SedrynTyros said: I'm not sure why you'd think you can predict the future now given how terribly wrong you've been up to this point.
"We" were not wrong, that is what Blizzard said at that time.
Exactly. Blizz said themselves, time and time again for many years, that they either had no plans for making classic servers, or that it would be too much of a technical obstacle. It was brought up and shot down so many times that a special "Wall of No" post was made and frequently updated and posted on the WoW forums, with a list of quotes and citations where Blizz employees said it wouldn't happen https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/8198732508#19 Technically, "we" have been right "up to this point". It's only in the last few days that their stance changed.
Yet here we are with all those technical limitations, you think you do but you don't, will not be profitable, wall of no, etc, etc bullshit blown completely out of the water with the announcement that they will be doing classic servers.
I am talking about masses not those 50k players from private servers.
The psychology and philosphy of people thinking one thing but once getting it realizing that didnt make them happy is well known and documented.
Slavoj Zizek perfectly explains this problem
Um, this guy sounds like a piece of work.
I do create things and "no" I don't have a period where I want to suffer, I get euphoric. It's why I get on 6+ hour creative binges.
I think what is closer to the truth is that people don't know what they want or don't realize that accepting something else might actually be better for them.
Just because someone in a video says something doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Also, his example is with a wife and a mistress. I think there's a lot more going on there then lose the wife you lose the mistress.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
As long as Blizzard don't screw up and try to make it like current Wow but with vanillas setting I think they will do very well here.
I am concerned that this what they will do.
No dungeon finder please. It is that kind of thing that takes away from playing in the world imo.
Yeah, me too. If they do I think the project will fail though and I am not sure Blizzard is that stupid.
The dungeonfinder will be added since so many players like it, I am rather sure of that. Personally I don't care, I don't use it myself in any way and vanilla Wows dungeons were rather different then current Wows dungeons, they offered a far more time sonsuming and harder content then the open world.
So I don't think most players will just sit around in a town and wait for the next dungeon even if that is how the dungeonfinder work. Hopefully though will you still actually have to go to the dungeon before doing it if they want to be true to the original game while still make it easier to find a group in any case.
If you remember did most of us mainly run dungeons at weekends in the older days, while it was even more so in EQ it was even true for early Wow. Dungeons were time consuming but fun, if you just had an hour to play you spent it in the open world.
But part of the bit that was good about vanilla wow that has been ruined is the dumbing down additions (aka, QoL changes) like dungeon finders. Other things like hunter pet normalization and ammo changes.
The whole players like it bit isn't good enough. I liked having to make poisons for my rogue and it was one part of what made it feel like playing a character in a world. If the lesson they learn is old content with the new game play features, then they failed to understand.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
SedrynTyros said: I'm not sure why you'd think you can predict the future now given how terribly wrong you've been up to this point.
"We" were not wrong, that is what Blizzard said at that time.
Exactly. Blizz said themselves, time and time again for many years, that they either had no plans for making classic servers, or that it would be too much of a technical obstacle. It was brought up and shot down so many times that a special "Wall of No" post was made and frequently updated and posted on the WoW forums, with a list of quotes and citations where Blizz employees said it wouldn't happen https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/8198732508#19 Technically, "we" have been right "up to this point". It's only in the last few days that their stance changed.
Yet here we are with all those technical limitations, you think you do but you don't, will not be profitable, wall of no, etc, etc bullshit blown completely out of the water with the announcement that they will be doing classic servers.
Yeah, 5 years later...
If all of that BS was true they would not have done it at all. It wasn't, they did.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
SedrynTyros said: I'm not sure why you'd think you can predict the future now given how terribly wrong you've been up to this point.
"We" were not wrong, that is what Blizzard said at that time.
Exactly. Blizz said themselves, time and time again for many years, that they either had no plans for making classic servers, or that it would be too much of a technical obstacle. It was brought up and shot down so many times that a special "Wall of No" post was made and frequently updated and posted on the WoW forums, with a list of quotes and citations where Blizz employees said it wouldn't happen https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/8198732508#19 Technically, "we" have been right "up to this point". It's only in the last few days that their stance changed.
Technically, it's too early to say who is right and who is wrong. Remember that Classic could be a complete failure and nobody comes back to WoW to play it, which would support Blizzard's previous stance. People say that they want vanilla servers, but do they want subscription vanilla servers which are controlled by Blizzard? My guess is no.
I am talking about masses not those 50k players from private servers.
The psychology and philosphy of people thinking one thing but once getting it realizing that didnt make them happy is well known and documented.
Slavoj Zizek perfectly explains this problem
Um, this guy sounds like a piece of work.
