There's little to no true roleplaying possible in FFA full loot MMOs because most players don't give a shit about it, they are just there to kill other players.
Unless by roleplaying, you mean pretending being a serial killer of course.
Everyone has a choice. There is no requirement to kill everyone you see. I've been playing a protectors of newbs type role in these games for many, many years. I've met plenty of other people who do the same as well as a very large number of veterans who are focused on wars with other powerful groups and have no desire to steal your copper coins and moldy bread.
Honestly people who hang around starter areas looking to gank newbs are a minority of players. The fact you use them to characterize the entire Open World PvP community conveys a certain level of ignorance or intentional hyperbole.
For instance in Life is Feudal I've randomly encountered 20-30 other players at this point. Most of them went on their merry way. 5 of them gave me stuff. 2 of them attacked me.
There's little to no true roleplaying possible in FFA full loot MMOs because most players don't give a shit about it, they are just there to kill other players.
Unless by roleplaying, you mean pretending being a serial killer of course.
I think it is possible as I have heard of servers where guilds have been doing RP on open PvP worlds. It was a big thing on AoC, among others. But that's not full loot, I have never heard of roleplaying guilds on full or partial loot servers. Unless you count EVE?
Outside of those guilds though lets be honest, its dog eat dog and the idea there is roleplaying is laughable.
There's little to no true roleplaying possible in FFA full loot MMOs because most players don't give a shit about it, they are just there to kill other players.
Unless by roleplaying, you mean pretending being a serial killer of course.
I think it is possible as I have heard of servers where guilds have been doing RP on open PvP worlds. It was a big thing on AoC, among others. But that's not full loot, I have never heard of roleplaying guilds on full or partial loot servers. Unless you count EVE?
Outside of those guilds though lets be honest, its dog eat dog and the idea there is roleplaying is laughable.
It sort of depends on the type of roleplayer you are. I'm not the type who goes around talking to everyone in character but if someone comes up and attempt to engage me in an in-character discussion I play along.
However I always have a sense of who my guild is, who my characters are, and what role they play in the greater world of the game. That's more RP than the vast majority of gamers involve themselves in. Let's be honest, most WoW clone players are just power leveling through content or seeking that next piece of gear. Roleplay is rare in any MMO these days.
There's little to no true roleplaying possible in FFA full loot MMOs because most players don't give a shit about it, they are just there to kill other players.
Unless by roleplaying, you mean pretending being a serial killer of course.
I think it is possible as I have heard of servers where guilds have been doing RP on open PvP worlds. It was a big thing on AoC, among others. But that's not full loot, I have never heard of roleplaying guilds on full or partial loot servers. Unless you count EVE?
Outside of those guilds though lets be honest, its dog eat dog and the idea there is roleplaying is laughable.
It sort of depends on the type of roleplayer you are. I'm not the type who goes around talking to everyone in character but if someone comes up and attempt to engage me in an in-character discussion I play along.
However I always have a sense of who my guild is, who my characters are, and what role they play in the greater world of the game. That's more RP than the vast majority of gamers involve themselves in. Let's be honest, most WoW clone players are just power leveling through content or seeking that next piece of gear. Roleplay is rare in any MMO these days.
If you think it was different before WoW, you're misguided. It was just the same in UO.
The "human" factor has also always been very low. By human, I mean, there's a real person behind the keyboard. Outside of their little circle of friends called "guild", very few care enough to not be assholes. That was true in UO, AC1, etc... WoW too.
I'm not blaming WoW. What I'm saying is you are acting like the majority of players not engaging in roleplay and just killing each other sets them apart from PVE games in terms of PVE games being more roleplay oriented.
It simply isn't true. In PvP games most players are focused on competition. In PvE games most players are focused on getting that next piece of gear. Neither are focused on roleplay. In PvE games there are those who actually read the story and view their leveling as a hero's arc. In PvP games there are those focused on immersion and being an actor in the story the player's of that game write.
For instance even Goonswarm who have a lot of bad actors in their rank and would probably laugh you out if you said you are a "roleplayer" are known for making propaganda:
That absolutely comes across as a form of roleplay to me. They are identifying themselves in the world, creating an image, a name.
Personally I'm not a fan of what they represent. As an enemy they feel so much more real than some scripted NPC faction the devs came up with. They take ground, they lose ground. People rise and fall among their ranks. You can have real conversations and debates with them.
That's the type of content that immerses me in a game, makes it feel real, makes it feel like I'm actually playing a role.
I'll take that kind of roleplay over killing some boss that everyone else and their dog has killed any day. To me the type wars I fight in these games is the truest roleplay to be found in any MMOs.
There's little to no true roleplaying possible in FFA full loot MMOs because most players don't give a shit about it, they are just there to kill other players.
Unless by roleplaying, you mean pretending being a serial killer of course.
I think it is possible as I have heard of servers where guilds have been doing RP on open PvP worlds. It was a big thing on AoC, among others. But that's not full loot, I have never heard of roleplaying guilds on full or partial loot servers. Unless you count EVE?
Outside of those guilds though lets be honest, its dog eat dog and the idea there is roleplaying is laughable.
