That's because those areas have been proven to be problematic, as well as unsuitable for children. That said it's unlikely any kind of game would be deemed that, at most they'd be just like every other entertainment product, a recommended age range yet up to the discretion of the parent, not a law against kids partaking at all.
I dont agree that its been proven.
Just because its a law written mostly run by political asshats who dont have a fucking clue doesnt mean its been proven.
WORK has been described as addictive people.....come on.
Alcohol, Cigs, etc, are pretty much objectively problematic for kids. That's what I figured he was saying anyway...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
At no point in human history where something has been asked to be self regulated, has it ever happened. Can you imagine a meeting where the CEO has to tell his employees to stop it, they are making too much money...lol.
Making too much money isn't a crime or a problem in itself. Our government (in the US) isn't in the habit of stepping in unless there is hard evidence they need to, not in the area of corporate profits, or free enterprise anyway.
When the government says self regulate, what they're really saying is take responsibility for your own life decisions. As well as take responsibility for your own problems (if you have a problem own it, and seek help, if a loved one does help them by convincing them to seek help).
It's highly improbable that stance will change unless real evidence is presented that this is a widespread problem, reddit threads and the like are not hard evidence. It's mostly sensationalizing TBH.
You're saying this (bolded part) as though these practices are not targeting a vulnerable population, children. This isn't a matter of simply gaining some self-control. This is a population that, for a majority, is not yet equipped to handle the predatory marketing being thrown at them.
marketing and gambling is not the same thing though and that is where people are getting confused.
The physical act of gambling is likely just fine, but the manipulation in advertising on the other hand is a different ball game.
Having said all that, I really wish people would STOP using the kids as an excuse to make an argument for something they themselves want to impose on everyone. The whole 'think about the childern' meme is old and lame
So, we should stop thinking about the children, why? Because you're tired of trying to argue against it? It's a valid argument.
we should stop thinking about the childern and start being more honest.
I dont believe for a second anyone making these arguements about 'think about the childern' actually give a damn about that. They want all paid lootboxes gone, peroid, by any means. they dont give a fuck about the kids...lets get real here, MMORPG posters are not a bunch of concern moms,...give me a fucking break
You see i actually give a shit about children and those with unhealthy spending habits because of addiction inducing practices.
Why?
Because personally this problem is not mine. I dont buy lootboxes and i detest them. They should never be introduced. Because of that they are designed to prey on people and manipulate them to throw money at the company at the unhealthy ratios. Because they muddled the game progression.
Sure, children is not the ONLY concern but not everyone is such a tough macho as you on the net. Be a little more self absorbed k?
well I dont believe you.
but that aside, WORK is addictive. what people dont understand and thus use it as a political football to push their agenda is that PEOPLE have addictive personalities and they will be addicted to ANYTHING that gives domaine. but wait for it....domaine a good TV show gives domaine.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
At no point in human history where something has been asked to be self regulated, has it ever happened. Can you imagine a meeting where the CEO has to tell his employees to stop it, they are making too much money...lol.
Making too much money isn't a crime or a problem in itself. Our government (in the US) isn't in the habit of stepping in unless there is hard evidence they need to, not in the area of corporate profits, or free enterprise anyway.
When the government says self regulate, what they're really saying is take responsibility for your own life decisions. As well as take responsibility for your own problems (if you have a problem own it, and seek help, if a loved one does help them by convincing them to seek help).
It's highly improbable that stance will change unless real evidence is presented that this is a widespread problem, reddit threads and the like are not hard evidence. It's mostly sensationalizing TBH.
You're saying this (bolded part) as though these practices are not targeting a vulnerable population, children. This isn't a matter of simply gaining some self-control. This is a population that, for a majority, is not yet equipped to handle the predatory marketing being thrown at them.
As I said in another topic on this I'd have to see hard evidence of kids being the main partaker in this practice before I'd buy into that. Sure it works as a good sympathy angle to heighten the argument... but outside of that...
Kids don't have disposable income in most cases, I can't imagine most parents give their kids unsupervised access to spending on the net, especially in games. An isolated case here and there isn't proof of that. And if the parents are okay with it, who is anyone else to step in there?
We have all kinds of laws and regulations protecting children, despite the parents wishes. Why should this be different?
It shouldn't be. We should have the same types of laws that prevent children from buying items on Amazon, or spending money on mobile games. Why should this be different than other situations where children spend money?
At no point in human history where something has been asked to be self regulated, has it ever happened. Can you imagine a meeting where the CEO has to tell his employees to stop it, they are making too much money...lol.
Making too much money isn't a crime or a problem in itself. Our government (in the US) isn't in the habit of stepping in unless there is hard evidence they need to, not in the area of corporate profits, or free enterprise anyway.
When the government says self regulate, what they're really saying is take responsibility for your own life decisions. As well as take responsibility for your own problems (if you have a problem own it, and seek help, if a loved one does help them by convincing them to seek help).
It's highly improbable that stance will change unless real evidence is presented that this is a widespread problem, reddit threads and the like are not hard evidence. It's mostly sensationalizing TBH.
You're saying this (bolded part) as though these practices are not targeting a vulnerable population, children. This isn't a matter of simply gaining some self-control. This is a population that, for a majority, is not yet equipped to handle the predatory marketing being thrown at them.
As I said in another topic on this I'd have to see hard evidence of kids being the main partaker in this practice before I'd buy into that. Sure it works as a good sympathy angle to heighten the argument... but outside of that...
Kids don't have disposable income in most cases, I can't imagine most parents give their kids unsupervised access to spending on the net, especially in games. An isolated case here and there isn't proof of that. And if the parents are okay with it, who is anyone else to step in there?
We have all kinds of laws and regulations protecting children, despite the parents wishes. Why should this be different?
It shouldn't be. We should have the same types of laws that prevent children from buying items on Amazon, or spending money on mobile games. Why should this be different than other situations where children spend money?
thing is all this crying about the kids the paid for lootboxes are STILL going to be in the games evertyone here is playing. The paid lootboxes will not go away
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It shouldn't be. We should have the same types of laws that prevent children from buying items on Amazon, or spending money on mobile games. Why should this be different than other situations where children spend money?
Technically we do, a child (pre-teen) can't lawfully sign themselves up for such things, isn't the legal age 13 for these types of online accounts?
That said, I'll say again average kids do not have disposable incomes of their own, why people keep bringing them up is mind boggling.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Common sense seems to not be needed here. People are stating this or stating that. I will not argue against people because "prove it" is not a viable response and "regulate yourself" is even worse.
I dislike loot boxes and always will unless free to get other than time. I would prefer to just pick what I am buying. I have also witnessed addictions in multiple people. I can see how the loot boxes can be a problem. I do think something needs to be done by governments.
Addiction is a real issue. Proof is easy and gambling addiction is not defined by receiving a monetary reward as the reward or loss is in the brain of the one addicted. People saying that people should take care of themselves or that they need proof and just sticking their heads in the sand about how the real world works while stating what a rational and logical society would be doing.
Why do you guys act like all children have no parents to regulate such things?
Adding on to that, why do people think most kids don't figure out quick not to waste their money. My son doesn't have an unlimited budget and if he wastes his money he's out of luck until he saves up again.
I sure don't want some guy using Reddit to schedule his legislative priorities either. Maybe he knows how to turn those upvotes into real votes.
My son has a "problem" with chocolate. He once spent $20 of my money at the dollar store on chocolate bars. If he was fat, I might be able to lobby for tighter regulations on selling chocolate to children ;P
Common sense seems to not be needed here. People are stating this or stating that. I will not argue against people because "prove it" is not a viable response and "regulate yourself" is even worse.
I dislike loot boxes and always will unless free to get other than time. I would prefer to just pick what I am buying. I have also witnessed addictions in multiple people. I can see how the loot boxes can be a problem. I do think something needs to be done by governments.
Addiction is a real issue. Proof is easy and gambling addiction is not defined by receiving a monetary reward as the reward or loss is in the brain of the one addicted. People saying that people should take care of themselves or that they need proof and just sticking their heads in the sand about how the real world works while stating what a rational and logical society would be doing.
Common sense seems to not be needed here. Not arguing against people who want proof Proof is easy
Common sense seems to not be needed here. People are stating this or stating that. I will not argue against people because "prove it" is not a viable response and "regulate yourself" is even worse.
I dislike loot boxes and always will unless free to get other than time. I would prefer to just pick what I am buying. I have also witnessed addictions in multiple people. I can see how the loot boxes can be a problem. I do think something needs to be done by governments.
