Whats up with the hatred?

rubydragon5

Why does the game have such a low score, and people hating it so much?

People are saying p2w but so is archeage and bdo and most mmo's out right now with there cash shops

What makes this one worse?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

kitarad

Game has the reputation of a mattress on the floor of an abandoned house. If you go back and read up about the game and its developers you'll understand.

Albatroes

Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community. Nuff said.

Allerleirauh

Yeah, you can ask, what's the difference between Shroud of the Avatar, BDO, and ArcheAge? ArcheAge and BDO look way better than SotA, so that's one thing they have going for them. Like @blueturtle13 mentioned, respect was lost for this game when Richard Garriott was willing to sell his blood. It was just weird, and he is known for bailing out of projects. When you cannot respect the developers, you cannot trust the direction of the game.

blorpykins

BDO was cheaper to make than SOTA.

Dvora

blorpykins said:

BDO was cheaper to make than SOTA.

if that is true then it is pretty sad.

Kyleran

Dvora said:

blorpykins said:

BDO was cheaper to make than SOTA.

if that is true then it is pretty sad.

Well BDO was coded in S. Korea which has roughly 50% of US labor costs as well as was using an established team.

Gdemami

Dvora said:

if that is true then it is pretty sad.

No worries, it isn't true.

blorpykins

BDO's producer said his game was made with 11 million, SOTA was made with over 20 million and SOTA also used a team of industry veterans, the same people that made Ultima I think.

https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/3777/dae-il-kim-the-chairperson-of-pearl-abyss-im-still-an-active-developer-the-next-title-is-in-progress

In fact, the development cost for BDO wasn’t that high. We had as many skilled personnel as we could get, and I personally put much dedication into it. It was around 11 million dollars. We modified the whole process in order to save some costs. The process was completely different from that of R2 or C9. We discussed many times internally, and we had to make an instant decision from time to time.

This article says the development costs for BDO was only 1 million, but the article I got my information from I think is more credible since it cites a direct quote from the BDO producer, Dae Il Kim.

Gdemami

blorpykins said:

BDO's producer said his game was made with 11 million, SOTA was made with over 20 million and SOTA also used a team of industry veterans, the same people that made Ultima I think.

https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/3777/dae-il-kim-the-chairperson-of-pearl-abyss-im-still-an-active-developer-the-next-title-is-in-progress

In fact, the development cost for BDO wasn’t that high. We had as many skilled personnel as we could get, and I personally put much dedication into it. It was around 11 million dollars. We modified the whole process in order to save some costs. The process was completely different from that of R2 or C9. We discussed many times internally, and we had to make an instant decision from time to time.

This article says the development costs for BDO was only 1 million, but the article I got my information from I think is more credible since it cites a direct quote from the BDO producer, Dae Il Kim.

I am aware of those sources.

However, if you follow the source of 1M figure, it says 12B KRW(around 11M USD),  thus I believe, like it often happens with translations and indeed point in case, the number provided at IPO presentation and an interview refers to some specific part of the development.

Unlike some people think, hiring developers does not cost 50% less in Korea.

Also, you do not jump from talking about high pay skilled staff and need to improve quality of life of your well treated employees to say how cheap all that is...

I realize that BDO was relatively cheap to make and why, I am even willing to provide the benefit of the doubt and say it could be in theory possible but misunderstanding is imo more likely, the numbers simply do not add up.

YashaX

Gdemami said:

blorpykins said:

BDO's producer said his game was made with 11 million, SOTA was made with over 20 million and SOTA also used a team of industry veterans, the same people that made Ultima I think.

https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/3777/dae-il-kim-the-chairperson-of-pearl-abyss-im-still-an-active-developer-the-next-title-is-in-progress

In fact, the development cost for BDO wasn’t that high. We had as many skilled personnel as we could get, and I personally put much dedication into it. It was around 11 million dollars. We modified the whole process in order to save some costs. The process was completely different from that of R2 or C9. We discussed many times internally, and we had to make an instant decision from time to time.

This article says the development costs for BDO was only 1 million, but the article I got my information from I think is more credible since it cites a direct quote from the BDO producer, Dae Il Kim.

I am aware of those sources.

However, if you follow the source of 1M figure, it says 12B KRW(around 11M USD),  thus I believe, like it often happens with translations and indeed point in case, the number provided at IPO presentation and an interview refers to some specific part of the development.

Unlike some people think, hiring developers does not cost 50% less in Korea.

Also, you do not jump from talking about high pay skilled staff and need to improve quality of life of your well treated employees to say how cheap all that is...

I realize that BDO was relatively cheap to make and why, I am even willing to provide the benefit of the doubt and say it could be in theory possible but misunderstanding is imo more likely, the numbers simply do not add up.

US programmer average salary US$79,840: https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/computer-programmer/salary

South Korea KRW42,689,950 (about USD $39,000:  https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/computer-programmer/south-korea/seoul

....And using the same site as the for Korean salaries so we have more of an apples for apples comparison, the US average is $87,000 - over double that of Korea:  https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/computer-programmer/united-states

Akulas

Comes down to still being expected to pay after you already paid for the game and other peoples attitude associated with that.

Kyleran

YashaX said:

Gdemami said:

blorpykins said:

BDO's producer said his game was made with 11 million, SOTA was made with over 20 million and SOTA also used a team of industry veterans, the same people that made Ultima I think.

https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/3777/dae-il-kim-the-chairperson-of-pearl-abyss-im-still-an-active-developer-the-next-title-is-in-progress

In fact, the development cost for BDO wasn’t that high. We had as many skilled personnel as we could get, and I personally put much dedication into it. It was around 11 million dollars. We modified the whole process in order to save some costs. The process was completely different from that of R2 or C9. We discussed many times internally, and we had to make an instant decision from time to time.

This article says the development costs for BDO was only 1 million, but the article I got my information from I think is more credible since it cites a direct quote from the BDO producer, Dae Il Kim.

I am aware of those sources.

However, if you follow the source of 1M figure, it says 12B KRW(around 11M USD),  thus I believe, like it often happens with translations and indeed point in case, the number provided at IPO presentation and an interview refers to some specific part of the development.

Unlike some people think, hiring developers does not cost 50% less in Korea.

Also, you do not jump from talking about high pay skilled staff and need to improve quality of life of your well treated employees to say how cheap all that is...

I realize that BDO was relatively cheap to make and why, I am even willing to provide the benefit of the doubt and say it could be in theory possible but misunderstanding is imo more likely, the numbers simply do not add up.

US programmer average salary US$79,840: https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/computer-programmer/salary

South Korea KRW42,689,950 (about USD $39,000:  https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/computer-programmer/south-korea/seoul

....And using the same site as the for Korean salaries so we have more of an apples for apples comparison, the US average is $87,000 - over double that of Korea:  https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/computer-programmer/united-states

When I did the comparison I used Glass Door and the numbers were roughly $53K for S Korea and about $105K for the US, so same ratio more or less.

The US numbers seemed a bit high but who knows, maybe not, the figure is in line with what the firm I work for pays but we dont make games.

Ice-Queen

rubydragon5 said:

Why does the game have such a low score, and people hating it so much?

People are saying p2w but so is archeage and bdo and most mmo's out right now with there cash shops

What makes this one worse?

It's not hatred, it's disappointment from many early backers that thought they were getting an RPG first and an optional Selective Multi-Player. We all wanted it to succeed, but it's been persistent for over a year now and out over 60k people they have 500 or a thousand left? The only number we have really is from Chris during their seed invest that said a bit more than 500 people login concurrently. What it turned out to be was a half put together mmorpg that does nothing well. In my opinion, yes just opinion, not conspiracy theory hatred, it's a mish mash of the cheapest unity assets all thrown together in a game that looks and plays awkward, with a story that feels thrown together as well, with a cash shop now hidden in game.

No matter how the devs and few remaining players try to paint the negativity toward this game (yes, they say there is an "organized group" trying to damage the game .. which is a bunch of conspiracy theory). There are however probably 10's of thousands of disappointed "CUSTOMERS", yes customers, that's what the rest of the world calls it, disgruntled customers, disappointed customers, unhappy customers, etc. etc. that are just telling people to try the free trial first before buying it. If the game was good there would be more customers playing, it's that simple.

I see people all over the net ragging on World of Warcraft but it isn't hurting their customer base.  Remember Warhammer Online, it got slammed by customers and even Mark Jacobs himself slammed for it being so terrible, but did he come back and say "Oh boo hoo, there's an "organized" group or haters trying to hurt my game? NO he pulled up his big boy pants, sucked it up and took the hits even though it wasn't all his fault, because that's what adults do. We own our mistakes, we learn from them, and we do better next time. We don't go around playing the blame game like a bunch of grade school children. Bottom line we're "CUSTOMERS" that were disappointed, nothing more.

Astraeis

rubydragon5 said:

Why does the game have such a low score, and people hating it so much?

People are saying p2w but so is archeage and bdo and most mmo's out right now with there cash shops

What makes this one worse?

7.26 is not low for a hype score when you wait so long a do such weird things as developer so that the hype wears off. All hype dies in the end.

Brugas

Albatroes said:

Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community. Nuff said.

And?  It was part of a huge bundle of goods and charity event for a Blood Bank.  Silly trolls and their negativity.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

Dakeru

Brugas said:

Albatroes said:

Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community. Nuff said.

And?  It was part of a huge bundle of goods and charity event for a Blood Bank.  Silly trolls and their negativity.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

When you sell your blood and people actually buy it then that speaks for a major case of cult like behavior.

You defending it by saying it was a normal item inside a bundle and calling us trolls speaks for the nature of this game's community.

Not exactly an environment most of us would want to join.

Brugas

Dakeru said:

Brugas said:

Albatroes said:

Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community. Nuff said.

And?  It was part of a huge bundle of goods and charity event for a Blood Bank.  Silly trolls and their negativity.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

When you sell your blood and people actually buy it then that speaks for a major case of cult like behavior.

You defending it by saying it was a normal item inside a bundle and calling us trolls speaks for the nature of this game's community.

Not exactly an environment most of us would want to join.

Ahhh no it doesn't but I bet you didn't even look at the link. The Blood Reliqurary was a theme item for a BLOOD BANK Charity Event. If you're not even going to investigate or bother with facts and just go on by hearsay and make up you decisions on one-sided stories, then by all means... troll on.  At least the rest of the gamers can see for themselves now.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

Scot

blueturtle13 said:

Many people feel there is an element of sleaze involved in the game and it's monetization. 
I mean the guy was selling his blood in vials for pete's sake!

Vampires the world over were well chuffed though.

Dakeru

Brugas said:

Dakeru said:

Brugas said:

Albatroes said:

Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community. Nuff said.

And?  It was part of a huge bundle of goods and charity event for a Blood Bank.  Silly trolls and their negativity.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

When you sell your blood and people actually buy it then that speaks for a major case of cult like behavior.

You defending it by saying it was a normal item inside a bundle and calling us trolls speaks for the nature of this game's community.

Not exactly an environment most of us would want to join.

Ahhh no it doesn't but I bet you didn't even look at the link. The Blood Reliqurary was a theme item for a BLOOD BANK Charity Event. If you're not even going to investigate or bother with facts and just go on by hearsay and make up you decisions on one-sided stories, then by all means... troll on.  At least the rest of the gamers can see for themselves now.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

What does that change?
At all?
You just repeated what you said before ignoring what I said.

He sold his blood and people wanted it.
How does pointing this out make us trolls?

Actually don't bother - you are one of the cult and just repeating your nonsense yet again won't change anything.

Brugas

Dakeru said:

Brugas said:

Dakeru said:

Brugas said:

Albatroes said:

Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community. Nuff said.

And?  It was part of a huge bundle of goods and charity event for a Blood Bank.  Silly trolls and their negativity.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

When you sell your blood and people actually buy it then that speaks for a major case of cult like behavior.

You defending it by saying it was a normal item inside a bundle and calling us trolls speaks for the nature of this game's community.

Not exactly an environment most of us would want to join.

Ahhh no it doesn't but I bet you didn't even look at the link. The Blood Reliqurary was a theme item for a BLOOD BANK Charity Event. If you're not even going to investigate or bother with facts and just go on by hearsay and make up you decisions on one-sided stories, then by all means... troll on.  At least the rest of the gamers can see for themselves now.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

What does that change?
At all?
You just repeated what you said before ignoring what I said.

He sold his blood and people wanted it.
How does pointing this out make us trolls?

Actually don't bother - you are one of the cult and just repeating your nonsense yet again won't change anything.

Seriously? Can you read? At all?
You didn't look at the link... you chose to ignore.  You choose to troll as well.
People sell their blood to blood banks all the time... you saying everyone that sells their blood to blood banks are bad?  This was a series of blood themed items for a Blood Bank charity.  What part of that does not sink into your contempt for this game?

You were the one that posted "Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community" as if that was a bad thing? Then you tried to say it was a "cult like behavior".  Guess all those "cultists" are going around saving lives everyday with the blood they've given in blood drives. Silly cultists...

YashaX

I know the blood thing was weird, but ignoring that why has the game been so poorly received? 

Vrika

Brugas said:

Dakeru said:

Brugas said:

Dakeru said:

Brugas said:

Albatroes said:

Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community. Nuff said.

And?  It was part of a huge bundle of goods and charity event for a Blood Bank.  Silly trolls and their negativity.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

When you sell your blood and people actually buy it then that speaks for a major case of cult like behavior.

You defending it by saying it was a normal item inside a bundle and calling us trolls speaks for the nature of this game's community.

Not exactly an environment most of us would want to join.

Ahhh no it doesn't but I bet you didn't even look at the link. The Blood Reliqurary was a theme item for a BLOOD BANK Charity Event. If you're not even going to investigate or bother with facts and just go on by hearsay and make up you decisions on one-sided stories, then by all means... troll on.  At least the rest of the gamers can see for themselves now.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

What does that change?
At all?
You just repeated what you said before ignoring what I said.

He sold his blood and people wanted it.
How does pointing this out make us trolls?

Actually don't bother - you are one of the cult and just repeating your nonsense yet again won't change anything.

Seriously? Can you read? At all?
You didn't look at the link... you chose to ignore.  You choose to troll as well.
People sell their blood to blood banks all the time... you saying everyone that sells their blood to blood banks are bad?  This was a series of blood themed items for a Blood Bank charity.  What part of that does not sink into your contempt for this game?

You were the one that posted "Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community" as if that was a bad thing? Then you tried to say it was a "cult like behavior".  Guess all those "cultists" are going around saving lives everyday with the blood they've given in blood drives. Silly cultists...

1. Using blood for medical purposes is very different from using blood as some sort of decorative item or collectible item

2. The price of blood after you deduct the sum donated to charity was still thousands of dollars. It was not only a charity event, it was also an event where Richard Garriott made thousands of dollars profit for each sale of his blood, and his supporters were buying because they thought his blood is worth that much.

Vrika

YashaX said:

I know the blood thing was weird, but ignoring that why has the game been so poorly received? 

It's a bad game.

Kyleran

Vrika said:

Brugas said:

Dakeru said:

Brugas said:

Dakeru said:

Brugas said:

Albatroes said:

Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community. Nuff said.

And?  It was part of a huge bundle of goods and charity event for a Blood Bank.  Silly trolls and their negativity.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

When you sell your blood and people actually buy it then that speaks for a major case of cult like behavior.

You defending it by saying it was a normal item inside a bundle and calling us trolls speaks for the nature of this game's community.

Not exactly an environment most of us would want to join.

Ahhh no it doesn't but I bet you didn't even look at the link. The Blood Reliqurary was a theme item for a BLOOD BANK Charity Event. If you're not even going to investigate or bother with facts and just go on by hearsay and make up you decisions on one-sided stories, then by all means... troll on.  At least the rest of the gamers can see for themselves now.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Lord_British_Blood_Reliquary_Bundle

What does that change?
At all?
You just repeated what you said before ignoring what I said.

He sold his blood and people wanted it.
How does pointing this out make us trolls?

Actually don't bother - you are one of the cult and just repeating your nonsense yet again won't change anything.

Seriously? Can you read? At all?
You didn't look at the link... you chose to ignore.  You choose to troll as well.
People sell their blood to blood banks all the time... you saying everyone that sells their blood to blood banks are bad?  This was a series of blood themed items for a Blood Bank charity.  What part of that does not sink into your contempt for this game?

You were the one that posted "Dude literally sold his blood for money to the community" as if that was a bad thing? Then you tried to say it was a "cult like behavior".  Guess all those "cultists" are going around saving lives everyday with the blood they've given in blood drives. Silly cultists...

1. Using blood for medical purposes is very different from using blood as some sort of decorative item or collectible item

2. The price of blood after you deduct the sum donated to charity was still thousands of dollars. It was not only a charity event, it was also an event where Richard Garriott made thousands of dollars profit for each sale of his blood, and his supporters were buying because they thought his blood is worth that much.

I agree,  its disingenuous to paint this as any sort of charity event,  it was clearly a for profit venture, with a donation angle to make it seem less weird.

I "donate" blood regularly (heading towards 9 gallons) and have never been paid for it.  I realize there are "for pay" centers, but that just seems like bad form to me.