I would say most are doing that. There just happens to be a metric ton of free to play games. Therefore the odds are some of them are fun.
If they don't find anything I would think most would do something else either look at the pay games or something completely different.
I do not see evidence that this is true honestly.
I think (at least game forum posters) have no idea what they find as fun or not they just follow the adds, simple as that.
Almost all the mmorpg are f2p... There isn't much subscription game left. And the buy to play games isn't so much different from the f2p since they have cash shop too.
I would say most are doing that. There just happens to be a metric ton of free to play games. Therefore the odds are some of them are fun.
If they don't find anything I would think most would do something else either look at the pay games or something completely different.
I do not see evidence that this is true honestly.
I think (at least game forum posters) have no idea what they find as fun or not they just follow the adds, simple as that.
Unless you do an appropriate study of some sort, it is hard to have true evidence of anything, yes, there are exceptions. Get a poll that doesn't have any bias to it (which it will if you post it on a game forum) and see what most people prefer.
I'll be honest, I agree you should just play what is fun, but humans are humans and will always have prejudice to one thing or another.
If I know an MMO game is F2P, then by default they have to have a funding mechanism. There are only a few options for funding mechanisms of F2P (Cash shop, loot boxes, Pay2win, ads)
If a game is a B2P or subscription, then by default they have a funding mechanism already but may or may not add other funding techniques (i.e. cash shop, Pay2win, etc) .
Also, psychologically, in the mind of a consumer, forking over any amount of money for something, even if it is 10 cents (plastic bags), will alter behavior.
In reference to myself, I'm adaptable, so F2P doesn't bother me, if a game is F2P it is more likely that I will try it as there's no money loss but I am already going to be watching out for their funding mechanisms. [Perfect example is PoE, 100% free, only cosmetic items in the cash shop].
If it is B2P or subscription based, I feel like there's less likely a chance it will have a lame funding mechanism and thus, I need to research it to see if it is worth the box price to try it.
Right now, i'm thinking of getting into Conan Exiles, but the $30 price prevented me from trying it already. If it was F2P, i'd try it and see if i could deal with their funding mechanism.
Also, SEANMCAD, remember, you are a sample size of one. Whatever you do doesn't beg any question on how it relates to others. You have only played 2 F2P games, thus everyone needs to ask why they can't find options. That doesn't even make sense.
I'm adaptable and I'm also a sample size of one, doesn't mean, it begs the question why others aren't. I find it funny sometimes how rigid people can get about things, but doesn't beg any question, people on a forum don't need to evaluate themselves.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I would say most are doing that. There just happens to be a metric ton of free to play games. Therefore the odds are some of them are fun.
If they don't find anything I would think most would do something else either look at the pay games or something completely different.
I do not see evidence that this is true honestly.
I think (at least game forum posters) have no idea what they find as fun or not they just follow the adds, simple as that.
Sample size
my 'sample size' is all gaming forums which is what I am saying. Of course I dont know for sure but looking at a game forums community that nearly never talks about the most important part of gaming of all suggests to me that they really just dont care.
my 'gut' tells me (that means my feeling not empirical) is that most game posters really dont know what they find fun. I very seriously believe they buy games just to say they have them (when cheap) and buy what they are advertised that they should like but really they havent the ability to distinguish one game from another when it comes to the question of fun even for themselves.
I do understand I could be wrong, but that is my hunch based on a huge lack of evidence that anyone wants to actually talk about game play.
is that a bit more clear yet?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Yes, it is clear. There are quite a few threads on gameplay though. One about what item system would you use, there's others talking about implementing (fictitious) religions in a game, best-in-slot things and such.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Yes, it is clear. There are quite a few threads on gameplay though. One about what item system would you use, there's others talking about implementing (fictitious) religions in a game, best-in-slot things and such.
Cryomatrix
which is why I orginally said 90% of posts are not.
I know they exist, they are not hyper rare but they are rare
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
And don't forget that we are also blessed with kickstarter and crowdfunding, so you can open up your wallet and throw your money at games BEFORE you even get a chance to try them out....and hell, you might not EVER get to try them out!
Isn't this new-fangled MMO market fantastic?
"We are all as God made us, and many of us much worse." - Don Quixote
And don't forget that we are also blessed with kickstarter and crowdfunding, so you can open up your wallet and throw your money at games BEFORE you even get a chance to try them out....and hell, you might not EVER get to try them out!
Isn't this new-fangled MMO market fantastic?
its been mind blowing to me. BUT given the radical success of crowdfunding and the games that come from them its a testimate (I think) to the number of people who were really tired of the same old boring game play for decades. In my opinion gaming has improved dramatically because of crowdfunding but not so much in the MMO market
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
everyone: Given that in the past 37 years of gaming I have played only one F2P game (well technically it could be 2). It begs the question, why are you playing F2P games, can you not find options?
Why not? I don't know about you. I like free fun.
Sure, there are other options too but they are not mutually exclusive, right? In fact, is there anything wrong with just playing games that I like, f2p or not?
Almost all the mmorpg are f2p... There isn't much subscription game left. And the buy to play games isn't so much different from the f2p since they have cash shop too.
Of course they are.
I try out f2p games without thinking (well, each gets no more than 15 min) but if a game costs $60, i will be a lot more careful and do some research on whether i am going to like it or not first.
everyone: Given that in the past 37 years of gaming I have played only one F2P game (well technically it could be 2). It begs the question, why are you playing F2P games, can you not find options?
Why not? I don't know about you. I like free fun.
Sure, there are other options too but they are not mutually exclusive, right? In fact, is there anything wrong with just playing games that I like, f2p or not?
I havent because the games I am attracted to for reasons not related to F2P happen to also not be F2P if that make sense.
I dont look for non-F2P games, its jut that the games I like happen to also not be F2P. So maybe I am playing games that people who are frustrated with their current library could be interested in? maybe?
that is what I was driving at, that I actually like my games...win for me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
that is what I was driving at, that I actually like my games...win for me
Isn't that pretty obvious and universal? Is anyone seriously playing games they do not like?
yes absolutely
"yes .. it is obvious and universal", or "yes, someone is seriously playing games he/she does not like"?
yes...many people play games they do not like.
These are people who very literally never..not once ever...write a single good word about the game they are playing but they say bad things every day repeately over and over again.
They might not be aware of it, but they do not like the game they are playing. They need to change the game they are playing
so yes..absolutely there are people who play games they do not like.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The answer to all this is staring you in the face. Play games that're not commercial, or otherwise are very small scale and not ambitious enough to rape your wallet.
Mainly stay way from commercial-striving games. Truly free MMO's will ask for donations and might have aesthetic rewards for donating, but there's a clear dividing line between a donation-based MMO and a cash shop MMO. The main thing to look for is whether the in-game rewards offer experience bonus or wealth. If there's a tangible reward or advantage for donating, it's a cash shop MMO.
This might mean staying away from AAA. It might mean less quality. But dammit people you have to make compromises.
And don't forget that we are also blessed with kickstarter and crowdfunding, so you can open up your wallet and throw your money at games BEFORE you even get a chance to try them out....and hell, you might not EVER get to try them out!
Isn't this new-fangled MMO market fantastic?
Not all of it's bad that way. Some is. Don't look only at the negative.
everyone: Given that in the past 37 years of gaming I have played only one F2P game (well technically it could be 2). It begs the question, why are you playing F2P games, can you not find options?
Why not? I don't know about you. I like free fun.
Sure, there are other options too but they are not mutually exclusive, right? In fact, is there anything wrong with just playing games that I like, f2p or not?
I havent because the games I am attracted to for reasons not related to F2P happen to also not be F2P if that make sense.
I dont look for non-F2P games, its jut that the games I like happen to also not be F2P. So maybe I am playing games that people who are frustrated with their current library could be interested in? maybe?
that is what I was driving at, that I actually like my games...win for me
So you only played Wow, Eve, or Final Fantasy for the past 10 years? Since that is the only subscription mmorpg left.
The answer to all this is staring you in the face. Play games that're not commercial, or otherwise are very small scale and not ambitious enough to rape your wallet.
Mainly stay way from commercial-striving games. Truly free MMO's will ask for donations and might have aesthetic rewards for donating, but there's a clear dividing line between a donation-based MMO and a cash shop MMO. The main thing to look for is whether the in-game rewards offer experience bonus or wealth. If there's a tangible reward or advantage for donating, it's a cash shop MMO.
This might mean staying away from AAA. It might mean less quality. But dammit people you have to make compromises.
I personally think you're on the money here.
MMO's require constant flow of money to be sustainable. But I think that having a cash shop - as in buying benefits in-game, with money - in the end will kill the game.
How many of you want to play an P2W game? I'm guessing not many.
But I also believe that people will support a game they actually like, and frankly, a cash-shop is the best way to do it. What's sold in the cash-shop is what matters. And saddly, there are very few games that do it right.
Cosmetic items are fine. But people also talk about this korean MMO that apparently only sold this "money-bomb" item - players could buy it, and once opened the bomb would spill out items and gold. But the catch is - the player who opened it couldn't pick up any of it.
Apparently the item was very popular. When the item was utilized it created a good atmosphere, and the player who bought the item got attention and respect from the surrounding people.
I think this is a great example of how to do it right. And I believe that in the long-run it would be much more beneficial, and respectful for any F2P MMO to do it this way, instead of smothering their own game to death with a bunch of whales.
Practice restraint, and avoid games that want to rape your wallet. That is key.
The women is the true raper of a man's wallet.
It would be grammatically correct to way 'woman' not 'women'. This indicates to me English may not be your first language.
I ask you to use Google Translate before posting in the future, but I don't think they have a Cro-Magnon to English option yet.
"correct to way" === you mean === "correct way"
Actually the issue isn't grammar, it is however a typo. When not thinking and you type women or woman, they sound the same, so it was likely akin to attempting to type 'there' and instead wrote 'their'.
English is silly in its rules of pronunciation.
These can all be said exactly the same and spelled completely different: Force/phorce Fource/Phource (as in source) Foarse/Phoarse (as in coarse) Forse/phorse (as in norse) Fourse/Phourse (as in course)
Woman and women sound the same but one denotes singular and the other plural. That is silly.
And English is my first language. I'm bilingual however.
Cryomatrix
p.s. I was joking with the "woman is the true raper of man's wallets"
English pronunciation isn't the issue. The issue is the orthography. Modern English is still - largely - using pre-Great Vowel Shift, Middle English orthography. The Vowel Shift changed the placement of most vowels in the English Language (Chain-Shift), so pronunciation stopped corresponding to their spellings. Additionally, English employs heavy vowel reduction, which is very "variable" in nature. So, when we speak, we shorten and reduce vowels in unstressed syllables. The language is stress-timed. This means that no orthography can truly correspond 1:1 with English pronunciation, due to this reduction and the variable nature of it in the spoken language.
Additionally, English changed from an Alveolar Trill [fricative] rhotic to a Retroflex Approximant rhotic. This completely changed the pronunciation of words with tr/dr clusters (not separated at syllable boundaries). Tree, Dream, Cadre (English pronunciation), Transform, Daedre (English pronunciation), String, etc.
Most languages would "correct" this with spelling reforms, but this hasn't happened in English.
The pronunciations themselves are not the problem. Every language has its own phonemic inventory, and English is vowel heavy with a lot of diphthongs and weird digraphs. It's completely normal, and easy... for Anglophones...
A language like Spanish, for example, has a regular orthography... Only 5 Vowels, a completely different rhotic, is syllable timed, has no vowel reduction, has mostly regular stress placement, and has very few diphthongs. Consonants are clustered differently, the phonotactic rules are different.
Many Anglophones quit learning Russian at Здравствуйте (Zdravstvuyte), because the word is a phonotactic nightmare for Anglophones.
However, within the system of Russian Phonotactics, Stress Placement, Vowel Reduction, Phonology, etc. It's perfectly normal.
Woman and Women never sound alike. The /a/ in Woman is often reduced to schwa (as in of). The /e/ in women is often reduced to short /i/ (as in "kick").
Course, Coarse, and Source all have the same vowel - /oʊ/ diphthong. It may be /ɔ/ for some speakers - particularly those who speak non-rhotic dialects.
The vowel in Norse is /ɔ/. People who pronounce it with /oʊ/ are simply mispronouncing the word.
Your grammar error was a grammar error caused by a typo. You can't split infinities with anything but a modifier - usually an adverb (though there can be than one of them); and splitting infinities is bad form, anyways (though the new age of terrible internet writers is trying to change that :-P ).
