AoC - Why more action combat?

MightyUnclean

Why is Ashes of Creation going with an action combat system?  Hasn't the rash of action combat MMO's that have come out and not been that successful turned the tide against this yet?  The most successful MMO's have used tab targeting.  I guess they don't want to be accused of being outdated.  That would never attract the console kids.

MrMelGibson

I believe in their stream they said they are catering to both demographics by allowing tab target style builds and/or action builds.  Just repeating the Dev.  So take it for what you will.

MightyUnclean

MrMelGibson said:

I believe in their stream they said they are catering to both demographics by allowing tab target style builds and/or action builds.  Just repeating the Dev.  So take it for what you will.

Oh, that would be lovely if it works!

FlyByKnight

Do you have any source or information to provide that shows games are not successful specifically because of having to aim?

Rhetorical. I reclaim my time.

ConstantineMerus

FlyByKnight said:

Do you have any source or information to provide that shows games are not successful specifically because of having to aim?

Rhetorical. I reclaim my time.

He's comparing the numbers of EQ, WoW, SWToR, and FF to TERA, Wildstar, BDO, ESO.

Guess overall tab-targeting games got more players but that doesn't mean the rest aren't successful or the amount of success is due to tab-target combat. 

For instance if FFXIV had BDO combat I would've been playing it ever since release. And I don't play BDO neither. Yeah I'm a complex fella, but so are MMORPGs

Galadourn

I think the best combination of action/tab-target combat I have experienced in a game so far is the one in Neverwinter. AoC should try to create something similar. It gives a good sense of action without becoming FPS.

Kajidourden

Pretty sure if you go to the list of games on this website there are aboooout 5% action combat games, so this idiotic idea of "more action combat" by this community and the mmo community at large is hilarious.

moshra

Lets not forget the IP that most of the tab target games are working with.  ESO is doing pretty well with an action style combat. Is it because its a better action game, or is it more likely due to the fact that it is an Elder Scrolls game?

bluemindxo

tap target is for a*tistic kids who dunno 101 about combat in games 

Scorchien

moshra said:

Lets not forget the IP that most of the tab target games are working with.  ESO is doing pretty well with an action style combat. Is it because its a better action game, or is it more likely due to the fact that it is an Elder Scrolls game?

ESO is a soft Tab game tho .. Hybrid .. not so much action combat as others , like BDO for ex..

 Which by the way does not equate to better combat imo .. in BDO i mange to get to lvl 53 and never die , fighting reds and purps the entire time ... To easy imo ..

  That being said i do find games i enjoy with both systems .. as another poster said Neverwinter is a fun system ... as is FF14 for tab ...

       It really depends on how the game PVE is set up some are better for Tab others Action ... And each offer a different but enjoyable lvl of immersion

Gavyne

GW2 is a good example of a hybrid action combat system.  It uses tab target, but you can cast while moving and there's an active dodging system for evades.  The best part is the combat is smooth, it feels responsive and animation is great.

It was always WoW that took the crown for smooth combat animation and responsiveness, which I feel have always contributed to its popularity.  GW2 sorta upgraded from that, added action combat while retaining the smooth combat feel.

Action combat is fine, but it needs to feel smooth, responsive, and it needs to look good.  ESO is a good example of action combat feeling a bit clunky (in my opinion).  BDO is full action combat, it's very fast paced and for the most part it does a good job.  But the engine can't seem to handle it that's why you hear all the complaints about desync & rubberbanding.  If you want to have an action combat game, just make sure it's smooth and responsive.

Wizardry

Well the term "action" has been used by all developers to mORe or less define a genre,example ACTION rpg's,ARPG's.So it is not just about Aim at all.The arpg's lean way more towards spam combat,something i detest.

On that topic however,having played years of manual and  auto aim,they BOTH work,it all depends on the game and it's design.

I will start with the obvious,AUTO aim in a fps would NEVER work,that is what we call aimbots.On the flipside auto aim in a mmorpg msot certainly does work and for the most important reason,it allows the game to have a LOT more skills/abilities than predominantly manual aiming.