I do create things and "no" I don't have a period where I want to suffer, I get euphoric. It's why I get on 6+ hour creative binges.
I think what is closer to the truth is that people don't know what they want or don't realize that accepting something else might actually be better for them.
Just because someone in a video says something doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Also, his example is with a wife and a mistress. I think there's a lot more going on there then lose the wife you lose the mistress.
That and classic WoW was never a mistress, she was the love of my life I never felt the need to cheat on.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
But part of the bit that was good about vanilla wow that has been ruined is the dumbing down additions (aka, QoL changes) like dungeon finders. Other things like hunter pet normalization and ammo changes.
The whole players like it bit isn't good enough. I liked having to make poisons for my rogue and it was one part of what made it feel like playing a character in a world. If the lesson they learn is old content with the new game play features, then they failed to understand.
I understand what you are saying but I just don'st see Blizz releasing it without that function. Hopefully will it just a be a simple LFG tools instead of a cross server teleporting thing but some kind of dungeonfinder will be there, 100% sure of that.
Poisons, ammo and simlar could very well be done like they should, heck, I certainly hope so and that is actually rather likely they leave the old way there.
SedrynTyros said: I'm not sure why you'd think you can predict the future now given how terribly wrong you've been up to this point.
"We" were not wrong, that is what Blizzard said at that time.
Exactly. Blizz said themselves, time and time again for many years, that they either had no plans for making classic servers, or that it would be too much of a technical obstacle. It was brought up and shot down so many times that a special "Wall of No" post was made and frequently updated and posted on the WoW forums, with a list of quotes and citations where Blizz employees said it wouldn't happen https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/8198732508#19 Technically, "we" have been right "up to this point". It's only in the last few days that their stance changed.
Yet here we are with all those technical limitations, you think you do but you don't, will not be profitable, wall of no, etc, etc bullshit blown completely out of the water with the announcement that they will be doing classic servers.
Yeah, 5 years later...
If all of that BS was true they would not have done it at all. It wasn't, they did.
This has been an ongoing internal debate. I'm sure that this has happened off and on throughout the years, right? But last year this reached a fever pitch, and we really had a lot of internal discussions because we want to make sure that we provide a great experience for our players. And I think our concern was gonna be our ability to execute Blizzard quality going back so many years. You don't want to ruin the experience. It has to be an authentic experience. But by the same token, people don't want some of the funky bugs that we had back then.
I understand what you are saying but I just don'st see Blizz releasing it without that function. Hopefully will it just a be a simple LFG tools instead of a cross server teleporting thing but some kind of dungeonfinder will be there, 100% sure of that.
Poisons, ammo and simlar could very well be done like they should, heck, I certainly hope so and that is actually rather likely they leave the old way there.
Give me a break. Nobody is 100% sure of anything. It's all speculation until we see it go live.
"Brack is clear that using modern server architecture doesn’t mean that these Classic servers will have the same features that current World of Warcraft does. There won’t be cross-realm servers or Looking For Raid and Dungeon Finder automatic party matchmaking. There’s still a lot of questions about how the team will tackle it, but Brack says they’re committed to recreating an authentic Vanilla World of Warcraft experience. "One of the tenets of Classic WoW is none of the cross-server realms and different [server] sharding options that we have available to us today. There’s a lot of desire on part of the community that this is something that they don’t want."
" If millions of people show up and play for years, that’s awesome. And if just tens of people show up and play for years, we’re fine either way. What’s important to us is that we have this Classic experience people can enjoy, that people do have the opportunity to go back to."
SedrynTyros said: I'm not sure why you'd think you can predict the future now given how terribly wrong you've been up to this point.
"We" were not wrong, that is what Blizzard said at that time.
Exactly. Blizz said themselves, time and time again for many years, that they either had no plans for making classic servers, or that it would be too much of a technical obstacle. It was brought up and shot down so many times that a special "Wall of No" post was made and frequently updated and posted on the WoW forums, with a list of quotes and citations where Blizz employees said it wouldn't happen https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/8198732508#19 Technically, "we" have been right "up to this point". It's only in the last few days that their stance changed.
Yet here we are with all those technical limitations, you think you do but you don't, will not be profitable, wall of no, etc, etc bullshit blown completely out of the water with the announcement that they will be doing classic servers.
Yeah, 5 years later...
So what? Even if it was 10 years later, the "wall of no" was obviously bullshit because it's actually going to happen. Not sure why all the sour grapes over this from people who said it never would.
There are no sour grapes. Just correcting this assertion that "we" were somehow wrong when we merely reiterated what the devs themselves said all these years. I'm happy for the people who will finally get what they've been asking for.
Name 5 things that will make the wotlk'ers and onwards spit their dummies out if they play classic wow when the server launches.
