There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Well I am fairly sure that it DID change a bit right? Because as I recall there was originally no mention about a quarterly payment before as well as the delay in payments. I think that's all OK, but it was an apparent change from the original.
I will ask again for clarity though as this is the only part I really care about:
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes you a huge apology. If the answer to that is NO, then you got some 'splainin to do.
Just wondering if it was ever specifically stated that they were covered under the referral program? that could cost the company a pretty penny if enough people tried capitalizing off of that. I could see such a program being tied to a sub system as the prospective pay outs are small there (a couple dollars), plus it's being supplemented by all the subs coming in on an ongoing basis. WIth KS though, those pay outs could get lofty in abundance. How do the logistics on that work out?
I feel like they should have just avoided this whole referral system from the very beginning and just promoted their idea and goal. It likely would have went over much more smoothly.
If the creative director comes here and says nothing has changed and you won't believe it then nothing will satisfy your request for information. Do you plan on continuing to troll the game if you're not open to discussion or information?
His word is his word. Nothing more and nothing less. Let's avoid this belittling towards other users. Steven's word weight as much as anyone else here.
A simple mirror of the place with the information showing if it changed or not would satisfy, I guess.
You say word of a real person, whom we know his identity, his name, his family name, his business history, and many other information, who is actually the CEO of the said company, has the same weight as an anonymous random forum poster? Your scale is broken.
That doesn't mean Steven cannot lie, but to say his word has the same weight as his is a joke. Even if I'd be on your side of the argument.
History has taught us that no one is immune from misleading people even when they deal with greater risks.
You really don't have to look far to find examples. I could list hundreds and hundreds from multiple points in time but this should suffice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff
As the matter fact no, history never taught us that.
Again, my statement, as I pointed out, wasn't about being right or wrong. But about how words of different people having a different weight, for obvious reasons.
I like how you started with pointing out technical network problems though. That shows experience on these forums. Come out of the shadows dear, tell us about your banned accounts, give us your name...
Are you accusing me of committing libel? I feel like we have a case of armchair lawyer on our hands.
I didn't accuse you dear, and I gave you an "IF" and a link. Seems you're not even an armchair lawyer.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I think it's really weird that a game dev studio is adopting MLM marketing tricks in spreading the word of their pyramid scheme game, and then gets really mad when you say it's a pyramid scheme.
I too would love it when my friends tries to get me to play a game because they get an economical benefit from doing so, and not because the game is good. People will do the weirdest things for money. Including lying.
Anyone saying that the kickstarter is purely for "the fans of the game" is either dishonest about their intentions when talking about the game, or haven't seen through the ploy yet. It has raised to date over 2 million dollars. But hey that's just spare change right?
It's dishonest to start a kickstarter if you don't need the funds for the project you're kickstarting.
Steven isn't at all a shady MLM guy, who hired his husband so they could both get "Salary" from the kickstarter funds.
I think it's really weird that a game dev studio is adopting MLM marketing tricks in spreading the word of their pyramid scheme game, and then gets really mad when you say it's a pyramid scheme.
I too would love it when my friends tries to get me to play a game because they get an economical benefit from doing so, and not because the game is good. People will do the weirdest things for money. Including lying.
Anyone saying that the kickstarter is purely for "the fans of the game" is either dishonest about their intentions when talking about the game, or haven't seen through the ploy yet. It has raised to date over 2 million dollars. But hey that's just spare change right?
It's dishonest to start a kickstarter if you don't need the funds for the project you're kickstarting.
Steven isn't at all a shady MLM guy, who hired his husband so they could both get "Salary" from the kickstarter funds.
I hope I've stung to the heart of the matter.
My opinion of this all is, they want a StarCitizen-like outcome where the game continues to get funded and delayed after getting a massive amount of funding following the end of the Kickstarter. It builds and builds, delays and delays, getting upwards of one-hundred million dollars.
This outcome, in my opinion, would be ideal for someone looking to make a large amount of cash. After all, you can continually raise your salary as the funds pour in without any repercussion if the game fails since it's money you "earned" in the eyes of the law.
Say the game gets 120+ million you could pay your self out 5 - 10 million easily a year or whatever you feel you deserve. All of that money is safe and secure especially if it's an S Corp or LLC. The game could take a nose dive and you got your salary and wash hands.
I'm not sure of the legality of that. If it can be shown that Star Citizen had intentionally misled it's backers or donaters or whatever it is they're called, then that's fraud.
