I think it is always quite interesting the explanations that politicians, companies , developers and other entities give when they are caught red handed. There must be some very limber mental gymnastics that are performed to come out with bald faced lies and try to convince people otherwise.
I think it is always quite interesting the explanations that politicians, companies , developers and other entities give when they are caught red handed. There must be some very limber mental gymnastics that are performed to come out with bald faced lies and try to convince people otherwise.
They actually barely even bother to apologize or justify because they know damn well that these days all they really need to do is wait for the short public attention span to run its course and move on to the next thing.
The outrage either gets outdated automatically or they help it along with very simple "But hey, look over here!" messages.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Remember that tidbit about Activision attaining a copyright to manipulate player spending,yeah not a lot of good coming out of that giant operation.I noticed a distinct manipulation opening card packs in Hearthstone as well and perhaps thew worst crooked operation going is Kings Isle and Wizard 101 pack opening and Boss lootboxes that require money to open each time.
Point is that rng is not the sole formulas used,there is manipulation to force more spending.
This is why the law needs to move in fast,myself,gamer's we tend to TRUST the system,trust developers,trust they are doing the right thing,we tend to be naive and developers are taking advantage of it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Seriously, WTF? Spend a fortune on the box, then you have to drop tons of money just to enjoy the game later? I am just getting too old for this bullshit now. Time for a cheaper hobby, maybe boating or classic auto restoration.
Seriously, WTF? Spend a fortune on the box, then you have to drop tons of money just to enjoy the game later? I am just getting too old for this bullshit now. Time for a cheaper hobby, maybe boating or classic auto restoration.
That's typically been how I've dropped all my other old hobbies and picked up new ones, video games is the last one to go, but now it's too pricey.
Seriously, WTF? Spend a fortune on the box, then you have to drop tons of money just to enjoy the game later? I am just getting too old for this bullshit now. Time for a cheaper hobby, maybe boating or classic auto restoration.
No, actually you don't have to drop any more money. See this whole rant might give you the impression that progression is slow and drops don't rain like gold from the skies, but they do. In the time I first post to the time I posted again I ran the IO challenge, a couple lost sectors, and some heroic events. I got 1 exotic engram, 3 legendary engram drops, 1 powerful from the weekly guild bonus, and cashed in about 10 - 12 legendary engrams from rep vendors.
The exotic dropped armour (boo) which were shoulders or legs I think. The legendaries were enough to bump up most all my weapons to 278 and have shards left over. I went from LL 283 to 284 in that 1 hour and 45 minute play session. I have 63 hours logged in the game and I have a couple developed characters.
good for you. I Just started a new character, 1-20 with a fireteam token on and had zero exotics drop for me and only 1 legendary. I decided to grind public events and did so for about 4 hours and still no exotic drops with a full team and two tokens active. RNJESUS hates me!! The whole reason I started over was because i was stuck at 282 because of this bs RNG system. Now on my new character I was able to get to 284...yay.. meanwhile all my friends are at 300 doing the same exact things I am with me. Sometimes two or 2 exotics drop for them while we are playing and I only get blues.
Basic economics. Does the store announce when it raises the prices on milk? Why does every price end in 99? All game companies adjust their XP curves to attain maximum profit. Businesses aren't charities.
No, those are not comparable analogies, as in both cases the purchaser can clearly see the price going up.
Closer would be when they reduce a "package" of bacon from 16 oz to 12 oz, but even there the weight has to be on the package by law.
A better real life analogy is when casinos reduce the payout rates on slot machines, without having to tell anyone they've done so.
Of course businesses aren't charities but there is a big difference between selling something for fair market value or even whatever the market will bear vs. predatory or deceptive practices which the actions in this situation more closely resemble.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A better real life analogy is when casinos reduce the payout rates on slot machines, without having to tell anyone they've done so.
Since the Casino isn't showing a different payout rate than the actual payout rate, not a fair comparison either. Funny that we struggle to find a real comparison?
That shows how bad it is, except that it wasn't directly tied to a cash transaction...unless you were using fireteam medallions.
Bigger picture, I've heard it said that Destiny 2 is worse than Destiny 1, even comparing both at launch. At best, it's the same game.
If true, then the motivation to start a new game instead of improving the old one was to implement this specific micro-transaction system?
A better real life analogy is when casinos reduce the payout rates on slot machines, without having to tell anyone they've done so.