I'l go first
1. No lfg 2. No heirlooms 3. Running everywhere 4. Having to drink mana water 5. Having to use CC
I can think of more can you?
Druids being trained battery monkeys....
But yeah... Most regular players will find the classic servers to be a fun novelty.. short lived and in the end not very pleasant. Especially not when the marketbots take over the AH and they still earn classic amounts of money. =P
Now me personally who went from CoH in to WoW.... I don´t think WoW was worth playing before WotLK.. That is my opinion and i stand by it. Classic WoW lacked so many QoL features that other games had and the story in Burning Crusade was... Well... As a hero of the WORLD i really enjoyed being a entry level busboy again.... =P Sure it got better but it never got good.
Something tells me that the "Vanilla" as people remember it, and the "Vanilla" that will show up on these servers are going to be 2 different things for a majority of the people playing it.
Maybe because they might change some stuff, maybe because we remember it differently... probably both. I'd recommend to anybody that's pumped up about this news to keep their expectations in check.
I'll probably return to play it, but I don't expect to be playing long.
"Brack is clear that using modern server architecture doesn’t mean that these Classic servers will have the same features that current World of Warcraft does. There won’t be cross-realm servers or Looking For Raid and Dungeon Finder automatic party matchmaking. There’s still a lot of questions about how the team will tackle it, but Brack says they’re committed to recreating an authentic Vanilla World of Warcraft experience. "One of the tenets of Classic WoW is none of the cross-server realms and different [server] sharding options that we have available to us today. There’s a lot of desire on part of the community that this is something that they don’t want."
" If millions of people show up and play for years, that’s awesome. And if just tens of people show up and play for years, we’re fine either way. What’s important to us is that we have this Classic experience people can enjoy, that people do have the opportunity to go back to."
And this is what I expected would be the case. I just don't think they're stupid enough to make this announcement and then give people something other than the vanilla experience they are asking for.
It's a good interview with a lot of information thanks to @kitarad for linking it in another thread.
Its black and white (literally) as to what Blizzard has planned with Vanilla. I really like their attitude towards it.
Hopefully it's successful and it has an influence on future WoW
The question is "how classic" or in this case I guess "how vanilla." I don't see them releasing verbatim the original, likely something similar to EQ/EQ2 progression servers -- same skill systems as live patches. The game as it is now, with expansions locked out.
I could be wrong, and if so, likely to see the original skill and talent set tweaked in some way over the raw original.
I'm not personally excited for this, I may check it out, I may not.
I'm still wondering if they will make it a separate sub or include it with the regular sub as just other servers (and another client of course.)
I'm sure they want to recoup the cost quickly but OTOH it could just attract or bring back a good crowd just to check it out. Besides, having it as one sub sort of reinforces their position that it's all one WOW IP, not 2 different ones as some of the emu crowd like to argue.
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm still wondering if they will make it a separate sub or include it with the regular sub as just other servers (and another client of course.)
I'm sure they want to recoup the cost quickly but OTOH it could just attract or bring back a good crowd just to check it out. Besides, having it as one sub sort of reinforces their position that it's all one WOW IP, not 2 different ones as some of the emu crowd like to argue.
I wonder if they're thinking some folks who didn't experience vanilla WoW may try it based on the hype, then transition over to live WoW to see what the evolutions brought. That would encourage the idea that one sub would be best. The vanilla hype to get them in, modern to keep them subscribed going forward.
I'm still wondering if they will make it a separate sub or include it with the regular sub as just other servers (and another client of course.)
I'm sure they want to recoup the cost quickly but OTOH it could just attract or bring back a good crowd just to check it out. Besides, having it as one sub sort of reinforces their position that it's all one WOW IP, not 2 different ones as some of the emu crowd like to argue.
I wonder if they're thinking some folks who didn't experience vanilla WoW may try it based on the hype.
That's exactly what I'm doing. Never played WoW. I took a break from gaming several months after SWG released due to burn out. Didn't get back until 2007 with the release of LOTRO so missed out on the WoW launch hype.
I played lot of characters to 19 for BGs . So I constantly tried to get different pets for my hunters. It was a fun endeavour. I never levelled any character but my priest to 60 though. I did love the game immensely. I played on the private servers but the PvE one was not very crowded only had about 900 to 1000 players but the PvP servers were very crowded.
I think it will be the same if Blizzard launches the servers the PvP servers will be very popular the PvE not so much because I think PvE is all about content which stops at 60 so there is that.
There's a thought, will thinking become a thing again?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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I played lot of characters to 19 for BGs . So I constantly tried to get different pets for my hunters. It was a fun endeavour. I never levelled any character but my priest to 60 though. I did love the game immensely. I played on the private servers but the PvE one was not very crowded only had about 900 to 1000 players but the PvP servers were very crowded.