Addiction is a real issue. Proof is easy and gambling addiction is not defined by receiving a monetary reward as the reward or loss is in the brain of the one addicted. People saying that people should take care of themselves or that they need proof and just sticking their heads in the sand about how the real world works while stating what a rational and logical society would be doing.
the solution is to not buy the game in the first place.
I assure you addressing this fantasy of addiction will not get rid of lootboxes in your games.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Gambling addiction is an issue for individuals. Gambling addiction is not an issue for the majority. Unless you can prove externalized risk regulating the majority for the exclusive benefit of the minority is oppression. If someone has a gambling addiction loot boxes are the least of their problems. Also describing loot boxes as a predatory practice is false. Someone being foolish doesn't make the other party in a mutually agreed upon informed transaction a predator.
and on top of that here are a few of common 'addictions' Work begin TV watching Sexual Gratification Internet Use
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
How can a corporation self regulate something when it's their fiduciary responsibility to make as much revenue as possible within the confines of the law and their semantic interpretation of it?
RNG loot boxes = gambling. I don't want to gamble to get ahead in a video game or have my experience throttled as an upsell to gambling. Gaming is my hobby. If I stop buying games that have RNG loot box or any other thinly veiled gambling and it becomes industry standard, I lose my hobby. Therefore "just don't buy it" isn't a good enough answer. It's the argument of a humanoid who lacks basic common sense.
Gambling comes with regulation. If these low brow developers wish to benefit and profit from games of chance they should have go through the same headaches as every other casino, slot machine house or, online gambling site.
If any of us provide games of chance for cash in our homes, police can raid our sh!# for illegal gambling. Our mugshots will be plastered all over the local news.
I want these game developers to be discouraged, I want them bothered and regulated until the practice is frowned upon as not worth the trouble. Then maybe gaming can be a "what you see is what you get" experience again.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
At least Battlefront 2 isn't selling plots of land and overpowered heroes for hundreds to thousands of dollars. And then EA says "its okay, you can earn all this in game" and its fans say "its pay for convenience lololol"
At least EA hasn't dropped that low yet lol.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
At least Battlefront 2 isn't selling plots of land and overpowered heroes for hundreds to thousands of dollars. And then EA says "its okay, you can earn all this in game" and its fans say "its pay for convenience lololol"
At least EA hasn't dropped that low yet lol.
"You can earn this in game, but we are going to make it super annoying and f#$% with you until you give in"
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Self-regulation doesn't work. Loot boxes are nothing more than video gambling and should be treated as such. That includes insuring minors can't gamble and a phone number for addicts to call.
If there are predatory designs intended to trigger addictive behaviors then they run way deeper than "loot crates". A lot of game design is built around an operant conditioning system (skinner box) or similar carrot + chase scenarios. These by nature prey on addictive and obsessive personalities like the completionist.
It's a bit ironic because we're on MMORPG.com talking about predatory carrot-on-a-stick mechanics like it's the first time we've seen them.
Self-regulation doesn't work. Loot boxes are nothing more than video gambling and should be treated as such. That includes insuring minors can't gamble and a phone number for addicts to call.
ok,....
I can go for that just to end this entire stupid fucking conversation.
now what?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Self-regulation doesn't work. Loot boxes are nothing more than video gambling and should be treated as such. That includes insuring minors can't gamble and a phone number for addicts to call.
ok,....
I can go for that just to end this entire stupid fucking conversation.
now what?
Probably should ban video games as the addiction percentage is higher than gambling addiction.
Self-regulation doesn't work. Loot boxes are nothing more than video gambling and should be treated as such. That includes insuring minors can't gamble and a phone number for addicts to call.
ok,....
I can go for that just to end this entire stupid fucking conversation.
now what?
Probably should ban video games as the addiction percentage is higher than gambling addiction.
true
but if we can reach an imaginary compromise. minors cant activate lootboxes and there is a help line for addiction on the loot box page.
ok...done.. everyone is now happy...
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Let's be honest here, most people aren't concerned about people with gambling addictions, they just don't like loot boxes in games. There are far more important things that govt should regulate but this time you care because its about your hobby.
During every half time sports break I get bombarded by commercials for betting sites and online casinos. You would think that there would be more regulations given that it involves actual gambling but they are allowed to hook more addicts all the time.
There are a huge amount of people that ruin theirs and their family's life on those betting sites and online casinos which makes it silly talking about loot boxes and gambling.
Its better if congressmen would focus on the things that matter instead of going for populist nonsense.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Look see,take notice phase,expect another 10_ years before action is actually taken and enforced.
No matter what comes of this recent shotty business practices,expect no enforcement because there are lots of LAZY ass government employees sitting behind a desk doing nothing. Ideas have to be argued for years,then votes influenced by lobbyists,nothing meaningful gets done,just more stuff to read in the news.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Look see,take notice phase,expect another 10_ years before action is actually taken and enforced.
No matter what comes of this recent shotty business practices,expect no enforcement because there are lots of LAZY ass government employees sitting behind a desk doing nothing. Ideas have to be argued for years,then votes influenced by lobbyists,nothing meaningful gets done,just more stuff to read in the news.
THE BEST....people are asking for is the following
1. that minors cant activate lootboxes anymore than they cant activate porn 2. a help line
why do I think that is not really what posters here want even though that is what they are adovating.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
but that aside, WORK is addictive.
what people dont understand and thus use it as a political football to push their agenda is that PEOPLE have addictive personalities and they will be addicted to ANYTHING that gives domaine. but wait for it....domaine a good TV show gives domaine.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
That said, I'll say again average kids do not have disposable incomes of their own, why people keep bringing them up is mind boggling.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Acting like only kids spend money online ...
I dislike loot boxes and always will unless free to get other than time. I would prefer to just pick what I am buying. I have also witnessed addictions in multiple people. I can see how the loot boxes can be a problem. I do think something needs to be done by governments.
Addiction is a real issue. Proof is easy and gambling addiction is not defined by receiving a monetary reward as the reward or loss is in the brain of the one addicted. People saying that people should take care of themselves or that they need proof and just sticking their heads in the sand about how the real world works while stating what a rational and logical society would be doing.
My son has a "problem" with chocolate. He once spent $20 of my money at the dollar store on chocolate bars. If he was fat, I might be able to lobby for tighter regulations on selling chocolate to children ;P
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Not arguing against people who want proof
Proof is easy
provides no proof. GG.
I assure you addressing this fantasy of addiction will not get rid of lootboxes in your games.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Work
begin TV watching
Sexual Gratification
Internet Use
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
RNG loot boxes = gambling. I don't want to gamble to get ahead in a video game or have my experience throttled as an upsell to gambling. Gaming is my hobby. If I stop buying games that have RNG loot box or any other thinly veiled gambling and it becomes industry standard, I lose my hobby. Therefore "just don't buy it" isn't a good enough answer. It's the argument of a humanoid who lacks basic common sense.
Gambling comes with regulation. If these low brow developers wish to benefit and profit from games of chance they should have go through the same headaches as every other casino, slot machine house or, online gambling site.
If any of us provide games of chance for cash in our homes, police can raid our sh!# for illegal gambling. Our mugshots will be plastered all over the local news.
I want these game developers to be discouraged, I want them bothered and regulated until the practice is frowned upon as not worth the trouble. Then maybe gaming can be a "what you see is what you get" experience again.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
At least EA hasn't dropped that low yet lol.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a bit ironic because we're on MMORPG.com talking about predatory carrot-on-a-stick mechanics like it's the first time we've seen them.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I can go for that just to end this entire stupid fucking conversation.
now what?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Probably should ban video games as the addiction percentage is higher than gambling addiction.
but if we can reach an imaginary compromise.
minors cant activate lootboxes and there is a help line for addiction on the loot box page.
ok...done.. everyone is now happy...
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
During every half time sports break I get bombarded by commercials for betting sites and online casinos. You would think that there would be more regulations given that it involves actual gambling but they are allowed to hook more addicts all the time.
There are a huge amount of people that ruin theirs and their family's life on those betting sites and online casinos which makes it silly talking about loot boxes and gambling.
Its better if congressmen would focus on the things that matter instead of going for populist nonsense.
and if all this fighting is about 1. minors should not be able to activate loot boxes and 2. there should be a phone number for addiction on the page.
then lets just fucking do it to end the insanity surely that will make them happy...right?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
No matter what comes of this recent shotty business practices,expect no enforcement because there are lots of LAZY ass government employees sitting behind a desk doing nothing.
Ideas have to be argued for years,then votes influenced by lobbyists,nothing meaningful gets done,just more stuff to read in the news.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
1. that minors cant activate lootboxes anymore than they cant activate porn
2. a help line
why do I think that is not really what posters here want even though that is what they are adovating.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me