What if they WANT those griefers? Just like Eve does?
The line between griefing and non-griefing tends to differ from person to person's opinion when it comes to open loot PvP games. The "I like open loot PvP games" player base, despite being very small, is not a hive mind after all and actually consists of a rather wide range where it's impossible to please all of them at the same time.
Really, even if they manage to get Star Citizen mechanically functional, the nightmare has only just begun. The base mechanics of a persistent online game are only a very small part of it and figuring out the right balance of PvP and griefing is another hurdle they'll have to overcome which could completely break the game even if everything else is good. (although if it gets to that point, there's always the safeguard method that most other games take, which is nerfing PvP to the ground via things like insane karma penalties to the point where they might as well not have had open PvP in the first place)
The line between griefing and not griefing is always tricky.
Star Citizen does want to legitimate piracy as gameplay, not just as "boo! you bad player!", what is griefing is exploiting a legit area without consequence. Now killing a player in a safe patrolled area is gameplay of consequence.
The balance should more hit on getting new players more secured so they are not the direct target of such gameplay.
And that's tricky! Both paragraphs! "Easier said than done" has always applied to open PvP game karma/law/mechanic systems, and not only is both systems that you brought up not an exception to that, it's practically going to be a stellar example of it, I'm sure.
And that's tricky! Both paragraphs! "Easier said than done" has always applied to open PvP game karma/law/mechanic systems, and not only is both systems that you brought up not an exception to that, it's practically going to be a stellar example of it, I'm sure.
But the tricky part is salty people.
If you PvP someone and are in advantage for a wathever reason, just the fact you have say 3 people with you against 1, obviously, you will win, the other person will go the forums complaining "I got griefed!".
And the sort of situations why I think guild play is of the largest benefit, play as a group not solo will save you from the sorts of selective PvP.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Looks good. .. too good maybe. . . PC upgrade when it gets released? lolz already about the "you have 5 more years then" responses. Seriously though, I figured during the original kickstarter it would run fine. the early alpha did. Not so sure any more.
And that's tricky! Both paragraphs! "Easier said than done" has always applied to open PvP game karma/law/mechanic systems, and not only is both systems that you brought up not an exception to that, it's practically going to be a stellar example of it, I'm sure.
But the tricky part is salty people.
If that is truly the case, and it very well might be, that would mean that the problem is with larger masses of the players (the "salty people") and not with anything the developers could do. In that case then, it basically means there is no way to make an open PvP game NOT niche until the salty masses themselves change.
Which ties back to the whole "Star Citizen is going to be niche at best" thing. If the fault truly lies on the people for being salty (which it very well might. I too feel that, even if it might not be the only cause for why open PvP games are niche, it's a big contributing one at the very least), then Star Citizen is gong to be niche as an open PvP game no matter what it does because it's the saltiness of the people that's at fault and not anything the developers can do (as there is nothing the developers can do to make people less salty besides, again, nerfing the open PvP to the point of irrelevance)
I will never play another $15 + a month game with open pvp, because of Eve and if Star citizen does not curtail guilds like Goonswarm, BoB ect. I will just quit $1,000.00 + invisted or not.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
I will never play another $15 + a month game with open pvp, because of Eve and if Star citizen does not curtail guilds like Goonswarm, BoB ect. I will just quit $1,000.00 + invisted or not.
Trust me there will be a monthly fee, $15 - 30 in my opion to many folks involved not to try it.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
If that is truly the case, and it very well might be, that would mean that the problem is with larger masses of the players (the "salty people") and not with anything the developers could do. In that case then, it basically means there is no way to make an open PvP game NOT niche until the salty masses themselves change.
Which ties back to the whole "Star Citizen is going to be niche at best" thing. If the fault truly lies on the people for being salty (which it very well might. I too feel that, even if it might not be the only cause for why open PvP games are niche, it's a big contributing one at the very least), then Star Citizen is gong to be niche as an open PvP game no matter what it does because it's the saltiness of the people that's at fault and not anything the developers can do (as there is nothing the developers can do to make people less salty besides, again, nerfing the open PvP to the point of irrelevance)
It's even a cultural problem within gaming communities. You can accept the sense of loss against the game AI, but you feel like it's always someone's else's fault if you face the same loss in the hands of another player, as you don't have as much control.
