So, Where Are YOU on Net Neutrality?

Asm0deus

thunderC said:

That FCC commissioner Ajit Pai has the most douchey look. You ever see someone's face and just instantly know they are a scumbag ?

He doesn't just have the look...lol  Been watching this live and the women on the FCC have the right of it, the other "guys" should be ashamed of their asshatery and lies.

Phry

MrMelGibson said:

zymurgeist said:

Kiwiflava said:

Today is the day (12/14)

https://twitter.com/Machinima/status/939356395371094016

This is a short clip with few words on exactly why every gamer should be fighting to preserve net neutrality. In a nut shell, without it you will see major monopoly on  data caps and internet speed  effecting everything we do because of games including email, social, media, research, communication.

Protect #NetNeutrality
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NetNeutrality&src=tyah

Good luck all and thank you everyone who has taken the time.

Because we had throttling in 2015 before the regulations were passed, illegally, by Mr. phone and pen. Oh wait..... 

Most of you aren't old enough to remember when there were data caps on internet and we paid by the minute. Then competition came to the market, without government interference, and all that went away. The few times companies have tried it since then they have gotten pummeled by the free market. 

Yes, they have tried this shit before.  But Net Neutrality was what kept it in check.



You can keep living in fantasy land where you think the free market will regulate itself.

The free market works, if its allowed to, the problem is that too often the government steps in and enforces some kind of regulation that protects companies and stops them from failing or enables them to gain a monopoly based on regions, the failures of the free market are inevitably government intervention. Let companies fail, let banks fail for that matter, it keeps the rest honest.

Ridelynn

Here's the catch 22, and where I think a lot of disagreement stems from.

The argument isn't really Free Market vs Regulation. That is really a seperate issue from Net Neutrality, although it is related.

"Free Market" only exists where competition is not only allowed to exist, but is encouraged to exist. What we have today with ISPs in America is, by and large, not a Free Market. 

So you cannot frame the argument as Free Market vs Regulation, because that just isn't the reality of the situation.

The real crux of the situation is if we allow the market to become a Free Market, or we allow it to remain a Monopoly or Duopoly in nearly every market. 

If you have a truly Free Market solution, Net Neutrality isn't a requirement at that point. ISPs could, and should, be free to shape traffic as they please, because competition is there that can help consumers shape, correct, and influence the market.

If you retain the Monopoly/Duopoly situation that we currently have, then Net Neutraility is critically important, because there is no ability for the consumer to check the decisions of the ISP.  The only option to shape/correct/influence the market at that point becomes regulation. Otherwise, Internet access becomes a "take it or leave it" commodity, and that serves no good purpose in a tech-based Internet-reliant economy, because then the choice is really "Take it or not participate in the economy".

Another issue is in how Federals define "Broadband Internet". Right now, the FCC says that Broadband Internet is anything that achieves 25Mbps D/3Mbps U. It says nothing about actual capacity. It could be a wireless carrier that offers 25/3, with a data cap of 5Mb, and that qualifies as Broadband - it may only be about 1 second's worth of transmission, but under the current rules, only speed matters.

Speed does matter in a round about way, but what is more important is capacity (which I am defining loosely as your data cap divided by your average speed). For example, if I purchase a typical cellular ISP plan - 54Mb LTE with a 5G data cap per month - that's really only about 12 hours of internet at maximum speed that I'm buying per month. I would say you have 12 hours of internet capacity. Now, people don't necessarily need 720 hours of capacity a month, but you'd likely like to have more than just 12. 

I'm not totally railing against data caps here, I think there is a place for them as tools for ISPs, but definitions need to incorporate that the concept of capacity is what is really defining internet service, not just theoretical maximum speed. I'm also not saying that the definition needs to rate Internet in terms of hours or whatever - that's just my example to illustrate the concept, but it does need to somehow incorporate speed and data availability (cap), however those metrics are used. Latency and data reliability (and perhaps even encryption) may other good metrics that should be considered.

Asm0deus

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/7xwknx/republican-members-of-congress-fcc-letter

Here's a List of the Members of Congress Who Just Told Ajit Pai to Repeal Net Neutrality

And how much money they've taken from the telecom industry.

AriesTiger

I have heard already in the pipeline that certain F2P games and publishers that use the AT&T backbone will be forced to start charging for their games. (Supposedly AT&T is going to start charging game publishers for more than just port 80 stuff.)
 *cough* Soon as this really hits home for f2p gamers (which is slowly where all the low income people are headed) we'll have a much bigger issue/problem to deal with.

Kyleran

Torval said:

Here is an interesting reddit post from a Vice article listing all the Congressional members that got bought out to vote against NN and how much they were paid off. It's sad how little it cost to buy the votes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/7jqwht/heres_a_list_of_the_members_of_congress_who_just/

To clarify, those Congressional members did not "vote" against NN, they signed a letter of recommendation that it be repealed.

Heck, they didn't even provide a typed list of signers so some remain anonymous due to illegible signatures.

MrMelGibson

Horusra said:

MrMelGibson said:

zymurgeist said:

Kiwiflava said:

Today is the day (12/14)

https://twitter.com/Machinima/status/939356395371094016

This is a short clip with few words on exactly why every gamer should be fighting to preserve net neutrality. In a nut shell, without it you will see major monopoly on  data caps and internet speed  effecting everything we do because of games including email, social, media, research, communication.

Protect #NetNeutrality
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NetNeutrality&src=tyah

Good luck all and thank you everyone who has taken the time.

Because we had throttling in 2015 before the regulations were passed, illegally, by Mr. phone and pen. Oh wait..... 

Most of you aren't old enough to remember when there were data caps on internet and we paid by the minute. Then competition came to the market, without government interference, and all that went away. The few times companies have tried it since then they have gotten pummeled by the free market. 

Yes, they have tried this shit before.  But Net Neutrality was what kept it in check.



You can keep living in fantasy land where you think the free market will regulate itself.

I am seeing a lot of tried, where stopped, and sued in almost all of those...so the system before Net Neutrality was working because that stuff was dealt with.

I know you are clueless,  let me help you.  We have had title 1 Net neutrality since the 90s.  That's why the system worked in the past.  You know, because of Net Neutrality.   Let's hope this enlightens you a bit. 

MrMelGibson

MadFrenchie said:

ScotchUp said:

ROFL, any rules Obama put into NN needs to be removed. Nothing Obama and his administration did wasn't good for #America! They are great for the #Democrats because they can ban any Conservative sites. #WakeUpAmerica

Da fuq are you smoking my dude, cause I want some!

He is smoking a Fox news blunt with Brietbart angel dust sprinkled in.

klash2def

we the gamers are fucked

Kumapon

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Horusra

*POPS CHAMPAGNE*

klash2def

also not a coincidence that Disney purchased a huge chunk of Fox today. a lot of things are changing fast.

also wtf The Simpsons predicted this day happening years ago.. somebody should look into the simpsons there is no way all this is coincidence. 

bartoni33

Torval said:

MrMelGibson said:

MadFrenchie said:

ScotchUp said:

ROFL, any rules Obama put into NN needs to be removed. Nothing Obama and his administration did wasn't good for #America! They are great for the #Democrats because they can ban any Conservative sites. #WakeUpAmerica

Da fuq are you smoking my dude, cause I want some!

He is smoking a Fox news blunt with Brietbart angel dust sprinkled in.

Maybe he just loves Cheetos hugely bigly (very big, very huge, very important).

Damn that low-energy Obama for going into the past and creating the legislation for NN in the 90's!

BTW reread his/her second sentence again.

TheScavenger

Horusra said:

*POPS CHAMPAGNE*

TheScavenger

Also, I don't get it. My liberal friends were applauding Merkel for forcing Facebook to censor her political opponents because "fake news". Now suddenly they're concerned about a free and open internet? Yeah right!

bartoni33

TheScavenger said:

Also, I don't get it. My liberal friends were applauding Merkel for forcing Facebook to censor her political opponents because "fake news". Now suddenly they're concerned about a free and open internet? Yeah right!

I would hope that those "political opponents" were actual honest-to-Odin goose-stepping Nazi's and not anything less. I hate Facebook and refuse to use it but I am for the right for any Antifa hipster or LARPing NatSoc to sperge out on it all they want.

Avarix

Horusra said:

*POPS CHAMPAGNE*

You're short-sighted and misinformed if you're celebrating this. You'll learn though. You can be smug today. I'll be smug five years from now when we have things like this:

Gold Tier Elite Gaming from Comcast Internet (The only service provider in your area) now includes 280 minutes of Twitch data. This offer also includes 600 minutes of blazing fast speeds (1.1mbps) for World of Warcraft. Sign up today for an extra 210 Youtube minutes! All of this for an introductory price of only $39.99 a month!*

(*Subject to additional fees and taxes. This offer is only good for twitchtv.com, youtube.com, and World of Warcraft. Excludes all other sites and packages. This deal is only good for customers signing a two year contract. $59.99 after the one year introductory price. Additional charges from Twitchtv.com, Youtube.com, and World of Warcraft may apply.)


That's just the tip of the iceberg. They will also have the ability to throttle, or even stop, data from opposing political websites, or any number of websites that are not in agreement with their views. Essentially having the ability to control the entirety of data on the internet. Breitbart article criticizing the top sitcom on NBC for left wing propaganda? Comcast, which owns NBC, can't have that hurting their ratings. Let's just drop those speeds to 56k while visiting their site. After 6 months of that Breitbart will need to start putting more advertisements on their pages to make up for the lost viewership. All these new ads though use a lot more data. Essentially turning an instant pop up home page into a 2 and a half minute wait, resulting in even fewer viewers. Essentially destroying Breitbart as a news source.

I think you get the idea... Keep on celebrating though. Those of us that bother to stay informed, and think things through, will keep on fighting for you.

Horusra

All the doomsayers here clutching to government's boots is funny.  The government can not run or regulate anything successfully.  You all can have faith in them I will not.  Less government the better.

laserit

Sounds like there are a few hurdles to overcome yet.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/14/the-fcc-just-repealed-net-neutrality-what-happens-next/

The battle is over but the war goes on

Tiller

SedrynTyros said:

Horusra said:

All the doomsayers here clutching to government's boots is funny.  The government can not run or regulate anything successfully.  You all can have faith in them I will not.  Less government the better.

It's remarkable that any human being could have such a narrow view of a situation like this.  "Government is bad" is just some stupid trope that's been pushed on you relentlessly for decades.  There are some things that government is good for.  It's too bad that so many folks like you don't realize that yet.

Looking from the outside as an independent all I gotta say is, since when did the conservatives become the hippies? "It's a conspiracy maaaaan!"

starstorm777

My cat just had kittens, not like anyone cares. POPS CHAMPAGNE!

Horusra

Tiller said:

SedrynTyros said:

Horusra said:

All the doomsayers here clutching to government's boots is funny.  The government can not run or regulate anything successfully.  You all can have faith in them I will not.  Less government the better.

It's remarkable that any human being could have such a narrow view of a situation like this.  "Government is bad" is just some stupid trope that's been pushed on you relentlessly for decades.  There are some things that government is good for.  It's too bad that so many folks like you don't realize that yet.

Looking from the outside as an independent all I gotta say is, since when did the conservatives become the hippies? "It's a conspiracy maaaaan!"

Hippies gave in to the government long ago.  Conservatives have always believed the best place for the government is out of our lives.  Look to the libs here for Big Government.

Horusra

SedrynTyros said:

Horusra said:

All the doomsayers here clutching to government's boots is funny.  The government can not run or regulate anything successfully.  You all can have faith in them I will not.  Less government the better.

It's remarkable that any human being could have such a narrow view of a situation like this.  "Government is bad" is just some stupid trope that's been pushed on you relentlessly for decades.  There are some things that government is good for.  It's too bad that so many folks like you don't realize that yet.

Your government Kool-Aid must taste great.

mrneurosis

TheScavenger said:

Horusra said:

*POPS CHAMPAGNE*

wait till it effects your gaming. You will shit bricks. Be all smug you want now.

Tiller

Horusra said:

Tiller said:

SedrynTyros said:

Horusra said:

All the doomsayers here clutching to government's boots is funny.  The government can not run or regulate anything successfully.  You all can have faith in them I will not.  Less government the better.

It's remarkable that any human being could have such a narrow view of a situation like this.  "Government is bad" is just some stupid trope that's been pushed on you relentlessly for decades.  There are some things that government is good for.  It's too bad that so many folks like you don't realize that yet.

Looking from the outside as an independent all I gotta say is, since when did the conservatives become the hippies? "It's a conspiracy maaaaan!"

Hippies gave in to the government long ago.  Conservatives have always believed the best place for the government is out of our lives.  Look to the libs here for Big Government.

So I guess it's better to have big corporations dictate our lives? Either way for some of us you have no choice in the outcome. Look at loot boxes, you can speak with your wallet but they don't care, because someone will always be there to pick up what you aren't willing to spend.