You can give examples of larger AAA game development teams than CIG has, and I just gave examples of smaller. So I think we should agree that CIG development team is pretty average for an AAA game. Not smaller than usual like you're trying to game.
I compare the scale and complexity of development project to the development team. A full SP Campaign on one side, one MMO in the other.
If SC was only one of those, sure, but it's literally trying to do two games at once, hence the team as it shows is very split between SQ42/SC expect on the stuff both games need and benefit from.
When they want that super duper fidelity landing zones and planets full if assets and their unique vibe, they literally need one army of artists and designers that they don't have, so we see that pipeline going quite slowly (likely prioritizing SQ42). Also engineering debt, it's noticeable the game needs so much tech pieces but they only work on so much at one time, constantly blocking progress on other areas.
I think the budget is clearly AAA, but the current development team size tackling SQ42 and SC at once, with the added need of building core tech to support the game, they should have more.
Why wouldn't they just use one of many available video chat / conference software options? When playing with others money one would think they would think about things like this to prevent unnecessary spending.
Why wouldn't they just use one of many available video chat / conference software options? When playing with others money one would think they would think about things like this to prevent unnecessary spending.
What do you think they use every day? lol
The traveling is mostly based on overseeing and company summits that fall upon on the heads of the company ofc.
For the people who are comparing this company to other studios with multiple locations. Please don't. Those studios are actually releasing games and putting out content for the ones they have, they have more than tech demos out. They also have games to buy, not pretend ships that have not been released in a game yet.
I really hope this game releases because I really want to play it but seriously this is comical. Do companies have face to face meetings? Yes but most start up companies don't have this many studios spread around the world with no product to back it up.
For the people who are comparing this company to other studios with multiple locations. Please don't. Those studios are actually releasing games and putting out content for the ones they have, they have more than tech demos out. They also have games to buy, not pretend ships that have not been released in a game yet.
I really hope this game releases because I really want to play it but seriously this is comical. Do companies have face to face meetings? Yes but most start up companies don't have this many studios spread around the world with no product to back it up.
The fact the game is not released yet and CIG is a new company with multiple studios across the world do not change the fact of how development works within multiple studios. You do compare because they work the same way on the project they are developing, being released or have released games before is irrelevant to that setup.
Star Citizen is an upcoming massively multiplayer, space trading and combat computer game ... Star Citizen was announced in 2012 with an estimated release date of 2014, and has since been delayed repeatedly. Just ROFL what a joke.
Star Citizen is an upcoming massively multiplayer, space trading and combat computer game ... Star Citizen was announced in 2012 with an estimated release date of 2014, and has since been delayed repeatedly. Just ROFL what a joke.
What's ROFL is people thinking this game could be made in two years after all the stretch goals were met. This is a 5 to 6 year project.
If that was the case they could of at least brought some out with update, and got the game out to the fans asap, not waiting 5-6 years, imo still wow holy hell wtf is going on just blows my little head.
If that was the case they could of at least brought some out with update, and got the game out to the fans asap, not waiting 5-6 years, imo still wow holy hell wtf is going on just blows my little head.
I can wait, I have other games to play and my life is not on any terminal stage. gg me \o/
More focused on waiting for the next major update than worrying and getting frustrated at release dates attm. The next major update is to hit the game this summer.
For the people who are comparing this company to other studios with multiple locations. Please don't. Those studios are actually releasing games and putting out content for the ones they have, they have more than tech demos out. They also have games to buy, not pretend ships that have not been released in a game yet.
I really hope this game releases because I really want to play it but seriously this is comical. Do companies have face to face meetings? Yes but most start up companies don't have this many studios spread around the world with no product to back it up.
The fact the game is not released yet and CIG is a new company with multiple studios across the world do not change the fact of how development works within multiple studios. You do compare because they work the same way on the project they are developing, being released or have released games before is irrelevant to that setup.
You still cant compare what CIG is doing to for example what Rockstar, Bioware, Bethesda, is doing/have done. My point of not releasing anything is the fact the only thing this company can seem to do is release fake ships for a game that is nothing more than a tech demo after being in development for how many years?
I'm not going to say anything more because I don't want to be that guy who is raining on other peoples game, I really do hope I'm wrong but it just seems to me there's mismanagement somewhere or we would have something more by now.
You still cant compare what CIG is doing to for example what Rockstar, Bioware, Bethesda, is doing/have done. My point of not releasing anything is the fact the only thing this company can seem to do is release fake ships for a game that is nothing more than a tech demo after being in development for how many years?
I'm not going to say anything more because I don't want to be that guy who is raining on other peoples game, I really do hope I'm wrong but it just seems to me there's mismanagement somewhere or we would have something more by now.
As of developing a game within multiple studios, yes, they also do that, it falls on the same boxes of the setup, workflow, production, etc... independent of game being released or not.
My fake ship is very much flyable on an alpha that I had and still have fun playing, even being just a fraction of what the game is meant to be. The game continues dev and releasing updates as the game progresses towards what is meant to be is what really matters for me.
Star Citizen is an upcoming massively multiplayer, space trading and combat computer game ... Star Citizen was announced in 2012 with an estimated release date of 2014, and has since been delayed repeatedly. Just ROFL what a joke.
What's ROFL is people thinking this game could be made in two years after all the stretch goals were met. This is a 5 to 6 year project.
I dare say a lot of people believed Chris when he said additional funds would allow them to produce the game faster, if there is any criticism to be levied it should be at CIG for not revising people's expectations.
Generally all they said was that some of the additional features would be coming after release whereas they should have been quite clear that all the added scope would severely increase the time to produce the game.
Just think if they fail hard,bringing out a poor launch and everyone goes nuts, would make for a great popcorn day.
The "launch" will be easy. The alpha will become a beta which increasing numbers will be invited to stress test the game. And only when things are running will it be declared "live".
The alpha is out there. The basis of many supporters expectations. What many people have used for deciding whether SC has "a chance". It cuts through hype; cuts through negativity.
Just think if they fail hard,bringing out a poor launch and everyone goes nuts, would make for a great popcorn day.
The "launch" will be easy. The alpha will become a beta which increasing numbers will be invited to stress test the game. And only when things are running will it be declared "live".
The alpha is out there. The basis of many supporters expectations. What many people have used for deciding whether SC has "a chance". It cuts through hype; cuts through negativity.
the thing is for so many people 'backing' this game. Their fantasy 2 million or whatever it is number no one plays the tech demo. They get SMALL spikes when they release (what they call) major updates, but I think theyre scared that when they do announce something the reception is going to be a joke.
This whole project is all about optics and what people see or perceive not what is actually happening.
Remember when GW2 and ESO and other actually popular franchises and releases had people all over the internet begging for invites and crying when they didnt get them?
So if SC and its 2 million (or whatever they claim) 'citizens' announces some 'special' closed testing (oh wait they already did that) and people dont get invited will their be tears?
Like I have said for the past couple years this is the game with the most hype, most money (allegedly) and most people waiting for it in history. Yet it has almost zero anticipation. If the meter doesnt tick up with 3.0 (and it probably wont if they deliver what I think theyre going to deliver) then I think people can stick a nail in this one. Despite the nonsense people want to sell about it.
Just think if they fail hard,bringing out a poor launch and everyone goes nuts, would make for a great popcorn day.
The "launch" will be easy. The alpha will become a beta which increasing numbers will be invited to stress test the game. And only when things are running will it be declared "live".
The alpha is out there. The basis of many supporters expectations. What many people have used for deciding whether SC has "a chance". It cuts through hype; cuts through negativity.
the thing is for so many people 'backing' this game. Their fantasy 2 million or whatever it is number no one plays the tech demo. They get SMALL spikes when they release (what they call) major updates, but I think theyre scared that when they do announce something the reception is going to be a joke.
This whole project is all about optics and what people see or perceive not what is actually happening.
Remember when GW2 and ESO and other actually popular franchises and releases had people all over the internet begging for invites and crying when they didnt get them?
So if SC and its 2 million (or whatever they claim) 'citizens' announces some 'special' closed testing (oh wait they already did that) and people dont get invited will their be tears?
Like I have said for the past couple years this is the game with the most hype, most money (allegedly) and most people waiting for it in history. Yet it has almost zero anticipation. If the meter doesnt tick up with 3.0 (and it probably wont if they deliver what I think theyre going to deliver) then I think people can stick a nail in this one. Despite the nonsense people want to sell about it.
It's not often I agree with you on anything. What I will agree on with you here is that SC is built on hype (and controversy). The biggest challenge facing ANY product is the hype curve. This is especially true with crowdfunded games. They need to create hype during their campaign, which will inevitably fall off afterwards. HOWEVER! They also need to re-create that hype at launch or, basically, nobody cares. Star Citizen is anomalous in that it continues to generate income on a monthly basis that can sustain a staff of developers that most companies couldn't afford. So, as of right now, SC is defying the hype curve and maintaining a high level of interest throughout it's development cycle. OR! At their plateau are they just making more money than most? It's tough to say.
Either way, people pointing at things like Twitch numbers or people actually playing a game that is in an incomplete state are silly. Personally, I haven't played it in nearly 6 months, and I probably won't until 3.0 launches. Why? I don't do wipes. I'm older now and my time is more valuable to me than ever. So I'm not going to waste time in a game that will inevitably wipe my progress at launch. I just did the same with Marvel Heroes Omega, played CBT for like 2 hours, have about 6 hours in already following launch of OBT.
I think that it will be more telling when it reaches open beta and is feature complete.
Star Citizen is an upcoming massively multiplayer, space trading and combat computer game ... Star Citizen was announced in 2012 with an estimated release date of 2014, and has since been delayed repeatedly. Just ROFL what a joke.
What's ROFL is people thinking this game could be made in two years after all the stretch goals were met. This is a 5 to 6 year project.
What is even more ROFL is that when you read the stretch goals, they make very little sense. Like this one:
"Procedural Generation R&D Team – This stretch goal
will allocate funding for Cloud Imperium to develop procedural
generation technology for future iterations of Star Citizen. Advanced
procedural generation will be necessary for creating entire planets
worth of exploration and development content. A special strike team of
procedural generation-oriented developers will be assembled to make this
technology a reality."
This stretch goal was for moving from 39 million to 40 million. So, Chris is saying that for only one million dollars, he can hire a "strike team" and add PG to the game.
I would also like to mention that in 2013 Chris specifically said that stretch goals would not delay the 2014 release of the game. How is that for ROFL?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
*** ...then I think people can stick a nail in this one. ***
90 days. TOPS! ;-) (2.Okt 2015) (one of eight similar tweets)
Have fun
not sure what that means but if its in reference to 2.0 then you proved my point. What has changed with what is actually AVAILABLE to experience?
You guys LOVE to brag about the numbers. How many 'citizens' there are, how much money they have raised (allegedly) all the (fake) movies they make claiming its in game footage (yet no one other than internal sources has 'played' it).
Sooner or later they have to shit or get off the pot.
Promises only get you so far. Although with this ones its been an extremely long trip.
If they release a load of crap and slap 3.0 on it and people still swallow it and throw money at them then those people deserve what they get when this thing folds up. because CiG has already taken full advantage of people with more money than brains so if they get away with putting out something else that doesnt get the game closer to release and STILL have people giving them money then you will never see anything. Because why bother releasing something(anything) when you can get rich and make a living by continuing to do what they do?
I wouldnt release a game either if I could live like a rockstar off the stupidity of others. And I have semi decent morals. But at some point you have to figure people get what they deserve and if its not you it would be someone else. I suspect thats how Roberts and co are justifying it to themselves at this point.
Just think if they fail hard,bringing out a poor launch and everyone goes nuts, would make for a great popcorn day.
The "launch" will be easy. The alpha will become a beta which increasing numbers will be invited to stress test the game. And only when things are running will it be declared "live".
The alpha is out there. The basis of many supporters expectations. What many people have used for deciding whether SC has "a chance". It cuts through hype; cuts through negativity.
the thing is for so many people 'backing' this game. Their fantasy 2 million or whatever it is number no one plays the tech demo. They get SMALL spikes when they release (what they call) major updates, but I think theyre scared that when they do announce something the reception is going to be a joke.
This whole project is all about optics and what people see or perceive not what is actually happening.
Remember when GW2 and ESO and other actually popular franchises and releases had people all over the internet begging for invites and crying when they didnt get them?
So if SC and its 2 million (or whatever they claim) 'citizens' announces some 'special' closed testing (oh wait they already did that) and people dont get invited will their be tears?
Like I have said for the past couple years this is the game with the most hype, most money (allegedly) and most people waiting for it in history. Yet it has almost zero anticipation. If the meter doesnt tick up with 3.0 (and it probably wont if they deliver what I think theyre going to deliver) then I think people can stick a nail in this one. Despite the nonsense people want to sell about it.
It's not often I agree with you on anything. What I will agree on with you here is that SC is built on hype (and controversy). The biggest challenge facing ANY product is the hype curve. This is especially true with crowdfunded games. They need to create hype during their campaign, which will inevitably fall off afterwards. HOWEVER! They also need to re-create that hype at launch or, basically, nobody cares. Star Citizen is anomalous in that it continues to generate income on a monthly basis that can sustain a staff of developers that most companies couldn't afford. So, as of right now, SC is defying the hype curve and maintaining a high level of interest throughout it's development cycle. OR! At their plateau are they just making more money than most? It's tough to say.
Either way, people pointing at things like Twitch numbers or people actually playing a game that is in an incomplete state are silly. Personally, I haven't played it in nearly 6 months, and I probably won't until 3.0 launches. Why? I don't do wipes. I'm older now and my time is more valuable to me than ever. So I'm not going to waste time in a game that will inevitably wipe my progress at launch. I just did the same with Marvel Heroes Omega, played CBT for like 2 hours, have about 6 hours in already following launch of OBT.
I think that it will be more telling when it reaches open beta and is feature complete.
There are a lot of crappy unfinished games no one ever heard of that have more people playing them than SC does. So thats (still) a pretty weak argument.
Also why I say if the numbers dont spike to something extreme with the release of 3.0 (no matter what it actually turns out to be). Then it 'should' be over. Even if its crap no one can know that and to know that they have to log in and try it. If they dont even log in then I dont know what else to say. Especially considering this has been the focus since the conventions last summer and its been nearly a year in the making and hyping..........
Just think if they fail hard,bringing out a poor launch and everyone goes nuts, would make for a great popcorn day.
The "launch" will be easy. The alpha will become a beta which increasing numbers will be invited to stress test the game. And only when things are running will it be declared "live".
The alpha is out there. The basis of many supporters expectations. What many people have used for deciding whether SC has "a chance". It cuts through hype; cuts through negativity.
the thing is for so many people 'backing' this game. Their fantasy 2 million or whatever it is number no one plays the tech demo. They get SMALL spikes when they release (what they call) major updates, but I think theyre scared that when they do announce something the reception is going to be a joke.
This whole project is all about optics and what people see or perceive not what is actually happening.
Remember when GW2 and ESO and other actually popular franchises and releases had people all over the internet begging for invites and crying when they didnt get them?
So if SC and its 2 million (or whatever they claim) 'citizens' announces some 'special' closed testing (oh wait they already did that) and people dont get invited will their be tears?
Like I have said for the past couple years this is the game with the most hype, most money (allegedly) and most people waiting for it in history. Yet it has almost zero anticipation. If the meter doesnt tick up with 3.0 (and it probably wont if they deliver what I think theyre going to deliver) then I think people can stick a nail in this one. Despite the nonsense people want to sell about it.
It's not often I agree with you on anything. What I will agree on with you here is that SC is built on hype (and controversy). The biggest challenge facing ANY product is the hype curve. This is especially true with crowdfunded games. They need to create hype during their campaign, which will inevitably fall off afterwards. HOWEVER! They also need to re-create that hype at launch or, basically, nobody cares. Star Citizen is anomalous in that it continues to generate income on a monthly basis that can sustain a staff of developers that most companies couldn't afford. So, as of right now, SC is defying the hype curve and maintaining a high level of interest throughout it's development cycle. OR! At their plateau are they just making more money than most? It's tough to say.
Either way, people pointing at things like Twitch numbers or people actually playing a game that is in an incomplete state are silly. Personally, I haven't played it in nearly 6 months, and I probably won't until 3.0 launches. Why? I don't do wipes. I'm older now and my time is more valuable to me than ever. So I'm not going to waste time in a game that will inevitably wipe my progress at launch. I just did the same with Marvel Heroes Omega, played CBT for like 2 hours, have about 6 hours in already following launch of OBT.
I think that it will be more telling when it reaches open beta and is feature complete.
There are a lot of crappy unfinished games no one ever heard of that have more people playing them than SC does. So thats (still) a pretty weak argument.
Also why I say if the numbers dont spike to something extreme with the release of 3.0 (no matter what it actually turns out to be). Then it 'should' be over. Even if its crap no one can know that and to know that they have to log in and try it. If they dont even log in then I dont know what else to say. Especially considering this has been the focus since the conventions last summer and its been nearly a year in the making and hyping..........
Lol, are you so interested in arguing that even when someone is agreeing with you, you feel the need to tell them that they're wrong? Do you understand that by doing so, you're effectively saying that you're also wrong? Lol, you're hilarious sometimes.
If the usual pattern follows. 3.0 will be unfinished and people will have to start looking forward to the patches and further updates. Just like 2.6 was. It will have some bugs that need to be worked out. It will be the start of laying out a foundation for the game. Hopefully with not a lot of reworks.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Kinda crazy that Chris is signing off even on early stages of ship design. Doesn't he have anyone he trusts to do that? Surely there has to be other things that only he can do that warrant his attention.
Kinda crazy that Chris is signing off even on early stages of ship design. Doesn't he have anyone he trusts to do that? Surely there has to be other things that only he can do that warrant his attention.
There have been rumblings from the beginning that he's really bad with micro-managing. That would account for a lot of delays in and of itself.
Comments
If SC was only one of those, sure, but it's literally trying to do two games at once, hence the team as it shows is very split between SQ42/SC expect on the stuff both games need and benefit from.
When they want that super duper fidelity landing zones and planets full if assets and their unique vibe, they literally need one army of artists and designers that they don't have, so we see that pipeline going quite slowly (likely prioritizing SQ42). Also engineering debt, it's noticeable the game needs so much tech pieces but they only work on so much at one time, constantly blocking progress on other areas.
I think the budget is clearly AAA, but the current development team size tackling SQ42 and SC at once, with the added need of building core tech to support the game, they should have more.
The traveling is mostly based on overseeing and company summits that fall upon on the heads of the company ofc.
I really hope this game releases because I really want to play it but seriously this is comical. Do companies have face to face meetings? Yes but most start up companies don't have this many studios spread around the world with no product to back it up.
More focused on waiting for the next major update than worrying and getting frustrated at release dates attm. The next major update is to hit the game this summer.
You still cant compare what CIG is doing to for example what Rockstar, Bioware, Bethesda, is doing/have done. My point of not releasing anything is the fact the only thing this company can seem to do is release fake ships for a game that is nothing more than a tech demo after being in development for how many years?
I'm not going to say anything more because I don't want to be that guy who is raining on other peoples game, I really do hope I'm wrong but it just seems to me there's mismanagement somewhere or we would have something more by now.
My fake ship is very much flyable on an alpha that I had and still have fun playing, even being just a fraction of what the game is meant to be. The game continues dev and releasing updates as the game progresses towards what is meant to be is what really matters for me.
I dare say a lot of people believed Chris when he said additional funds would allow them to produce the game faster, if there is any criticism to be levied it should be at CIG for not revising people's expectations.
Generally all they said was that some of the additional features would be coming after release whereas they should have been quite clear that all the added scope would severely increase the time to produce the game.
The "launch" will be easy. The alpha will become a beta which increasing numbers will be invited to stress test the game. And only when things are running will it be declared "live".
The alpha is out there. The basis of many supporters expectations. What many people have used for deciding whether SC has "a chance". It cuts through hype; cuts through negativity.
the thing is for so many people 'backing' this game. Their fantasy 2 million or whatever it is number no one plays the tech demo. They get SMALL spikes when they release (what they call) major updates, but I think theyre scared that when they do announce something the reception is going to be a joke.
This whole project is all about optics and what people see or perceive not what is actually happening.
Remember when GW2 and ESO and other actually popular franchises and releases had people all over the internet begging for invites and crying when they didnt get them?
So if SC and its 2 million (or whatever they claim) 'citizens' announces some 'special' closed testing (oh wait they already did that) and people dont get invited will their be tears?
Like I have said for the past couple years this is the game with the most hype, most money (allegedly) and most people waiting for it in history. Yet it has almost zero anticipation. If the meter doesnt tick up with 3.0 (and it probably wont if they deliver what I think theyre going to deliver) then I think people can stick a nail in this one. Despite the nonsense people want to sell about it.
90 days. TOPS! ;-)
(2.Okt 2015)
(one of eight similar tweets)
Have fun
It's not often I agree with you on anything. What I will agree on with you here is that SC is built on hype (and controversy). The biggest challenge facing ANY product is the hype curve. This is especially true with crowdfunded games. They need to create hype during their campaign, which will inevitably fall off afterwards. HOWEVER! They also need to re-create that hype at launch or, basically, nobody cares. Star Citizen is anomalous in that it continues to generate income on a monthly basis that can sustain a staff of developers that most companies couldn't afford. So, as of right now, SC is defying the hype curve and maintaining a high level of interest throughout it's development cycle. OR! At their plateau are they just making more money than most? It's tough to say.
Either way, people pointing at things like Twitch numbers or people actually playing a game that is in an incomplete state are silly. Personally, I haven't played it in nearly 6 months, and I probably won't until 3.0 launches. Why? I don't do wipes. I'm older now and my time is more valuable to me than ever. So I'm not going to waste time in a game that will inevitably wipe my progress at launch. I just did the same with Marvel Heroes Omega, played CBT for like 2 hours, have about 6 hours in already following launch of OBT.
I think that it will be more telling when it reaches open beta and is feature complete.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
"Procedural Generation R&D Team – This stretch goal will allocate funding for Cloud Imperium to develop procedural generation technology for future iterations of Star Citizen. Advanced procedural generation will be necessary for creating entire planets worth of exploration and development content. A special strike team of procedural generation-oriented developers will be assembled to make this technology a reality."
This stretch goal was for moving from 39 million to 40 million. So, Chris is saying that for only one million dollars, he can hire a "strike team" and add PG to the game.
I would also like to mention that in 2013 Chris specifically said that stretch goals would not delay the 2014 release of the game. How is that for ROFL?
You guys LOVE to brag about the numbers. How many 'citizens' there are, how much money they have raised (allegedly) all the (fake) movies they make claiming its in game footage (yet no one other than internal sources has 'played' it).
Sooner or later they have to shit or get off the pot.
Promises only get you so far. Although with this ones its been an extremely long trip.
If they release a load of crap and slap 3.0 on it and people still swallow it and throw money at them then those people deserve what they get when this thing folds up. because CiG has already taken full advantage of people with more money than brains so if they get away with putting out something else that doesnt get the game closer to release and STILL have people giving them money then you will never see anything. Because why bother releasing something(anything) when you can get rich and make a living by continuing to do what they do?
I wouldnt release a game either if I could live like a rockstar off the stupidity of others. And I have semi decent morals. But at some point you have to figure people get what they deserve and if its not you it would be someone else. I suspect thats how Roberts and co are justifying it to themselves at this point.
Also why I say if the numbers dont spike to something extreme with the release of 3.0 (no matter what it actually turns out to be). Then it 'should' be over. Even if its crap no one can know that and to know that they have to log in and try it. If they dont even log in then I dont know what else to say. Especially considering this has been the focus since the conventions last summer and its been nearly a year in the making and hyping..........
Lol, are you so interested in arguing that even when someone is agreeing with you, you feel the need to tell them that they're wrong? Do you understand that by doing so, you're effectively saying that you're also wrong? Lol, you're hilarious sometimes.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
There have been rumblings from the beginning that he's really bad with micro-managing. That would account for a lot of delays in and of itself.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------