I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.
Bree Royce
Cringe. Not sure whom he thinks that’s helping.
I'm going to assume that Steven posted the truth here so I will defend him.
If I were the subject of an article and it got something really important wrong like this I would be pissed too. I wish he had simply posted yes/no to the question instead of the really long answer that I still struggle to parse, but it seems like it was a YES, the Kickstarter Pledges count for the referral system based on the first phrase in his answer.
The author claimed the opposite.. and when there are $2.5M pledged to the Kickstarter that is a BIG mistake. If Kickstarter told him this, as he stated in his article he should immediately make that communication public. If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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I do think it's questionable to use reddit as a source, anyone can write anything there with little in the way of accountability. It's not much different than if he were to use our posts as a source for an investigative article.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Revenue sharing vs. one time revenue share incentive is not exactly a clear distinction. He actually exposed a huge potential problem which is his job.
You can invite people to join you on another site to take part in your discussion without linking all of the comments back and forth between you and one of their writers.
If you want to participate in the discussion, please do. Simply copy / pasting links or comments from another site doesn't really add much to the discussion.
You have a lot to say. So say what YOU have to say as you have been!
I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.
Bree Royce
Cringe. Not sure whom he thinks that’s helping.
I'm going to assume that Steven posted the truth here so I will defend him.
If I were the subject of an article and it got something really important wrong like this I would be pissed too. I wish he had simply posted yes/no to the question instead of the really long answer that I still struggle to parse, but it seems like it was a YES, the Kickstarter Pledges count for the referral system based on the first phrase in his answer.
The author claimed the opposite.. and when there are $2.5M pledged to the Kickstarter that is a BIG mistake. If Kickstarter told him this, as he stated in his article he should immediately make that communication public. If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.
Why do you only understand yes or no? It wasn't a confusing post.
"Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter."
It doesn't get any more crystal clear than that. *facepalm*
Revenue sharing vs. one time revenue share incentive is not exactly a clear distinction. He actually exposed a huge potential problem which is his job.
I do agree and if it is NOT retracted and is wrong PC Gamer is going to be shouldering the liability. That's what doesn't make sense to me. Something like this would IMMEDIATELY be removed in most situations or responded to promptly eg. MassivelyOp. They should have a way to verify this or have a way to contact Messner.
PC Gamer is a twenty-three year old company it's not some fly-by-night news contributor.
I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.
Bree Royce
Cringe. Not sure whom he thinks that’s helping.
I'm going to assume that Steven posted the truth here so I will defend him.
If I were the subject of an article and it got something really important wrong like this I would be pissed too. I wish he had simply posted yes/no to the question instead of the really long answer that I still struggle to parse, but it seems like it was a YES, the Kickstarter Pledges count for the referral system based on the first phrase in his answer.
The author claimed the opposite.. and when there are $2.5M pledged to the Kickstarter that is a BIG mistake. If Kickstarter told him this, as he stated in his article he should immediately make that communication public. If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.
Why do you only understand yes or no? It wasn't a confusing post.
"Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter."
It doesn't get any more crystal clear than that. *facepalm*
Look Im defending the guy.. why make it difficult?
My point is why couldn't he have stopped at: Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it
What does this part add other than to qualify the first part? that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.
I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.
Bree Royce
Cringe. Not sure whom he thinks that’s helping.
I'm going to assume that Steven posted the truth here so I will defend him.
If I were the subject of an article and it got something really important wrong like this I would be pissed too. I wish he had simply posted yes/no to the question instead of the really long answer that I still struggle to parse, but it seems like it was a YES, the Kickstarter Pledges count for the referral system based on the first phrase in his answer.
The author claimed the opposite.. and when there are $2.5M pledged to the Kickstarter that is a BIG mistake. If Kickstarter told him this, as he stated in his article he should immediately make that communication public. If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.
Why do you only understand yes or no? It wasn't a confusing post.
"Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter."
It doesn't get any more crystal clear than that. *facepalm*
It's always best to side with caution on matters like this, especially when it's he said vs he said. While it looks clear, you can never be 100% certain there isn't some fine print left out of such an answer. So I understand why Slap would take that position, a flat yes or no is simply a better answer than carefully worded legalese.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I guess I am just irritated that I had to ask Steven to come back to essentially say the same thing because people are so paranoid. He was being specific because you guys like to pick apart all of his posts letting you know it remains in accordance with kickstarters policy. If he hadn't said that one of these other bozos would be still on that subject as well.