It sort of depends on the type of roleplayer you are. I'm not the type who goes around talking to everyone in character but if someone comes up and attempt to engage me in an in-character discussion I play along.
However I always have a sense of who my guild is, who my characters are, and what role they play in the greater world of the game. That's more RP than the vast majority of gamers involve themselves in. Let's be honest, most WoW clone players are just power leveling through content or seeking that next piece of gear. Roleplay is rare in any MMO these days.
If you think it was different before WoW, you're misguided. It was just the same in UO.
The "human" factor has also always been very low. By human, I mean, there's a real person behind the keyboard. Outside of their little circle of friends called "guild", very few care enough to not be assholes. That was true in UO, AC1, etc... WoW too.
Your experience was/is much different than mine , ive been playing UO since launch to present , and there were/are many extreme RP guilds in that game (shout out to the The Brotherhood , Hail,*Scorch bows deeply* Dainty and Striker ..)
ANd ill also add some of the best folks i have met in UO were perfect strangers who stopped to help out ..
You seem to have had a really bad experience there or with another pvp game , This could be just ya know, be a you thing , Many people have really enjoyed that type of gameplay over the years and have a much different outlook towards it and the pvp in it , Possibly you just dont have the stomach for it , And there is nothing wrong with that , but you are very bitter and seem nearly wounded from it (i would just stay away from that type of game) , Thats why they make very casual games like ESO and GW2 for folks to play ..
But none of that makes the folks who like this gameplay Sociopaths , i know of reds who have RPed there entire time in UO , And no i have no red toons , Of course there will be random ganking in any game with a ruleset like UOs but , some of us like the risk/reward , the danger , for some its fun ..
In PvP games most players are focused on competition. In PvE games most players are focused on getting that next piece of gear.
In FFA PvP games, the roleplaying is mostly limited to:
- "Dang, that guy is of the same level or higher than me, let's avoid him".
or
- "Cool, I'm higher level than that guy, let's gank him while he fights a mob to be sure".
or
- "Cool, I'm much higher level than that guy, let's just one hit him for fun and loot his crap".
or
- "That guy is alone, we are three, let's gank him and loot him dry just because we can".
etc...
Yeah, I'm sure that's more RP than getting the next piece of gear.
Other than the extreme power gap which I've been bashing consistently for my entire time on these boards, you think a real war would go any differently?
Colonial Guerillas: "Hey that British convoy has 5 guards and there are 15 of us. Let's kill them and take their stuff."
Colonial Guerillas: "Hey that's an entire regiment of soldiers, they would slaughter us. Let's get out of here."
These decisions are realistic and therefore immersive. For me roleplay is about immersion.
There's little to no true roleplaying possible in FFA full loot MMOs because most players don't give a shit about it, they are just there to kill other players.
Unless by roleplaying, you mean pretending being a serial killer of course.
I think it is possible as I have heard of servers where guilds have been doing RP on open PvP worlds. It was a big thing on AoC, among others. But that's not full loot, I have never heard of roleplaying guilds on full or partial loot servers. Unless you count EVE?
Outside of those guilds though lets be honest, its dog eat dog and the idea there is roleplaying is laughable.
It sort of depends on the type of roleplayer you are. I'm not the type who goes around talking to everyone in character but if someone comes up and attempt to engage me in an in-character discussion I play along.
However I always have a sense of who my guild is, who my characters are, and what role they play in the greater world of the game. That's more RP than the vast majority of gamers involve themselves in. Let's be honest, most WoW clone players are just power leveling through content or seeking that next piece of gear. Roleplay is rare in any MMO these days.
If you think it was different before WoW, you're misguided. It was just the same in UO.
The "human" factor has also always been very low. By human, I mean, there's a real person behind the keyboard. Outside of their little circle of friends called "guild", very few care enough to not be assholes. That was true in UO, AC1, etc... WoW too.
I think it was a little different. Most of the UO players in beta / alpha and early release were setting up guilds etc. based around pretty strong role-playing themes. Early adopters of that game were more role-play heavy than Meridian for example. I think it was the Ultima thing. Underneath it was a lot of meta gaming of course but I see zero attempts at role playing.
I think the difference was the need to interact then. maybe it was easier to "role play" a human as well, especially when there was a needed sense of community with open PvP.
While I don't think it was stellar. . I still think there was a lot more.
I should point out that roleplaying has taken a dive in MMOs right across the board. So forgive me when I express incredibility that some how it is alive and well on full loot or indeed open world pvp servers.
In PvP games most players are focused on competition. In PvE games most players are focused on getting that next piece of gear.
In FFA PvP games, the roleplaying is mostly limited to:
- "Dang, that guy is of the same level or higher than me, let's avoid him".
or
- "Cool, I'm higher level than that guy, let's gank him while he fights a mob to be sure".
or
- "Cool, I'm much higher level than that guy, let's just one hit him for fun and loot his crap".
or
- "That guy is alone, we are three, let's gank him and loot him dry just because we can".
etc...
Yeah, I'm sure that's more RP than getting the next piece of gear.
