other means, should think carefully before proceeding. ----------------------
Hmm.. I wonder if it's even legit to update the referral program retroactively. I mean, some people may have paid money to advertise the game under the assumption that they would get 15% of revenue they generated...
Someone posted this on reddit:
"UPDATE Steven has sent a retraction out to them since this is WRONG, you do get referral credit for KS packages."
Is there a link to Steven stating this? Or is this just some random reddit guy posting?
There was a link to Steven's (Messner) Twitter status that he deleted so it can't be confirmed. I haven't seen Steven (Messner) retract anything. I also haven't been to Discord today so I don't know if that has been commented by Intrepid or Steven (Sharif).
The referral page was updates several days ago though. When I looked at it the page had already explained about quarterly payments and the delay before payments can be issued due to legal requirements.
1. Changes to the program should be SENT to participants.. you shouldn't have to go check to see if something changed. 2. Removing all Kickstarter purchases from the referral list (currently Kickstarter is about 2.5 million which is serious cash) is VERY different from saying there will be quarterly payments.
Again.. if the author fucked up here he should be (not literally) tarred and feathered... but if the COMPANY did this ninja change.. as stated in the article.. THEY should be.
I sent him a PM or Reddit to make an official statement of some sort if he can. Hopefully he reads his PMs. I don't know if he gets flooded with messages or not. All I can do.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Guys, its Friday night, shouldn't you be playing MMOs and not thrashing about on forums?
I'm stuck at Walmart while the wife looks at buying picture frames.
The whole reason I am here is I haven't been interested in modern MMOs for years. Plus the girlfriend has been out of state for a few weeks. Probably wont be here very often when she comes back on Sunday. lol
PS: That is why I buy everything on Amazon these days. lol
Again.. a simple official rebuttal post on the forums by the developers would put it to bed.. unequivocally stating: All Kickstarter Purchases are eligible for referrals.
It's that simple.
Not a discord message.. not a cousin or a cousin who heard it.
Just a simple 7 word post on the official forum.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Of note for those who did not know: In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program. Since then, Intrepid Studios has significantly updated their referral program page to reflect these changes and has removed examples of how much money YouTubers could hope to make. They’ve also specified that the cash that people can earn from the referral program will be paid out quarterly after the game has launched.
I think he also summed it up well: There’s potential for something great, but the risks feel greater too. Anyone thinking of supporting Ashes of Creation prior to launch, whether through Kickstarter or any other means, should think carefully before proceeding. ----------------------
Hmm.. I wonder if it's even legit to update the referral program retroactively. I mean, some people may have paid money to advertise the game under the assumption that they would get 15% of revenue they generated...
Someone posted this on reddit:
"UPDATE Steven has sent a retraction out to them since this is WRONG, you do get referral credit for KS packages."
Is there a link to Steven stating this? Or is this just some random reddit guy posting?
There was a link to Steven's (Messner) Twitter status that he deleted so it can't be confirmed. I haven't seen Steven (Messner) retract anything. I also haven't been to Discord today so I don't know if that has been commented by Intrepid or Steven (Sharif).
The referral page was updates several days ago though. When I looked at it the page had already explained about quarterly payments and the delay before payments can be issued due to legal requirements.
1. Changes to the program should be SENT to participants.. you shouldn't have to go check to see if something changed. 2. Removing all Kickstarter purchases from the referral list (currently Kickstarter is about 2.5 million which is serious cash) is VERY different from saying there will be quarterly payments.
Again.. if the author fucked up here he should be (not literally) tarred and feathered... but if the COMPANY did this ninja change.. as stated in the article.. THEY should be.
I don't know if anything changed. I just went and looked at the referral page several days ago and remember the part about quarterly payments and such. I went there because people were talking a a lot about the referral and I hadn't ever read it before. The referral program doesn't interest me much at all.
"I will never forget the way his expression
suddenly changed as he asked us, "Are you guys goons?" When we both
nodded, he looked visibly uncomfortable. Here we were, 800 people who
had gathered over our love of a video game, to talk and to meet, and
this guy was suddenly unsettled because he just shook hands with the
supposed "villains" of EVE Online.
At first I thought his reaction
was so odd—childish even. But later that night I realized that it was
merely a symptom of what a strange game EVE Online can be. A game where
two people can meet and one of them could immediately make assumptions
about them based solely on the group they play with."
The reputation and lack of integrity by that group precedes way more than the allusions to others he's made in that article. It doesn't mean he's lying or wrong, but I definitely don't trust anything he says until he backs those things up.
I'll try and see if I can find some answers on the forums or Discord.
Did you just attack SomethingAwful openly? It's just a community that happened to be good at EVE.
Again.. a simple official rebuttal post on the forums by the developers would put it to bed.. unequivocally stating: All Kickstarter Purchases are eligible for referrals.