I need to take a break from trying to ease all your minds. lol
I guess I am just irritated that I had to ask Steven to come back to essentially say the same thing because people are so paranoid. He was being specific because you guys like to pick apart all of his posts letting you know it remains in accordance with kickstarters policy. If he hadn't said that one of these other bozos would be still on that subject as well.
I need to take a break from trying to ease all your minds. lol
It's not that people pick apart all of his posts it's that things like this have happened before and you have to be careful. Right now we're just wondering why PC Gamer, a twenty-three year old company, is not complying with Steven Sharif.
I guess I am just irritated that I had to ask Steven to come back to essentially say the same thing because people are so paranoid. He was being specific because you guys like to pick apart all of his posts letting you know it remains in accordance with kickstarters policy. If he hadn't said that one of these other bozos would be still on that subject as well.
I need to take a break from trying to ease all your minds. lol
It's not that people pick apart all of his posts it's that things like this have happened before and you have to be careful. Right now we're just wondering why PC Gamer, a twenty-three year old company, is not complying with Steven Sharif.
There are two sides to every story.
My guess is that it simply is a holiday weekend and the editor would have to get and read Steven''s complaint, then reach out to his writer, and then formulate a response.
I wouldn't read the delay as them standing behind the story (or the opposite). This should be pretty easy to prove or disprove. The author has made a specific claim: In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.
That either happened... or it didn't. If it happened.. they can easily prove it. If it didn't happen, they need to retract the article, apologize AND dig into the details to determine if this guy should ever write for them again.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Why is this reminding me of the hit piece The Escapist did on Star Citizen way back when... out of the blue Chris Roberts was thrown into a situation where he had to defend the credibility of his company and his family and what I remember was a lot of raw media and news drama for a couple days.
This isn't nearly as epic as an episode in game crowdfunding drama, but damn if it doesn't ring the bell. I'm guessing Steve is already pretty tapped by this Kickstarter and in the homestretch, PCGamer throws him under the bus in great white knight fashion. Steve reacts with an Official Statement posted on MMORPG forums, one that probably didn't get hammered out by any of his peers or teammates prior to posting.
Cut they guy some slack people, he came, he saw, he said the pledges count.
I guess I am just irritated that I had to ask Steven to come back to essentially say the same thing because people are so paranoid. He was being specific because you guys like to pick apart all of his posts letting you know it remains in accordance with kickstarters policy. If he hadn't said that one of these other bozos would be still on that subject as well.
I need to take a break from trying to ease all your minds. lol
It's not that people pick apart all of his posts it's that things like this have happened before and you have to be careful. Right now we're just wondering why PC Gamer, a twenty-three year old company, is not complying with Steven Sharif.
There are two sides to every story.
My guess is that it simply is a holiday weekend and the editor would have to get and read Steven''s complaint, then reach out to his writer, and then formulate a response.
I wouldn't read the delay as them standing behind the story (or the opposite). This should be pretty easy to prove or disprove. The author has made a specific claim: In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.
That either happened... or it didn't. If it happened.. they can easily prove it. If it didn't happen, they need to retract the article, apologize AND dig into the details to determine if this guy should ever write for them again.
Magazines and News media have stand by people in the event of something like this. Allowing it to "ride" can increase damages. They have to have someone to deal with this it's too much of a liability.
I guess I am just irritated that I had to ask Steven to come back to essentially say the same thing because people are so paranoid. He was being specific because you guys like to pick apart all of his posts letting you know it remains in accordance with kickstarters policy. If he hadn't said that one of these other bozos would be still on that subject as well.
I need to take a break from trying to ease all your minds. lol
It's not that people pick apart all of his posts it's that things like this have happened before and you have to be careful. Right now we're just wondering why PC Gamer, a twenty-three year old company, is not complying with Steven Sharif.
There are two sides to every story.
My guess is that it simply is a holiday weekend and the editor would have to get and read Steven''s complaint, then reach out to his writer, and then formulate a response.
I wouldn't read the delay as them standing behind the story (or the opposite). This should be pretty easy to prove or disprove. The author has made a specific claim: In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.
That either happened... or it didn't. If it happened.. they can easily prove it. If it didn't happen, they need to retract the article, apologize AND dig into the details to determine if this guy should ever write for them again.
Magazines and News media have stand by people in the event of something like this. Allowing it to "ride" can increase damages. They have to have someone to deal with this it's too much of a liability.
PCGamer isn't exactly the NYTimes
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Why is this reminding me of the hit piece The Escapist did on Star Citizen way back when... out of the blue Chris Roberts was thrown into a situation where he had to defend the credibility of his company and his family and what I remember was a lot of raw media and news drama for a couple days.
This isn't nearly as epic as an episode in game crowdfunding drama, but damn if it doesn't ring the bell. I'm guessing Steve is already pretty tapped by this Kickstarter and in the homestretch, PCGamer throws him under the bus in great white knight fashion. Steve reacts with an Official Statement posted on MMORPG forums, one that probably didn't get hammered out by any of his peers or teammates prior to posting.
Cut they guy some slack people, he came, he saw, he said the pledges count.
That's the thing, Steve don't owe us any explanation. He should just post an official statement on their official medias.
It's great he takes the time to come here, that kind of interaction is really good for our community, but not the priority.
Agreed. Once again, if what Sharif is saying is true I'd be blasting it on PC Gamer comments, going to great lengths to get it out to the masses, not just posting here.
I guess I am just irritated that I had to ask Steven to come back to essentially say the same thing because people are so paranoid. He was being specific because you guys like to pick apart all of his posts letting you know it remains in accordance with kickstarters policy. If he hadn't said that one of these other bozos would be still on that subject as well.
I need to take a break from trying to ease all your minds. lol
It's not that people pick apart all of his posts it's that things like this have happened before and you have to be careful. Right now we're just wondering why PC Gamer, a twenty-three year old company, is not complying with Steven Sharif.
There are two sides to every story.
My guess is that it simply is a holiday weekend and the editor would have to get and read Steven''s complaint, then reach out to his writer, and then formulate a response.
I wouldn't read the delay as them standing behind the story (or the opposite). This should be pretty easy to prove or disprove. The author has made a specific claim: In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.
That either happened... or it didn't. If it happened.. they can easily prove it. If it didn't happen, they need to retract the article, apologize AND dig into the details to determine if this guy should ever write for them again.
Magazines and News media have stand by people in the event of something like this. Allowing it to "ride" can increase damages. They have to have someone to deal with this it's too much of a liability.
PCGamer isn't exactly the NYTimes
Right but Sharif can now allege more "loss" the longer it sits there. That's why this can be dangerous. Further, things have been posted on PC Gamer today so someone is alive there. They just aren't complying with Steven Sharif.
I guess I am just irritated that I had to ask Steven to come back to essentially say the same thing because people are so paranoid. He was being specific because you guys like to pick apart all of his posts letting you know it remains in accordance with kickstarters policy. If he hadn't said that one of these other bozos would be still on that subject as well.
I need to take a break from trying to ease all your minds. lol
It's not that people pick apart all of his posts it's that things like this have happened before and you have to be careful. Right now we're just wondering why PC Gamer, a twenty-three year old company, is not complying with Steven Sharif.
There are two sides to every story.
My guess is that it simply is a holiday weekend and the editor would have to get and read Steven''s complaint, then reach out to his writer, and then formulate a response.
I wouldn't read the delay as them standing behind the story (or the opposite). This should be pretty easy to prove or disprove. The author has made a specific claim: In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.
That either happened... or it didn't. If it happened.. they can easily prove it. If it didn't happen, they need to retract the article, apologize AND dig into the details to determine if this guy should ever write for them again.
Magazines and News media have stand by people in the event of something like this. Allowing it to "ride" can increase damages. They have to have someone to deal with this it's too much of a liability.
PCGamer isn't exactly the NYTimes
PCGamer has a space on E3, NYTimes don't. We are talking about games here, not political scandals.
IN terms of accountability game journalists really don't live by the same creed as outlets like those. Most would have forgotten about such a piece by the time the next runs around. It's not likely other publications are going to come out in mass against PCgamer, which would be the problem for a major outlet, and why they retract as they do.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The accusation is that Steve Messner literally "made up" this quote:
I reached out to Kickstarter to see what their policy is on the matter. "Last year we began allowing financial incentives for referrals," they responded. "But we do not allow revenue or profit sharing, which this program essentially offers through its payouts over time."
I am just finding that hard to believe. Why would he just fabricate that quote?
The accusation is that Steve Messner literally "made up" this quote:
I reached out to Kickstarter to see what their policy is on the matter. "Last year we began allowing financial incentives for referrals," they responded. "But we do not allow revenue or profit sharing, which this program essentially offers through its payouts over time."
I am just finding that hard to believe. Why would he just fabricate that quote?
To me that stance would make the most sense, I mean it isn't exactly a respectable practice to take donated money and spend it that way. IE basically taking donated money meant to pay for development/employee wages, to pay for the spread of viral marketing.
That seems like something the company should wait to do, at least until they have a solid footing and foundation, preferably an actual product to sell. Not while they're in the dreamer stages, or when it's not even their money they're promising to pay out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
taking donated money meant to pay for development/employee wages, to pay for the spread of viral marketing.
Exactly.
Apparently KS is ok with people using their platform to promote affiliate marketing campaigns as long as it is a 'one time' incentive.
I just don't get why people are ok with donating their money to big youtubers and not game development.
One thing I will say is at least Intrepid is honest about it. I'd much rather see this than car I mean spaceship commercials.
It's shaping up to be an interesting chapter in the annals of Kickstarter, to be sure.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I feel like Steven's response on discord and reddit has been more emotional than professional by calling out the journalist as having an agenda. Hopefully this does not damage reputations over what may very likely be a misunderstanding, miscommunication or confusion by the journalist. Though I don't blame Steven for his reaction considering there is an article that could do damage to the kickstarter and digs up controversy from reddit.
I feel like Steven's response on discord and reddit has been more emotional than professional by calling out the journalist as having an agenda. Hopefully this does not damage reputations over what may very likely be a misunderstanding, miscommunication or confusion by the journalist. Though I don't blame Steven for his reaction considering there is an article that could do damage to the kickstarter and digs up controversy from reddit.
Yeah, I do agree. Steven Sharif shouldn't really call people out as having an agenda, being paid by competitors, etc. It doesn't seem like a good position to take with PR.
In fact, I'd even go as far as to say he should have his Community Manager lady(I forgot her name) make responses on behalf of Intrepid. They should be very serious and emotionless without any naming or shaming. That's just how you have to be in business.
Comments
Cringe. Not sure whom he thinks that’s helping.
Link to Bree Royce's Comment Slapshot1188 posted: http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/27/ashes-of-creation-revises-referral-program-unlocks-underrealm-race-and-shows-freehold-housing/#comment-424982
Link to Bree Royce's Comment I posted: http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/27/ashes-of-creation-revises-referral-program-unlocks-underrealm-race-and-shows-freehold-housing/#comment-425001
If I were the subject of an article and it got something really important wrong like this I would be pissed too. I wish he had simply posted yes/no to the question instead of the really long answer that I still struggle to parse, but it seems like it was a YES, the Kickstarter Pledges count for the referral system based on the first phrase in his answer.
The author claimed the opposite.. and when there are $2.5M pledged to the Kickstarter that is a BIG mistake. If Kickstarter told him this, as he stated in his article he should immediately make that communication public. If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That is going way to far.
Revenue sharing vs. one time revenue share incentive is not exactly a clear distinction. He actually exposed a huge potential problem which is his job.
If you want to participate in the discussion, please do. Simply copy / pasting links or comments from another site doesn't really add much to the discussion.
You have a lot to say. So say what YOU have to say as you have been!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter."
It doesn't get any more crystal clear than that. *facepalm*
PC Gamer is a twenty-three year old company it's not some fly-by-night news contributor.
My point is why couldn't he have stopped at:
Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it
What does this part add other than to qualify the first part?
that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.
Rule #1... keep it simple.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I need to take a break from trying to ease all your minds. lol
There are two sides to every story.
I wouldn't read the delay as them standing behind the story (or the opposite). This should be pretty easy to prove or disprove. The author has made a specific claim: In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.
That either happened... or it didn't. If it happened.. they can easily prove it. If it didn't happen, they need to retract the article, apologize AND dig into the details to determine if this guy should ever write for them again.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This isn't nearly as epic as an episode in game crowdfunding drama, but damn if it doesn't ring the bell. I'm guessing Steve is already pretty tapped by this Kickstarter and in the homestretch, PCGamer throws him under the bus in great white knight fashion. Steve reacts with an Official Statement posted on MMORPG forums, one that probably didn't get hammered out by any of his peers or teammates prior to posting.
Cut they guy some slack people, he came, he saw, he said the pledges count.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I reached out to Kickstarter to see what their policy is on the matter. "Last year we began allowing financial incentives for referrals," they responded. "But we do not allow revenue or profit sharing, which this program essentially offers through its payouts over time."
I am just finding that hard to believe. Why would he just fabricate that quote?
That seems like something the company should wait to do, at least until they have a solid footing and foundation, preferably an actual product to sell. Not while they're in the dreamer stages, or when it's not even their money they're promising to pay out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Apparently KS is ok with people using their platform to promote affiliate marketing campaigns as long as it is a 'one time' incentive.
I just don't get why people are ok with donating their money to big youtubers and not game development.
It's shaping up to be an interesting chapter in the annals of Kickstarter, to be sure.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
In fact, I'd even go as far as to say he should have his Community Manager lady(I forgot her name) make responses on behalf of Intrepid. They should be very serious and emotionless without any naming or shaming. That's just how you have to be in business.