But we're still to see their approach, but i think SC would fit within people who prefer PvE if those people go in guilds, they can do their stuff and contribute while at the same time others would be dedicated to PvP, escorts, etc...
Meaning you won't be able to jump in your ship and explore or do quests without an escort. Not cool.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Meaning you won't be able to jump in your ship and explore or do quests without an escort. Not cool.
Why is it not cool? The game should have a risk vs reward.
So secured areas safe bet to play alone, but the higher rewarding stuff won't be behind secure areas so it's likely where we will see escorts, scouts, etc... I would say stuff like mining or trading "trains".
This is why the mission system has contracts, that will set to allow players to create their own contracts with other players, so you can request one escort, rescue, etc... that one really nice design, it feeds the MP aspect of the game that is not PvP.
Well, Albion Online allegedly lets people support their guilds while not partaking in PvP but it's failing kinda miserably on that front from what I heard. Honestly while theretically possible, such a gameplan requires the devs to spend a bunch of resources on one aspect of the game (PvP) while also spending resources giving a way to avoid it for the non-PvPers, which means that much more resources used and that many more game-world considerations to add to the sphaghetti code and sphaghetti global balance, which is likely a major reason why no one's really succeeded at the formula yet.
Is it even possible? If so, will Star Citizen be the first to find that special balance? Maybe. But it's for sure another hurdle they'll have to surpass even after getting the mechanical side of things finished.
Meaning you won't be able to jump in your ship and explore or do quests without an escort. Not cool.
Why is it not cool? The game should have a risk vs reward.
So secured areas safe bet to play alone, but the higher rewarding stuff won't be behind secure areas so it's likely where we will see escorts, scouts, etc... I would say stuff like mining or trading "trains".
This is why the mission system has contracts, that will set to allow players to create their own contracts with other players, so you can request one escort, rescue, etc... that one really nice design, it feeds the MP aspect of the game that is not PvP.
Risk vs reward is cool as long as it's balanced. A player should be able to run some quests solo. As long as the player has a choice, solo quests with low risks and low rewards, OK. But when every quest is high risk high rewards... combined with maintenance costs and fuel costs.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Risk vs reward is cool as long as it's balanced. A player should be able to run some quests solo. As long as the player has a choice, solo quests with low risks and low rewards, OK. But when every quest is high risk high rewards... combined with maintenance costs and fuel costs.
Yes that's the exact point.
You should be able to play solo, in secure areas, just not earning as much, then once you want go high tier content and/or doing stuff in areas of high risk then it's where guilds and co-op play benefits you most. I do dislike the approach of "singleplayer-MMO", I think multiplayer needs to be a core thing to SC beyond just PvP interaction.
People seem to have forgotten that unlike EVE Star Citizen will be a single shard universe broken up into many smaller local instances. When you enter an area of space there could conceivably be multiple instances of that area depending on player count. This will be done not only to allow all players to inhabit the same universe but also put like minded players together based on their playstyles. If someone is more prone to PvP they are less likely to be put into an instance with someone who never PvPs for example. This alone should cut down on a lot of the griefing and allow soloing to be more than feasible.
People seem to have forgotten that unlike EVE Star Citizen will be a single shard universe broken up into many smaller local instances. When you enter an area of space there could conceivably be multiple instances of that area depending on player count. This will be done not only to allow all players to inhabit the same universe but also put like minded players together based on their playstyles. If someone is more prone to PvP they are less likely to be put into an instance with someone who never PvPs for example. This alone should cut down on a lot of the griefing and allow soloing to be more than feasible.
Bren
An Outlaw instance would be an interesting idea, with very high rewards.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
People seem to have forgotten that unlike EVE Star Citizen will be a single shard universe broken up into many smaller local instances. When you enter an area of space there could conceivably be multiple instances of that area depending on player count. This will be done not only to allow all players to inhabit the same universe but also put like minded players together based on their playstyles. If someone is more prone to PvP they are less likely to be put into an instance with someone who never PvPs for example. This alone should cut down on a lot of the griefing and allow soloing to be more than feasible.
Bren
An Outlaw instance would be an interesting idea, with very high rewards.
There will be areas like in EVE where the risks will rise exponentially. These areas will be a free for all and soloers may want to avoid them. The universe should be big enough however that these areas will not be required so avoiding them shouldn't be an issue. Outlaw space will be a part of Star Citizen but won't be a large part of the universe based on the current Star Map.