On those two ideas,manual aim is all that matters and what a fps is all about,not so in a mmorpg as they are about much more than just aim,like MUCH more.
So what it comes down to,do you want to turn a rpg into a fps and vice versa?I can say that personally i cannot stand games that try to crossfit,be yourself,quit trying to enhance your sales by pretending to be good at both worlds because in the end your not good at BOTH.

Theocritus

If 'action' means we have to dodge, roll, jump, etc to avoid getting hit, I wont be playing.

ingi

Tab targeting got old in 1 hour. "Action" mmo targeting was never ok. True FPS yes please.

kitarad

Action combat is not my cup of tea unfortunately.

danwest58

Gavyne said:

GW2 is a good example of a hybrid action combat system.  It uses tab target, but you can cast while moving and there's an active dodging system for evades.  The best part is the combat is smooth, it feels responsive and animation is great.

It was always WoW that took the crown for smooth combat animation and responsiveness, which I feel have always contributed to its popularity.  GW2 sorta upgraded from that, added action combat while retaining the smooth combat feel.

Action combat is fine, but it needs to feel smooth, responsive, and it needs to look good.  ESO is a good example of action combat feeling a bit clunky (in my opinion).  BDO is full action combat, it's very fast paced and for the most part it does a good job.  But the engine can't seem to handle it that's why you hear all the complaints about desync & rubberbanding.  If you want to have an action combat game, just make sure it's smooth and responsive.

I think the GW2 model is what Ashes is going with their Action Combat setup.  It still has Tab Target but where is in most tab target games you cannot cast on the run Ashes will let you cast on the run.   I dont think Ashes will be a true Action Combat system where you have to dodge in coming damage out side of the normal if I stand behind the person when they swing they will not hit me type of dodging.   I dont see them doing the FPS type of action combat.

Vorthanion

I'll pass on the twitch combat.  It gets exhausting after an hour of playing, let alone the hours of playing that I usually invest in MMORPG's.

Sovrath

MightyUnclean said:

Why is Ashes of Creation going with an action combat system?  Hasn't the rash of action combat MMO's that have come out and not been that successful turned the tide against this yet?  The most successful MMO's have used tab targeting.  I guess they don't want to be accused of being outdated.  That would never attract the console kids.

Did it ever occur to you that "the most successful mmo's" came out prior to action combat being a thing? Maybe, if action combat was prevalent first, people would say "why tab targeting, the most successful mmo's have been action ... "

In any case, I've always thought tab targeting was a joke. I remember playing an early game (Summoner I think) and thinking that someone must be able to make combat better without having to tab.

Has nothing to do with console kids. I'm about to be 51 in a few months and much prefer "action combat". I can tolerate tab targeting.

MightyUnclean

Theocritus said:

If 'action' means we have to dodge, roll, jump, etc to avoid getting hit, I wont be playing.

I have to agree.  #1, I'm not very good at that sort of combat.  #2, I find it very tiring over any more than a brief play session.  

Prescience

I don't think action combat is a good choice for MMORPGs. For one, it tends to exacerbate lag further due to aiming being a factor and it just ruins immersion.

bluemindxo

target tap what am i in 2005?

darknagual

im so sick of tab targeting in games. if i company could make a MMO with skyrim style combat, it would definitely be the best game ever created in my eyes . ESO tried doing it but failed, tera failed,bdo is just shit no matter what it does,  darkfall got close

Kyleran

bluemindxo said:

target tap what am i in 2005?

You wish, then MMORPGs would still dominate the landscape, full of promise an innovation and not the pale shadows they've become.

MightyUnclean

Kyleran said:

bluemindxo said:

target tap what am i in 2005?

You wish, then MMORPGs would still dominate the landscape, full of promise an innovation and not the pale shadows they've become.

But hey, there have been incredible innovations since then.  Like...action combat! 

Mikeha

Ashes combat seems to be more Guild Wars 2 which is not really action combat. Its just tab target with movement which to me is the best system. 

Combat like Black Desert, Tera and Blade And Soul is what I consider action. 

danwest58

Vorthanion said:

I'll pass on the twitch combat.  It gets exhausting after an hour of playing, let alone the hours of playing that I usually invest in MMORPG's.

Vorthanion look at the video from Mikeha   https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/471390    Its Guild Wars 2 like combat.   It looks very good.