"Raper" is an American colloquialism that sounds like something a 2 year old would say when he's acquiring vocabulary. I have never heard an adult use this word, ever.
/nerd
You can rape my wallet any time.
/nerdlover
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
everyone: Given that in the past 37 years of gaming I have played only one F2P game (well technically it could be 2). It begs the question, why are you playing F2P games, can you not find options?
Why not? I don't know about you. I like free fun.
Sure, there are other options too but they are not mutually exclusive, right? In fact, is there anything wrong with just playing games that I like, f2p or not?
I havent because the games I am attracted to for reasons not related to F2P happen to also not be F2P if that make sense.
I dont look for non-F2P games, its jut that the games I like happen to also not be F2P. So maybe I am playing games that people who are frustrated with their current library could be interested in? maybe?
that is what I was driving at, that I actually like my games...win for me
So you only played Wow, Eve, or Final Fantasy for the past 10 years? Since that is the only subscription mmorpg left.
There are also hybrids that have subscription models that technically are F2P but in reality in order to truly play the game you need to be subbed, one such example is SW:TOR, but its not the only one, BDO also has a 'subscription' option in the 30 day VIP packs, to say that they greatly benefit the player would be an understatement, playing the game without one is just not as good. The best games out there tend to have these kinds of options, P2P is not going away at all, its just 'evolved' though i don't see all P2P games switching over, though i was surprised when Eve Online allowed 'alpha clones' although the limitations in place do mean that any player who starts as an alpha, will eventually have to upgrade to omega clone if they want to progress in the game beyond a certain point, take level 4 missions, now you can fly Battleships on an alpha clone, but while you can do level 4 missions in a battleship, they aren't easy, i've done them in ravens, typhoons, abad'daba'dons, and while they are fun, they can be challenging even with level V skills, warping away when it gets too hot is not uncommon and if you were limited to only level III skills it would be bordering on suicidal, at least if you were solo. Even games like Archeage promote subscription options after all because it represents a 'steady' income. In the case of most MMO's that are hybrids where it is F2P with a subscription option, the F2P is more of a unlimited free trial with gameplay restrictions, sure you can play it that way forever if you so wish, but subscription players have fewer restrictions and they have an overall improved gameplay experience, the games are often designed with that in mind after all.
everyone: Given that in the past 37 years of gaming I have played only one F2P game (well technically it could be 2). It begs the question, why are you playing F2P games, can you not find options?
Why not? I don't know about you. I like free fun.
Sure, there are other options too but they are not mutually exclusive, right? In fact, is there anything wrong with just playing games that I like, f2p or not?
I havent because the games I am attracted to for reasons not related to F2P happen to also not be F2P if that make sense.
I dont look for non-F2P games, its jut that the games I like happen to also not be F2P. So maybe I am playing games that people who are frustrated with their current library could be interested in? maybe?
that is what I was driving at, that I actually like my games...win for me
So you only played Wow, Eve, or Final Fantasy for the past 10 years? Since that is the only subscription mmorpg left.
I thought you were interested in games without a cash shop though?
everyone: Given that in the past 37 years of gaming I have played only one F2P game (well technically it could be 2). It begs the question, why are you playing F2P games, can you not find options?
Why not? I don't know about you. I like free fun.
Sure, there are other options too but they are not mutually exclusive, right? In fact, is there anything wrong with just playing games that I like, f2p or not?
I havent because the games I am attracted to for reasons not related to F2P happen to also not be F2P if that make sense.
I dont look for non-F2P games, its jut that the games I like happen to also not be F2P. So maybe I am playing games that people who are frustrated with their current library could be interested in? maybe?
that is what I was driving at, that I actually like my games...win for me
So you only played Wow, Eve, or Final Fantasy for the past 10 years? Since that is the only subscription mmorpg left.
I thought you were interested in games without a cash shop though?
Cash shops are not all the same however, some are really intrusive and do far more than just sell cosmetic items, some indulge in far more egregious sales tactics that are truly reprehensible.
Comments
I think (at least game forum posters) have no idea what they find as fun or not they just follow the adds, simple as that.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Unless you do an appropriate study of some sort, it is hard to have true evidence of anything, yes, there are exceptions. Get a poll that doesn't have any bias to it (which it will if you post it on a game forum) and see what most people prefer.