It's that simple.
Not a discord message.. not a cousin or a cousin who heard it.
Just a simple 7 word post on the official forum.
I agree and am treating it as preliminary damage control.
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
and 1 other.
Happy to be with you fine ladies and gentlemen on MMORPG.com, hope to participate in healthy discussions about our favorite genre.
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Steven for clarity can you confirm the following: All Kickstarter Purchases are eligible for referrals.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Just because someone speaks out against your game doesn't mean they have some obvious agenda or are "paid by competitors". You can't always assume that any negativity about your game means some elaborate conspiratorial scheme.
It's not wise to gas threads that speak out against you on mediums you control. Forum bans, Discord bans, Reddit post locks/bans.
Not all of us are going to just shut up and drink the koolaid.
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Thanks for that.
He does apparently have an agenda and that article is riddled with inaccuracies and half-truths.
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Thanks for responding Steven! It is cool to see how much you guys talk with the community.
Guys, its Friday night, shouldn't you be playing MMOs and not thrashing about on forums?
I'm stuck at Walmart while the wife looks at buying picture frames.
OMG you have a wife? You'd never told me that!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Thanks for that.
He does apparently have an agenda and that article is riddled with inaccuracies and half-truths.
Care to point them out?
I don't think Steven has anything to teach about ethic. Just look at his past. Or the skins debate.
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Thanks for that.
He does apparently have an agenda and that article is riddled with inaccuracies and half-truths.
Care to point them out?
I don't think Steven has anything to teach about ethic. Just look at his past. Or the skins debate.
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Well I am fairly sure that it DID change a bit right? Because as I recall there was originally no mention about a quarterly payment before as well as the delay in payments. I think that's all OK, but it was an apparent change from the original.
I will ask again for clarity though as this is the only part I really care about:
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes you a huge apology. If the answer to that is NO, then you got some 'splainin to do.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Well I am fairly sure that it DID change a bit right? Because as I recall there was originally no mention about a quarterly payment before as well as the delay in payments. I think that's all OK, but it was an apparent change from the original.
I will ask again for clarity though as this is the only part I really care about:
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes you a huge apology. If the answer to that is NO, then you got some 'splainin to do.
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Well I am fairly sure that it DID change a bit right? Because as I recall there was originally no mention about a quarterly payment before as well as the delay in payments. I think that's all OK, but it was an apparent change from the original.
I will ask again for clarity though as this is the only part I really care about:
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes you a huge apology. If the answer to that is NO, then you got some 'splainin to do.
We have already established the referral system isn't a pyramid scheme. Keep hitting that dead horse though.
I am dumbfounded by the amount of debbie downers and negative nancys that this game has attracted.
Some people really need to get a life and stop creating storms in tea cups just to validify their paranoia.
Wither you like it or not the game is being made. Wither you like it or not the game has been funded on kickstarter. If you keep carrying that large chip on your shoulder you are liable to get a hump. I myself see no reason to doubt what they are trying to do but I do not expect it to be the second coming but I do appreciate the fact they are trying to do something slightly different.
Comments
This is a serious allegation. SOMEONE.. either author or company is going to have their total credibility shredded here. We just need the facts.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
2. Removing all Kickstarter purchases from the referral list (currently Kickstarter is about 2.5 million which is serious cash) is VERY different from saying there will be quarterly payments.
Again.. if the author fucked up here he should be (not literally) tarred and feathered... but if the COMPANY did this ninja change.. as stated in the article.. THEY should be.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm stuck at Walmart while the wife looks at buying picture frames.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The whole reason I am here is I haven't been interested in modern MMOs for years. Plus the girlfriend has been out of state for a few weeks. Probably wont be here very often when she comes back on Sunday. lol
PS: That is why I buy everything on Amazon these days. lol
It's that simple.
Not a discord message.. not a cousin or a cousin who heard it.
Just a simple 7 word post on the official forum.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Founder/Creative Director @ Intrepid Studios
Building upcoming MMORPG Ashes of Creation
Discord
All Kickstarter Purchases are eligible for referrals.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's not wise to gas threads that speak out against you on mediums you control. Forum bans, Discord bans, Reddit post locks/bans.
Not all of us are going to just shut up and drink the koolaid.
I don't think Steven has anything to teach about ethic. Just look at his past. Or the skins debate.
I will ask again for clarity though as this is the only part I really care about:
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes you a huge apology.
If the answer to that is NO, then you got some 'splainin to do.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Some people really need to get a life and stop creating storms in tea cups just to validify their paranoia.
Wither you like it or not the game is being made. Wither you like it or not the game has been funded on kickstarter. If you keep carrying that large chip on your shoulder you are liable to get a hump. I myself see no reason to doubt what they are trying to do but I do not expect it to be the second coming but I do appreciate the fact they are trying to do something slightly different.