But I'm sure that Steven and his teams goals is to make as much money as they can. I mean they want a microtransactions shop in their game, which is also subscription based. And I think that's the goal here. It's not to make a good MMO.
"To put that in perspective, consider that legendary designer Richard Garriott's Kickstarter MMO Shroud of the Avatar only managed to raise $410,861 on its first day. Castlevania creator Koji Igarashi's Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night secured just shy of a million dollars on day one, and it's the second most-funded videogame Kickstarter of all time."
I'm guessing Messner is just a butt hurt Shroud of the Avatar backer. I kinda get it. Garriott ran a Kickstarter on his veteran celebrity status with nothing but smoke and mirrors and has failed to deliver on everything. I think Intrepid's successful entry into the MMORPG pre-alpha scene should be a wakeup call to all these lazy old timers riding just riding nostalgia while they milk their backers ... an awesome turnout for the Ashes of Creation Kickstarter just screams at WE ARE TIRED OF YOUR LIES to all the rest! Don't let us down Steven and we'll play your game; learn from the mistakes your peers have made, we'll be watching very closely.
So, prudence is required when supporting ANY KS project; big news!
The crusade against this project leads me to believe that supporters of *other* projects have been hard at work to disparage it.
The way the pyramid referal works is that it targets you through word of mouth of people you know and trust.
It's one thing to have an ad say "Buy our game, iz gud"
But having your friend say "You should buy the game it's good" is a different beast altogether Hopefully I don't have to explain why.
Fundamental fail re: geometry and understanding of what makes a pyramid scheme. Don't feel too bad, though: Messner got it wrong, also. That's what happens when you use Reddit and John Oliver as your primary sources.
Carry on. This storm in a teacup is invigorating, if somewhat petty. Maybe carry some of that angst over to CIG's doorstep; perhaps it will help them actually finish the game.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Well I am fairly sure that it DID change a bit right? Because as I recall there was originally no mention about a quarterly payment before as well as the delay in payments. I think that's all OK, but it was an apparent change from the original.
I will ask again for clarity though as this is the only part I really care about:
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes you a huge apology. If the answer to that is NO, then you got some 'splainin to do.
Just wondering if it was ever specifically stated that they were covered under the referral program? that could cost the company a pretty penny if enough people tried capitalizing off of that. I could see such a program being tied to a sub system as the prospective pay outs are small there (a couple dollars), plus it's being supplemented by all the subs coming in on an ongoing basis. WIth KS though, those pay outs could get lofty in abundance. How do the logistics on that work out?
There were posts/statements made that streamers could make $10 grand through the referral system. That's pretty much impossible if Kickstarter pledges do not count. Also as has been mentioned it does appear that at least SOME changes were made related to adding restrictions on payout timings etc... Maybe that was the plan all along and the "new" rules do make sense to combat fraud, but I believe that originally when I signed up there was no quarterly payment or delay. Saying nothing has changed seems demonstrably wrong BUT I don't think anybody cares if little things like that changed. So again I ask that he stop the word smithing and answer a very simple question.
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes him a huge apology. If the answer to that is NO, then he's got some 'splainin to do.
I will absolutely believe him and will join in demanding PC Gamer retract the article AND publicly apologize if the answer is YES. If the answer is NO then I hope all the defenders would join in public criticism and condemnation of these practices.
I just need to see him actually address this issue.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Well I am fairly sure that it DID change a bit right? Because as I recall there was originally no mention about a quarterly payment before as well as the delay in payments. I think that's all OK, but it was an apparent change from the original.
I will ask again for clarity though as this is the only part I really care about:
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes you a huge apology. If the answer to that is NO, then you got some 'splainin to do.
Just wondering if it was ever specifically stated that they were covered under the referral program? that could cost the company a pretty penny if enough people tried capitalizing off of that. I could see such a program being tied to a sub system as the prospective pay outs are small there (a couple dollars), plus it's being supplemented by all the subs coming in on an ongoing basis. WIth KS though, those pay outs could get lofty in abundance. How do the logistics on that work out?
There were posts/statements made that streamers could make $10 grand through the referral system. That's pretty much impossible if Kickstarter pledges do not count. Also as has been mentioned it does appear that at least SOME changes were made related to adding restrictions on payout timings etc... Maybe that was the plan all along and the "new" rules do make sense to combat fraud, but I believe that originally when I signed up there was no quarterly payment or delay. Saying nothing has changed seems demonstrably wrong BUT I don't think anybody cares if little things like that changed. So again I ask that he stop the word smithing and answer a very simple question.
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes him a huge apology. If the answer to that is NO, then he's got some 'splainin to do.
I will absolutely believe him and will join in demanding PC Gamer retract the article AND publicly apologize if the answer is YES. If the answer is NO then I hope all the defenders would join in public criticism and condemnation of these practices.
I just need to see him actually address this issue.
I agree, although he stated here "nothing has changed" I'd prefer he make the direct statement you have requested.
Not on their Discord, or even here really, (because who knows, is the person with that account name really Steve S?) but rather on their official website or KSer page.
One strange phenomenon in this modern age is automatically doubting what people plainly say, even to the point of calling them liars.
Where (and when) I'm from you take a man at his word until there is reasonable evidence he is lying to you.
Doesn't mean you cant be skeptical, or should totally trust everything that's said, but without reasonable evidence no need to accuse people of intentionally misleading or lying to others.
Also where I'm from if someone accuses you of lying with no evidence you have a right to smack them in the face.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
David Sharif on reddit: "...About 7 years ago I moved into investments and real estate, which is the source of a majority of my success." in regards to his MLM involvement
7 years ago he says he quit the MLM business and yet he was voted nr #67 in a 2013 MLM poll. hrmm... Current year is 2017.
There has been no change in our referral system. The author of this article had an obvious agenda, and a request has been made to PCGamer for a retraction of the article. It is telling that his sources linked in the article itself were from Reddit. A shame.
Well I am fairly sure that it DID change a bit right? Because as I recall there was originally no mention about a quarterly payment before as well as the delay in payments. I think that's all OK, but it was an apparent change from the original.
I will ask again for clarity though as this is the only part I really care about:
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes you a huge apology. If the answer to that is NO, then you got some 'splainin to do.
Just wondering if it was ever specifically stated that they were covered under the referral program? that could cost the company a pretty penny if enough people tried capitalizing off of that. I could see such a program being tied to a sub system as the prospective pay outs are small there (a couple dollars), plus it's being supplemented by all the subs coming in on an ongoing basis. WIth KS though, those pay outs could get lofty in abundance. How do the logistics on that work out?
There were posts/statements made that streamers could make $10 grand through the referral system. That's pretty much impossible if Kickstarter pledges do not count. Also as has been mentioned it does appear that at least SOME changes were made related to adding restrictions on payout timings etc... Maybe that was the plan all along and the "new" rules do make sense to combat fraud, but I believe that originally when I signed up there was no quarterly payment or delay. Saying nothing has changed seems demonstrably wrong BUT I don't think anybody cares if little things like that changed. So again I ask that he stop the word smithing and answer a very simple question.
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes him a huge apology. If the answer to that is NO, then he's got some 'splainin to do.
I will absolutely believe him and will join in demanding PC Gamer retract the article AND publicly apologize if the answer is YES. If the answer is NO then I hope all the defenders would join in public criticism and condemnation of these practices.
I just need to see him actually address this issue.
I agree, although he stated here "nothing has changed" I'd prefer he make the direct statement you have requested.
Not on their Discord, or even here really, (because who knows, is the person with that account name really Steve S?) but rather on their official website or KSer page.
One strange phenomenon in this modern age is automatically doubting what people plainly say, even to the point of calling them liars.
Where (and when) I'm from you take a man at his word until there is reasonable evidence he is lying to you.
Doesn't mean you cant be skeptical, or should totally trust everything that's said, but without reasonable evidence no need to accuse people of intentionally misleading or lying to others.
Also where I'm from if someone accuses you of lying with no evidence you have a right to smack them in the face.
Yeah...it was a different time and place.
I agree in general but as a society we have enabled the propagation of Double-Speak, and answering parts of questions or different questions entirely. Just watch a political debate
Thats why it's best to narrow the real question to as simple as possible. In this case a literal Yes or No.
Remember the author claims that Kickstarter told him they informed Intrepid they had to remove the Kickstarter pledges from the referrals. I think a simple Yes or No answer from Steven would put this to bed.
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
David Sharif on reddit: "...About 7 years ago I moved into investments and real estate, which is the source of a majority of my success." in regards to his MLM involvement
7 years ago he says he quit the MLM business and yet he was voted nr #67 in a 2013 MLM poll. hrmm... Current year is 2017.
Some quick math for the numerically challenged 2017 - 7 = 2010
So why is he voted for, 3 whole years after he allegedly quit the business?
I have no idea; maybe he was doing both at the same time? It is possible to have more than one career, simultaneously. Perhaps he had a reputation at Xango which outlasted the time he spent there?
In your quote Sharif said he moved into investments and real estate 7 years ago, not that he "quit the business".
I should also note that you are linking to what was apparently a public poll and Steve had all of 25 votes.
I don't recall him ever lying about his involvement in MLM or even admitting that it's something to be ashamed of. That is a scandal manufactured by Reddit. It's quite embarrassing for internet culture, to be honest.
You are not fighting the great fight. May as well complain to your manger about him or her getting a cut of the profits you generate next time you are behind the register or on the sales floor.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
It's the way he talks about it. All of what he said about his MLM involvement is in the past. In his post about "transparency" about his MLM involvement, none of what he has said is about his current involvement with it.
Not only that, he makes it sound like the reason he has money now, is because of his "real estate investment" and not because of his MLM involvement. He is white washing himself off of MLM, and therefore any influence it has in Ashes of Creation.
It's clearly shady as hell, but you're just waving it off as nothing. Why do you do that?
First day of the KS I locked in at the $400 early bird Braver of Souls package. Today I dropped down to the lowest $25 tier.
The chance of me getting my money's worth out of a $400 lifetime subscription for any MMORPG is low. Combine that with very little concrete information being given about the gameplay, and I simply can't justify the risk.
Even if the game is released with all of the promised features, based on the concrete info given so far, I really have no idea if I'll enjoy playing the game... especially long-term?
It seems every meaningful question about the gameplay that gets asked, has been answered by the devs saying that they're still deciding.
you know, my biggest gripe with this thread is that those trash-talking AoC have newly-made accounts with very few posts.
it's as if some people made accounts in MMORPG specifically to bash AoC....oh wait
Where is this trash talking and bashing?
People are pointing out very specific and real problems. Ideas which instead of being discussed get you banned by the fanboys and mods on the AoC reddit, forums and discord.
you know, my biggest gripe with this thread is that those trash-talking AoC have newly-made accounts with very few posts.
it's as if some people made accounts in MMORPG specifically to bash AoC....oh wait
Where is this trash talking and bashing?
People are pointing out very specific and real problems. Ideas which instead of being discussed get you banned by the fanboys and mods on the AoC reddit, forums and discord.
Let's see:
ITT we've had the OP compare Steve Sharif to Bernie Madoff, imply that the project is "evil", accuse people of "witch hunting"...
@SwordeBeemeLord calls Ashes "their pyramid scheme game" although in one of the quotes from Sharif he uses to support his claim it is explained quite simply why it is not (pyramid schemes being illegal by the way: things people go to jail over...)...
For trying to launch a video game...
The "problems" are neither real nor specific. The only valid criticism I've seen so far here comes from @Slapshot1188 regarding clarity over whether KS pledges will be counted toward the referral program, and that's somewhat out of Intrepid's control at the moment.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
It's a pyramid scheme game. Players are rewarded for refering multiple people to the game. Just because you reap less benefits of the people you refer, who also refer other people, doesn't stop it from being a pyramid scheme. The amount of levels doesn't matter, the amount of money you earn doesn't matter.
The clear difference between pyramid schemes and MLM's is that MLM's actually have a product.
Ashes of Creation isn't a product (yet).
Also why are you using the word of the guy who is running the pyramid scheme as basis for it not being a pyramid scheme? He is running it. He has an economic interest in saying it's not.
It's a pyramid scheme game. Players are rewarded for refering multiple people to the game. Just because you reap less benefits of the people you refer, who also refer other people, doesn't stop it from being a pyramid scheme. The amount of levels doesn't matter, the amount of money you earn doesn't matter.
The clear difference between pyramid schemes and MLM's is that MLM's actually have a product.
Ashes of Creation isn't a product (yet).
Also why are you using the word of the guy who is running the pyramid scheme as basis for it not being a pyramid scheme? He is running it. He has an economic interest in saying it's not.
You seem to have only the vaguest understanding of what a pyramid scheme is, and I think you should take a break from the keyboard.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
David Sharif on reddit: "...About 7 years ago I moved into investments and real estate, which is the source of a majority of my success." in regards to his MLM involvement
7 years ago he says he quit the MLM business and yet he was voted nr #67 in a 2013 MLM poll. hrmm... Current year is 2017.
Some quick math for the numerically challenged 2017 - 7 = 2010
So why is he voted for, 3 whole years after he allegedly quit the business?
Saying you moved into investing and real estate isn't saying you quit your other job and do only that now. He did both and that is where he got most of his money.
It's a pyramid scheme game. Players are rewarded for refering multiple people to the game. Just because you reap less benefits of the people you refer, who also refer other people, doesn't stop it from being a pyramid scheme. The amount of levels doesn't matter, the amount of money you earn doesn't matter.
The clear difference between pyramid schemes and MLM's is that MLM's actually have a product.
Ashes of Creation isn't a product (yet).
Also why are you using the word of the guy who is running the pyramid scheme as basis for it not being a pyramid scheme? He is running it. He has an economic interest in saying it's not.
You only earn money from people you refer. You gain nothing from the people under your referrals. Therefore theres no pyramid. Explain to me how that doesn't stop that being a pyramid scheme when it is the core principal of the scheme. Also there is no buy in (you can take part without pledging to the game) therefore there is no risk to your own money. That is the main problem with pyramid schemes. Further, you gain less and less per referral you get. Making it the opposite of how a pyramid scheme would work.
You cant redefine pyramid scheme to make it fit your argument.
Comments
Thought I'd drop my 2 cents.
I think it's really weird that a game dev studio is adopting MLM marketing tricks
in spreading the word of their pyramid scheme game, and then gets really mad
when you say it's a pyramid scheme.
I too would love it when my friends tries to get me to play a game because they get an economical benefit from doing so, and not because the game is good. People will do the weirdest things for money. Including lying.
Anyone saying that the kickstarter is purely for "the fans of the game" is either dishonest about their intentions when talking about the game, or haven't seen through the ploy yet.
It has raised to date over 2 million dollars. But hey that's just spare change right?
It's dishonest to start a kickstarter if you don't need the funds for the project you're kickstarting.
Steven isn't at all a shady MLM guy, who hired his husband so they could both get "Salary" from the kickstarter funds.
I hope I've stung to the heart of the matter.
This outcome, in my opinion, would be ideal for someone looking to make a large amount of cash. After all, you can continually raise your salary as the funds pour in without any repercussion if the game fails since it's money you "earned" in the eyes of the law.
Say the game gets 120+ million you could pay your self out 5 - 10 million easily a year or whatever you feel you deserve. All of that money is safe and secure especially if it's an S Corp or LLC. The game could take a nose dive and you got your salary and wash hands.
That's just my opinion though.
But I'm sure that Steven and his teams goals is to make as much money as they can.
I mean they want a microtransactions shop in their game, which is also subscription based.
And I think that's the goal here. It's not to make a good MMO.
So, prudence is required when supporting ANY KS project; big news!
The crusade against this project leads me to believe that supporters of *other* projects have been hard at work to disparage it.
It's one thing to have an ad say "Buy our game, iz gud"
But having your friend say "You should buy the game it's good" is a different beast altogether
Hopefully I don't have to explain why.
"To put that in perspective, consider that legendary designer Richard Garriott's Kickstarter MMO Shroud of the Avatar only managed to raise $410,861 on its first day. Castlevania creator Koji Igarashi's Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night secured just shy of a million dollars on day one, and it's the second most-funded videogame Kickstarter of all time."
I'm guessing Messner is just a butt hurt Shroud of the Avatar backer. I kinda get it. Garriott ran a Kickstarter on his veteran celebrity status with nothing but smoke and mirrors and has failed to deliver on everything. I think Intrepid's successful entry into the MMORPG pre-alpha scene should be a wakeup call to all these lazy old timers riding just riding nostalgia while they milk their backers ... an awesome turnout for the Ashes of Creation Kickstarter just screams at WE ARE TIRED OF YOUR LIES to all the rest! Don't let us down Steven and we'll play your game; learn from the mistakes your peers have made, we'll be watching very closely.
Carry on. This storm in a teacup is invigorating, if somewhat petty. Maybe carry some of that angst over to CIG's doorstep; perhaps it will help them actually finish the game.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
If the answer to that is YES, then the author owes him a huge apology.
If the answer to that is NO, then he's got some 'splainin to do.
I will absolutely believe him and will join in demanding PC Gamer retract the article AND publicly apologize if the answer is YES. If the answer is NO then I hope all the defenders would join in public criticism and condemnation of these practices.
I just need to see him actually address this issue.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Not on their Discord, or even here really, (because who knows, is the person with that account name really Steve S?) but rather on their official website or KSer page.
One strange phenomenon in this modern age is automatically doubting what people plainly say, even to the point of calling them liars.
Where (and when) I'm from you take a man at his word until there is reasonable evidence he is lying to you.
Doesn't mean you cant be skeptical, or should totally trust everything that's said, but without reasonable evidence no need to accuse people of intentionally misleading or lying to others.
Also where I'm from if someone accuses you of lying with no evidence you have a right to smack them in the face.
Yeah...it was a different time and place.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I mean he has lied before, in regards to his MLM involvement
https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/68tk1l/why_the_ashes_of_creation_referral_program_is_not/dh1912j/
David Sharif on reddit: "...About 7 years ago I moved into investments and real estate, which is the source of a majority of my success." in regards to his MLM involvement
7 years ago he says he quit the MLM business and yet he was voted nr #67
in a 2013 MLM poll. hrmm... Current year is 2017.
https://www.businessforhome.org/2013/05/the-top-mlm-networker-2013-poll/
Some quick math for the numerically challenged
2017 - 7 = 2010
So why is he voted for, 3 whole years after he allegedly quit the business?
I agree in general but as a society we have enabled the propagation of Double-Speak, and answering parts of questions or different questions entirely. Just watch a political debate
Thats why it's best to narrow the real question to as simple as possible. In this case a literal Yes or No.
Remember the author claims that Kickstarter told him they informed Intrepid they had to remove the Kickstarter pledges from the referrals. I think a simple Yes or No answer from Steven would put this to bed.
Are all Kickstarter Purchases eligible for referral payments?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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In your quote Sharif said he moved into investments and real estate 7 years ago, not that he "quit the business".
I should also note that you are linking to what was apparently a public poll and Steve had all of 25 votes.
I don't recall him ever lying about his involvement in MLM or even admitting that it's something to be ashamed of. That is a scandal manufactured by Reddit. It's quite embarrassing for internet culture, to be honest.
You are not fighting the great fight. May as well complain to your manger about him or her getting a cut of the profits you generate next time you are behind the register or on the sales floor.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Not only that, he makes it sound like the reason he has money now,
is because of his "real estate investment" and not because of his MLM involvement.
He is white washing himself off of MLM, and therefore any influence it has in Ashes of Creation.
It's clearly shady as hell, but you're just waving it off as nothing. Why do you do that?
The chance of me getting my money's worth out of a $400 lifetime subscription for any MMORPG is low. Combine that with very little concrete information being given about the gameplay, and I simply can't justify the risk.
Even if the game is released with all of the promised features, based on the concrete info given so far, I really have no idea if I'll enjoy playing the game... especially long-term?
It seems every meaningful question about the gameplay that gets asked, has been answered by the devs saying that they're still deciding.
it's as if some people made accounts in MMORPG specifically to bash AoC....oh wait
People are pointing out very specific and real problems. Ideas which instead of being discussed get you banned by the fanboys and mods on the AoC reddit, forums and discord.
ITT we've had the OP compare Steve Sharif to Bernie Madoff, imply that the project is "evil", accuse people of "witch hunting"...
@SwordeBeemeLord calls Ashes "their pyramid scheme game" although in one of the quotes from Sharif he uses to support his claim it is explained quite simply why it is not (pyramid schemes being illegal by the way: things people go to jail over...)...
For trying to launch a video game...
The "problems" are neither real nor specific. The only valid criticism I've seen so far here comes from @Slapshot1188 regarding clarity over whether KS pledges will be counted toward the referral program, and that's somewhat out of Intrepid's control at the moment.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Just because you reap less benefits of the people you refer, who also refer other people, doesn't stop it from being a pyramid scheme. The amount of levels doesn't matter, the amount of money you earn doesn't matter.
The clear difference between pyramid schemes and MLM's is that MLM's actually have a product.
Ashes of Creation isn't a product (yet).
Also why are you using the word of the guy who is running the pyramid scheme as basis for it not being a pyramid scheme? He is running it. He has an economic interest in saying it's not.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
You cant redefine pyramid scheme to make it fit your argument.