I think it will be the same if Blizzard launches the servers the PvP servers will be very popular the PvE not so much because I think PvE is all about content which stops at 60 so there is that.
There's a thought, will thinking become a thing again?
Only if people can get a participation trophy for it.
Stupid spell checker, what I meant to ask is will "twinking" become popular again? (Perhaps it still is?)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Twinking alts is half the fun of an old school mmo for me. It lets me explore a lot of different aspects to the game play. I've done that since Lineage.
Ive forgotten was it every 10 levels from 19 onwards BGs were organized by?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I mean I'm excited to try it again, but I don't understand the idea that Classic WoW was somehow more difficult than the modern version. From what I remember every class had a 3 button pve rotation, the raid mechanics were almost nonexistant until C'thun, and at least 75% of my server first guild backpedaled and clicked the majority of their abilities.
Comments
I do create things and "no" I don't have a period where I want to suffer, I get euphoric. It's why I get on 6+ hour creative binges.
I think what is closer to the truth is that people don't know what they want or don't realize that accepting something else might actually be better for them.
Just because someone in a video says something doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Also, his example is with a wife and a mistress. I think there's a lot more going on there then lose the wife you lose the mistress.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But part of the bit that was good about vanilla wow that has been ruined is the dumbing down additions (aka, QoL changes) like dungeon finders. Other things like hunter pet normalization and ammo changes.
The whole players like it bit isn't good enough. I liked having to make poisons for my rogue and it was one part of what made it feel like playing a character in a world. If the lesson they learn is old content with the new game play features, then they failed to understand.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Technically, it's too early to say who is right and who is wrong. Remember that Classic could be a complete failure and nobody comes back to WoW to play it, which would support Blizzard's previous stance. People say that they want vanilla servers, but do they want subscription vanilla servers which are controlled by Blizzard? My guess is no.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Poisons, ammo and simlar could very well be done like they should, heck, I certainly hope so and that is actually rather likely they leave the old way there.
When was the decision made to work on this?
This has been an ongoing internal debate. I'm sure that this has happened off and on throughout the years, right? But last year this reached a fever pitch, and we really had a lot of internal discussions because we want to make sure that we provide a great experience for our players. And I think our concern was gonna be our ability to execute Blizzard quality going back so many years. You don't want to ruin the experience. It has to be an authentic experience. But by the same token, people don't want some of the funky bugs that we had back then.
http://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-blizzard-plans-to-finally-bring-back-vanilla-wow-servers/
"Brack is clear that using modern server architecture doesn’t mean that these Classic servers will have the same features that current World of Warcraft does. There won’t be cross-realm servers or Looking For Raid and Dungeon Finder automatic party matchmaking. There’s still a lot of questions about how the team will tackle it, but Brack says they’re committed to recreating an authentic Vanilla World of Warcraft experience. "One of the tenets of Classic WoW is none of the cross-server realms and different [server] sharding options that we have available to us today. There’s a lot of desire on part of the community that this is something that they don’t want."
" If millions of people show up and play for years, that’s awesome. And if just tens of people show up and play for years, we’re fine either way. What’s important to us is that we have this Classic experience people can enjoy, that people do have the opportunity to go back to."
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
But yeah... Most regular players will find the classic servers to be a fun novelty.. short lived and in the end not very pleasant. Especially not when the marketbots take over the AH and they still earn classic amounts of money. =P
Now me personally who went from CoH in to WoW.... I don´t think WoW was worth playing before WotLK.. That is my opinion and i stand by it. Classic WoW lacked so many QoL features that other games had and the story in Burning Crusade was... Well... As a hero of the WORLD i really enjoyed being a entry level busboy again.... =P Sure it got better but it never got good.
This have been a good conversation
Maybe because they might change some stuff, maybe because we remember it differently... probably both. I'd recommend to anybody that's pumped up about this news to keep their expectations in check.
I'll probably return to play it, but I don't expect to be playing long.
Its black and white (literally) as to what Blizzard has planned with Vanilla. I really like their attitude towards it.
Hopefully it's successful and it has an influence on future WoW
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I could be wrong, and if so, likely to see the original skill and talent set tweaked in some way over the raw original.
I'm not personally excited for this, I may check it out, I may not.
I'm sure they want to recoup the cost quickly but OTOH it could just attract or bring back a good crowd just to check it out. Besides, having it as one sub sort of reinforces their position that it's all one WOW IP, not 2 different ones as some of the emu crowd like to argue.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Quite a strong opinion, for an opinion.
Looking forward to seeing what it was all about.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon