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Valve Openly Allows Fraud, and Scams
Renoaku
Member EpicPosts: 3,157
For those who use OPSkins, or other various trading sites, Valve openly allows fraud and scams via the trading service.
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3415-WAFH-6433
Scamming to me is the act of promise to pay for goods, switching out stuff in the Trade Window at the last moment for example, in hopes the other person won't see for example and thus ripping a person off.
What an OPBots scammer does, in this case, is beyond scamming, it's fraud
http://steamcommunity.com/id/34563452342423432
Basically, a user will contact you through steam if you are new to trading, or other various means to contact you, or just send a random trade request to another user in hopes they will accept it pretending to be an OPSkins bot, as shown above the user has multiple fake bot numbers, and has copied fake profile pretending to be a Bot from OPskins, they are also a member of the fake OPSkins Admin Bot Group, which has 3 other members doing this.
The person who solicits contact in games will often pretend to be a popular Twitch.TV person but if you look at it their profiles have often been duplicated to look just like another user this is where the fraud takes place.
What is annoying is that Valve / Steam has absolutely no way to submit an actual ticket that I am aware of in-order to deal with a person doing this it's been 72 hours i've reported the bot at least 5 times, faking his identity of another bot, and Trade Scamming, no action has been taken by valve, as they seem to welcome this type of behavior with open arms.
https://www.reddit.com/r/opskins/comments/4742c4/common_scams_to_watch_out_for/ OPSkins also confirmed with me this bot is not one of theirs and is fake although $30 loss isn't a lot imagine this happening to people with Precious DOTA 2 items, a Liver Streamer, for example, is streaming and they go to put an item to OPBots and someone faking an OPbot sends a trade request for an item, that person can potentially lose thousands of dollars worth of items or an item in seconds with no way to combat this or get the item back as Valve does not seem to take this seriously.
If you check the bot's inventory they also have many items from H1Z1, DOTA 2, and CSGO which have also been stolen from other people, And this is a crime as items can be sold for "Steam Currency" and then used to sell games / Keys from sites like G2A, or be used to cash out money through legitimate 3rd party skin selling sites.
I don't care about $38 being lost in a scam I should have been aware of if I paid more attention, I care about the user / group of people who are allowed to keep doing this type of activity that should be illegal, and how Valve doesn't Terminate the accounts openly doing this to prevent the user from being able to make a living off scamming other people which should be illegal.
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3415-WAFH-6433
Scamming to me is the act of promise to pay for goods, switching out stuff in the Trade Window at the last moment for example, in hopes the other person won't see for example and thus ripping a person off.
What an OPBots scammer does, in this case, is beyond scamming, it's fraud
http://steamcommunity.com/id/34563452342423432
Basically, a user will contact you through steam if you are new to trading, or other various means to contact you, or just send a random trade request to another user in hopes they will accept it pretending to be an OPSkins bot, as shown above the user has multiple fake bot numbers, and has copied fake profile pretending to be a Bot from OPskins, they are also a member of the fake OPSkins Admin Bot Group, which has 3 other members doing this.
The person who solicits contact in games will often pretend to be a popular Twitch.TV person but if you look at it their profiles have often been duplicated to look just like another user this is where the fraud takes place.
What is annoying is that Valve / Steam has absolutely no way to submit an actual ticket that I am aware of in-order to deal with a person doing this it's been 72 hours i've reported the bot at least 5 times, faking his identity of another bot, and Trade Scamming, no action has been taken by valve, as they seem to welcome this type of behavior with open arms.
https://www.reddit.com/r/opskins/comments/4742c4/common_scams_to_watch_out_for/ OPSkins also confirmed with me this bot is not one of theirs and is fake although $30 loss isn't a lot imagine this happening to people with Precious DOTA 2 items, a Liver Streamer, for example, is streaming and they go to put an item to OPBots and someone faking an OPbot sends a trade request for an item, that person can potentially lose thousands of dollars worth of items or an item in seconds with no way to combat this or get the item back as Valve does not seem to take this seriously.
If you check the bot's inventory they also have many items from H1Z1, DOTA 2, and CSGO which have also been stolen from other people, And this is a crime as items can be sold for "Steam Currency" and then used to sell games / Keys from sites like G2A, or be used to cash out money through legitimate 3rd party skin selling sites.
I don't care about $38 being lost in a scam I should have been aware of if I paid more attention, I care about the user / group of people who are allowed to keep doing this type of activity that should be illegal, and how Valve doesn't Terminate the accounts openly doing this to prevent the user from being able to make a living off scamming other people which should be illegal.
Comments
However scammers don't just target people, they target Automated Bots, so if you are new to OPSkins for example, or don't verify everytime that the Bot Number matches an OPskins bot a scammer can send you a request especially if you are screen-sharing for example, or on live stream and attempt to take your items so instead of going to an OPBots account where you use their service to sell and trade, it goes to a scammers account where they are free to cash out by using steam to gift games through 3rd party sites such as G2A, or Cashing out via OPSkins I believe they offer to cash out never done that yet though.
Basically, you have to look at more than just the name of the person you have to check their profile before you trade because scammers will use the exact bot name, or fake Admin groups pretending to be OP Skins.
Regardless i know its my fault for being an idiot in a trade, but Steam doesn't seem to actually do anything about the Fraud, Fake Bots, or Fake Admin Groups that are using their service to commit fraud, I consider it more fraud than scamming because it's no different than me IRL walking into a bank and handing them fake Identity and trying to take someone else money.
But hey on a positive note, what is amazing about it all, is you can gamble skins through a 3rd party API, Spend like $300+ in PUBG or CSGO get good skins, sell them for steam funds, and dump all that money into your favorite steam MMORPG game like Warframe or Black Desert, in fact I bet a lot of the whales in Black Desert actually do this its a great way if you feel like a loot-box chance.
Do you think they will ever fix it though, like I've reported the bot scammer, and the fake group he's in 5+ times over 72 hours or so they are still at it...
I just decided to open over 100+ PUBG Lootboxes got an insane amount of loot and high valued items only to have a user try to take them all pretending to be a twitch.tv streamer really pissed me off.
I mean $38 wasn't a big deal because I got the item back anyways just bought another one but still when you total the hundreds of items these people scam off others it all adds up quickly.
Steam could add some type of verification to their API for trading to prevent fake marketplace bots from taking advantage of this?
I don't care about getting my item back because it's likely been sold to some legitimate user who just bought it from OPSkins or some other site legally and taking it back would be wrong, but 72 hours later and the people are still on steam with their fake groups, and fake bot names it seems like Valve could make things more secured, or do a better job at least banning accounts until they repay back what they stole to the users who had items stolen would be awesome punishment.
I am just glad I caught on to the issue after he requested a second trade and read carefully the warning message that did pop up because if I had of accepted it I would have lost well over $300 worth of items.
There are things they could have done to improve steam API, like require all bots be registered and connected to a services network, and when a user does a trade it will say the exact name, website, and information to the website providing the 3rd party trading service.
And the second is that friends who you trade with could appear in a certain color instead of like normal now I've not done any trading really with Steam, but I assume it doesn't do this, and this right here would stop fraud imagine if there are 100 people named "Bob" on steam only one is real and the rest are imposters pretty hard to tell the difference unless you really look closely.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
If Valve's trade system does not cancel a trade when an item is swapped and one of the party's has already approved the trade then that is a problem with Valve's trade system. The trade should be automatically cancelled or reset by Valve's system in that instance.
Valve, however, is openly allowing a group of "Fake People" pretending to be "OPSkins" or other 3rd party sites to change their names, and pretend to be other users, Reported "The Group" and "The person" who is not an OPSkins bot, and they are still actively scamming 72+ hours later.
Valve also has no ticket system to contact them directly and get these people / fraud / scammers removed from the service who are there just to do fraud, and this is what I blame valve for, obviously, valve could do more to protect its users like.
For example, having the steam API give the ability for Bots and users to Link directly to a website, so users themselves can confirm that its the real website, or some type of 2FA system so players have to type a code from the website itself into the trade box to prevent scams.
And listing friends as a different color name during trading so that users know its really their friend not someone else who sent a fake request pretending to be them.
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/opskins-bots <--- this here is the legitimate OPSkins, and OPSkins bots they do not scam people if they did that would be my own fault for doing business with them.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/34563452342423432 <--- this here is the Fake OPSkins Bot, that sends Trade Requests to people and pretends to be the bot, if you check their groups they are also OPSKINS Admin Bot, they have other fake bots with them.
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/WhyYouSamayl <--- This is the fake OPSkins Bot Group.
^ Fraud should not be allowed by valve, scamming is a user own fault sure But its fraud when you impersonate another person, or individual on steam.
