Because Shaigh's right. Just thought you should know.
Was that not clear?
I already said I know he is right.
but his point is not on topic.
I find it very telling how you are not able to answer my question. Why? I dont know fear maybe not sure
I didn't read your question. But Shaigh's still right.
yes I know.
I am not following your point
actually I take that back, he is not right. Its the developers responisblity to follow the corporate charter which usually is to make money, doesnt have to be good
Because Shaigh's right. Just thought you should know.
Was that not clear?
I already said I know he is right.
but his point is not on topic.
I find it very telling how you are not able to answer my question. Why? I dont know fear maybe not sure
I didn't read your question. But Shaigh's still right.
yes I know.
I am not following your point
actually I take that back, he is not right. Its the developers responisblity to follow the corporate charter which usually is to make money, doesnt have to be good
That makes you wrong.
its not on topic.
please stay on topic, the question is not related to corporate charters, its related to what your responsibility as a consumer is.
and please understand, I want to keep this thread clean, polite and on topic and I do not want people derailing it..do you understand? so either stay on topic or leave the thread
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Because Shaigh's right. Just thought you should know.
Was that not clear?
I already said I know he is right.
but his point is not on topic.
I find it very telling how you are not able to answer my question. Why? I dont know fear maybe not sure
I didn't read your question. But Shaigh's still right.
yes I know.
I am not following your point
actually I take that back, he is not right. Its the developers responisblity to follow the corporate charter which usually is to make money, doesnt have to be good
That makes you wrong.
its not on topic.
please stay on topic, the question is not related to corporate charters, its related to what your responsibility as a consumer is.
and please understand, I want to keep this thread clean, polite and on topic and I do not want people derailing it..do you understand? so either stay on topic or leave the thread
I never said anything about corporate charters. You did.
Is it 99.9% of the time your responsibility to have a good time in video games? which means becoming an informed consumer, and cutting losses as soon as boredom or frustration comes into play?
is it really a good thing to say 'hey Bob I had no fun this weekend and I choose it that way'
I dont know, at some level yes, some level no
discuss
Yes and No.
The Developers have a responsibility to provide the product they are pitching. If a developer is failing to satisfy the consumers that are their target they are not going to make much money. Most players are not vocal if they are not getting what the Developer promised most of them speak with their wallets and will go elsewhere.
Consumers should research games and make sure they offer a product that fits their play style. If a hardcore PvP enviroment makes a person's skin crawl they shouldn't play Eve Online and complain about getting blown up and losing all their invested time, effort and how miserable they are playing the game etc. By the same token a person who is into hardcore PvP shouldn't complain a theme park game isn't meeting their needs and expectations. Caveat Emptor
I don't think having fun is a responsibility. You either enjoy something or you don't. If you don't, you can rectify that somehow or not (change class, change guild, change in game activities, etc.). If you're still not having fun, quit and find a message board somewhere to bitch about it. Then pick another game.
I do think it's a person's responsibility to know what they are getting into and bring an appropriate attitude when doing anything.
It seems sometimes people just bitch and moan over the most ridiculous things. I suppose one can say "it's not ridiculous to them" and that would be true. But keeping a realistic perspective is important.
Then let me rephrase. "Fun" is not a material responsibility. I have a job, a mortgage, a wife, two kids - that is what I think of as "responsibility." Whether and to what extent I get my jollies killing orcs in Sherwood Forest - maybe on some micro level that is a responsibility, but it's not pinging on my radar.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
If a game bores me I stop playing it but that is hardly a responsibility, just common sense.
If anyone feel they have the spare time to do boring things it is their right to do them. Of course one can wonder why they choose to play boring games where they probably are games around that is fun to them.
I don't think having fun is a responsibility. You either enjoy something or you don't. If you don't, you can rectify that somehow or not (change class, change guild, change in game activities, etc.). If you're still not having fun, quit and find a message board somewhere to bitch about it. Then pick another game.
I do think it's a person's responsibility to know what they are getting into and bring an appropriate attitude when doing anything.
It seems sometimes people just bitch and moan over the most ridiculous things. I suppose one can say "it's not ridiculous to them" and that would be true. But keeping a realistic perspective is important.
Then let me rephrase. "Fun" is not a material responsibility. I have a job, a mortgage, a wife, two kids - that is what I think of as "responsibility." Whether and to what extent I get my jollies killing orcs in Sherwood Forest - maybe on some micro level that is a responsibility, but it's not pinging on my radar.
true....its not the best choice of word on my part however at the same time its how I 'feel' so to speak.
For example, if I buy a game that sucks I feel like I made a bad choice, I feel embarrassed, and I absolutely dont go an advertise to others that I did.
