CoE announces plan to commoditize and sell many perks individually, gets hit in face with backlash.

Slapshot1188

My thoughts first:  Not a shock.  As I said repeatedly these guys need to find a lot of new revenue to keep going.   This is only the tip of the iceberg.  Most of the stuff seems like fluff although some of it is clearly P2W.  I think what rankles most folks is that now they are outright selling testing access as an individual line item.  No more hiding behind the whole "donation" scheme.  Then that gets coupled with the fact that some folks feel manipulated into buying higher packages specifically to get certain regards like testing access.    I'd suggest that the best way to approach this is for CoE to allow early backers the chance to refund and downgrade into the newly offered items.

The quotes below are from folks that have spent hundreds if not thousands on the game.  These are not random trolls.

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Coming soon to our online store, you will finally be able to purchase a variety of individual rewards to customize your game experience! Not every package reward will be available but we're excited to provide more options for our fans, whether you backed us at the start or are just learning about the game now. We know you're curious about just exactly what will be on the menu, so here's the list.

Character Rewards

• A backpack
• A wagon
• A collection of trail rations
• A set of merchant scales
• A detailed map of your home county
• A detailed map of your home duchy
• A map of an historical, possibly unexplored location
• Random treasure maps
• Your choice from 1-of-5 different in-game pets to call your own
• A pack mule to ride and haul your gear
• A Horse and saddlebags
• A purebread horse for breeding or travelling
• An Ursaphant mount
• An armored War Trison
• Custom Surname
• Configure a Coat of Arms for your family
• Gain access to expanded colors
• Gain access to expanded sigils
• Gain access to expanded crests

Account Rewards

• Access to Beta 2
• Access to Beta 1
• Access to Alpha 2
• Access to Alpha 1 and the Early Access forum

Bonus Rewards

• CoE Soundtrack (download)
• Art book (PDF)
• Strategy guide (PDF)
• Town guide (PDF)
• Name a star or constellation in Elyria
• Name an historical location
• Provide a name for a headstone to be found in an in-game graveyard

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REACTION:

Personally, not a fan of the changes. Had I known this would later be an option. I would have waited and created my own package.

I still would have spent the same amount of money, but would have been even happier with what I was getting out of it.

So frustrating to me personally....

Awesome. Everyone who bought a package for one or a few specific rewards just got screwed over.


Do you guys put any forethought into things like this? How many people (not myself) spent many hundreds more buying tiers they did not want just to get one or two small "fluff" items or features? I keep trying to get back the massive hype I had and keep getting kicked down with crap like this.


I could have sworn I heard SBS repeatedly say "we won't ever offer alpha/beta access separately" in the past. Either my memory is faulty, or the level of trust just dropped.


I am disappointed that Alpha Access will be purchasable without having backed at an appropriate level. That was the driving force in my upgrade decisions.

The negative responses from the community should have been easily predicted about this.

That is all great for getting new backers, but what about your existing customers...

Posts like this one make me regret pledging so early... another kick in the balls from devs! But I guess they will learn only when making mistakes.

This is not good at all, I upgraded to a higher package to get the Alpha 1, now someone can just go buy that addon? .......


I appreciate your information on this but I also purchased a package to get an earlier start on the game not necessarily for some of the other things I really could care less about. I do feel like those of us who got in earlier should have something to show for it. 

Increasing pricing without so much as a playable demo? Not even remotely close to releasing COE.

You knew it was coming, but you didn't know when...until now! My funding for this project is decreasing to ZERO.

How them apples?

Folks SBS is a business they have and will continue to make decisions that make business sense to them. Not to us. I have a problem with the ala cart system like many of you however it’s not our call.

Ouch, I don't want to be here when the firestorm breaks if they implement that idea. That just sounds too much like money grabbing. 

Personally, this whole idea of "a la carte" perks is just money grabbing for me. I do understand that they need funds. But honestly what happened to the whole idea of looking for investors? If they selling "a la carte" items now, what is stopping them from selling boosts during the release of the game? so many things make me doubtful in this game...