Other than the extreme power gap which I've been bashing consistently for my entire time on these boards, you think a real war would go any differently?
Colonial Guerillas: "Hey that British convoy has 5 guards and there are 15 of us. Let's kill them and take their stuff."
Colonial Guerillas: "Hey that's an entire regiment of soldiers, they would slaughter us. Let's get out of here."
These decisions are realistic and therefore immersive. For me roleplay is about immersion.
FFA PvP in a MMORPG is nothing like a "real war".
What would be closest to a "real war" would be the PvP parts of games like ESO, DAoC, GW2, or hell, even the PvP in WoW, all games with indeed factions at war.
FFA PvP is just anarchy. Players kill their neighbors just because they can. Gank lowbies just because they can. Kill their own allies just because they can.
FFA PvP is not war, is an anarchy simulator invaded by serial killers. And all FFA PvP games ended like that.
Yes because the constant unmoving battle lines of WoW and the way people throw themselves headlong into the enemy knowing they will die because death is meaningless is very reflective of real war.
Your perception is stained by the fact it's quite apparent you've never made it anywhere in an FFA PvP game. Yes, gankers like to hang around as a welcoming committee where the newbs are in Open World PvP games. Just like how the lowest level PvP zones in WoW are frequently camped by high levels of the opposing faction. And you can say "Oh well I can call on the high levels of my faction to come help." Yes, and you can call on people like me who love to hunt griefers in PvP games. No difference there. But that's not even the point.
There is an entire game beyond that. And that game revolves primarily around guild politics and alliance vs. alliance wars. The people camping newb zones are bottom feeders. They're usually only slightly better that the newbs the prey on themselves or veterans so unskilled its the only fights they can win. Anybody who is anyone is out fighting against competing guilds over territory and resources. They don't care about anything a low level has to offer.
You never got into real PvP because you never made it past the shock of getting initially ganked apparently. That doesn't mean real PvP doesn't take place.
There are 3 decent active full-loot games going on right now... Darkfall (New Dawn or Rise of Agon... not sure how active the latter is but DND was just launched 2 months ago), Albion, and Conan Exiles.
Official Conan Exiles launch happens May but you can play it now. Its fun designing your home and breaking into other people's places...
Darkfall has pretty much everything that Conan doesn't have besides the newer graphics and animations.
Albion is cartoony so I never really gave it a shot. Its active though and many people like it.
All great fun games!!! There is probably more than that but nothing else comes to mind at the moment, they are all dead probably... maybe Mortal Online is still going, not sure?
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
going into debat with the regular 20k posters on mmorg.com you really think you can accomplish anything?
you got forum warriors and you got gamers.
As for the op : i suggest you look @ rise of agon.. if your a heavy pvp'er. Upcoming changes will boost population alot.. and darkfall will have meaning again
There are 3 decent active full-loot games going on right now... Darkfall (New Dawn or Rise of Agon... not sure how active the latter is but DND was just launched 2 months ago), Albion, and Conan Exiles.
Official Conan Exiles launch happens May but you can play it now. Its fun designing your home and breaking into other people's places...
Darkfall has pretty much everything that Conan doesn't have besides the newer graphics and animations.
Albion is cartoony so I never really gave it a shot. Its active though and many people like it.
All great fun games!!! There is probably more than that but nothing else comes to mind at the moment, they are all dead probably... maybe Mortal Online is still going, not sure?
Well there you go three recommendations from Sid Vicious, you can't do better than that.
I know a couple of people who are playing Conan Exiles and love it, but doubt I will join. As I said though there is demand and players who want this have a place to go.
I agree with @Jean-Luc_Picard because when I started playing online MMORPGs I tried Lineage and one other game. I came away with a very bad impression of PvP games. That impression has never gone away and I doubt it ever will.
I did however enjoy it finally in WoW battlegrounds like Arathi Basin. I think in my opinion FFA is something people enjoy but not a lot of people and it would be hard to persuade people to try it after bad experiences.
There are 3 decent active full-loot games going on right now... Darkfall (New Dawn or Rise of Agon... not sure how active the latter is but DND was just launched 2 months ago), Albion, and Conan Exiles.
Official Conan Exiles launch happens May but you can play it now. Its fun designing your home and breaking into other people's places...
Darkfall has pretty much everything that Conan doesn't have besides the newer graphics and animations.
Albion is cartoony so I never really gave it a shot. Its active though and many people like it.
All great fun games!!! There is probably more than that but nothing else comes to mind at the moment, they are all dead probably... maybe Mortal Online is still going, not sure?
You should try Vendetta Online, which I mentioned back on page 3:
At around 20 seconds in, you can see me pick up a cargo widget dropped by another pilot. Voila: full loot.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
In PvP games most players are focused on competition. In PvE games most players are focused on getting that next piece of gear.
In FFA PvP games, the roleplaying is mostly limited to:
- "Dang, that guy is of the same level or higher than me, let's avoid him".
or
- "Cool, I'm higher level than that guy, let's gank him while he fights a mob to be sure".
or
- "Cool, I'm much higher level than that guy, let's just one hit him for fun and loot his crap".
or
- "That guy is alone, we are three, let's gank him and loot him dry just because we can".
etc...