Since the Casino isn't showing a different payout rate than the actual payout rate, not a fair comparison either. Funny that we struggle to find a real comparison?
That shows how bad it is, except that it wasn't directly tied to a cash transaction...unless you were using fireteam medallions.
Bigger picture, I've heard it said that Destiny 2 is worse than Destiny 1, even comparing both at launch. At best, it's the same game.
If true, then the motivation to start a new game instead of improving the old one was to implement this specific micro-transaction system?
Well, one major annoying thing about microtransactions is that development and design time spent on them is time that could have gone towards the actual game. So it's possible they originally intended more but ended up just spending all their development and design time budget on the microtransactions in this case or something. That would have been a spectacularly lame budget though.
The only moral dilemma violated here was lying. For some reason they felt the need to lie. We can conjecture all day but at the end of it, if what is said in the article is true, they lied.
I don't think you can strictly say they were lying. One player demonstrated that the XP shown onscreen does not match the XP gained in the bar. Other players verified that, independent of the article.
Bungie admitted that it was working as intended, but they were now "not satisfied" with the system. So you can accuse them of being dishonest. In my book, dishonest people are more dangerous.
But with all this outcry, I have an argument that it has to be this way, or more precisely companies like Bungie inevitably have to become this way, because of capitalism. Have to in the sense that you do it, or you get fired.
1. They've admitted that they had been downscaling XP and have now turned it off. 2, The downscaled XP was not reflected on the XP shown as earned.
It's obviously within the realm of possibility that the XP shown as earned had a visual bug that didn't show the correct amount earned but it's curious that if this was a visual bug, Bungie failed to mention that in their statement since it's precisely that discrepancy between earned and displayed XP that is the basis for calling it a lie:
"We’ve seen community discussion around XP gain in Destiny. After reviewing our data, we agree that the system is not performing the way we’d like it to. Today, we’d like to describe what’s going on under the hood, and talk about what you can expect going forward when it comes to earning XP in Destiny 2.
Currently, XP will scale up when playing longer or fixed duration activities like Crucible competitive multiplayer matches and the Leviathan Raid, and XP will scale down when playing activities that can be quickly, repeatedly chained, like grinding Public Events. We are not happy with the results, and we’ve heard the same from the community.
Effective immediately, we are deactivating this system."
So... you judge. Is it more likely that they were lying or that it was big oops?
Is it just the usual suspects "morally outraging" or is it perhaps the other usual suspects deflecting and belittling those who don't believe in the gaming companies god-given right to do as they please?
You decide.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Have to agree with Iselin, the statement was a rather candid admission that "yea, it was implemented that way".
Maybe they'll extrapolate and it will be a visual bug, but it seems strange they wouldn't have called it that immediately. Their response never made mention of it displaying incorrectly, but that it worked the way the players deduced and they were immediately changing it.
I understand you're enjoying the game, Torval, but that doesn't mean heads should be stuck in the sand when there's been pretty strong evidence presented they've been misleading gamers.
Have to agree with Iselin, the statement was a rather candid admission that "yea, it was implemented that way".
Maybe they'll extrapolate and it will be a visual bug, but it seems strange they wouldn't have called it that immediately. Their response never made mention of it displaying incorrectly, but that it worked the way the players deduced and they were immediately changing it.
I understand you're enjoying the game, Torval, but that doesn't mean heads should be stuck in the sand when there's been pretty strong evidence presented they've been misleading gamers.
Remind me of Kevin Spacey's statement. Not an admission of guilt, but not a denial either.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I'm actually surprised it took people ?months? to realize this? I understood what was happening with the bright engrams maybe 3 days after purchasing Desting 2 -- considering I had maxed level after 48 hours. It should be common sense that you'd gain less exp every time you level, but with better rewards as you hit level milestones or get lucky. Circumstantial if you'd even GET better rewards for continuous leveling.
However, it's pretty weak when the company monetizes the lootbox. That's really the only reason why people are complaining about this. Bright engrams don't give you anything useful, btw -- it's cosmetic garbage.
Comparing a habitual sexual predator living in denial to an xp balance issue in a game is crazy. People need to dial back down to reality.
Surely you mean people need to stop misinterpreting things? I was just referring to the statements as a PR/damage control stunt. Sometimes you go way beyond what was actually said. It reminds me of his "statement", not what he did.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Comparing a habitual sexual predator living in denial to an xp balance issue in a game is crazy. People need to dial back down to reality.