So not sure what the best word would be but I agree responsibility doesnt fit perfectly either.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Is it 99.9% of the time your responsibility to have a good time in video games? which means becoming an informed consumer, and cutting losses as soon as boredom or frustration comes into play?
is it really a good thing to say 'hey Bob I had no fun this weekend and I choose it that way'
I dont know, at some level yes, some level no
discuss
Yes and No.
The Developers have a responsibility to provide the product they are pitching. ,,,
thats not quite right.
All a company needs to do when advertising is not explicitly tell you its black when its red. All they have to do is not lie. If you look at how other products advertise you cant really make the argument that its common place that advertising they are providing the product they are pitching. The 'pitch' as you say is often known to be an alteration of reality that works extra hard to not cross the line of truth. in fact I think that is why its called a pitch
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Is it 99.9% of the time your responsibility to have a good time in video games? which means becoming an informed consumer, and cutting losses as soon as boredom or frustration comes into play?
is it really a good thing to say 'hey Bob I had no fun this weekend and I choose it that way'
I dont know, at some level yes, some level no
discuss
Yes and No.
The Developers have a responsibility to provide the product they are pitching. ,,,
thats not quite right.
All a company needs to do when advertising is not explicitly tell you its black when its red. All they have to do is not lie. If you look at how other products advertise you cant really make the argument that its common place that advertising they are providing the product they are pitching. The 'pitch' as you say is often known to be an alteration of reality that works extra hard to not cross the line of truth. in fact I think that is why its called a pitch
I sure hope that the corporate world never takes your view on things. You defend Sean Murray who did "LIE" on the Colbert show and many other interviews and say you could see other players in the game and yet you say that should not have influenced people to think that you could see other players in the game. When a game company says something on national TV or shows something in their promotional video to suggest something is in their game that it NOT, that is on them not the consumer.
How messed up do you have to be to allow these guys to say and do anything and then not hold them responsible?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Is it 99.9% of the time your responsibility to have a good time in video games? which means becoming an informed consumer, and cutting losses as soon as boredom or frustration comes into play?
is it really a good thing to say 'hey Bob I had no fun this weekend and I choose it that way'
I dont know, at some level yes, some level no
discuss
Yes and No.
The Developers have a responsibility to provide the product they are pitching. ,,,
thats not quite right.
All a company needs to do when advertising is not explicitly tell you its black when its red. All they have to do is not lie. If you look at how other products advertise you cant really make the argument that its common place that advertising they are providing the product they are pitching. The 'pitch' as you say is often known to be an alteration of reality that works extra hard to not cross the line of truth. in fact I think that is why its called a pitch
I sure hope that the corporate world never takes your view on things. You defend Sean Murray who did "LIE" on the Colbert show and many other interviews and say you could see other players in the game and yet you say that should not have influenced people to think that you could see other players in the game. When a game company says something on national TV or shows something in their promotional video to suggest something is in their game that it NOT, that is on them not the consumer.
How messed up do you have to be to allow these guys to say and do anything and then not hold them responsible?
its not my 'view' its how it is in reality.
you think the famous Apple commercial really sold you a woman throwing a hammer? or major social change? or Nike is selling you just do it? or Coke is selling you the World of Peace and Harmony?
The word 'Pitch' does NOT mean 'I am telling you everything above board exactly as it is' the word 'pitch' means a slight obfuscation of the facts in order to make something more attractive then it actually is
Now do I think the entire advertising industry needs to be morally readjusted? absolutely..but as it currently stands a game company is responsible ONLY to not explictly lie.
Also, when a developer or a company or a contractor explains to you the plans for the project its understood that its just that, plans. if the plans do not work out one might be legally liable for damages but its NOT considered a lie.
Promises is for childern who still believe in santa, nobody can promise the future
Post edited by SEANMCAD on
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't think having fun is a responsibility. You either enjoy something or you don't. If you don't, you can rectify that somehow or not (change class, change guild, change in game activities, etc.). If you're still not having fun, quit and find a message board somewhere to bitch about it. Then pick another game.
I do think it's a person's responsibility to know what they are getting into and bring an appropriate attitude when doing anything.
It seems sometimes people just bitch and moan over the most ridiculous things. I suppose one can say "it's not ridiculous to them" and that would be true. But keeping a realistic perspective is important.
Then let me rephrase. "Fun" is not a material responsibility. I have a job, a mortgage, a wife, two kids - that is what I think of as "responsibility." Whether and to what extent I get my jollies killing orcs in Sherwood Forest - maybe on some micro level that is a
Sure, but responsibility has several meanings. "yes" having a wife, kids, mortgage" whatever is a set of responsibilities but it also means making choices without needing someone else's approval.
A person is responsible for their well being, to take care of themselves.
It doesn't have to be so dire as always putting the best food inside of you and making sure you get plenty of exercise.
If I go out for a night on the town I expect to have a good time. I'm responsible for my own good time. If I'm not in a good mood and can't get into a good mood (rarely) then I need to recognize that fact, especially if I'm going with other people. No sense in dragging them down.
I'm responsible for going to places I'm going to enjoy or at least being in the right mindset where, if I'm trying something out for the first time, I'll go in with an open mind. If I can't go in with an open mind I really shouldn't be going.
I'm responsible for not having too much to drink as that's just going to make me tired.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I don't think having fun is a responsibility. You either enjoy something or you don't. If you don't, you can rectify that somehow or not (change class, change guild, change in game activities, etc.). If you're still not having fun, quit and find a message board somewhere to bitch about it. Then pick another game.
I do think it's a person's responsibility to know what they are getting into and bring an appropriate attitude when doing anything.
It seems sometimes people just bitch and moan over the most ridiculous things. I suppose one can say "it's not ridiculous to them" and that would be true. But keeping a realistic perspective is important.
Then let me rephrase. "Fun" is not a material responsibility. I have a job, a mortgage, a wife, two kids - that is what I think of as "responsibility." Whether and to what extent I get my jollies killing orcs in Sherwood Forest - maybe on some micro level that is a
Sure, but responsibility has several meanings. "yes" having a wife, kids, mortgage" whatever is a set of responsibilities but it also means making choices without needing someone else's approval.
A person is responsible for their well being, to take care of themselves.
It doesn't have to be so dire as always putting the best food inside of you and making sure you get plenty of exercise.
If I go out for a night on the town I expect to have a good time. I'm responsible for my own good time. If I'm not in a good mood and can't get into a good mood (rarely) then I need to recognize that fact, especially if I'm going with other people. No sense in dragging them down.
I'm responsible for going to places I'm going to enjoy or at least being in the right mindset where, if I'm trying something out for the first time, I'll go in with an open mind. If I can't go in with an open mind I really shouldn't be going.
I'm responsible for not having too much to drink as that's just going to make me tired.
I think maybe he views responsibly is something where the consequences of inaction is delivered by a 3rd party rather than the circumstances of nature and cause and effect.
if that makes sense. I dont agree with said view but I think that is where they are coming from
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't think having fun is a responsibility. You either enjoy something or you don't. If you don't, you can rectify that somehow or not (change class, change guild, change in game activities, etc.). If you're still not having fun, quit and find a message board somewhere to bitch about it. Then pick another game.
I do think it's a person's responsibility to know what they are getting into and bring an appropriate attitude when doing anything.
It seems sometimes people just bitch and moan over the most ridiculous things. I suppose one can say "it's not ridiculous to them" and that would be true. But keeping a realistic perspective is important.
Then let me rephrase. "Fun" is not a material responsibility. I have a job, a mortgage, a wife, two kids - that is what I think of as "responsibility." Whether and to what extent I get my jollies killing orcs in Sherwood Forest - maybe on some micro level that is a
Sure, but responsibility has several meanings. "yes" having a wife, kids, mortgage" whatever is a set of responsibilities but it also means making choices without needing someone else's approval.
A person is responsible for their well being, to take care of themselves.
It doesn't have to be so dire as always putting the best food inside of you and making sure you get plenty of exercise.
If I go out for a night on the town I expect to have a good time. I'm responsible for my own good time. If I'm not in a good mood and can't get into a good mood (rarely) then I need to recognize that fact, especially if I'm going with other people. No sense in dragging them down.
I'm responsible for going to places I'm going to enjoy or at least being in the right mindset where, if I'm trying something out for the first time, I'll go in with an open mind. If I can't go in with an open mind I really shouldn't be going.
I'm responsible for not having too much to drink as that's just going to make me tired.
I think maybe he views responsibly is something where the consequences of inaction is delivered by a 3rd party rather than the circumstances of nature and cause and effect.
if that makes sense. I dont agree with said view but I think that is where they are coming from
That's fine but the word encompasses so much more.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It is 100% a developers responsibility to make a game fun if they want me to pay for it and play. Now what equates to fun is entirely dependent on what type of game they are making, but it is still their responsibility. If a game isn't fun I just don't buy/play it.
It is 100% a developers responsibility to make a game fun if they want me to pay for it and play. Now what equates to fun is entirely dependent on what type of game they are making, but it is still their responsibility. If a game isn't fun I just don't buy/play it.
wow!
ok I see the inverse of what your saying but wow! I have no counter other than...wow really
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't think having fun is a responsibility. You either enjoy something or you don't. If you don't, you can rectify that somehow or not (change class, change guild, change in game activities, etc.). If you're still not having fun, quit and find a message board somewhere to bitch about it. Then pick another game.
I do think it's a person's responsibility to know what they are getting into and bring an appropriate attitude when doing anything.
It seems sometimes people just bitch and moan over the most ridiculous things. I suppose one can say "it's not ridiculous to them" and that would be true. But keeping a realistic perspective is important.
Then let me rephrase. "Fun" is not a material responsibility. I have a job, a mortgage, a wife, two kids - that is what I think of as "responsibility." Whether and to what extent I get my jollies killing orcs in Sherwood Forest - maybe on some micro level that is a
Sure, but responsibility has several meanings. "yes" having a wife, kids, mortgage" whatever is a set of responsibilities but it also means making choices without needing someone else's approval.
A person is responsible for their well being, to take care of themselves.
It doesn't have to be so dire as always putting the best food inside of you and making sure you get plenty of exercise.
If I go out for a night on the town I expect to have a good time. I'm responsible for my own good time. If I'm not in a good mood and can't get into a good mood (rarely) then I need to recognize that fact, especially if I'm going with other people. No sense in dragging them down.
I'm responsible for going to places I'm going to enjoy or at least being in the right mindset where, if I'm trying something out for the first time, I'll go in with an open mind. If I can't go in with an open mind I really shouldn't be going.
I'm responsible for not having too much to drink as that's just going to make me tired.
I think maybe he views responsibly is something where the consequences of inaction is delivered by a 3rd party rather than the circumstances of nature and cause and effect.
if that makes sense. I dont agree with said view but I think that is where they are coming from
That's fine but the word encompasses so much more.
agreed...it just a side note really
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It is 100% a developers responsibility to make a game fun if they want me to pay for it and play. Now what equates to fun is entirely dependent on what type of game they are making, but it is still their responsibility. If a game isn't fun I just don't buy/play it.
wow!
ok I see the inverse of what your saying but wow! I have no counter other than...wow really
Just to add a little more specificity..
I find ARK extremely fun even though there is a lack of what most people would call "content", quests, story etc... But the world the devs created and my ability to build whatever I want and run around taming dinos makes it very fun for me.
At the same time I find ESO extremely fun. I can't build there or tame things or really do anything that isn't scripted by the developers. But what they have scripted I thoroughly enjoy.
I also find the new Battlefront 2 to be an awesome game but can't stand Call of Duty games even though they are very similar in game mechanics.
All of those games get my time and money even though they couldn't be more different.
Is it 99.9% of the time your responsibility to have a good time in video games? which means becoming an informed consumer, and cutting losses as soon as boredom or frustration comes into play?
is it really a good thing to say 'hey Bob I had no fun this weekend and I choose it that way'
I dont know, at some level yes, some level no
discuss
Yes and No.
The Developers have a responsibility to provide the product they are pitching. ,,,
thats not quite right.
All a company needs to do when advertising is not explicitly tell you its black when its red. All they have to do is not lie. If you look at how other products advertise you cant really make the argument that its common place that advertising they are providing the product they are pitching. The 'pitch' as you say is often known to be an alteration of reality that works extra hard to not cross the line of truth. in fact I think that is why its called a pitch
I sure hope that the corporate world never takes your view on things. You defend Sean Murray who did "LIE" on the Colbert show and many other interviews and say you could see other players in the game and yet you say that should not have influenced people to think that you could see other players in the game. When a game company says something on national TV or shows something in their promotional video to suggest something is in their game that it NOT, that is on them not the consumer.
How messed up do you have to be to allow these guys to say and do anything and then not hold them responsible?
its not my 'view' its how it is in reality.
you think the famous Apple commercial really sold you a woman throwing a hammer? or major social change? or Nike is selling you just do it? or Coke is selling you the World of Peace and Harmony?
The word 'Pitch' does NOT mean 'I am telling you everything above board exactly as it is' the word 'pitch' means a slight obfuscation of the facts in order to make something more attractive then it actually is
Now do I think the entire advertising industry needs to be morally readjusted? absolutely..but as it currently stands a game company is responsible ONLY to not explictly lie.
Also, when a developer or a company or a contractor explains to you the plans for the project its understood that its just that, plans. if the plans do not work out one might be legally liable for damages but its NOT considered a lie.
Promises is for childern who still believe in santa, nobody can promise the future
Did Apple tell you you would get the woman throwing a hammer? I cant tell if you are honestly that dense or you are just trolling.
Sean Murray specifically said "Multiplayer would be in the game" he didnt hint at it, he didnt imply it, he didnt show a video of someone throwing a hammer to imply multiplayer. He SAID it would be in the game.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Is it 99.9% of the time your responsibility to have a good time in video games? which means becoming an informed consumer, and cutting losses as soon as boredom or frustration comes into play?
is it really a good thing to say 'hey Bob I had no fun this weekend and I choose it that way'
I dont know, at some level yes, some level no
discuss
Yes and No.