Yeah, I'm sure that's more RP than getting the next piece of gear.
Other than the extreme power gap which I've been bashing consistently for my entire time on these boards, you think a real war would go any differently?
You say that, but the games you are promoting as good (like Darkfall, ArcheAge, Life is feudal etc) have massive power gaps and are all about the pve grind.
The mechanics of those sort of games revolve around, encourage, and are made for pve grinders who prefer to gank/kill undergeared/leveled players. There may be a few people like yourself that try to "protect" newer players, but this doesn't magically change the nature of the game itself.
In PvP games most players are focused on competition. In PvE games most players are focused on getting that next piece of gear.
In FFA PvP games, the roleplaying is mostly limited to:
- "Dang, that guy is of the same level or higher than me, let's avoid him".
or
- "Cool, I'm higher level than that guy, let's gank him while he fights a mob to be sure".
or
- "Cool, I'm much higher level than that guy, let's just one hit him for fun and loot his crap".
or
- "That guy is alone, we are three, let's gank him and loot him dry just because we can".
etc...
Yeah, I'm sure that's more RP than getting the next piece of gear.
Other than the extreme power gap which I've been bashing consistently for my entire time on these boards, you think a real war would go any differently?
You say that, but the games you are promoting as good (like Darkfall, ArcheAge, Life is feudal etc) have massive power gaps and are all about the pve grind.
The mechanics of those sort of games revolve around, encourage, and are made for pve grinders who prefer to gank/kill undergeared/leveled players. There may be a few people like yourself that try to "protect" newer players, but this doesn't magically change the nature of the game itself.
I did notice that my idea that all players be scaled to the same level for PvP in an open world environment was not exactly greeted with universal acclaim.
There are 3 decent active full-loot games going on right now... Darkfall (New Dawn or Rise of Agon... not sure how active the latter is but DND was just launched 2 months ago), Albion, and Conan Exiles.
Official Conan Exiles launch happens May but you can play it now. Its fun designing your home and breaking into other people's places...
Darkfall has pretty much everything that Conan doesn't have besides the newer graphics and animations.
Albion is cartoony so I never really gave it a shot. Its active though and many people like it.
All great fun games!!! There is probably more than that but nothing else comes to mind at the moment, they are all dead probably... maybe Mortal Online is still going, not sure?
Darkfall is hardly active. Either version.
Mortal has a few hundred players left around, same old vets for the most part.
Albion and Conan are leaps and bounds ahead of the previous 2 mentioned games as far as population. Albion is okay, I played for a bit but at the time was just not for me, and Conan exiles turned me off with the small sized servers.
In PvP games most players are focused on competition. In PvE games most players are focused on getting that next piece of gear.
In FFA PvP games, the roleplaying is mostly limited to:
- "Dang, that guy is of the same level or higher than me, let's avoid him".
or
- "Cool, I'm higher level than that guy, let's gank him while he fights a mob to be sure".
or
- "Cool, I'm much higher level than that guy, let's just one hit him for fun and loot his crap".
or
- "That guy is alone, we are three, let's gank him and loot him dry just because we can".
etc...
Yeah, I'm sure that's more RP than getting the next piece of gear.
Other than the extreme power gap which I've been bashing consistently for my entire time on these boards, you think a real war would go any differently?
You say that, but the games you are promoting as good (like Darkfall, ArcheAge, Life is feudal etc) have massive power gaps and are all about the pve grind.
The mechanics of those sort of games revolve around, encourage, and are made for pve grinders who prefer to gank/kill undergeared/leveled players. There may be a few people like yourself that try to "protect" newer players, but this doesn't magically change the nature of the game itself.
Because there simply isn't a game in today's MMO market committed to the idea of low or no powergap, however, if there were one it would be Life is Feudal. Superior player skill and tactics can allow you to overtake a stronger/better equipped player more than is possible in an MMO I've seen before it, and the grind time to near full-effectiveness for a single character is very short.
@Jean-Luc_Picard - I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming your were ignorant rather than intentionally spreading falsehoods. The meat of Open World PvP games has always been guild politics. The people running around ganking newbs comprise like 5% of the playerbase at most. The fact you continually attack these games as having no challenge and being for sociopaths when its primarily for people who just enjoy meaningful conflicts with other powerful groups makes you a demagogue and frankly a bit of a jerk if you're aware of how these games are played.
Because personally when I run around killing people who bully newbs and then I'm lumped in with sociopaths and told I enjoy no skill games because I enjoy FFA PVP my reaction is kind of "Wow **** off you ****head."
Now if what you're trying to say is that groups in history didn't tend to murder members of other group well... there is a reason most nations are racially and culturally homogenous. It's because historically they killed everyone who wasn't. Heck that's still going on in some 3rd world nations in 2018.
In the name of all who does not suck please do not promote dumb games with 70 players on servers like Ark, Dark and Light and Conan Exiles. While i do love full loot pvp those are games where you lose your progress when you go to sleep. When you go to sleep your shit is there and it will be wiped to the ground by a dude playing on the other side of the world who is on prime time while you are sleeping. 99% of pvp in survival games = offline raiding.
In PvP games most players are focused on competition. In PvE games most players are focused on getting that next piece of gear.
In FFA PvP games, the roleplaying is mostly limited to:
- "Dang, that guy is of the same level or higher than me, let's avoid him".
or
- "Cool, I'm higher level than that guy, let's gank him while he fights a mob to be sure".
or
- "Cool, I'm much higher level than that guy, let's just one hit him for fun and loot his crap".
or
- "That guy is alone, we are three, let's gank him and loot him dry just because we can".
etc...
Yeah, I'm sure that's more RP than getting the next piece of gear.
Other than the extreme power gap which I've been bashing consistently for my entire time on these boards, you think a real war would go any differently?
You say that, but the games you are promoting as good (like Darkfall, ArcheAge, Life is feudal etc) have massive power gaps and are all about the pve grind.
The mechanics of those sort of games revolve around, encourage, and are made for pve grinders who prefer to gank/kill undergeared/leveled players. There may be a few people like yourself that try to "protect" newer players, but this doesn't magically change the nature of the game itself.
Darkfall New Dawn is not all about the PVE grind anymore... the offline meditation skill gain is almost faster than grinding all day every day. They definitely fixed it for casual players. Just need to stay subscribed and keep meditation going to reach the endgame. I haven't grind more than an hour a day (or 7 hours a week) and that is only to keep my meditation up. Sure I have been a little bit behind but I started the game late and I never really took to grinding in that game ever.
There are 3 decent active full-loot games going on right now... Darkfall (New Dawn or Rise of Agon... not sure how active the latter is but DND was just launched 2 months ago), Albion, and Conan Exiles.
Official Conan Exiles launch happens May but you can play it now. Its fun designing your home and breaking into other people's places...
Darkfall has pretty much everything that Conan doesn't have besides the newer graphics and animations.
Albion is cartoony so I never really gave it a shot. Its active though and many people like it.
All great fun games!!! There is probably more than that but nothing else comes to mind at the moment, they are all dead probably... maybe Mortal Online is still going, not sure?
Darkfall is hardly active. Either version.
Mortal has a few hundred players left around, same old vets for the most part.
Albion and Conan are leaps and bounds ahead of the previous 2 mentioned games as far as population. Albion is okay, I played for a bit but at the time was just not for me, and Conan exiles turned me off with the small sized servers.
I think both games have over a few hundred players easily... my guess for sub count is around 2k for New Dawn and 1k for Rise of Agon. The world is huge so the numbers are very deceiving.
My clan right now is considered small compared to the others and usually has a dozen or more people that play every day. They don't play all day and well the world is so big you are pretty much NEVER going to run into them... but if you know where to go you can ALWAYS find people online to fight (maybe not group with all hours of the day though...).
@Jean-Luc_Picard Is there anything at all a FFA PVP game could ever do to get you to play it? You always seem to have a lot more to say about them than people who have played them much more.
There are 3 decent active full-loot games going on right now...
You should try Vendetta Online, which I mentioned back on page 3:
At around 20 seconds in, you can see me pick up a cargo widget dropped by another pilot. Voila: full loot.
Think I will check that out, thanks! Want to try something fresh that is not cartoony like Albion.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Oops I forgot to mention Rust... think that game is active now too.. so what is that now?
Darkfall Rise of Agon, Darkfall New Dawn, Albion Online, Mortal Online, Conan Exiles, RUST, Vandetta Online, EVE.
That is actually quite a bit to choose from and from what I hear they are all good games, only have two yet to try on that list.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Because personally when I run around killing people who bully newbs and then I'm lumped in with sociopaths and told I enjoy no skill games because I enjoy FFA PVP my reaction is kind of "Wow **** off you ****head."
I never said that, and you know it. I was also an anti-PK. You attack a noob, I defend the noob. That's a peacekeeper, not a psy (or socio) path. You guys are really bad today. Think twice before posting.
Since you didn't precise "MMO" in the title (albeit in your text afterwards), I will suggest Fortnite: Battle Royale. Fun PvP, no grind, and no gear/level gap crap, only skill and map knowledge.
And it's free, so you risk nothing in trying it.
Oh, and I forgot to mention... it's full loot AND perma death. Good luck to the badasses
I think you need mainly skill for that game so doubt anyone interested in games like darkfall will be that interested.
Immediately after a post where I mentioned playing Darkfall. You marked this post as insightful.
Oh, and I forgot to mention... it's full loot AND perma death. Good luck to the badasses
I think you need mainly skill for that game so doubt anyone interested in games like darkfall will be that interested.
I cannot name a single game in the entire MMO sphere that takes more skill than the original Darkfall. To the point of it's detriment, it's manual aim game with over 100 abilities to manage. It's the game where not only did I start using a proper gaming mouse but I started programing macros because they were a near requirement to accomplish certain tasks efficiently.
Absolutely skill grinding was a factor and it heavily detracted from the skill based aspects of the game but if you're telling me Darkfall didn't take skill, you clearly are absolutely ignorant of the game and really should keep your uninformed and frankly useless opinion to yourself.
Yes, yes, so much skill to park your toon in front of a tree and farm it while doing something else; so much skill to go and kill players afk farming resources; so much skill to kill undeargeared/leveled players.
Games like Darkfall represent the epitome of unskilled pvp, built for gamers that have a pve mindset but want to pretend to be pvpers. Probably the reason why most of them are dead.
You agreed with this post.
So forgive me if the impression I'm getting is that you feel that all people who enjoy Open World PvP just want a game that allows them to bully newbs. Because by your tone and the posts you are agreeing with, you seem to basically be calling all people who play Open World PvP games trash players who just want skill disparity and not giving any credit to the fact some of us want to fight other powerful PvP guilds over the control of territory, as is the basis and primary content for most of these games.
Your strong insinuation is that if you don't want to play the currently existing games that start people on a level playing field it's because you want that power disparity, and does not account at all for the fact there are features like persistence and territorial control missing from every game you've mentioned.
You have yet to acknowledge that there are any decent parts to this games, or that there are any good people playing this games.
And that's the reason I'm coming back against you two so strong.
Yes, there are crapheads in these games. But there are levels of immersion simply not found anywhere else and a lot of us play these games for that very reason. Your refusal to acknowledge this makes you come off as a total demagogue, and someone who is belittling everyone who plays these games regardless of if they are actually a griefer or not.
As an anti-griefer who has probably been the most consistent voice for lowering power disparity on these boards (I mean, look at my signature I've had since nearly day one on these forums) your tone is seriously pissing me off. I should be allowed to like the good parts of these games without it being made out like I'm defending the parts of these games I hate the most.
Eh. You appear to be falling back now that you've been called out from my perspective. But I don't really think there has been any productive discourse in this conversation.
I'll just reassert. There are a lot more that Open World PvP games offer than the weak alternatives like GW2 and ESO you've been suggesting. WoW clones and MOBAs are not alternatives to sandbox MMOs. And that "a lot more" are not simply features that appeal to sociopaths and people who love power disparity.
Ironically. Suggesting such titles is the exact thing griefers do to people who want these games to be made to appeal to a broader audience.
These games offer detailed worlds you can truly immerse yourselves in, in a way the carebear quest grinders and 1 and done match games cannot. The primary drive to play these games for the majority of their enthusiasts are:
1. Competition 2. Immersion
Sociopaths make up a tiny but loud minority of the population.
Oh, and I forgot to mention... it's full loot AND perma death. Good luck to the badasses
I think you need mainly skill for that game so doubt anyone interested in games like darkfall will be that interested.
I cannot name a single game in the entire MMO sphere that takes more skill than the original Darkfall. To the point of it's detriment, it's manual aim game with over 100 abilities to manage. It's the game where not only did I start using a proper gaming mouse but I started programing macros because they were a near requirement to accomplish certain tasks efficiently.
Absolutely skill grinding was a factor and it heavily detracted from the skill based aspects of the game but if you're telling me Darkfall didn't take skill, you clearly are absolutely ignorant of the game and really should keep your uninformed and frankly useless opinion to yourself.
Yes, yes, so much skill to park your toon in front of a tree and farm it while doing something else; so much skill to go and kill players afk farming resources; so much skill to kill undeargeared/leveled players.
Games like Darkfall represent the epitome of unskilled pvp, built for gamers that have a pve mindset but want to pretend to be pvpers. Probably the reason why most of them are dead.
I thought both Darkfalls had the highest skill ceiling combat of any MMO I've played, free aim etc. I liked DFUW quite a bit. Too bad Darkfall players all liked DF1 better.
The bad thing about full loot was that every time you got killed there went two hours of grinding a new set of armor/weapons. I did enjoy everything except once in a while losing your city. I felt like DFUW was more about amassing supplies to withstand a siege or pay for allies in an upcoming siege. It was quite intense, when you have your home city on the line, counting on paid "allies" or people we thought were allies. It was definitely not a game for the arena no consequences PvP crowd. I don't think there will ever be anything else like it again (when these two fail).
I actually liked DFUW, as I don't really love PvP but I liked helping the clan farm supplies through PvE and crafting. The PvP in the sieges and the boat battles on the water. Also having a house in the non instanced open world was a blast. People could break down your door with mini siege materials, but most wouldn't know if you were in there and wouldn't bother.
Comments
Honestly people who hang around starter areas looking to gank newbs are a minority of players. The fact you use them to characterize the entire Open World PvP community conveys a certain level of ignorance or intentional hyperbole.
For instance in Life is Feudal I've randomly encountered 20-30 other players at this point. Most of them went on their merry way. 5 of them gave me stuff. 2 of them attacked me.
I think it is possible as I have heard of servers where guilds have been doing RP on open PvP worlds. It was a big thing on AoC, among others. But that's not full loot, I have never heard of roleplaying guilds on full or partial loot servers. Unless you count EVE?