If someone is more prone to PvP they are less likely to be put into an instance with someone who never PvPs for example. This alone should cut down on a lot of the griefing and allow soloing to be more than feasible.
Bren
I have never seen any mention of a match-making system as you have described above. Could you please link me to this being mentioned from an official source at CIG?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
If someone is more prone to PvP they are less likely to be put into an instance with someone who never PvPs for example. This alone should cut down on a lot of the griefing and allow soloing to be more than feasible.
Bren
I have never seen any mention of a match-making system as you have described above. Could you please link me to this being mentioned from an official source at CIG?
Right from the man himself...
Edit: I'm not sure why but it doesn't start in the place I specified. The part where he addresses this specifically is at 6:33.
My description may be an oversimplification of the overall system but it's basically accurate. This of course is subject to change but they've said nothing up to this point in time that would contradict what has been laid out previously.
What they are to do now is not the multi-inscanded setup (as unlimited copies of the same area), it's the server mesh, that is one single "region" server that is ran by different servers per different locations, but all players should persist in that same global instance of the game.
That forces changes to designs as the pvp slider, etc... to be seen.
What they are to do now is not the multi-inscanded setup (as unlimited copies of the same area), it's the server mesh, that is one single "region" server that is ran by different servers per different locations, but all players should persist in that same global instance of the game.
That forces changes to designs as the pvp slider, etc... to be seen.
Link to this? I'm not trying to be trouble it's just that I somehow missed this and google isn't coming up with this info. I'd like to read/see it first hand.
not sure if this was already posted. the awesomeness that is Galactic Gear is back!
"Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!" For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG
Comments
If you PvP someone and are in advantage for a wathever reason, just the fact you have say 3 people with you against 1, obviously, you will win, the other person will go the forums complaining "I got griefed!".
And the sort of situations why I think guild play is of the largest benefit, play as a group not solo will save you from the sorts of selective PvP.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Which ties back to the whole "Star Citizen is going to be niche at best" thing. If the fault truly lies on the people for being salty (which it very well might. I too feel that, even if it might not be the only cause for why open PvP games are niche, it's a big contributing one at the very least), then Star Citizen is gong to be niche as an open PvP game no matter what it does because it's the saltiness of the people that's at fault and not anything the developers can do (as there is nothing the developers can do to make people less salty besides, again, nerfing the open PvP to the point of irrelevance)
MAGA
Trust me there will be a monthly fee, $15 - 30 in my opion to many folks involved not to try it.
MAGA
But we're still to see their approach, but i think SC would fit within people who prefer PvE if those people go in guilds, they can do their stuff and contribute while at the same time others would be dedicated to PvP, escorts, etc...
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
So secured areas safe bet to play alone, but the higher rewarding stuff won't be behind secure areas so it's likely where we will see escorts, scouts, etc... I would say stuff like mining or trading "trains".
This is why the mission system has contracts, that will set to allow players to create their own contracts with other players, so you can request one escort, rescue, etc... that one really nice design, it feeds the MP aspect of the game that is not PvP.
Is it even possible? If so, will Star Citizen be the first to find that special balance? Maybe. But it's for sure another hurdle they'll have to surpass even after getting the mechanical side of things finished.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You should be able to play solo, in secure areas, just not earning as much, then once you want go high tier content and/or doing stuff in areas of high risk then it's where guilds and co-op play benefits you most. I do dislike the approach of "singleplayer-MMO", I think multiplayer needs to be a core thing to SC beyond just PvP interaction.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Right from the man himself...
Edit: I'm not sure why but it doesn't start in the place I specified. The part where he addresses this specifically is at 6:33.
Here is an entire write up on how instancing is planned to work in Star Citizen:
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12770-Chris-Roberts-On-Multiplayer-Single-Player-And-Instancing
My description may be an oversimplification of the overall system but it's basically accurate. This of course is subject to change but they've said nothing up to this point in time that would contradict what has been laid out previously.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
What they are to do now is not the multi-inscanded setup (as unlimited copies of the same area), it's the server mesh, that is one single "region" server that is ran by different servers per different locations, but all players should persist in that same global instance of the game.
That forces changes to designs as the pvp slider, etc... to be seen.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
https://i.imgur.com/EeukC6L.mp4
Don't fall down the rabbit hole:
Back on topic guys!
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
"Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!"
For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG