I think they wanted to grow beyond just making ships and saw ground vehicles as the next step. Who knows, perhaps they're building up to a world of tanks kind of combat zone with team ratings. I can see going from rovers to tanks as a next step kind of thing. After all a tank is a rover with more armor, treads, and larger guns.
CIG pretty much has a set pattern they seem to be sticking to. Coming out of left field with an unexpected surprise concept during major live presentations. As noted by some always something that was mentioned in the past. Just not talked about or included in the schedules until after presented, as the latest thing.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
So, again I ask, sincerely: How do tanks fit into the scope of Star Citizen?
I understand the game has changed (rather significantly) from the original Kickstarter, but I am genuinely interested in a space sim game with out-of-ship exploration. Tanks, land claims, and I'm assuming (eventually) other land-based sales just seem to be detracting from the whole space sim aspect of the game that was originally pitched. I can understand having land vehicles to a certain extent, for getting around the planets you want to explore, but tanks don't really make much since unless they're looking to put a lot more focus on land based content such as large scale territorial fights (ala Planetside).
So, I'm not really sure how much the scope has changed since the original Kickstarter; just looking for clarification.
In later stretch goals conquerable locations have been added to the list of objectives. This happened some years ago. Players can fight over possession of these locations. Space stations have been listed first. One can do this aready in the Alpha (Security Post Kareah). This list has later been extended to ground operations in another stretch goal.
Another stretch goal was about procedural generation, especially w.r.t. planetary environments.
The list of stretch goals added some 80 more points up to 2 years after the end of the Kickstarter campaign in Nov 2012. CIG then stopped offering stretch goals, against the wishes of the community which wanted even more stretch goals.
With those stretch goals in mind and a highly successful PG development CIG had put some effort into planetary bases and all related materials (think: Ursa rover, hover bikes etc.) to fulfill the points promised in these stretch goals. Land claims, forge ships to craft and place bases and ground vehicles (scout type jeeps and tracked type tanks) are just more aspects of this planetary aspect of the game.
So ... contrary to what some people claim w.r.t. scope creep .... CIG is doing exactly what they promised to their backers in the stretch goals.
Have fun
You need to learn what the word "Exactly" means. "Exactly" would mean that they would have stated that there were going to be tanks in the game. THAT is "exact". If it doesn't state that, then no matter what's implied, it's not "exact".
Really, the fact that you needed 5 paragraphs to explain how it's implied that it's should be there kinda proves the opposite of exact.
So, again I ask, sincerely: How do tanks fit into the scope of Star Citizen?
I understand the game has changed (rather significantly) from the original Kickstarter, but I am genuinely interested in a space sim game with out-of-ship exploration. Tanks, land claims, and I'm assuming (eventually) other land-based sales just seem to be detracting from the whole space sim aspect of the game that was originally pitched. I can understand having land vehicles to a certain extent, for getting around the planets you want to explore, but tanks don't really make much since unless they're looking to put a lot more focus on land based content such as large scale territorial fights (ala Planetside).
So, I'm not really sure how much the scope has changed since the original Kickstarter; just looking for clarification.
I am really most interested in the space sim aspect, but I do love the idea of a seamless universe. I'm also a big Chris Roberts fan. That being said, I think that where this game will suffer is from a lack of focus and size of scope. In the end, I feel like they will probably deliver something massive that's just alright. If you focus on delivering a high quality experience with a smaller scope, you can exapnd to offer these other features later, and even advertise them as "Free Expansions" if you really wanted to. I've said for a while now that Elite was much better at scoping. They sold their additional content, but whatever, they also have a game out there in the market.
A year or so ago they were talking about MVPs and I know people got all up in arms about that term, but I think that people should now be able to see that "Minimum" doesn't necessarily mean what they think it does. It's actually a pairing of the M and V and understanding what that scope is. That's the part I struggle with, I think.
In the end, I think that the larger question here is whether anyone will care enough when it does release to actually play the game. That's probably the reason for these new levels of monetization, too. We're starting to see that these games which are in longer development or EA cycles simply cannot maintain their initial hype through to release. Thankfully for CIG, they've got a whole universe to sell, so I don't think they're running out of options any time soon.
So, again I ask, sincerely: How do tanks fit into the scope of Star Citizen?
I understand the game has changed (rather significantly) from the original Kickstarter, but I am genuinely interested in a space sim game with out-of-ship exploration. Tanks, land claims, and I'm assuming (eventually) other land-based sales just seem to be detracting from the whole space sim aspect of the game that was originally pitched. I can understand having land vehicles to a certain extent, for getting around the planets you want to explore, but tanks don't really make much since unless they're looking to put a lot more focus on land based content such as large scale territorial fights (ala Planetside).
So, I'm not really sure how much the scope has changed since the original Kickstarter; just looking for clarification.
In later stretch goals conquerable locations have been added to the list of objectives. This happened some years ago. Players can fight over possession of these locations. Space stations have been listed first. One can do this aready in the Alpha (Security Post Kareah). This list has later been extended to ground operations in another stretch goal.
Another stretch goal was about procedural generation, especially w.r.t. planetary environments.
The list of stretch goals added some 80 more points up to 2 years after the end of the Kickstarter campaign in Nov 2012. CIG then stopped offering stretch goals, against the wishes of the community which wanted even more stretch goals.
With those stretch goals in mind and a highly successful PG development CIG had put some effort into planetary bases and all related materials (think: Ursa rover, hover bikes etc.) to fulfill the points promised in these stretch goals. Land claims, forge ships to craft and place bases and ground vehicles (scout type jeeps and tracked type tanks) are just more aspects of this planetary aspect of the game.
So ... contrary to what some people claim w.r.t. scope creep .... CIG is doing exactly what they promised to their backers in the stretch goals.
Have fun
I believe the above is a perfect example quotes being taken completely out of context to fit the current narrative. The stretch goals mentioned are $19M and $20M which state:
Manage Space Stations – Players will compete to own and operate a limited number of space stations across the galaxy.
and
First person combat on select lawless planets. Don’t just battle on space stations and platforms… take the fight to the ground!
The latter obviously meaning CoD style gameplay, nothing more.
Fun thing is ... i have met many backers ... i have met quite a few devs ... and the desperation that @rodarin speaks of is nowhere to be seen.
People are hard at work, progress is being made, the task is not a trivial one, delays happen. Basically everyone i know (backers and devs) are pretty cool about it. We all would like to see it finished sooner rather than later. But we all prefer quality over a rush-job.
Maybe some people cannot understand that attitude. Cannot be helped. "The caravan goes on" and will reach its destination.
Have fun
When will the caravan reach its destination? The question becomes increasingly important with each passing day.
How you can continue to support them without even a glimmer of info regarding this baffles me.
But then again so does playing games without progression in place, playing for fun is beyond me, even with "friends."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
April: new ship, Banu Defender May: new ship, Aegis Eclipse June: new ship, Aopoa Nox July: new vehicle, Cyclone August: new ship, Constellation Aquila September: new ship, Origin X1 October: new ship, Outlands Pioneer new feature: land claims new feature: base building new feature: attack and defense of player build bases November: new ship, Anvil Hawk new ship: Aegis Hammerhead December: new vehicle: Nova Battle Tank
I wonder how long it takes Star Citizen supporters to realize that RSI is selling new stuff at much faster pace than they could possibly develop it.
When will the caravan reach its destination? The question becomes increasingly important with each passing day.
How you can continue to support them without even a glimmer of info regarding this baffles me.
But then again so does playing games without progression in place, playing for fun is beyond me, even with "friends."
I - personally - do not care when it reaches its destination. I only care about an excellent, well tested, fun game. I am a fan of the "Its done when its done" philosophy. I have hundreds of games to play until Star Citizen launches.
Yes, it seems when it comes to Bartle type gamers we are very different. I am an Explorer-Socializer .... my Killer and Achiever ratings are lower then the first two. I know competitive play ... been there, done that, realized that ultimately arbitrary achievements in a virtual world are pointless. Virtual games are for fun IMHO. The greatest achievement in a virtual world is socializing with the people you meet in my opinion.