Outside of those guilds though lets be honest, its dog eat dog and the idea there is roleplaying is laughable.
However I always have a sense of who my guild is, who my characters are, and what role they play in the greater world of the game. That's more RP than the vast majority of gamers involve themselves in. Let's be honest, most WoW clone players are just power leveling through content or seeking that next piece of gear. Roleplay is rare in any MMO these days.
It simply isn't true. In PvP games most players are focused on competition. In PvE games most players are focused on getting that next piece of gear. Neither are focused on roleplay. In PvE games there are those who actually read the story and view their leveling as a hero's arc. In PvP games there are those focused on immersion and being an actor in the story the player's of that game write.
For instance even Goonswarm who have a lot of bad actors in their rank and would probably laugh you out if you said you are a "roleplayer" are known for making propaganda:
That absolutely comes across as a form of roleplay to me. They are identifying themselves in the world, creating an image, a name.
Personally I'm not a fan of what they represent. As an enemy they feel so much more real than some scripted NPC faction the devs came up with. They take ground, they lose ground. People rise and fall among their ranks. You can have real conversations and debates with them.
That's the type of content that immerses me in a game, makes it feel real, makes it feel like I'm actually playing a role.
I'll take that kind of roleplay over killing some boss that everyone else and their dog has killed any day. To me the type wars I fight in these games is the truest roleplay to be found in any MMOs.
ANd ill also add some of the best folks i have met in UO were perfect strangers who stopped to help out ..
You seem to have had a really bad experience there or with another pvp game , This could be just ya know, be a you thing , Many people have really enjoyed that type of gameplay over the years and have a much different outlook towards it and the pvp in it , Possibly you just dont have the stomach for it , And there is nothing wrong with that , but you are very bitter and seem nearly wounded from it (i would just stay away from that type of game) , Thats why they make very casual games like ESO and GW2 for folks to play ..
But none of that makes the folks who like this gameplay Sociopaths , i know of reds who have RPed there entire time in UO , And no i have no red toons , Of course there will be random ganking in any game with a ruleset like UOs but , some of us like the risk/reward , the danger , for some its fun ..
Colonial Guerillas: "Hey that British convoy has 5 guards and there are 15 of us. Let's kill them and take their stuff."
Colonial Guerillas: "Hey that's an entire regiment of soldiers, they would slaughter us. Let's get out of here."
These decisions are realistic and therefore immersive. For me roleplay is about immersion.
I think the difference was the need to interact then. maybe it was easier to "role play" a human as well, especially when there was a needed sense of community with open PvP.
While I don't think it was stellar. . I still think there was a lot more.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Your perception is stained by the fact it's quite apparent you've never made it anywhere in an FFA PvP game. Yes, gankers like to hang around as a welcoming committee where the newbs are in Open World PvP games. Just like how the lowest level PvP zones in WoW are frequently camped by high levels of the opposing faction. And you can say "Oh well I can call on the high levels of my faction to come help." Yes, and you can call on people like me who love to hunt griefers in PvP games. No difference there. But that's not even the point.
There is an entire game beyond that. And that game revolves primarily around guild politics and alliance vs. alliance wars. The people camping newb zones are bottom feeders. They're usually only slightly better that the newbs the prey on themselves or veterans so unskilled its the only fights they can win. Anybody who is anyone is out fighting against competing guilds over territory and resources. They don't care about anything a low level has to offer.
You never got into real PvP because you never made it past the shock of getting initially ganked apparently. That doesn't mean real PvP doesn't take place.
Official Conan Exiles launch happens May but you can play it now. Its fun designing your home and breaking into other people's places...
Darkfall has pretty much everything that Conan doesn't have besides the newer graphics and animations.
Albion is cartoony so I never really gave it a shot. Its active though and many people like it.
All great fun games!!! There is probably more than that but nothing else comes to mind at the moment, they are all dead probably... maybe Mortal Online is still going, not sure?
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
you got forum warriors and you got gamers.
As for the op : i suggest you look @ rise of agon.. if your a heavy pvp'er. Upcoming changes will boost population alot.. and darkfall will have meaning again
Well there you go three recommendations from Sid Vicious, you can't do better than that.
I know a couple of people who are playing Conan Exiles and love it, but doubt I will join. As I said though there is demand and players who want this have a place to go.
I did however enjoy it finally in WoW battlegrounds like Arathi Basin. I think in my opinion FFA is something people enjoy but not a lot of people and it would be hard to persuade people to try it after bad experiences.
At around 20 seconds in, you can see me pick up a cargo widget dropped by another pilot. Voila: full loot.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
The mechanics of those sort of games revolve around, encourage, and are made for pve grinders who prefer to gank/kill undergeared/leveled players. There may be a few people like yourself that try to "protect" newer players, but this doesn't magically change the nature of the game itself.
I did notice that my idea that all players be scaled to the same level for PvP in an open world environment was not exactly greeted with universal acclaim.
Mortal has a few hundred players left around, same old vets for the most part.
Albion and Conan are leaps and bounds ahead of the previous 2 mentioned games as far as population. Albion is okay, I played for a bit but at the time was just not for me, and Conan exiles turned me off with the small sized servers.
