AKA they are parroting the other story from PC Gamer. Which is supposed to be retracted as not true? If it was true why would Steven lie if it was something he was going to have to do. That would only get him deeper in trouble. Think about it.
I don't know, they seem pretty clear that: Kickstarter examined the situation and determined that Ashes of Creation was in the wrong and had to separate referrals from crowdfunding.
That is the true point and even you, Torval and every other defender has been unable to point to a single clear statement that says the Kickstarter Pledges are still included in the referral program. It seems very easy to refute by Steven. Just post that they are still included in the referral system. $2.5M has been raised so far. If this is now excluded that's serious shit. As pointed out numerous times, it is DEMONSTRABLY provable that the referral page WAS changed and that the quarterly payments clause and the waiting period clause was added.
I fail to see how it's "serious shit". Steve thought it was OK to give back some of the KS funds raised, which clearly it isn't. They are now adjusting their stance accordingly?
Are you out a ton of cash, or are you simply disappointed at seeing a perceived windfall evaporate?
So are you admitting that they now changed the policy and are excluding KS pledges? I'd still like to see an official admission or denial on that before I take your word on it.
I have no idea, but it looks like it's pretty clearly against KS policy, which I'm assuming Intrepid was unaware of?
You say you have 100 people signed up by your referral so far: let's assume 10% stick around for the long haul. That's still $22.50 in monthly passive income when the game launches, which I would take any day of the week.
Lets use your numbers. 100 people. Average backer pledge is now $177.34 100 * $177.34 =$17,734 $17,734 x 15% = $2660
That's a LOT of money to stiff people on. And it's pure bullshit IF they changed this (as now published on PCGamer AND MassivelyOP).
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
AKA they are parroting the other story from PC Gamer. Which is supposed to be retracted as not true? If it was true why would Steven lie if it was something he was going to have to do. That would only get him deeper in trouble. Think about it.
I don't know, they seem pretty clear that: Kickstarter examined the situation and determined that Ashes of Creation was in the wrong and had to separate referrals from crowdfunding.
That is the true point and even you, Torval and every other defender has been unable to point to a single clear statement that says the Kickstarter Pledges are still included in the referral program. It seems very easy to refute by Steven. Just post that they are still included in the referral system. $2.5M has been raised so far. If this is now excluded that's serious shit. As pointed out numerous times, it is DEMONSTRABLY provable that the referral page WAS changed and that the quarterly payments clause and the waiting period clause was added.
I fail to see how it's "serious shit". Steve thought it was OK to give back some of the KS funds raised, which clearly it isn't. They are now adjusting their stance accordingly?
Are you out a ton of cash, or are you simply disappointed at seeing a perceived windfall evaporate?
So are you admitting that they now changed the policy and are excluding KS pledges? I'd still like to see an official admission or denial on that before I take your word on it.
I have no idea, but it looks like it's pretty clearly against KS policy, which I'm assuming Intrepid was unaware of?
You say you have 100 people signed up by your referral so far: let's assume 10% stick around for the long haul. That's still $22.50 in monthly passive income when the game launches, which I would take any day of the week.
Lets use your numbers. 100 people. Average backer pledge is now $177.34 100 * $177.34 =$17,734 $17,734 x 15% = $2660
That's a LOT of money to stiff people on. And it's pure bullshit IF they changed this (as now published on PCGamer AND MassivelyOP).
Yeah, two point six grand is a lot of money. I'd be frustrated at watching that disappear, too.
But... did you have to invest anything to get those returns? Did you sell your soul to the devil or something?
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
AKA they are parroting the other story from PC Gamer. Which is supposed to be retracted as not true? If it was true why would Steven lie if it was something he was going to have to do. That would only get him deeper in trouble. Think about it.
I don't know, they seem pretty clear that: Kickstarter examined the situation and determined that Ashes of Creation was in the wrong and had to separate referrals from crowdfunding.
That is the true point and even you, Torval and every other defender has been unable to point to a single clear statement that says the Kickstarter Pledges are still included in the referral program. It seems very easy to refute by Steven. Just post that they are still included in the referral system. $2.5M has been raised so far. If this is now excluded that's serious shit. As pointed out numerous times, it is DEMONSTRABLY provable that the referral page WAS changed and that the quarterly payments clause and the waiting period clause was added.