The Developers have a responsibility to provide the product they are pitching. ,,,
thats not quite right.
All a company needs to do when advertising is not explicitly tell you its black when its red. All they have to do is not lie. If you look at how other products advertise you cant really make the argument that its common place that advertising they are providing the product they are pitching. The 'pitch' as you say is often known to be an alteration of reality that works extra hard to not cross the line of truth. in fact I think that is why its called a pitch
I sure hope that the corporate world never takes your view on things. You defend Sean Murray who did "LIE" on the Colbert show and many other interviews and say you could see other players in the game and yet you say that should not have influenced people to think that you could see other players in the game. When a game company says something on national TV or shows something in their promotional video to suggest something is in their game that it NOT, that is on them not the consumer.
How messed up do you have to be to allow these guys to say and do anything and then not hold them responsible?
its not my 'view' its how it is in reality.
you think the famous Apple commercial really sold you a woman throwing a hammer? or major social change? or Nike is selling you just do it? or Coke is selling you the World of Peace and Harmony?
The word 'Pitch' does NOT mean 'I am telling you everything above board exactly as it is' the word 'pitch' means a slight obfuscation of the facts in order to make something more attractive then it actually is
Now do I think the entire advertising industry needs to be morally readjusted? absolutely..but as it currently stands a game company is responsible ONLY to not explictly lie.
Also, when a developer or a company or a contractor explains to you the plans for the project its understood that its just that, plans. if the plans do not work out one might be legally liable for damages but its NOT considered a lie.
Promises is for childern who still believe in santa, nobody can promise the future
Did Apple tell you you would get the woman throwing a hammer? I cant tell if you are honestly that dense or you are just trolling.
Sean Murray specifically said "Multiplayer would be in the game" he didnt hint at it, he didnt imply it, he didnt show a video of someone throwing a hammer to imply multiplayer. He SAID it would be in the game.
ok a two things.
1. First off we were talking about the word 'pitch' the word 'pitch' pretty much by its definition allows for obfuscation. Advertising allowed for Obfuscation, so no...a company is not required to deliver based on 'the pitch' they are required to just NOT LIE and there is a different. I am all for taking down the entire marketing industry and holding them accountable but for now, that is how it works.
2. Sean was talking about what they were working on. Like when you build a house and you say 'here are the things that will be in that house' if those things are not in the house you didnt lie as a default because nobody can predict the future. Things happen. ANY statement ANY business makes about a project they are CURRENTLY working on and is NOT FINISHED...is subject to change. The only point that matters is the state of the product when it offically goes up for sale NOT before. In no other industry is it assumed that what a company says about the project they are working on is set in stone and any deviation from it is a lie...that is bullshit.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Is it 99.9% of the time your responsibility to have a good time in video games? which means becoming an informed consumer, and cutting losses as soon as boredom or frustration comes into play?
is it really a good thing to say 'hey Bob I had no fun this weekend and I choose it that way'
I dont know, at some level yes, some level no
discuss
Yes and No.
The Developers have a responsibility to provide the product they are pitching. ,,,
thats not quite right.
All a company needs to do when advertising is not explicitly tell you its black when its red. All they have to do is not lie. If you look at how other products advertise you cant really make the argument that its common place that advertising they are providing the product they are pitching. The 'pitch' as you say is often known to be an alteration of reality that works extra hard to not cross the line of truth. in fact I think that is why its called a pitch
I sure hope that the corporate world never takes your view on things. You defend Sean Murray who did "LIE" on the Colbert show and many other interviews and say you could see other players in the game and yet you say that should not have influenced people to think that you could see other players in the game. When a game company says something on national TV or shows something in their promotional video to suggest something is in their game that it NOT, that is on them not the consumer.
How messed up do you have to be to allow these guys to say and do anything and then not hold them responsible?
its not my 'view' its how it is in reality.
you think the famous Apple commercial really sold you a woman throwing a hammer? or major social change? or Nike is selling you just do it? or Coke is selling you the World of Peace and Harmony?
The word 'Pitch' does NOT mean 'I am telling you everything above board exactly as it is' the word 'pitch' means a slight obfuscation of the facts in order to make something more attractive then it actually is
Now do I think the entire advertising industry needs to be morally readjusted? absolutely..but as it currently stands a game company is responsible ONLY to not explictly lie.
Also, when a developer or a company or a contractor explains to you the plans for the project its understood that its just that, plans. if the plans do not work out one might be legally liable for damages but its NOT considered a lie.
Promises is for childern who still believe in santa, nobody can promise the future
Did Apple tell you you would get the woman throwing a hammer? I cant tell if you are honestly that dense or you are just trolling.
Sean Murray specifically said "Multiplayer would be in the game" he didnt hint at it, he didnt imply it, he didnt show a video of someone throwing a hammer to imply multiplayer. He SAID it would be in the game.
ok a two things.
1. First off we were talking about the word 'pitch' the word 'pitch' pretty much by its definition allows for obfuscation. Advertising allowed for Obfuscation, so no...a company is not required to deliver based on 'the pitch' they are required to just NOT LIE and there is a different. I am all for taking down the entire marketing industry and holding them accountable but for now, that is how it works.
2. Sean was talking about what they were working on. Like when you build a house and you say 'here are the things that will be in that house' if those things are not in the house you didnt lie as a default because nobody can predict the future. Things happen. ANY statement ANY business makes about a project they are CURRENTLY working on and is NOT FINISHED...is subject to change. The only point that matters is the state of the product when it offically goes up for sale NOT before. In no other industry is it assumed that what a company says about the project they are working on is set in stone and any deviation from it is a lie...that is bullshit.
You and I were never talking about the word pitch, you injected that to make a weak point that failed.
Sean was not talking about what they were working on. Have you even watched any of the interviews?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
You and I were never talking about the word pitch, you injected that to make a weak point that failed.
Sean was not talking about what they were working on. Have you even watched any of the interviews?
you interjected your hard on about NMS into an ongoing conversation about the word 'pitch' and you just responded to what I was saying in that context.
but regarding what you want to talk about (which is not what I was talking about) NOBODY can predict the future.
Any claim any company makes about any project in any circumstance regarding how the outcome WILL be is NOT a promise, its a guidepost and if it doesnt happen its not a lie by default. I MIGHT be a lie, but there are a lot of other possiblities.
Only children believe in Santa and promises can not be affected by the fucking FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He MIGHT have lied, but because its in the FUTURE..it can be many things.
The only part that matters is what the company says is in the game at the point its up for released sale.
jesus fucking christ!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think the problem with your main view @SEANMCAD is that you see playing a bad game or watching a bad movie as a failure in life. You also think that a single act over a whole weekend renders the whole weekend as a failure. That is a sorry and sad way to be living; to consider fleeting moments of discovery as potential life affirming choices.
That is a serious issue that you should be receiving counselling and support for. I'm really not just trying to antagonise you. If you really feel this strongly about every choice you make and get embarrassed if you watch a bad movie, you need help.
You need to realise you are not a robot that needs to run on strict binary coding and the only options out there are either yes or no, good or bad and pass or fail. You may have seen a bad movie but the meal before it may have been great, getting out of the house might have been good if you'd been stuck in there all week and whoever you went with might have made the whole experience enjoyable.
You can still call it a shit movie and have really enjoyed your weekend. You can still enjoy watching a shit movie too because you might have just been 'in the mood'. You can still call it a shit movie after you researched it and decided it was something you might enjoy, but didn't.
It's human nature to explore and discover things. You can only get so far with everyone else's information, views and opinions. To really know anything about anything, you need to know it yourself... not know what other people know, there's a real difference in authenticity.
Me? I like to avoid talking shit to people as much as possible. Meaning, I will try something before having an opinion on it. I won't regurgitate other people's opinions as my own either. I'm also a massive movie buff, have studied film journalism and I watch every single movie where the blurb even slightly interests me. I discover them instead of finding them. You know why? Because I've watched movies with an IMDB rating of 3 that I thought were absolutely groundbreaking and I've watched movies with a rating of 9 that I thought were garbage. There was no other way of knowing those outcomes before watching the movies because the 'research' would have contradicted my actual experience. In other words, the research is unreliable and subjective and trying to become informed can often result in the opposite. The same applies to games or anything else in life.
Your systematic approach towards living is an error in your programming.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I think the problem with your main view @SEANMCAD is that you see playing a bad game or watching a bad movie as a failure in life. ...
no that is WAY over reading it.
I want my free time to be enjoyable. How best can I make that happen? well the best way I can make that happen is by taking action on what I can control and not sit around and cry about what I can not control.
I cant control a developers output, I cant have a bad gaming experience, cry about, continue to play and blame the developer for it as a solution to my state. doing that is not going to make the developer go 'oh holy blaz! SEANMCAD is upset about something I coded let me run out and fix it for him'
no i need to consider what I can control, what I can control is me. I can control me stopping playing that game, and then find somethign that is more fun.
THat is called sanity
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Is it 99.9% of the time your responsibility to have a good time in video games? which means becoming an informed consumer, and cutting losses as soon as boredom or frustration comes into play?
is it really a good thing to say 'hey Bob I had no fun this weekend and I choose it that way'
I dont know, at some level yes, some level no
discuss
Yes and No.
The Developers have a responsibility to provide the product they are pitching. ,,,
thats not quite right.
All a company needs to do when advertising is not explicitly tell you its black when its red. All they have to do is not lie. If you look at how other products advertise you cant really make the argument that its common place that advertising they are providing the product they are pitching. The 'pitch' as you say is often known to be an alteration of reality that works extra hard to not cross the line of truth. in fact I think that is why its called a pitch
I sure hope that the corporate world never takes your view on things. You defend Sean Murray who did "LIE" on the Colbert show and many other interviews and say you could see other players in the game and yet you say that should not have influenced people to think that you could see other players in the game. When a game company says something on national TV or shows something in their promotional video to suggest something is in their game that it NOT, that is on them not the consumer.
How messed up do you have to be to allow these guys to say and do anything and then not hold them responsible?
its not my 'view' its how it is in reality.
you think the famous Apple commercial really sold you a woman throwing a hammer? or major social change? or Nike is selling you just do it? or Coke is selling you the World of Peace and Harmony?
The word 'Pitch' does NOT mean 'I am telling you everything above board exactly as it is' the word 'pitch' means a slight obfuscation of the facts in order to make something more attractive then it actually is
Now do I think the entire advertising industry needs to be morally readjusted? absolutely..but as it currently stands a game company is responsible ONLY to not explictly lie.
Also, when a developer or a company or a contractor explains to you the plans for the project its understood that its just that, plans. if the plans do not work out one might be legally liable for damages but its NOT considered a lie.
Promises is for childern who still believe in santa, nobody can promise the future
Did Apple tell you you would get the woman throwing a hammer? I cant tell if you are honestly that dense or you are just trolling.
Sean Murray specifically said "Multiplayer would be in the game" he didnt hint at it, he didnt imply it, he didnt show a video of someone throwing a hammer to imply multiplayer. He SAID it would be in the game.
Comments
please stay on topic, the question is not related to corporate charters, its related to what your responsibility as a consumer is.
and please understand, I want to keep this thread clean, polite and on topic and I do not want people derailing it..do you understand? so either stay on topic or leave the thread
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Yes and No.
The Developers have a responsibility to provide the product they are pitching. If a developer is failing to satisfy the consumers that are their target they are not going to make much money. Most players are not vocal if they are not getting what the Developer promised most of them speak with their wallets and will go elsewhere.
Consumers should research games and make sure they offer a product that fits their play style. If a hardcore PvP enviroment makes a person's skin crawl they shouldn't play Eve Online and complain about getting blown up and losing all their invested time, effort and how miserable they are playing the game etc. By the same token a person who is into hardcore PvP shouldn't complain a theme park game isn't meeting their needs and expectations. Caveat Emptor
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
If anyone feel they have the spare time to do boring things it is their right to do them. Of course one can wonder why they choose to play boring games where they probably are games around that is fun to them.
For example, if I buy a game that sucks I feel like I made a bad choice, I feel embarrassed, and I absolutely dont go an advertise to others that I did.
So not sure what the best word would be but I agree responsibility doesnt fit perfectly either.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
All a company needs to do when advertising is not explicitly tell you its black when its red. All they have to do is not lie. If you look at how other products advertise you cant really make the argument that its common place that advertising they are providing the product they are pitching. The 'pitch' as you say is often known to be an alteration of reality that works extra hard to not cross the line of truth. in fact I think that is why its called a pitch
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
How messed up do you have to be to allow these guys to say and do anything and then not hold them responsible?
you think the famous Apple commercial really sold you a woman throwing a hammer? or major social change? or Nike is selling you just do it? or Coke is selling you the World of Peace and Harmony?
The word 'Pitch' does NOT mean 'I am telling you everything above board exactly as it is'
the word 'pitch' means a slight obfuscation of the facts in order to make something more attractive then it actually is
Now do I think the entire advertising industry needs to be morally readjusted? absolutely..but as it currently stands a game company is responsible ONLY to not explictly lie.
Also, when a developer or a company or a contractor explains to you the plans for the project its understood that its just that, plans. if the plans do not work out one might be legally liable for damages but its NOT considered a lie.
Promises is for childern who still believe in santa, nobody can promise the future
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
A person is responsible for their well being, to take care of themselves.
It doesn't have to be so dire as always putting the best food inside of you and making sure you get plenty of exercise.
If I go out for a night on the town I expect to have a good time. I'm responsible for my own good time. If I'm not in a good mood and can't get into a good mood (rarely) then I need to recognize that fact, especially if I'm going with other people. No sense in dragging them down.
I'm responsible for going to places I'm going to enjoy or at least being in the right mindset where, if I'm trying something out for the first time, I'll go in with an open mind. If I can't go in with an open mind I really shouldn't be going.
I'm responsible for not having too much to drink as that's just going to make me tired.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
if that makes sense. I dont agree with said view but I think that is where they are coming from
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
ok I see the inverse of what your saying but wow!
I have no counter other than...wow really
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I find ARK extremely fun even though there is a lack of what most people would call "content", quests, story etc... But the world the devs created and my ability to build whatever I want and run around taming dinos makes it very fun for me.
At the same time I find ESO extremely fun. I can't build there or tame things or really do anything that isn't scripted by the developers. But what they have scripted I thoroughly enjoy.
I also find the new Battlefront 2 to be an awesome game but can't stand Call of Duty games even though they are very similar in game mechanics.
All of those games get my time and money even though they couldn't be more different.
Sean Murray specifically said "Multiplayer would be in the game" he didnt hint at it, he didnt imply it, he didnt show a video of someone throwing a hammer to imply multiplayer. He SAID it would be in the game.
1. First off we were talking about the word 'pitch' the word 'pitch' pretty much by its definition allows for obfuscation. Advertising allowed for Obfuscation, so no...a company is not required to deliver based on 'the pitch' they are required to just NOT LIE and there is a different. I am all for taking down the entire marketing industry and holding them accountable but for now, that is how it works.
2. Sean was talking about what they were working on. Like when you build a house and you say 'here are the things that will be in that house' if those things are not in the house you didnt lie as a default because nobody can predict the future. Things happen. ANY statement ANY business makes about a project they are CURRENTLY working on and is NOT FINISHED...is subject to change. The only point that matters is the state of the product when it offically goes up for sale NOT before.
In no other industry is it assumed that what a company says about the project they are working on is set in stone and any deviation from it is a lie...that is bullshit.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Sean was not talking about what they were working on. Have you even watched any of the interviews?
but regarding what you want to talk about (which is not what I was talking about) NOBODY can predict the future.
Any claim any company makes about any project in any circumstance regarding how the outcome WILL be is NOT a promise, its a guidepost and if it doesnt happen its not a lie by default. I MIGHT be a lie, but there are a lot of other possiblities.
Only children believe in Santa and promises can not be affected by the fucking FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He MIGHT have lied, but because its in the FUTURE..it can be many things.
The only part that matters is what the company says is in the game at the point its up for released sale.
jesus fucking christ!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
That is a serious issue that you should be receiving counselling and support for. I'm really not just trying to antagonise you. If you really feel this strongly about every choice you make and get embarrassed if you watch a bad movie, you need help.
You need to realise you are not a robot that needs to run on strict binary coding and the only options out there are either yes or no, good or bad and pass or fail. You may have seen a bad movie but the meal before it may have been great, getting out of the house might have been good if you'd been stuck in there all week and whoever you went with might have made the whole experience enjoyable.
You can still call it a shit movie and have really enjoyed your weekend. You can still enjoy watching a shit movie too because you might have just been 'in the mood'. You can still call it a shit movie after you researched it and decided it was something you might enjoy, but didn't.
It's human nature to explore and discover things. You can only get so far with everyone else's information, views and opinions. To really know anything about anything, you need to know it yourself... not know what other people know, there's a real difference in authenticity.
Me? I like to avoid talking shit to people as much as possible. Meaning, I will try something before having an opinion on it. I won't regurgitate other people's opinions as my own either. I'm also a massive movie buff, have studied film journalism and I watch every single movie where the blurb even slightly interests me. I discover them instead of finding them. You know why? Because I've watched movies with an IMDB rating of 3 that I thought were absolutely groundbreaking and I've watched movies with a rating of 9 that I thought were garbage. There was no other way of knowing those outcomes before watching the movies because the 'research' would have contradicted my actual experience. In other words, the research is unreliable and subjective and trying to become informed can often result in the opposite. The same applies to games or anything else in life.
Your systematic approach towards living is an error in your programming.
I want my free time to be enjoyable. How best can I make that happen? well the best way I can make that happen is by taking action on what I can control and not sit around and cry about what I can not control. I cant control a developers output, I cant have a bad gaming experience, cry about, continue to play and blame the developer for it as a solution to my state. doing that is not going to make the developer go 'oh holy blaz! SEANMCAD is upset about something I coded let me run out and fix it for him' no i need to consider what I can control, what I can control is me. I can control me stopping playing that game, and then find somethign that is more fun. THat is called sanity
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I am personally responsible for what I can control.
I can control my purchasing decisions, I can not control a developer.
So people can either take control of their experience, or they can not and sit and cry about it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me