"what is stopping them from selling boosts during the release of the game?"

That's definitely a valid concern and something I hope they don't do

Well, this certainly is a rough thread...

The best part of the changes is watching all the people come out to cry about the changes...

First, it feels (to me) like SBS is going against something they had clearly stated in the past. This makes me less sure about trusting anything else they have or will say.

Second, it makes me concerned that the outside funding is not coming through as expected.

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So what are your thoughts?  Pro? Con?  Post them below!

Kyleran

When someone claims to be developing the most amazing MMORPG ever but can't confirm where the necessary funding will come from people should beware. 

Which is pretty much all of these MMORPG kick starter efforts I realize.

Slapshot1188

DMKano said:

One important thing to remember:

Things stated by devs or company representatives during development are subject to change at any time.

Were there any legally binding agreements signed by the devs stating that they will never change things they said?

If no - then the backers need to understand that while its a shitty thing to do, devs didnt break any laws here.

And bottom line - never assume that money doesnt trump all, as in the end no matter what devs intend and say, the reality of money is what speaks the loudest.

All true... but remember that the whole crowdfunding concept is based on trust...

Asm0deus

Color me unsurprised!

Octagon7711

DMKano said:

One important thing to remember:

Things stated by devs or company representatives during development are subject to change at any time.

Were there any legally binding agreements signed by the devs stating that they will never change things they said?

If no - then the backers need to understand that while its a shitty thing to do, devs didnt break any laws here.

And bottom line - never assume that money doesnt trump all, as in the end no matter what devs intend and say, the reality of money is what speaks the loudest.

You're trusting a stranger with your money. You're hoping they are good with money management.

alkarionlog

maybe now players will learn to stop tossing money on promisses and start to see the real thing before spending, yeah I know wishfull thinking

MadFrenchie

Whether they created a legally-binding document or not, they consciously decided to go the crowdfunding route.  As Slapshot mentioned, that's centered around building trust in your funders.

As much as funders should recognize things change, developers deserve the backlash they get when they do.  It's all part of conscious choice by both sides.

k61977

People please keep giving money to buy into early access, kickstarters, ect...gives me something to read about when the shit hits the fan when the devs fail or change things.  Just thinking about it made me want to go get some popcorn ready.

SpottyGekko

Octagon7711 said:

DMKano said:

One important thing to remember:

Things stated by devs or company representatives during development are subject to change at any time.

Were there any legally binding agreements signed by the devs stating that they will never change things they said?

If no - then the backers need to understand that while its a shitty thing to do, devs didnt break any laws here.

And bottom line - never assume that money doesnt trump all, as in the end no matter what devs intend and say, the reality of money is what speaks the loudest.

You're trusting a stranger with your money. You're hoping they are good with money management.

You're trusting a complete stranger with your money, because you "believe" their promises.

The most compelling driver of that belief is your desire to see them succeed, the actual viability of what they're promising comes a distant second...

Rusque

I still can't believe people gave them money, and then had the audacity to white knight them in defense.

"That and so, so much more more. Game is scheduled for full release December 2017, with Alpha and Beta stages in the interim."

lol.

Slapshot1188

DMKano said:

Slapshot1188 said:

DMKano said:

One important thing to remember:

Things stated by devs or company representatives during development are subject to change at any time.

Were there any legally binding agreements signed by the devs stating that they will never change things they said?

If no - then the backers need to understand that while its a shitty thing to do, devs didnt break any laws here.

And bottom line - never assume that money doesnt trump all, as in the end no matter what devs intend and say, the reality of money is what speaks the loudest.

All true... but remember that the whole crowdfunding concept is based on trust...

Nothing more foolish than putting your trust in a group of people who are selling a product.

People are forgetting the basic rule of crowdfunding - zero guarantees, you are donating your money.

Again... all true... but I think this would have gone down better with a different type of communication.  People are generally tolerant of all kinds of shit if they feel you are being open and honest.  

Azaron_Nightblade

alkarionlog said:

maybe now players will learn to stop tossing money on promisses and start to see the real thing before spending, yeah I know wishfull thinking

Yep. Never gonna happen.

Slapshot1188

Azaron_Nightblade said:

alkarionlog said:

maybe now players will learn to stop tossing money on promisses and start to see the real thing before spending, yeah I know wishfull thinking

Yep. Never gonna happen.

Maybe... probably.  Then again you never know.  Sometimes there will be a situation so egregious that it changes everything.  

The public can be a fickle lover.

Shaigh

Slapshot1188 said:

Azaron_Nightblade said:

alkarionlog said:

maybe now players will learn to stop tossing money on promisses and start to see the real thing before spending, yeah I know wishfull thinking

Yep. Never gonna happen.

Maybe... probably.  Then again you never know.  Sometimes there will be a situation so egregious that it changes everything.  

The public can be a fickle lover.

I read Charles Mackay's "Extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds" and the overall theme of the book is as relevant today as they were back when they originally happened. Individual people can learn from mistakes but crowds usually don't. There will always be people ready to defend it while it happens because they will ignore signs.

With CoE its not really that hard, they promised things that we know takes far more money and time than they said it would do. It happens all the time with kickstarter MMO's and people will jump out defending them at all costs.

Wellspring

Are these items bought through the IP store? If so, I don't see what has changed. Wasn't the IP store always intended to populate the world during the exposition, and then the cash shop would go away forever?

Slapshot1188

Wellspring said:

Are these items bought through the IP store? If so, I don't see what has changed. Wasn't the IP store always intended to populate the world during the exposition, and then the cash shop would go away forever?

No they are bought for straight cash.  Just like the $10 village tokens and Guild token you can buy to give your settlement and/or guild an advantage in game.

Guild Token:  When you give a token, you are contributing to the organization of the person you give it to.

The more tokens your leader receives, the greater the organization becomes. Each token increases research points or resources, depending on the organization type. At certain thresholds, tokens will create special Organization Upgrades that your Leader can use to create guild halls, get additional resources, and more!

Tiamat64

Hopefully some people will learn some valuable lessons from this.  Those could be worth every penny.

ciely

i was already thinking of finding a excuse to drop this game, good going company! 

Mikeha

Just like all the others. 

flizzer

I'm waiting for a game to sell a lag free item in the cash shop.   Are you experiencing lag?   Combat feel slow?  No problem!   Buy the 100 % lag free trait in the cash shop. 

beebop500

I can't help but find it funny, that so many in the MMO community decry P2P games, especially subscription games, as evil or too expensive or dying or what have you.  Equally funny is how this whole "F2P or bust!" attitude has generated countless terrible games that are little more than cash grabs. 

If kickstarter and crowdfunding and F2P really are the wave of the future, I count myself blessed that I enjoy single-player games so much because I doubt there will be any decent MMOs left.

Slapshot1188

beebop500 said:

I can't help but find it funny, that so many in the MMO community decry P2P games, especially subscription games, as evil or too expensive or dying or what have you.  Equally funny is how this whole "F2P or bust!" attitude has generated countless terrible games that are little more than cash grabs. 

If kickstarter and crowdfunding and F2P really are the wave of the future, I count myself blessed that I enjoy single-player games so much because I doubt there will be any decent MMOs left.

I love P2P games.

I despise P2W games

JeromyWalsh

Hey All,

I don't tend to frequent MMORPG.com as much any more, but I saw this post and I was again disgusted to see people still trying to tear down the hard work my team does, the progress we've made, and the close connection we have with our community.

The entire premise of this post is misleading, which was clearly the intention from the beginning.

The title of this topic is: "CoE announces plan to commoditize and sell many perks individually, gets hit in face with backlash"

However, there has been no backlash. We were asked to make the change. Have there been a few people who complained on our forum about the change? Of course. And I believe the OP quoted every one of them.

What they intentionally didn't quote are the following:

"Great update, Vye. Now's the time to fill your boots, people "

""Finally a Surname "

"God bless Vie. Lol about time"

"That's super exciting! I can't wait to see what the prices are for some of the a la carte items!"

In short, the post in question is 6 pages long, and there's a mix of both extremely happy people, and some unhappy. But, you'll notice that the topic itself has a post score of +16. Meaning, at the very least 16 more people felt the need to upvote than downvote.

A couple days later we posted the prices for the a la carte, which has received +41 upvotes.

"Beautiful update thank you for giving us what we asked! The thing about donating to the International Association for Suicide Prevention is a wonderful idea. Thank you Soulbound"

"Awsome! Thank you.Caspian!"

""For every purchase of the "Headstone Name & Message" a la carte item, Soulbound Studios will donate $25 (50%) to the International Association for Suicide Prevention."

Amazing! Never expected you guys to do this, just incredible."

In short, we made the change because a ton of people asked to provide those things a la carte in a way that meant people who purchased the packages got a huge discount, while others who didn't want to spend so much still got what they wanted.

All that aside, the company is making huge progress, the game is coming along nicely, and our Alpha 1 backers will be getting into the game using the VoxElyria client as early as January.

In case you're not actively following our development, here's the latest developer journal:

Check out all These Character Skins

And if you want to see the video that accompanies many of the screenshots in that post, check out our latest production video:

Pre-Alpha Progress Update

In closing, don't believe everything you read on these forums. We've got 1,500 members in our Discord channel, actively engaging with us on a daily basis. So you can either read the trashy forum posts here, or you can come into our Discord or join our forums and talk directly to us.

We really aren't like everyone else. No matter what the MMORPG.com forums lead you to believe.

Redemp

This is why I don't crowd fund mmo's  even those I'm highly hyped for .... CoE from the get go has looked suspect; Caveat emptor.

YashaX

Slapshot1188 said:

Wellspring said:

Are these items bought through the IP store? If so, I don't see what has changed. Wasn't the IP store always intended to populate the world during the exposition, and then the cash shop would go away forever?

No they are bought for straight cash.  Just like the $10 village tokens and Guild token you can buy to give your settlement and/or guild an advantage in game.

Guild Token:  When you give a token, you are contributing to the organization of the person you give it to.

The more tokens your leader receives, the greater the organization becomes. Each token increases research points or resources, depending on the organization type. At certain thresholds, tokens will create special Organization Upgrades that your Leader can use to create guild halls, get additional resources, and more!

That is one of the most extraordinary things I have read on these forums, the gall of these crowdfunding projects continues to surprise.

Slapshot1188

Redemp said:

This is why I don't crowd fund mmo's  even those I'm highly hyped for .... CoE from the get go has looked suspect; Caveat emptor.

Of course.  IMHO it's a horrible shame they way companies like this have perverted the idea of Kickstarter. I mean, they are even now about to start selling tokens for $10 that you give to someone to "vote" for them to become one of the Kings. Always finding new ways to sell advantages...

PS- Jeremy... many of the quotes in the OP were from people who pledged hundreds or thousands of dollars to your game.  Yeah your highly moderated forum resulted in a +16... should we slowly golfclap? When people who have given you hundreds or thousands of dollars for your game are complaining publically (ignoring both of your paywall locked high roller forums where IMHO you try to keep dissent from public eyes) feel free to pat yourself on the back all you want.  

Keep adding monetization features. Keep announcing DLC for your unreleased game.  Keep renaming features like the mud.  Keep missing deadlines and blaming your supporters for making you spend time explaining things to them.  

The problem isn't the MMORPG forums. 

The problem is that your game was supposed to be in 3 month no wipe Headstart now and full release by the end of the year.  Instead you have released nothing excepts more and more monetization items.  Maybe by January (per your post) people will have a client to move their minecraft figures around.  If... instead of blaming everyone else... you actually did what you said and had launched your game's Exposition by now.. there wouldn't be a need to blame anyone.  But since you're  now saying you will be 2 years late.  That's on you.   Suck it up, stop deflecting, do what you promise and guess what.  All the complaints go away.