Whatever shit they currently have working they will monetize. We have barren moons? Quick sell them some land vehicles, and what could be more P2W than a frigging tank.
Whatever shit they currently have working they will monetize. We have barren moons? Quick sell them some land vehicles, and what could be more P2W than a frigging tank.
They get enough money just try to do too many projects at once. Need to put more into stability and bug fixes.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
So, again I ask, sincerely: How do tanks fit into the scope of Star Citizen?
I understand the game has changed (rather significantly) from the original Kickstarter, but I am genuinely interested in a space sim game with out-of-ship exploration. Tanks, land claims, and I'm assuming (eventually) other land-based sales just seem to be detracting from the whole space sim aspect of the game that was originally pitched. I can understand having land vehicles to a certain extent, for getting around the planets you want to explore, but tanks don't really make much since unless they're looking to put a lot more focus on land based content such as large scale territorial fights (ala Planetside).
So, I'm not really sure how much the scope has changed since the original Kickstarter; just looking for clarification.
In later stretch goals conquerable locations have been added to the list of objectives. This happened some years ago. Players can fight over possession of these locations. Space stations have been listed first. One can do this aready in the Alpha (Security Post Kareah). This list has later been extended to ground operations in another stretch goal.
Another stretch goal was about procedural generation, especially w.r.t. planetary environments.
The list of stretch goals added some 80 more points up to 2 years after the end of the Kickstarter campaign in Nov 2012. CIG then stopped offering stretch goals, against the wishes of the community which wanted even more stretch goals.
With those stretch goals in mind and a highly successful PG development CIG had put some effort into planetary bases and all related materials (think: Ursa rover, hover bikes etc.) to fulfill the points promised in these stretch goals. Land claims, forge ships to craft and place bases and ground vehicles (scout type jeeps and tracked type tanks) are just more aspects of this planetary aspect of the game.
So ... contrary to what some people claim w.r.t. scope creep .... CIG is doing exactly what they promised to their backers in the stretch goals.
Have fun
I appreciate that you kind of answered the rhetorical portion of my post, however, you did not answer my question.
How to tanks fit into the scope of Star Citizen?
What I originally backed on Kickstarter was a space sim with the ability to engage in FPS style combat/situations. 5 years later, now tanks and land are being added. Which, I admit, seems like a really cool concept; however, I don't understand how they fit into the scope of Star Citizen, or even the stretch goals you mentioned. No where in those stretch goals are tanks/ground vehicles, unless you take the term "planetary aspects" to literally mean anything that can be done on a planet. In which case, Star Citizen has left the realm of space sim and gone into a "literally everything" simulator.
When will the caravan reach its destination? The question becomes increasingly important with each passing day.
How you can continue to support them without even a glimmer of info regarding this baffles me.
But then again so does playing games without progression in place, playing for fun is beyond me, even with "friends."
I - personally - do not care when it reaches its destination. I only care about an excellent, well tested, fun game. I am a fan of the "Its done when its done" philosophy. I have hundreds of games to play until Star Citizen launches.
Yes, it seems when it comes to Bartle type gamers we are very different. I am an Explorer-Socializer .... my Killer and Achiever ratings are lower then the first two. I know competitive play ... been there, done that, realized that ultimately arbitrary achievements in a virtual world are pointless. Virtual games are for fun IMHO. The greatest achievement in a virtual world is socializing with the people you meet in my opinion.
Have fun
I'm more of an Achiever - Socializer, meaning if you and I share the same goal of achieving something, I'll socialize with you, otherwise, no thanks.
Probably why I fit in well with raiding guilds and even many corps in EVE, I love to work with folks on a common gaming goal, such as building up a base, or defending it.
Also why games with no progression hold no interest, and I don't feel my gaming achievements are arbitrary or pointless, they amused me at the time and still do. I have accomplished goals most in games never do, (especially as a casual player) and I'm proud of them even if no one else even knows of it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Whatever shit they currently have working they will monetize. We have barren moons? Quick sell them some land vehicles, and what could be more P2W than a frigging tank.
Premium ammo ? ;-)
And no, SC is not selling that.
Have fun
You might know, were tanks factored into the "Star Marine" concept? I haven't heard much about that part of the game for quite some time now.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Looks like SC is on track to achieving the same thing that 3D Realms did with Duke Nuke'em Forever, that is being the longest, most procrastinated game developement ever.
There is only one question on my mind regarding Star Citizen at this point...
What will they sell next?
Didn't they come out a while back and say that your character/avatar would have to eat and/or use the bathroom? If they keep that idea, I'm sure they will sell a "new" type of "super-duper-awesome-deluxe founder's pack" that will allow your character to not have to eat or poop. Of course it'll cost $10,000 but that shouldn't be a concern to people who have already gone into debt to support CR's new houses, cars, etc.
"We are all as God made us, and many of us much worse." - Don Quixote
Fun thing is ... i have met many backers ... i have met quite a few devs ... and the desperation that @rodarin speaks of is nowhere to be seen.
People are hard at work, progress is being made, the task is not a trivial one, delays happen. Basically everyone i know (backers and devs) are pretty cool about it. We all would like to see it finished sooner rather than later. But we all prefer quality over a rush-job.
Maybe some people cannot understand that attitude. Cannot be helped. "The caravan goes on" and will reach its destination.
Have fun
When will the caravan reach its destination? The question becomes increasingly important with each passing day.
How you can continue to support them without even a glimmer of info regarding this baffles me.
But then again so does playing games without progression in place, playing for fun is beyond me, even with "friends."
Personally, I don't mind the game taking longer than expected. However, what I do mind is that the scope of the game has gotten so broad that they decide to implement things like land-based combat vehicles and territory control. Honestly, it really detracts from the game development that was originally promised, and while it is possible to develop multiple things at once, it really comes at a cost. Personally, I believe in the Cost/Quality/Speed paradigm, in that you can have two of these things, but not all three. When you're going to "launch when its ready", but you continually increase the scope and detail put into the game, it really does make one wonder "well, when will they stop adding new features and actually finish one aspect?"
The way CIG has handled SCs development reminds me of high school class president. They promise literally everything from free vending machine snacks and better teachers to longer break periods and exam times; of course, everyone votes for them, because who wouldn't want those things? Everyone roars and cheers, and there's much hoorah'ing from the crowds, but graduation comes and none of it really happened. In reality, people knew that none of the promises could possibly happen unless they stayed in highschool until their late 30s.
The same can be said about Star Citizen at this point. You can frequently look back and say, "well, the backers *wanted* us to continue increasing the scope", but in reality, CIG should have known better and stopped making the scope so wide and actually completed portions of the game already promised before promising to add more. If tanks are actually being added, that means a whole host of additional ships/buildings/mechanics that will need to be added, as well. Ships to carry the tanks, buildings to store/manufacture them, etc. Of course, this is assumption, but at this point, I would expect anything and everything to be sold seeing as how land is for sale and now tanks to defend the land you purchased.
Furthermore, it really concerns me about the economy of the game when it is "finished", since they're literally selling the whole entire universe piece-by-piece as they make it. Sure, everyone is said to be able to earn everything (once its "finished") and I acknowledge that; however, I also acknowledge the fact that we literally only have speculation about how to go about those things.
You might know, were tanks factored into the "Star Marine" concept? I haven't heard much about that part of the game for quite some time now.
As "Star Marine" maps currently are battles over contested space stations, i do not expect to see a tank there. It may have some problems maneuvering the corridors and crawling spaces. ;-)
Comments
Bridges......................You to can own London Bridge in SPAAAAAAAAACCCCCCEEeeeeeeeeee.
CIG pretty much has a set pattern they seem to be sticking to. Coming out of left field with an unexpected surprise concept during major live presentations. As noted by some always something that was mentioned in the past. Just not talked about or included in the schedules until after presented, as the latest thing.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
You need to learn what the word "Exactly" means. "Exactly" would mean that they would have stated that there were going to be tanks in the game. THAT is "exact". If it doesn't state that, then no matter what's implied, it's not "exact".
Really, the fact that you needed 5 paragraphs to explain how it's implied that it's should be there kinda proves the opposite of exact.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I believe the above is a perfect example quotes being taken completely out of context to fit the current narrative.
The stretch goals mentioned are $19M and $20M which state:
Manage Space Stations – Players will compete to own and operate a limited number of space stations across the galaxy.
and
First person combat on select lawless planets. Don’t just battle on space stations and platforms… take the fight to the ground!
The latter obviously meaning CoD style gameplay, nothing more.
How you can continue to support them without even a glimmer of info regarding this baffles me.
But then again so does playing games without progression in place, playing for fun is beyond me, even with "friends."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
May: new ship, Aegis Eclipse
June: new ship, Aopoa Nox
July: new vehicle, Cyclone
August: new ship, Constellation Aquila
September: new ship, Origin X1
October: new ship, Outlands Pioneer
new feature: land claims
new feature: base building
new feature: attack and defense of player build bases
November: new ship, Anvil Hawk
new ship: Aegis Hammerhead
December: new vehicle: Nova Battle Tank
I wonder how long it takes Star Citizen supporters to realize that RSI is selling new stuff at much faster pace than they could possibly develop it.
Yes, it seems when it comes to Bartle type gamers we are very different. I am an Explorer-Socializer .... my Killer and Achiever ratings are lower then the first two. I know competitive play ... been there, done that, realized that ultimately arbitrary achievements in a virtual world are pointless. Virtual games are for fun IMHO. The greatest achievement in a virtual world is socializing with the people you meet in my opinion.
Have fun
this is one big SCAM..
Ill bet your right now that half of total amount of funds raized did not go into gamedevelopment but put into marketing or is going to
ow and ye.. prolly his wife got half of it aswell.. by serving coffie..
Fcking redicelus this..
there will be a game yes i think @ the end.. but it will be a major letdown
Their convention has been sponsored by Intel.
Their video blogs and magazine are sponsored by volunteer subscribers like me.
What type of marketing have you seen that makes you post that claim ?
Have fun
And no, SC is not selling that.
Have fun
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
How to tanks fit into the scope of Star Citizen?
What I originally backed on Kickstarter was a space sim with the ability to engage in FPS style combat/situations. 5 years later, now tanks and land are being added. Which, I admit, seems like a really cool concept; however, I don't understand how they fit into the scope of Star Citizen, or even the stretch goals you mentioned. No where in those stretch goals are tanks/ground vehicles, unless you take the term "planetary aspects" to literally mean anything that can be done on a planet. In which case, Star Citizen has left the realm of space sim and gone into a "literally everything" simulator.
Probably why I fit in well with raiding guilds and even many corps in EVE, I love to work with folks on a common gaming goal, such as building up a base, or defending it.
Also why games with no progression hold no interest, and I don't feel my gaming achievements are arbitrary or pointless, they amused me at the time and still do. I have accomplished goals most in games never do, (especially as a casual player) and I'm proud of them even if no one else even knows of it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The way CIG has handled SCs development reminds me of high school class president. They promise literally everything from free vending machine snacks and better teachers to longer break periods and exam times; of course, everyone votes for them, because who wouldn't want those things? Everyone roars and cheers, and there's much hoorah'ing from the crowds, but graduation comes and none of it really happened. In reality, people knew that none of the promises could possibly happen unless they stayed in highschool until their late 30s.
The same can be said about Star Citizen at this point. You can frequently look back and say, "well, the backers *wanted* us to continue increasing the scope", but in reality, CIG should have known better and stopped making the scope so wide and actually completed portions of the game already promised before promising to add more. If tanks are actually being added, that means a whole host of additional ships/buildings/mechanics that will need to be added, as well. Ships to carry the tanks, buildings to store/manufacture them, etc. Of course, this is assumption, but at this point, I would expect anything and everything to be sold seeing as how land is for sale and now tanks to defend the land you purchased.
Furthermore, it really concerns me about the economy of the game when it is "finished", since they're literally selling the whole entire universe piece-by-piece as they make it. Sure, everyone is said to be able to earn everything (once its "finished") and I acknowledge that; however, I also acknowledge the fact that we literally only have speculation about how to go about those things.
Have fun