This is the system I personally would implement:
http://harbingerhideout.enjin.com/forum/m/39251331/viewthread/28681324-character-advancement-customizing-your-build
And while I have my own ideas for stronger controls against random ganking than is found in most such games:
http://harbingerhideout.enjin.com/forum/m/39251331/viewthread/28293942-open-world-pvp-risk-vs-reward-culture-system
I would submit that if you don't think Life is Feudal has meaningful controls for random ganking.... you know nothing Jon Snow:
https://lifeisfeudal.gamepedia.com/Alignment
@Jean-Luc_Picard - I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming your were ignorant rather than intentionally spreading falsehoods. The meat of Open World PvP games has always been guild politics. The people running around ganking newbs comprise like 5% of the playerbase at most. The fact you continually attack these games as having no challenge and being for sociopaths when its primarily for people who just enjoy meaningful conflicts with other powerful groups makes you a demagogue and frankly a bit of a jerk if you're aware of how these games are played.
Because personally when I run around killing people who bully newbs and then I'm lumped in with sociopaths and told I enjoy no skill games because I enjoy FFA PVP my reaction is kind of "Wow **** off you ****head."
Now if what you're trying to say is that groups in history didn't tend to murder members of other group well... there is a reason most nations are racially and culturally homogenous. It's because historically they killed everyone who wasn't. Heck that's still going on in some 3rd world nations in 2018.
I think both games have over a few hundred players easily... my guess for sub count is around 2k for New Dawn and 1k for Rise of Agon. The world is huge so the numbers are very deceiving.
My clan right now is considered small compared to the others and usually has a dozen or more people that play every day. They don't play all day and well the world is so big you are pretty much NEVER going to run into them... but if you know where to go you can ALWAYS find people online to fight (maybe not group with all hours of the day though...).
@Jean-Luc_Picard Is there anything at all a FFA PVP game could ever do to get you to play it? You always seem to have a lot more to say about them than people who have played them much more.
Think I will check that out, thanks! Want to try something fresh that is not cartoony like Albion.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Darkfall Rise of Agon, Darkfall New Dawn, Albion Online, Mortal Online, Conan Exiles, RUST, Vandetta Online, EVE.
That is actually quite a bit to choose from and from what I hear they are all good games, only have two yet to try on that list.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Immediately after a post where I mentioned playing Darkfall. You marked this post as insightful.
You agreed with this post.
So forgive me if the impression I'm getting is that you feel that all people who enjoy Open World PvP just want a game that allows them to bully newbs. Because by your tone and the posts you are agreeing with, you seem to basically be calling all people who play Open World PvP games trash players who just want skill disparity and not giving any credit to the fact some of us want to fight other powerful PvP guilds over the control of territory, as is the basis and primary content for most of these games.
Your strong insinuation is that if you don't want to play the currently existing games that start people on a level playing field it's because you want that power disparity, and does not account at all for the fact there are features like persistence and territorial control missing from every game you've mentioned.
You have yet to acknowledge that there are any decent parts to this games, or that there are any good people playing this games.
And that's the reason I'm coming back against you two so strong.
Yes, there are crapheads in these games. But there are levels of immersion simply not found anywhere else and a lot of us play these games for that very reason. Your refusal to acknowledge this makes you come off as a total demagogue, and someone who is belittling everyone who plays these games regardless of if they are actually a griefer or not.
As an anti-griefer who has probably been the most consistent voice for lowering power disparity on these boards (I mean, look at my signature I've had since nearly day one on these forums) your tone is seriously pissing me off. I should be allowed to like the good parts of these games without it being made out like I'm defending the parts of these games I hate the most.
I'll just reassert. There are a lot more that Open World PvP games offer than the weak alternatives like GW2 and ESO you've been suggesting. WoW clones and MOBAs are not alternatives to sandbox MMOs. And that "a lot more" are not simply features that appeal to sociopaths and people who love power disparity.
Ironically. Suggesting such titles is the exact thing griefers do to people who want these games to be made to appeal to a broader audience.
These games offer detailed worlds you can truly immerse yourselves in, in a way the carebear quest grinders and 1 and done match games cannot. The primary drive to play these games for the majority of their enthusiasts are:
1. Competition
2. Immersion
Sociopaths make up a tiny but loud minority of the population.
The bad thing about full loot was that every time you got killed there went two hours of grinding a new set of armor/weapons. I did enjoy everything except once in a while losing your city. I felt like DFUW was more about amassing supplies to withstand a siege or pay for allies in an upcoming siege. It was quite intense, when you have your home city on the line, counting on paid "allies" or people we thought were allies. It was definitely not a game for the arena no consequences PvP crowd. I don't think there will ever be anything else like it again (when these two fail).
I actually liked DFUW, as I don't really love PvP but I liked helping the clan farm supplies through PvE and crafting. The PvP in the sieges and the boat battles on the water. Also having a house in the non instanced open world was a blast. People could break down your door with mini siege materials, but most wouldn't know if you were in there and wouldn't bother.