If people who don't play the game want to frame an outrage issue and setup their next industry bogeyman nothing anyone else says will stop you. Considering the games those people play their outrage is laughable.
For someone who labels the evolution of lootbox usage a non-issue and hates how it produces forum PvP, your post about that very issue seems to crave some forum PvP.
[pred-uh-tawr-ee, -tohr-ee] adjective 1. Zoology. preying upon other organisms for food. 2. of, relating to, or characterized by plunder, pillage, robbery, or exploitation: predatory tactics. 3. engaging in or living by these activities: predatory bands of brigands 4. excessive or exploitive in amount or cost, as out of greed or to take advantage of consumers or patrons: predatory pricing. 5. acting with or possessed by overbearing, rapacious, or selfish motives: He was cornered at the party by a predatory reporter.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think it is always quite interesting the explanations that politicians, companies , developers and other entities give when they are caught red handed. There must be some very limber mental gymnastics that are performed to come out with bald faced lies and try to convince people otherwise.
They actually barely even bother to apologize or justify because they know damn well that these days all they really need to do is wait for the short public attention span to run its course and move on to the next thing.
The outrage either gets outdated automatically or they help it along with very simple "But hey, look over here!" messages.
Tend to agree, but considering these past few months, Activision and EA seem to be competing to be labeled the biggest scumbags of 2017.
I get the feeling they don't want us to forget. I've heard 3 - 4 stories each for both companies the past 2 -3 months. Think it will be bit harder for people to forget, well I hope anyway.
Basic economics. Does the store announce when it raises the prices on milk? Why does every price end in 99? All game companies adjust their XP curves to attain maximum profit. Businesses aren't charities.
Consumers aren't charities either yet game companies seem bound and determined to treat them as such. This idea of pay now, pay later, pay again and again and again, is not consumer friendly. And in fact when coupled with RNG gambling and deceptive game mechanics like unannounced XP penalties to increase grind is down right predatory.
Make sure you have your maxed LL gear equipped when picking up any engrams. You have to do it before you pick up an engram because once it's picked up the LL is locked.
I thought you didn't need to swap gear in D2, that it looked at your inventory to determine the level of gear you should be receiving. Is that not working? I know the original Destiny worked that way though.
Update on the entire subject: after promising to rework the system, Bungie has doubled the amount of XP required to earn the engrams.
At least they're being honest about it, though from what I understand, they doubled it prior to actually implementing the fix to the game to reflect accurate XP earned per activity. /facepalm
In my opinion rewards drop like candy in the game except for exotics. There needs to be a more deterministic path to unlocking exotics than waiting for a drop. I like that I can pull them out of the locker (for a fee) and upgrade them to max that way, but getting the few I want that I don't have is a pain.
In my opinion Exotics drop and acquisition outside of Trials, Nightfall, or Leviathan is the issue that affects progression and fun. The Bright Engrams are mostly skins and shaders. It's fun to deck out the character in style, but it's not part of what improves combat encounters.
If we're going to talk about issues then lets address those that relate to game fun.
It seems to be a large issue on their official forums, and is related to the original premise, so it felt worth adding.
I did also notice a thread with a heavy amount of upvotes in support of the idea that tokens sucked.
However, it's really about maintaining good communication with players here. If you've already been called out for misrepresenting a game feature in a way that stank to high heavens of ".... Or you could just buy it!" the last thing you wanna do is ninja change a related system to, again, increase grind. That's not even a tough concept for an individual to understand, much less a veteran game studio.
Comments
The outrage either gets outdated automatically or they help it along with very simple "But hey, look over here!" messages.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Point is that rng is not the sole formulas used,there is manipulation to force more spending.
This is why the law needs to move in fast,myself,gamer's we tend to TRUST the system,trust developers,trust they are doing the right thing,we tend to be naive and developers are taking advantage of it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Spend a fortune on the box, then you have to drop tons of money just to enjoy the game later?
I am just getting too old for this bullshit now.
Time for a cheaper hobby, maybe boating or classic auto restoration.