72 Hours + the user is still allowed to scam other people, how is this not valve's fault, if you don't want to blame them just because a user accepted a trade that is fine, but how is it not their fault for not banning an account that is actively committing fraud to other users when they clearly have been informed/reported multiple times?
I did the trade through steam to the bot which pretended to be an OPskins Bot, which is used to sell stuff on the OPSkins site.
Even if you say valve should be held harmless because a user has to check multiple boxes to do a trade which is true, Valve should take immediate action on a users account when its found they are actively committing fraud such as changing their name with the sole purpose of attempting to get another user to accept a trade, or pretending to be an OPSkins bot in other words.
If Valve didn't want users to use Bots, then there wouldn't be so many Gambling Websites open based around cosmetic skins, and trading sites the API would be closed down, but Valve doesn't seem to mind, and I don't mind either, if I lost an item through OPSkins for example then this would be my fault for trusting them, but if another user comes on steam and actively frauds other users that is a different story.
All trades have to happen and be approved through Steam, if this were the case of a 3rd party website failing to deliver an item, you just contact your bank.
Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/472023/valve-openly-allows-fraud-and-scams#vOSkcx6Xz00i9JOT.99
However, having skin scammers/fraudsters like this opens a whole new hole where users can commit the scams, sell the goods for money, and gift people games through steam for example and this is where a user can get banned if they get a number of games where charge-back has happened for example which is when a fraudster basically charges like $500 of games and gifts them to peoples accounts then does a charge-back.
Also, users can sell items and skins and then take that money and stick it into games that use the steam API like Warframe, or Black Desert using wallet funds to buy in a game currency such as Pearls, or whatever that Warframe currency is for the cash shop.
Im generally saying that Valve needs to take a better stance against users doing this type of activity, sure it may be someone fault for accepting a trade with someone they believe is another person, but when it goes 72 hours and beyond that a person is doing the same fraud/scams to others this is a problem,
Just a thought.........
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Although Black Desert Online is mostly earned?
. . .the process isn't instantaneous, as any investigation of accounts behaviour takes time.
72 hours is nothing. . .
I think I liked it better when it was all behind the scenes though, and not actively promoted by the developers themselves.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
USE THE LEGIT SYSTEM
After CF comes out are you going to come here and tell us something similar to this and try to place the blame on someone else?
The only thing that is similar between the two is that users can easily commit fraud, in Albion though they ban anyone they suspect purchased from 3rd parties without having actual transaction history from the person's bank accounts showing they purchased, or even comparing or checking all trades in account history.
With Steam users can repeat change their name, and pretend to be another user, and that is an issue with fraud because items are valued at real money they can be cashed out through 3rd party sites, or sold on the steam community market after being scammed then used to buy currency in games, in fact this can actually contribute to a huge Gold-Selling market in games using steam funds because scammers/people who commit fraud by scamming others and faking their name can use the currency they get in their steam wallet funds to buy gold or whatever in other games and resell it for example, or for their main accounts personal use.
And that depends, If Crow Fall doesn't have Real Money Transactions, people committing fraud, and scams faking other peoples names then I can't see a problem however I have checked games like Ashes OF Creation, and Crow Fall, and I do not believe there is a section that bans "Real Money Trading" I have not checked in awhile but I know Ashes has no user agreement and given I backed the game before there is any agreement then they would have to refund if I choose not to accept the agreement, but I believe both games will do just fine.
If Steam trade API were illegal why would Steam allow it?
https://steamcommunity.com/dev
https://opskins.com/ And why wouldn't people use OPSkins?
OPSkins is cheaper than the steam market, but then Valve could simply update their Terms OF Service, and remove the ability to use API / Bots all together, then allow all sales only through the Steam Community Market?
I think the issue here is preventing fraud or fake users from having the ability to request trades, or a way to decline all incoming trade requests unless it comes from a certain website via the API key, this way only legit OPSkins bots or trades for example as well as other services could trade with a player not scammers posing to be a certain user or Bot.
People don't usually use 3rd party sites cause many are often shady af for anything and everything, not just video games.
What happened is one of the games I played called SOS a user added me as a friend and pretended to be a streamer, and not knowing about how to actually do trades because generally, I don't steam trading except for PUBG or Duplicates they showed me how to list to OPskins, except using social engineering and a fake bot they decided to steal my items then try to take a few hundred dollars worth of items, this wasn't OPSkins fault, and personally I don't have issues with 3rd party trading.
Even if you don't like it or think/know about it fact is you are likely taking part in third party trades.
World OF Warcraft if you buy a WOW Token off the market this could come from a hacked credit-card.
G2A, Users can sell stolen copies of games on the service and the buyer has to pay the price.
Ebay, Fraud Happens all the time with Virtual Items and Real Items especially high valued items it can happen with either the buyer or the seller and that is why I don't trust Ebay, unless I really have to use their service for something I can't find online elsewhere like rare copies of collectors editions of certain games that were really hard for me to get elsewhere.
Steam Wallet Funds are a great money laundry tool, heck like crypto currency "Steam Items" can be used to pay for illegal goods or services and withdrawn from a 3rd party at a percentage of course.
When you are unfortunate enough to get caught in an issue the companies should have your back, especially with digital goods measures, need to be taken in all games such as Albion, Warframe, Steam Market, and possibly upcoming games Ashes / Crow Fall, I don't know how they will be but I know the ones I mentioned are open to fraud, the chances of losing an account though if you unknowingly take part in a fraud purchase such as Warframe using in-game currency is small, I mean I've never been banned from Steam, or any other service besides Albion for 3rd party transactions for that matter and when you do get caught up in something a Reputable company lets you know to be more careful. (Not saying I did 3rd party transactions in that game but that is their claims.) Also Entorpia, and Second Life support 3rd party transactions all the time.
Steam has taken some safeguards, but since users can freely change their name, copy other peoples profiles and commit fraud/scams just like Identity fraud in Real Life when you walk into a bank for example and attempt to access another persons account using a fake ID, it's just like this in the Virtual World where there is free trading which free trade is a great thing, but measures need to be taken to better protect consumers which is why I lost my Albion account I had for 3 years no infractions, if fraud was stopped at it's source it would be awesome, Users should be able to trade no matter what safely, without having to worry about imposters/scammers.
Also you lost your Albion account for buying money from a gold seller, got caught, screamed and then when it was revealed what you did, tried to cover it up by saying its not against any rules. I know you will just talk in more circles and expect everyone to feel bad for you but honestly if I had a friend that was doing this I would say the same to them. Its a risk vs reward. You tried to save some money with the risk of well... This. You might win some but this one you lost, sorry man.
A guy on steam scammed on Valves service because he was not an actual service bot by the 3rd party thus making it a transaction totally on Valves service, therefore, it would still fall under their rules as it was technically not a 3rd party.
Third party trading on steam really isn't illegal people do it all the time.
**The exception here is if I used lets say OPSkins for example, and the items went to OPSkins, then for some reason OPSkins banned my account, then absolutely that wouldn't be valves fault because I trusted that third party, being scammed, and fraud are two different things.**
As for that Albion thing I really don't care about the game anymore, it's dead anyways in my eyes, only reason its relevant is that both Albion, Warframe, and Steam Trading is all open to fraud, and scams, although I never purchased currency from a 3rd party on Albion and wouldn't have a problem saying so if I did, the company can't actually show transaction logs of the real money transfers, and admit they could be wrong, plus 4.5.1 says they assume you are guilty if doing a large trade even if you are not or just are scammed by a friend telling you they are quitting and giving away all their items for example then anonymously contact them and say later your friend purhased currecny via 3rd party, and banned.
In Albion obviously going to some gold selling site and trading through a 3rd party is illegal, but it's really the same concept as steam trading, except that steam allows API development for trading which is awesome, but Steam needs to actively banish users who defraud others, and add secure API trading between services via steam linking so users can always be confident they are trading with the actual service or their friends on steam rather than an imposter. It's easy to tell if you look closely at it, but not everyone does this, or is aware of it at least I wasn't on my first trade a few days ago.
Also it's impossible for a company to actually determine if a user actually purchased currency, or didn't purchase currency, sure you have game logs absolutely, but if a user has been there for more than 3 years with no transaction history on file, most reputable companies actually give a user the benefit of the doubt and investigate/watch for more illegal 3rd party transactions, most do, others jump right on it and can be wrong Which is one reason Black Desert is so great for not having any way at all to actually trade currency.
The only thing a person can do in Black Desert Online, is Gifting Fraud, or Giving out their password, and that would just be stupid, but that is one of the things that makes the game awesome.
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