I fail to see how it's "serious shit". Steve thought it was OK to give back some of the KS funds raised, which clearly it isn't. They are now adjusting their stance accordingly?
Are you out a ton of cash, or are you simply disappointed at seeing a perceived windfall evaporate?
So are you admitting that they now changed the policy and are excluding KS pledges? I'd still like to see an official admission or denial on that before I take your word on it.
I have no idea, but it looks like it's pretty clearly against KS policy, which I'm assuming Intrepid was unaware of?
You say you have 100 people signed up by your referral so far: let's assume 10% stick around for the long haul. That's still $22.50 in monthly passive income when the game launches, which I would take any day of the week.
Lets use your numbers. 100 people. Average backer pledge is now $177.34 100 * $177.34 =$17,734 $17,734 x 15% = $2660
That's a LOT of money to stiff people on. And it's pure bullshit IF they changed this (as now published on PCGamer AND MassivelyOP).
Yeah, two point six grand is a lot of money. I'd be frustrated at watching that disappear, too.
But... did you have to invest anything to get those returns? Did you sell your soul to the devil or something?
My actual referals are much higher than 100... I also actually reached out to MMORPG.COM and got their advertising rates. They were too rich for me. Good thing too because I'd be livid and demand that Intrepid pay me back if that had happened.
You can't just make a stealth change like that and not tell anyone. That's bullshit and even the most diehard supporters should join in the condemnation IF this proves true. Everyone who called us "cunts", "douches" and lowlife should publicly apologize but I doubt they will be big enough to do so.
If it proves out that these Kickstarter funds ARE still included then I will join the chorus demanding both PCGamer and Massively retract the articles AND apologize.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't even care about the referral program stuff because there isn't even anything resembling a completed product yet. What bothers me about this whole thing is that the guy that seems to be the front man on all of this (Sharif) is the guy with zero experience in gaming. That's great that he got rich selling 40$ bottles of orange juice to morons, but that only makes me more skeptical honestly. The last thing we need in this genre is more clever marketing and big promises. He is not only the guy funding everything, but he named himself as the creative director. That isn't generally an entry level position.
Most of us that have been around awhile remember the good old days of SoE before it turned into $oE, but in the years leading up to Sony selling it off, it was known as the place where games went to die. Everything they touched turned to shit, so I can't be all that excited that they picked up the scraps from that shit show to build a team with.
This whole thing seems to hinge on this one guy that is a giant question mark. It is easy to see why he did well in marketing, but that doesn't mean he knows how to run a game studio or make a game. All of us have thought about how we would make an MMORPG if we had the money to fund one and this guy is doing exactly that, so it's no surprise he's drawing a lot of people in on this. I hope it turns out well because the game they pitched sounds great, but I'd be crazy to bet any big amount of money that this is somehow all going to magically work out though. I'll be holding on to my wallet until release or at least something that resembles a real game.
David Sharif on reddit: "...About 7 years ago I moved into investments and real estate, which is the source of a majority of my success." in regards to his MLM involvement
7 years ago he says he quit the MLM business and yet he was voted nr #67 in a 2013 MLM poll. hrmm... Current year is 2017.
Some quick math for the numerically challenged 2017 - 7 = 2010
So why is he voted for, 3 whole years after he allegedly quit the business?
Saying you moved into investing and real estate isn't saying you quit your other job and do only that now. He did both and that is where he got most of his money.
It's a pyramid scheme game. Players are rewarded for refering multiple people to the game. Just because you reap less benefits of the people you refer, who also refer other people, doesn't stop it from being a pyramid scheme. The amount of levels doesn't matter, the amount of money you earn doesn't matter.
The clear difference between pyramid schemes and MLM's is that MLM's actually have a product.
Ashes of Creation isn't a product (yet).
Also why are you using the word of the guy who is running the pyramid scheme as basis for it not being a pyramid scheme? He is running it. He has an economic interest in saying it's not.
You only earn money from people you refer. You gain nothing from the people under your referrals. Therefore theres no pyramid. Explain to me how that doesn't stop that being a pyramid scheme when it is the core principal of the scheme. Also there is no buy in (you can take part without pledging to the game) therefore there is no risk to your own money. That is the main problem with pyramid schemes. Further, you gain less and less per referral you get. Making it the opposite of how a pyramid scheme would work.
You cant redefine pyramid scheme to make it fit your argument.
It's pretty funny that some guy named "ponzini" is arguing about pyramid schemes.
" But looking closer at the crowdfunding campaign, I also had concerns about the game’s unusual referral program and the history of the company making it—and after sifting through posts on various MMO-related subreddits, I wasn't alone."
"But don't go funding the game just because you'll get your money back if it doesn't work out. Kickstarter itself guarantees no refunds, and, cynically speaking, Sharif's promise isn't necessarily legally binding and is ultimately meant to be taken on good faith. If you're going to donate, do so expecting that money to disappear forever—just hope you might get a cool MMO out of it."
We as gamer's ALWAYS hoped to see some cool games come out every year.However we never once thought we had to fork money out to make it happen and even then it won't happen,it is a simple sneaky way to make good money while delivering nothing but promises.so a total SCAM.
Here is how it works.....Developer makes game.....We look at game and decide if it is worth buying,if not you get nothing from us.It forced developers top deliver a decent product or lose their shirt.Now they have to do NOTHING but make some promises and make up other BS statements to help support the game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
AKA they are parroting the other story from PC Gamer. Which is supposed to be retracted as not true? If it was true why would Steven lie if it was something he was going to have to do. That would only get him deeper in trouble. Think about it.
I don't know, they seem pretty clear that: Kickstarter examined the situation and determined that Ashes of Creation was in the wrong and had to separate referrals from crowdfunding.
That is the true point and even you, Torval and every other defender has been unable to point to a single clear statement that says the Kickstarter Pledges are still included in the referral program. It seems very easy to refute by Steven. Just post that they are still included in the referral system. $2.5M has been raised so far. If this is now excluded that's serious shit. As pointed out numerous times, it is DEMONSTRABLY provable that the referral page WAS changed and that the quarterly payments clause and the waiting period clause was added.
I fail to see how it's "serious shit". Steve thought it was OK to give back some of the KS funds raised, which clearly it isn't. They are now adjusting their stance accordingly?
Are you out a ton of cash, or are you simply disappointed at seeing a perceived windfall evaporate?
So are you admitting that they now changed the policy and are excluding KS pledges? I'd still like to see an official admission or denial on that before I take your word on it.
I have no idea, but it looks like it's pretty clearly against KS policy, which I'm assuming Intrepid was unaware of?
You say you have 100 people signed up by your referral so far: let's assume 10% stick around for the long haul. That's still $22.50 in monthly passive income when the game launches, which I would take any day of the week.
Lets use your numbers. 100 people. Average backer pledge is now $177.34 100 * $177.34 =$17,734 $17,734 x 15% = $2660
That's a LOT of money to stiff people on. And it's pure bullshit IF they changed this (as now published on PCGamer AND MassivelyOP).
The one example I think I saw Steve explain (on why it wasn't MLM) definitely didnt use KSer pledge values.
Rather it involved the monthly sub a referral paid the originator and it was a pretty small amount of money, even with many backers.
Now I understand why you thought there was big money to be made and I suspect you misunderstood what they meant.
Perhaps due to miscommunication by them, but never the less I never thought they planned to share 10-15% of the KSer original take.
I'll be very surprised if it works out they way you are hoping.
Oh yes, when customers misunderstand the terms of a deal stores regularly print prominent corrections in local newspapers (front page even) to clairify, so yes he may be able to get away with changing the wording on the KSer page to be in line with what he really meant.
You are dealing with an expert in "doublespeak" and you know this up front. Expect things to not always be as "you" understand them.
In fact, since this is coming out before the end of the KSer, there really is no harm, no foul, still time for everyone to walk away.
BTW I gave you a few LOLs/WTFs on some of these posts because I feel no sympathy for those who attempt to profiteer from the "grey market" side of gaming.
Support the KSer because you believe in their vision, not to make money. Makes you no better than a MLM scammer in my eyes
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
AKA they are parroting the other story from PC Gamer. Which is supposed to be retracted as not true? If it was true why would Steven lie if it was something he was going to have to do. That would only get him deeper in trouble. Think about it.
I don't know, they seem pretty clear that: Kickstarter examined the situation and determined that Ashes of Creation was in the wrong and had to separate referrals from crowdfunding.
That is the true point and even you, Torval and every other defender has been unable to point to a single clear statement that says the Kickstarter Pledges are still included in the referral program. It seems very easy to refute by Steven. Just post that they are still included in the referral system. $2.5M has been raised so far. If this is now excluded that's serious shit. As pointed out numerous times, it is DEMONSTRABLY provable that the referral page WAS changed and that the quarterly payments clause and the waiting period clause was added.
I fail to see how it's "serious shit". Steve thought it was OK to give back some of the KS funds raised, which clearly it isn't. They are now adjusting their stance accordingly?
Are you out a ton of cash, or are you simply disappointed at seeing a perceived windfall evaporate?
So are you admitting that they now changed the policy and are excluding KS pledges? I'd still like to see an official admission or denial on that before I take your word on it.
I have no idea, but it looks like it's pretty clearly against KS policy, which I'm assuming Intrepid was unaware of?
You say you have 100 people signed up by your referral so far: let's assume 10% stick around for the long haul. That's still $22.50 in monthly passive income when the game launches, which I would take any day of the week.
Lets use your numbers. 100 people. Average backer pledge is now $177.34 100 * $177.34 =$17,734 $17,734 x 15% = $2660
That's a LOT of money to stiff people on. And it's pure bullshit IF they changed this (as now published on PCGamer AND MassivelyOP).
The one example I think I saw Steve explain (on why it wasn't MLM) definitely didnt use KSer pledge values.
Rather it involved the monthly sub a referral paid the originator and it was a pretty small amount of money, even with many backers.
Now I understand why you thought there was big money to be made and I suspect you misunderstood what they meant.
Perhaps due to miscommunication by them, but never the less I never thought they planned to share 10-15% of the KSer original take.
I'll be very surprised if it works out they way you are hoping.
Oh yes, when customers misunderstand the terms of a deal stores regularly print prominent corrections in local newspapers (front page even) to clairify, so yes he may be able to get away with changing the wording on the KSer page to be in line with what he really meant.
You are dealing with an expert in "doublespeak" and you know this up front. Expect things to not always be as "you" understand them.
In fact, since this is coming out before the end of the KSer, there really is no harm, no foul, still time for everyone to walk away.
BTW I gave you a few LOLs/WTFs on some of these posts because I feel no sympathy for those who attempt to profiteer from the "grey market" side of gaming.
Support the KSer because you believe in their vision, not to make money. Makes you no better than a MLM scammer in my eyes
Some valid points. Also note that youtubers were told the $10k number so that is only possible if KS was included. Anything excluding the KS pledges is a revision.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
David Sharif on reddit: "...About 7 years ago I moved into investments and real estate, which is the source of a majority of my success." in regards to his MLM involvement
7 years ago he says he quit the MLM business and yet he was voted nr #67 in a 2013 MLM poll. hrmm... Current year is 2017.
Some quick math for the numerically challenged 2017 - 7 = 2010
So why is he voted for, 3 whole years after he allegedly quit the business?
Saying you moved into investing and real estate isn't saying you quit your other job and do only that now. He did both and that is where he got most of his money.
It's a pyramid scheme game. Players are rewarded for refering multiple people to the game. Just because you reap less benefits of the people you refer, who also refer other people, doesn't stop it from being a pyramid scheme. The amount of levels doesn't matter, the amount of money you earn doesn't matter.
The clear difference between pyramid schemes and MLM's is that MLM's actually have a product.
Ashes of Creation isn't a product (yet).
Also why are you using the word of the guy who is running the pyramid scheme as basis for it not being a pyramid scheme? He is running it. He has an economic interest in saying it's not.
You only earn money from people you refer. You gain nothing from the people under your referrals. Therefore theres no pyramid. Explain to me how that doesn't stop that being a pyramid scheme when it is the core principal of the scheme. Also there is no buy in (you can take part without pledging to the game) therefore there is no risk to your own money. That is the main problem with pyramid schemes. Further, you gain less and less per referral you get. Making it the opposite of how a pyramid scheme would work.
You cant redefine pyramid scheme to make it fit your argument.
It's pretty funny that some guy named "ponzini" is arguing about pyramid schemes.
I've seen it all now.
Damn dude you went for my name again. Nice one. You got me. Nice argument!
If it really looks like they're not going to pay you for those Kickstarter referrals, you might want to start contacting Youtubers who spread their referral links so that you can demand answers and payment together.
It's easy for a large business to ignore a single person. It's much harder for them if a group of popular Youtubers with audience of more than a million start acting together.
If it really looks like they're not going to pay you for those Kickstarter referrals, you might want to start contacting Youtubers who spread their referral links so that you can demand answers and payment together.
It's easy for a large business to ignore a single person. It's much harder for them if a group of popular Youtubers with audience of more than a million start acting together.
Yeah. And it might get the attention of some big name that could help you if that is the case and they did wrong - which I'm waiting an official statement still.
I believe Deltia from Deltia's Gaming was a big promoter. I think he might be a good place to start.
Kind of hard to claim damages when nothing of value was lost.
I don't think you'll get very far with breach of contract, either. Go ahead, though; the popcorn is delicious.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I asked Steven to again make a statement because of your paranoid asses. He said he is going to so look out for that. Not sure where he will post it yet.
I asked Steven to again make a statement because of your paranoid asses. He said he is going to so look out for that. Not sure where he will post it yet.
Hopefully the statement is simply a YES/NO to the question:
Are Kickstarter Pledges included in the referral system?
That's really all it takes. And for those trying to backtrack and claim it was never included, here is a quote from the moderator on their official forums who is giving advice on this very question a few weeks back:
they need to register a account using your referral link, then they can go to the kickstarter and buy a package, at the end of the kickstarter they will be sent a code to apply on the account then it will show in your stats.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Kickstarter has stated that one time financial rewards are acceptable for package pledges on Kickstarter. This was also a part in the PCGamer article,
I reached out to Kickstarter to see what their policy is on the matter.
"Last year we began allowing financial incentives for referrals," they
responded. "But we do not allow revenue or profit sharing, which this
program essentially offers through its payouts over time."
As such, Kickstarter asked us to change the language on our referral program.
The PCGamer was incorrect however in stating;
In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed
Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its
referral program.
This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer. MassivelyOP has now today issued an article based on the PCGamer reporting.
Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.
Intrepid Studios is in close communications with Kickstarter, as we are now their 10th highest funded Video Game project ever.
Let me be clear on another point;
It is COMPLETELY within your rights to be skeptical of our ability to deliver. It is 100% your choice to participate in our project at this stage or any other stage in the future. We do not want someone who is uncomfortable with Ashes of Creation to participate in our crowdsourcing. Everyone at Intrepid Studios is passionately working to make Ashes a game that will make every MMORPG player proud. Honestly, proud. If you disagree with a feature, or you don't like the referral program, do not participate in it.
What is not cool, is the character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to our community or our studios. We are more than that as a community. If you have legitimate concerns or comments, by all means voice them. But try to remember, there are real human beings behind these computer screens.
and 2 others.
Happy to be with you fine ladies and gentlemen on MMORPG.com, hope to participate in healthy discussions about our favorite genre.
In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed
Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its
referral program.
This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer. MassivelyOP has now today issued an article based on the PCGamer reporting.
Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.
Thank you for posting that. I will join you in calling for a retraction on both sites.
To be clear, if my referrals purchase $1000 in pledges I will see a $150 credit that I can ask you to send as cash correct?
Edit to add: Also this part is very troubling
The PCGamer was incorrect however in stating;
In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.
This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer.
If the author outright lied, there should be repercussions. At a minimum he should issue a public apology.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Kickstarter has stated that one time financial rewards are acceptable for package pledges on Kickstarter. This was also a part in the PCGamer article,
I reached out to Kickstarter to see what their policy is on the matter.
"Last year we began allowing financial incentives for referrals," they
responded. "But we do not allow revenue or profit sharing, which this
program essentially offers through its payouts over time."
As such, Kickstarter asked us to change the language on our referral program.
The PCGamer was incorrect however in stating;
In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed
Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its
referral program.
This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer. MassivelyOP has now today issued an article based on the PCGamer reporting.
Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.
Intrepid Studios is in close communications with Kickstarter, as we are now their 10th highest funded Video Game project ever.
Let me be clear on another point;
It is COMPLETELY within your rights to be skeptical of our ability to deliver. It is 100% your choice to participate in our project at this stage or any other stage in the future. We do not want someone who is uncomfortable with Ashes of Creation to participate in our crowdsourcing. Everyone at Intrepid Studios is passionately working to make Ashes a game that will make every MMORPG player proud. Honestly, proud. If you disagree with a feature, or you don't like the referral program, do not participate in it.
What is not cool, is the character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to our community or our studios. We are more than that as a community. If you have legitimate concerns or comments, by all means voice them. But try to remember, there are real human beings behind these computer screens.
So it looks like some people will indeed be seeing thousands of dollars in the near term for simply referring people to the Kickstarter. That's amazing. Mitzvah!
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Well, it's the other sides turn now. MassivelyOP has updated their article to reflect Steven Sharif's statement. The strange thing is why PCGamer is taking so long to retract if that's indeed what they need to do. They could be liable if they don't comply. Then on the other hand Kickstarter could be telling them something different.
Update: Steven Sharif has posted that Kickstarter did indeed request that his team “change the language on [its] referral program” but claims that PC Gamer issued an “outright lie” when the publication wrote, “In response to PC Gamer’s inquiry, Kickstarter told me they’ve informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.”
Sharif says he’s requested a retraction from PC Gamer, but as I type this, PC Gamer has not granted that request for reasons unknown to us. Sharif says that “pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it’s policy of a ‘financial incentive for referrals’ and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.”
To be clear, no one’s contacted me about any error in our piece. PC Gamer has not retracted it as I type this either. I am a little bit skeptical of the mobbing of the PC Gamer author (accusing him of lying is waaay over the top – there’s no reason whatsoever to think he “lied” – it’s far more likely that there’s terminology confusion or that Kickstarter miscommunicated what was going on during that interview). I’m going to update to acknowledge the ongoing dispute, but that’s it for now until it’s clear what’s going on.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm pretty sure PC Gamer would immediately retract if this was the case. I'm not sure what the problem is here. I'm also having trouble grasping why Steven Messner would lie and endanger his entire reputation for no gain whatsoever, it seems unlikely.
Comments
100 * $177.34 =$17,734
$17,734 x 15% = $2660
That's a LOT of money to stiff people on.
And it's pure bullshit IF they changed this (as now published on PCGamer AND MassivelyOP).
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
But... did you have to invest anything to get those returns? Did you sell your soul to the devil or something?
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
I also actually reached out to MMORPG.COM and got their advertising rates. They were too rich for me. Good thing too because I'd be livid and demand that Intrepid pay me back if that had happened.
You can't just make a stealth change like that and not tell anyone. That's bullshit and even the most diehard supporters should join in the condemnation IF this proves true. Everyone who called us "cunts", "douches" and lowlife should publicly apologize but I doubt they will be big enough to do so.
If it proves out that these Kickstarter funds ARE still included then I will join the chorus demanding both PCGamer and Massively retract the articles AND apologize.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Most of us that have been around awhile remember the good old days of SoE before it turned into $oE, but in the years leading up to Sony selling it off, it was known as the place where games went to die. Everything they touched turned to shit, so I can't be all that excited that they picked up the scraps from that shit show to build a team with.
This whole thing seems to hinge on this one guy that is a giant question mark. It is easy to see why he did well in marketing, but that doesn't mean he knows how to run a game studio or make a game. All of us have thought about how we would make an MMORPG if we had the money to fund one and this guy is doing exactly that, so it's no surprise he's drawing a lot of people in on this. I hope it turns out well because the game they pitched sounds great, but I'd be crazy to bet any big amount of money that this is somehow all going to magically work out though. I'll be holding on to my wallet until release or at least something that resembles a real game.
I've seen it all now.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Rather it involved the monthly sub a referral paid the originator and it was a pretty small amount of money, even with many backers.
Now I understand why you thought there was big money to be made and I suspect you misunderstood what they meant.
Perhaps due to miscommunication by them, but never the less I never thought they planned to share 10-15% of the KSer original take.
I'll be very surprised if it works out they way you are hoping.
Oh yes, when customers misunderstand the terms of a deal stores regularly print prominent corrections in local newspapers (front page even) to clairify, so yes he may be able to get away with changing the wording on the KSer page to be in line with what he really meant.
You are dealing with an expert in "doublespeak" and you know this up front. Expect things to not always be as "you" understand them.
In fact, since this is coming out before the end of the KSer, there really is no harm, no foul, still time for everyone to walk away.
BTW I gave you a few LOLs/WTFs on some of these posts because I feel no sympathy for those who attempt to profiteer from the "grey market" side of gaming.
Support the KSer because you believe in their vision, not to make money. Makes you no better than a MLM scammer in my eyes
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If it really looks like they're not going to pay you for those Kickstarter referrals, you might want to start contacting Youtubers who spread their referral links so that you can demand answers and payment together.
It's easy for a large business to ignore a single person. It's much harder for them if a group of popular Youtubers with audience of more than a million start acting together.
I don't think you'll get very far with breach of contract, either. Go ahead, though; the popcorn is delicious.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Are Kickstarter Pledges included in the referral system?
That's really all it takes. And for those trying to backtrack and claim it was never included, here is a quote from the moderator on their official forums who is giving advice on this very question a few weeks back:
they need to register a account using your referral link, then they can go to the kickstarter and buy a package, at the end of the kickstarter they will be sent a code to apply on the account then it will show in your stats.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Kickstarter has stated that one time financial rewards are acceptable for package pledges on Kickstarter. This was also a part in the PCGamer article,
As such, Kickstarter asked us to change the language on our referral program.
The PCGamer was incorrect however in stating;
This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer. MassivelyOP has now today issued an article based on the PCGamer reporting.
Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.
Intrepid Studios is in close communications with Kickstarter, as we are now their 10th highest funded Video Game project ever.
Let me be clear on another point;
It is COMPLETELY within your rights to be skeptical of our ability to deliver. It is 100% your choice to participate in our project at this stage or any other stage in the future. We do not want someone who is uncomfortable with Ashes of Creation to participate in our crowdsourcing. Everyone at Intrepid Studios is passionately working to make Ashes a game that will make every MMORPG player proud. Honestly, proud. If you disagree with a feature, or you don't like the referral program, do not participate in it.
What is not cool, is the character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to our community or our studios. We are more than that as a community. If you have legitimate concerns or comments, by all means voice them. But try to remember, there are real human beings behind these computer screens.
Founder/Creative Director @ Intrepid Studios
Building upcoming MMORPG Ashes of Creation
Discord
To be clear, if my referrals purchase $1000 in pledges I will see a $150 credit that I can ask you to send as cash correct?
Edit to add: Also this part is very troubling
The PCGamer was incorrect however in stating;
This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer.
If the author outright lied, there should be repercussions. At a minimum he should issue a public apology.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Good to know, I won't ever be backing anything on their site ever again.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Update: Steven Sharif has posted that Kickstarter did indeed request that his team “change the language on [its] referral program” but claims that PC Gamer issued an “outright lie” when the publication wrote, “In response to PC Gamer’s inquiry, Kickstarter told me they’ve informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.”
Sharif says he’s requested a retraction from PC Gamer, but as I type this, PC Gamer has not granted that request for reasons unknown to us. Sharif says that “pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it’s policy of a ‘financial incentive for referrals’ and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.”
We’ll update when we know more.
http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/27/ashes-of-creation-revises-referral-program-unlocks-underrealm-race-and-shows-freehold-housing/
To be clear, no one’s contacted me about any error in our piece. PC Gamer has not retracted it as I type this either. I am a little bit skeptical of the mobbing of the PC Gamer author (accusing him of lying is waaay over the top – there’s no reason whatsoever to think he “lied” – it’s far more likely that there’s terminology confusion or that Kickstarter miscommunicated what was going on during that interview). I’m going to update to acknowledge the ongoing dispute, but that’s it for now until it’s clear what’s going on.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Kickstarter rules: https://www.kickstarter.com/rules