That's typically been how I've dropped all my other old hobbies and picked up new ones, video games is the last one to go, but now it's too pricey.
good for you. I Just started a new character, 1-20 with a fireteam token on and had zero exotics drop for me and only 1 legendary. I decided to grind public events and did so for about 4 hours and still no exotic drops with a full team and two tokens active. RNJESUS hates me!! The whole reason I started over was because i was stuck at 282 because of this bs RNG system. Now on my new character I was able to get to 284...yay.. meanwhile all my friends are at 300 doing the same exact things I am with me. Sometimes two or 2 exotics drop for them while we are playing and I only get blues.
Closer would be when they reduce a "package" of bacon from 16 oz to 12 oz, but even there the weight has to be on the package by law.
A better real life analogy is when casinos reduce the payout rates on slot machines, without having to tell anyone they've done so.
Of course businesses aren't charities but there is a big difference between selling something for fair market value or even whatever the market will bear vs. predatory or deceptive practices which the actions in this situation more closely resemble.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That shows how bad it is, except that it wasn't directly tied to a cash transaction...unless you were using fireteam medallions.
Bigger picture, I've heard it said that Destiny 2 is worse than Destiny 1, even comparing both at launch. At best, it's the same game.
If true, then the motivation to start a new game instead of improving the old one was to implement this specific micro-transaction system?
Bungie admitted that it was working as intended, but they were now "not satisfied" with the system. So you can accuse them of being dishonest. In my book, dishonest people are more dangerous.
But with all this outcry, I have an argument that it has to be this way, or more precisely companies like Bungie inevitably have to become this way, because of capitalism. Have to in the sense that you do it, or you get fired.
2, The downscaled XP was not reflected on the XP shown as earned.
It's obviously within the realm of possibility that the XP shown as earned had a visual bug that didn't show the correct amount earned but it's curious that if this was a visual bug, Bungie failed to mention that in their statement since it's precisely that discrepancy between earned and displayed XP that is the basis for calling it a lie:
Currently, XP will scale up when playing longer or fixed duration activities like Crucible competitive multiplayer matches and the Leviathan Raid, and XP will scale down when playing activities that can be quickly, repeatedly chained, like grinding Public Events. We are not happy with the results, and we’ve heard the same from the community.
Effective immediately, we are deactivating this system."
So... you judge. Is it more likely that they were lying or that it was big oops?
Is it just the usual suspects "morally outraging" or is it perhaps the other usual suspects deflecting and belittling those who don't believe in the gaming companies god-given right to do as they please?
You decide.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Maybe they'll extrapolate and it will be a visual bug, but it seems strange they wouldn't have called it that immediately. Their response never made mention of it displaying incorrectly, but that it worked the way the players deduced and they were immediately changing it.
I understand you're enjoying the game, Torval, but that doesn't mean heads should be stuck in the sand when there's been pretty strong evidence presented they've been misleading gamers.
However, it's pretty weak when the company monetizes the lootbox. That's really the only reason why people are complaining about this. Bright engrams don't give you anything useful, btw -- it's cosmetic garbage.
http://twitch.tv/woetothevanquished
predatory
[pred-uh-tawr-ee, -tohr-ee]
adjective
1. Zoology. preying upon other organisms for food.
2. of, relating to, or characterized by plunder, pillage, robbery, or exploitation: predatory tactics.
3. engaging in or living by these activities: predatory bands of brigands
4. excessive or exploitive in amount or cost, as out of greed or to take advantage of consumers or patrons: predatory pricing.
5. acting with or possessed by overbearing, rapacious, or selfish motives: He was cornered at the party by a predatory reporter.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I get the feeling they don't want us to forget. I've heard 3 - 4 stories each for both companies the past 2 -3 months. Think it will be bit harder for people to forget, well I hope anyway.
And in fact when coupled with RNG gambling and deceptive game mechanics like unannounced XP penalties to increase grind is down right predatory.
At least they're being honest about it, though from what I understand, they doubled it prior to actually implementing the fix to the game to reflect accurate XP earned per activity. /facepalm
http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/357769-destiny-2-update-doubles-xp-requirement-bright-engrams
I did also notice a thread with a heavy amount of upvotes in support of the idea that tokens sucked.
However, it's really about maintaining good communication with players here. If you've already been called out for misrepresenting a game feature in a way that stank to high heavens of ".... Or you could just buy it!" the last thing you wanna do is ninja change a related system to, again, increase grind. That's not even a tough concept for an individual to understand, much less a veteran game studio.