I'll be honest, I agree you should just play what is fun, but humans are humans and will always have prejudice to one thing or another.
If I know an MMO game is F2P, then by default they have to have a funding mechanism. There are only a few options for funding mechanisms of F2P (Cash shop, loot boxes, Pay2win, ads)
If a game is a B2P or subscription, then by default they have a funding mechanism already but may or may not add other funding techniques (i.e. cash shop, Pay2win, etc) .
Also, psychologically, in the mind of a consumer, forking over any amount of money for something, even if it is 10 cents (plastic bags), will alter behavior.
In reference to myself, I'm adaptable, so F2P doesn't bother me, if a game is F2P it is more likely that I will try it as there's no money loss but I am already going to be watching out for their funding mechanisms. [Perfect example is PoE, 100% free, only cosmetic items in the cash shop].
If it is B2P or subscription based, I feel like there's less likely a chance it will have a lame funding mechanism and thus, I need to research it to see if it is worth the box price to try it.
Right now, i'm thinking of getting into Conan Exiles, but the $30 price prevented me from trying it already. If it was F2P, i'd try it and see if i could deal with their funding mechanism.
Also, SEANMCAD, remember, you are a sample size of one. Whatever you do doesn't beg any question on how it relates to others. You have only played 2 F2P games, thus everyone needs to ask why they can't find options. That doesn't even make sense.
I'm adaptable and I'm also a sample size of one, doesn't mean, it begs the question why others aren't. I find it funny sometimes how rigid people can get about things, but doesn't beg any question, people on a forum don't need to evaluate themselves.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
my 'gut' tells me (that means my feeling not empirical) is that most game posters really dont know what they find fun. I very seriously believe they buy games just to say they have them (when cheap) and buy what they are advertised that they should like but really they havent the ability to distinguish one game from another when it comes to the question of fun even for themselves.
I do understand I could be wrong, but that is my hunch based on a huge lack of evidence that anyone wants to actually talk about game play.
is that a bit more clear yet?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I know they exist, they are not hyper rare but they are rare
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Isn't this new-fangled MMO market fantastic?
In my opinion gaming has improved dramatically because of crowdfunding but not so much in the MMO market
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Why not? I don't know about you. I like free fun.
Sure, there are other options too but they are not mutually exclusive, right? In fact, is there anything wrong with just playing games that I like, f2p or not?
I try out f2p games without thinking (well, each gets no more than 15 min) but if a game costs $60, i will be a lot more careful and do some research on whether i am going to like it or not first.
I dont look for non-F2P games, its jut that the games I like happen to also not be F2P.
So maybe I am playing games that people who are frustrated with their current library could be interested in? maybe?
that is what I was driving at, that I actually like my games...win for me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
These are people who very literally never..not once ever...write a single good word about the game they are playing but they say bad things every day repeately over and over again.
They might not be aware of it, but they do not like the game they are playing. They need to change the game they are playing
so yes..absolutely there are people who play games they do not like.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I am glad I am not one of those.
Mainly stay way from commercial-striving games. Truly free MMO's will ask for donations and might have aesthetic rewards for donating, but there's a clear dividing line between a donation-based MMO and a cash shop MMO. The main thing to look for is whether the in-game rewards offer experience bonus or wealth. If there's a tangible reward or advantage for donating, it's a cash shop MMO.
This might mean staying away from AAA. It might mean less quality. But dammit people you have to make compromises.
MMO's require constant flow of money to be sustainable. But I think that having a cash shop - as in buying benefits in-game, with money - in the end will kill the game.
How many of you want to play an P2W game? I'm guessing not many.
But I also believe that people will support a game they actually like, and frankly, a cash-shop is the best way to do it.
What's sold in the cash-shop is what matters. And saddly, there are very few games that do it right.
Cosmetic items are fine.
But people also talk about this korean MMO that apparently only sold this "money-bomb" item - players could buy it, and once opened the bomb would spill out items and gold.
But the catch is - the player who opened it couldn't pick up any of it.
Apparently the item was very popular. When the item was utilized it created a good atmosphere, and the player who bought the item got attention and respect from the surrounding people.
I think this is a great example of how to do it right. And I believe that in the long-run it would be much more beneficial, and respectful for any F2P MMO to do it this way, instead of smothering their own game to death with a bunch of whales.
/nerdlover